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The Roswell Incident [1947]

Yes, I've been thinking about that one recently. The energy it generates comes from the minute electric charges on water droplets in the air, which become very large and significant when the water droplets form into thunderclouds. Of course the ultimate source of this electrical differential is the Sun, as it heats the stormclouds. If we could make a bank of electrical air-generators as big as a stormcloud we could produce a lot of energy, but that seems a lot of bulk for relatively little return.

Electrical air-generators have a very low power-to-volume ratio, which is the opposite of what we want normally. But they may be useful in some situations - floating in the atmosphere of Jupiter, for example.
 
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eburacum said:
Forget the Biefield-Brown effect; it is tiny, and absolutely useless as a lifting effect because the thrust-to-weight ratio is less than one unless you connect it to an external power source.

If we could find a power source that could provide fabulous amounts of power for very little mass penalty, the BBE might be useful; but if we had a power source like that, we could do a very wide range of other miracles that would make the tiny Biefield-Brown effect a triviality.
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Check out Nick Cook's book, The Hunt for Zero Point, for a detailed look at the antigravity scene in the 50s, before it all went black. It seems the Biefield Brown effect could have worked using a very high powered system but Brown never got enough backing to try it. Seems they went down the paths of the black triangles and the Bell, with no success with the latter.
 
There are lots of things that would work assuming a hypothetical 'high-powered system'. One possible example of a 'high-powered system' would be a system powered by antimatter annihilation, which would in theory provide perfect matter-to-energy conversion at any arbitrary scale. However, antimatter is very expensive to produce, and the process of antimatter creation is fantastically inefficient, so it currently isn't worth doing. On top of this, the energy released by annihilation is largely in the form of gamma rays and neutrinos, neither of which can be easily converted into useful work.

So it all remains a theory.
 
eburacum said:
There are lots of things that would work assuming a hypothetical 'high-powered system'. One possible example of a 'high-powered system' would be a system powered by antimatter annihilation, which would in theory provide perfect matter-to-energy conversion at any arbitrary scale. However, antimatter is very expensive to produce, and the process of antimatter creation is fantastically inefficient, so it currently isn't worth doing. On top of this, the energy released by annihilation is largely in the form of gamma rays and neutrinos, neither of which can be easily converted into useful work.

So it all remains a theory.
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For us, yes. For the black projects -- who knows. One little clue is that most of them seem to use theories based on ether rather than relativity theory.
 
The Roswell UFO crash is Occam’s Razor.

This situation simply is what is described by Jesse Marcel.

This UFO didn’t count on a lightening strike to disrupt their gravitational field.

“ Mother Nature “ got the humanoids.
 
charliebrown said:
The Roswell UFO crash is Occam’s Razor.

This situation simply is what is described by Jesse Marcel.

This UFO didn’t count on a lightening strike to disrupt their gravitational field.

“ Mother Nature “ got the humanoids.
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Exactly. Jesse Marcel had the courage to tell the Truth.
 
Yes, the truth that the material was not switched, and that he was shown posing with debris from a Mogul balloon. Thanks to Jesse Marcel we can dismiss the alien explanation in this case.
 
Yes, Marcel stated on camera that the material he found on the ranch 'was not of this earth'.
Luckily we have the videos of his statements.
 
Yet the photos show material which is of this earth, and he said it was the same material, so he must have been mistaken.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Pieces of alien spacecraft/secret balloon/coca-cola can* found at Roswell...!!!

*delete as appropriate

https://www.ufonut.com/anomalous-metal-alloy-found-at-roswell-crash-debris-site/
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Erm. . . maybe a bit-of-both worlds?
1691592874616.png
 
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Additionally....

As regards the Marcel photographs being staged with bogus Roswell debris and all reliant on same being so.

It comes down to this one question?

(Text copied)
Bottom line and what I have been endeavouring to isolate, seemingly comes down to one straightforward deliberation.

If the genuine Roswell debris was ever substituted, the following has to be true.

At short notice, there must have been readily available, a considerable number of fragments from a pre-used meteorological instrument, resembling a weather balloon, if not in fact actually same.

In storage, had to be all the broken beams, large and small, plus the foil-like fragments, again incorporating all the relatively tiny pieces.

Additionally, a large volume of decayed and malodorous rubber must have been retained.

In short, all of this aged material must have conveniently existed in storage.

Furthermore, all of this must have been painstakingly collected from wherever it was found, before being deemed worthy of retaining.

This is the 'debris switch' proposition.

Otherwise, it has to be accepted that the actual debris from Roswell, which Marcel had guessed must both be from a 'flying saucer' and that these were not a Soviet secret weapon, as was the primary concern at that time - only a couple of: weeks since Armold's story - and instead originated from outer space, is on display.

Given the fact Marcel, despite numerous
opportunities, never once mentioned in any interview, that the debris was swapped, at any point...

...and of course those who advocated the 'debris switch' were in desperate need for that to be the case...

This would be the factual perspective and context for a judgement call?

Which is simply what I have been trying to
establish.
(End)

Attached is a copy of the Ramey office photograph, which doesn't seem to be comparatively referenced that often.

For more background, see original post on the Facebook 'UFO Research List', which I administer and a stated offshoot from time spent here.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1100706627172357/permalink/1441933663049650/
 

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It would be absurd to keep this material on hand, since it is just junk. The material was almost certainly discarded as junk fairly soon after, since no one has been able to find any trace of it since.
 
The internal evidence from Marcel's own statements is that there was never any debris switch.

What Marcel actually said (including to Haut, who wasn't actually there at the 'press conference') was that he was photographed with some of the "less interesting" debris; the rest was outside being loaded into a plane. Haut used the phrase "not the material he had personally collected" to represent this conversation and this was interpreted by Randle and Schmitt as meaning there was a 'debris switch'. In fact there never was and this is not what Marcel claimed.

Haut made various allegations in his second, far more dramatic affidavit, but this was drafted for him by Schmitt!
 
Marcel’s expression as I interpret it to me is, oh crap I am the fall guy for General Ramey’s screw up.
 
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charliebrown said:
Nick Pope once said to just look at Marcel’s face and eyes and that tells the whole story.
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Not exactly the most trustworthy source of anything, let alone conjecture.

The actual evidence tells the whole story.

Would you be interested in addressing same?

Interesting point, CB, at this stage, did Marcel actually know his initial guess of a 'flying saucer' and of course the subsequent press release, had been dismissed and explained?

It seemingly remains unclear, whether the Irving Newton photograph was taken before, or after, the two Marcel pictures.

Irrelevant though, if Marcel, despite several opportunities, especially when being filmed, never once even alluded to himself being photographed with bogus debris and in fact, confirmed otherwise.

Another factor, which has come to mind:

Supposing:

'Original Irving Newton interview uncovered'

"So General Ramey called and said, 'Newton, get your ass over here pronto and bring some old weather balloon debris with you:.

I said, 'Yes, sir, it so happens we have a collection in storage, including rubber remnants, various bits of foil and all the small pieces of wood recovered'."

In all seriousness, if in desperate need of same and urgently, who else would Ramey have called, first of all...?
 
Conveniently these stored weather balloon remnants would also have to have been aged in exactly the way they would have been if they'd been sitting outdoors in the desert for a while. Remarkable foresight by the military, if that was the case.
 
ROSWELL: DEBRIS IN RAMEY OFFICE PHOTOS NOT IDENTICAL - IT DOES CHANGE

A cross posting - not sure if this has been picked up on before (have, of course, just noticed it myself now, having gone over this evidence countless times!).

At present, not sure what to make of it all...

Presumably, must tell us something?

Any thoughts on same?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1100706627172357/permalink/1443326352910381/
 
Looks to me like the foil has a different texture on each side - whitish on one face, silvery on the other. It would be very easy for some items of debris to become reversed during handling, thereby appearing a different colour. In short, we can't expect the material to look identical in each picture.
 
In the Marcel photograph, just underneath the pile of rubber, we can see that the debris shown there, also shifts position in the Ramey & DuBose photograph.

So... these were not taken at the exact same time?
 
eburacum said:
Looks to me like the foil has a different texture on each side - whitish on one face, silvery on the other. It would be very easy for some items of debris to become reversed during handling, thereby appearing a different colour. In short, we can't expect the material to look identical in each picture.
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It's the realisation that our debris on display is not actually exactly the same in both photographs. Things have altered.

Have to conclude the photographs were not taken in sequence, which does equate with some interpretations - I can suggest if you follow ongoing discussions on the Facebook group I administer, there is considerably more background unfolding.

Not straightforward....

Much comes down to the J Bond Johnson photographs. Initially, from what I understand, he only claimed to have taken the Ramey and DuBose photographs.

Then... it becomes quite complicated, with perhaps elaborated claims he also took the Marcel pictures.

Both Jan Aldrich and Kal Korff have just mentioned on the Facebook group that Johnson, in resultant and seemingly acrimonious developments, involving several well known individuals, threatened to sue them both!

It's Roswell; borne of Arnold, still, to this day, all about our misconstrued 'flying saucers' and in the beginning, it was written:

"I just kind of forgot it then, until I got down to Pendleton and I began looking at my map and taking measurements on it and the best calculation I could figure out, now even in spite of error, would be around 1200 miles an hour..."

Meantime.... oh... just come across another inexplicable, triangular UFO case...
 
A thought and a few questions just occurred to me:

What is the time frame between the crash and the recovery? Didn't people say they witnessed the crash and then Brazel discovered the wreckage the next day? If so, the recovered material had been on the ground for no longer than 48 hrs when the Army took it.

Or could the balloon have been down for months? And in which case why was there no effort to find it/collect it earlier if it was part of Mogul? But even if there was an effort, we can say that it is possible that the wreckage may have been there for weeks or months.

So IF the debris is a Mogul balloon that crashed the previous day then that balloon will have been in working condition until it crashed i.e. fit for flight. The rubber would have been pristine and the wooden beams in new condition. None of it would have naturally aged.
Comfortably Numb said:
In storage, had to be all the broken beams, large and small, plus the foil-like fragments, again incorporating all the relatively tiny pieces.

Additionally, a large volume of decayed and malodorous rubber must have been retained.

In short, all of this aged material must have conveniently existed in storage.
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If the debris had been on the ground for weeks or months then it would have been under the sun in the New Mexico desert all that time. The rubber would be brittle and tough, not decayed and malodorous. Malodorous comes from humidity and moisture.

So even if the wreckage was 48hrs old or 4 months old, then I'm not sure rubber in the New mexico desert would be malodorous.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
 
just a pile of crap from the base dump that fit the bill.
:omr:
 
Ringo said:
What is the time frame between the crash and the recovery?
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The Mogul balloon NYU Flight 4 was launched on June 4, 1947. Brazel found the debris in mid-June, and the collected debris was photographed on July 8th. So the stuff probably had been in the desert for a bit less than a month.
 
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