• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

The Sandy Hook Shooting 'Was Staged': Debunkers Wanted

G

garrick92

Guest
(This is going in the WOT folder because the theorist in question thinks Sandy Hook was a gun-control psy-op).

http://jenniferlake.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/sandy-hook-early-birds/

The blogger linked to above sets out an intriguing scenario, in which several separate and independent twitter accounts appear to have reported events at Sandy Hook before they had actually happened, and in which various shooting-specific SH websites were registered the day before.

I am sure that this is easily explicable as some kind of timezone-related internet glitch, but having discussed it with several sceptical people of my acquaintance none of us has been able to debunk it definitively.

I sort of put it out of my mind shortly after coming across it two months ago, but it keeps niggling at me. I really want to know the actual cause.

So I've started this thread in the hopes that one of you lot might be able to explain it.
 
sherbetbizarre said:
Sandy Hook seems to be bringing up more "false flag" articles than normal (when pretty much everything is false flag these days) Here's a way in-depth look at how an "iconic photo was faked"...

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/18 ... was-faked/
Click to expand...
One piece of proof is that it's winter and the kids in the photo aren't wearing their coats. Because, when kids are evacuated from a building in a dire emergency, the first thing that they should do is stop to pick up their coats. :roll:
 
Veterans Today is the project of Jim Fetzer who started out as a JFK "expert" but has since decided he likes any conspiracy theory going, and the bigger the better. He's a 9/11 truther of the 'controlled demolition' variety if memory serves. Or is it mini-nukes? It gets hard to keep up.
 
From the Hartford Connecticut Courant:

Our Grief Denied: The Twisted Cruelty Of Sandy Hook Hoaxers

Considering that not only the local police and emergency services would have to have been involved in such a false flag operation, but also the families & the dead schoolchildren. The level of conspiracy would have to have been on a truly mind boggling scale. These truther gun nuts are obviously just that boggled.

My internal pc clock is running an hour ahead of the FTMB's time stamp.
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
One piece of proof is that it's winter and the kids in the photo aren't wearing their coats. Because, when kids are evacuated from a building in a dire emergency, the first thing that they should do is stop to pick up their coats. :roll:
Click to expand...
Yeah, the problem with these conspiracy pages is they throw in everything, to the point it feels exhausting just thinking about reading them...

My internal pc clock is running an hour ahead of the FTMB's time stamp.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I buy that... a conspiracy in the making!
 
But it doesn't matter if your PC clock is an hour out, since the timestamp is correct on FTMB, surely?

Here are some more 'anomalous timestamps' in the SH case:

http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/201...ed-press-stories-photos-predate-the-massacre/

The thought that occurs to me is that perhaps such anomalous timestamps are very common for one reason or another. But if that were the case, why do we not see them everywhere, all the time? Or is it confirmation bias, and no-one's bothered checking for anomalous timestamps outside the SH context?

The details relating to the press agency photo archives in the above link are especially puzzling. I'm assuming, of course, that the person who discovered them wasn't playing some sick game of his own.
 
garrick92 said:
But it doesn't matter if your PC clock is an hour out, since the timestamp is correct on FTMB, surely?

...
Click to expand...
But, my clock is 'correct' too. ;)

More on debuking the gun-rights truthers time stamped web pages conspiracy theories.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ined-debunking-newtown-truther_n_2627233.html

Sandy Hook Hoax Theories Explained: Why Newtown 'Truther' Arguments Don't Hold Up

Huffington Post, Hunter Stuart. 11.February.2013

...

Memorial Websites And Facebook Pages Were Already Set Up

Some hoax theorists have questioned why some websites and social media pages set up as donation sites or memorials for victims were apparently date-stamped prior to the shooting. Isn't that proof that there was knowledge of the shooting before Dec. 14, they ask?

No, it isn't. As many people with blogs know, Google crawls webpages inconsistently and, as Insquisitr notes, "if a page is repurposed to host other information than it originally displayed, it may show up as having been 'published' earlier."

It's easy to illustrate this phenomenon. As Reddit user Oltimega points out on this thread about the issue, if one uses a date-restricted search, all kinds of articles come up about the Newtown shooting with Google date stamps weeks, months and even years before the shooting occurred.

In this example, the dates for these articles are from the 1990s:

a-SANDY-HOOK-HOAX-640x468.jpg

sandy hook hoax

As for Facebook pages, if a user creates a page on one day and then changes the title and contents a week or a month later -- without changing the URL -- the time stamp retains the original date. This seems to have been the case with first-grade teacher Victoria Soto's memorial page, which allegedly had a date stamp before Dec. 14.

...
Click to expand...
 
Ah, now *that* makes a degree of sense. Thanks for that.

But what about the tweets and the press agency photo archive?
 
You really ought to be asking why an entire county in Connecticut would take part in a spectacularly unsuccessful attempt to take the guns away from gun nuts.
 
Well, perhaps that might be the case if I actually believed this daft theory, but I don't.

I just want a rational explanation for the anomalous timestamps.
 
Yes, there is a special circle in fortean Hell reserved for conspiracy theories that hinge upon over-interpretations of unclear photographic evidence. I think the rot started with the JFK case -- the "Badgeman" figure and the Weberman/Canfield claims that the three tramps were Howard Hunt and Sturgis*.

I noted another such case today, in the Russian military's analysis of photos relating to the shootdown of MH17. Clear as mud.

* Edited to add: Obviously those two men couldn't be three tramps. I meant that the three tramps were alleged to include those two individuals, I forget who the third was supposed to be.
 
garrick92 said:
Yes, there is a special circle in fortean Hell reserved for conspiracy theories that hinge upon over-interpretations of unclear photographic evidence. I think the rot started with the JFK case -- the "Badgeman" figure and the Weberman/Canfield claims that the three tramps were Howard Hunt and Sturgis*.

I noted another such case today, in the Russian military's analysis of photos relating to the shootdown of MH17. Clear as mud.

* Edited to add: Obviously those two men couldn't be three tramps. I meant that the three tramps were alleged to include those two individuals, I forget who the third was supposed to be.
Click to expand...

G.H.W. Bush
 
No, I'm pretty sure that the third tramp was a complete 'unknown' in conspiracy terms.

There is a Dealey Plaza photo allegedly showing GHWB standing near the Book Depository steps, though. There is certainly a certain likeness, but it's just not sharp enough to be anything more than suggestive.

Edited to add: Just remembered: Third tramp was nicknamed 'Frenchie' for some reason I forget.
 
Veterans Today might have a rather iffy track record but it has recently been promoting the work of Wolfgang Halbig. He is a school safety instructor who aired some cogent suspicions about the incident and is now claiming to have in his possession a copy of the 12000 page script for the exercise. At that length he could be forgiven for not putting it all on the web though he really ought to get some of it online ( unless he's just scared of TPTB of course).
He is claiming it was all an exercise, that hundreds of local citizens played roles in the cause of gun control ( Connecticut being probably the most liberal state in America), that neither the victims nor Adam Lanza actually existed and that the school closed down in 2009.
He also claims to have supporting testimony from law enforcement professionals and perhaps crucially there are no debunkers shooting this down. There's much more to it than just the Tweets and the photo of the evacuated pupils, there are photos of that notorious pic being staged. Definitely worth checking out.
 
It's unfair to judge a man by the company he keeps, so I looked into Mr Halbig's claims for myself. He's plenty of supporters but some serious heavyweight opponents such as this guy.

If he has the docs he claims, he should put them OL as soon as possible, so we can all have a squizz.
 
he should put them OL as soon as possible,
Click to expand...

Completely agree, he's probably under all sorts of pressure, cops worried about their pension rights etc., maybe he's awestruck by the potential political ramifications. Still, no laws were actually broken so they are going to be far less than if this was a genuinely sinister incident.
Hernadez' refutations are rather cursory. The police statement he cites may not seem too improbable but there are plenty of others such as several officers claiming to have entered the school via a smashed in window where none of them followed training procedure and broke down all the glass and the adjacent door wasn't locked.
Just because Hernandez once phoned in one corpse as Dead Right There doesn't mean much, had the Sandy Hook cops even found all the bodies in that 11 minutes since the shootings were called in on 911, let alone conclusively ascertained death.
It may not be unusual for ambulances to park some distance away but Halbig produced photos showing them boxed in by empty parked cars, which does seem anomalous.
Other police statements allege they told children emerging from rooms with alleged bodies in them to return to those rooms and wait. It seems the script didn't run to faking every last police statement, perhaps the cops thought they could do it better (?!)
He nitpicks over the helicopter ambulances, but this is a small town suburban school, there must have been plenty of landing space. He suggests there may not have been many available, but why send none at all?
He admits to knowing nothing of the FBI report, he really should have apprised himself of it: it took an exceptional time to be released, 64 pages out of 175 were completely redacted and the remainder partially so - nothing like that has ever happened before. It has just released it's crime stats for Connecticut for the period, showing no murders at all in Sandy Hook.
He omits many points, such as Lanza allegedly firing 154 rounds in a crowded school yet killing only 26 and wounding none.

Aside from the alleged script that FBI report needs explaining. Halbig is in the perhaps unenviable position of possessing lock stock and barrel smoking gun evidence I don't think he's conjured up that script, he hasn't launched a flashy campaign and doesn't seem to be making any money out of it all.
I suspect he's preparing the ground for his disclosure, he 's a thorough type and it's quite a cat to be letting out of the bag.
 
Anyone can deconstruct an official account of something -- as is proven by thousands of internet 'suspicious minds', seemingly every minute of every day -- but it's actually constructing a more credible and evidenced alternative that counts.

All this fiddling and fannying around with hypotheticals and what-abouts and "shoulda-coulda-woulda"s gets us nowhere in the long run. If this guy has the goods, then let him deliver. That's as far as my interest goes.

Apart from my initial poser about the discrepantly-timestamped tweets, which I note no-one has yet attempted to explain.
 
garrick92 said:
Apart from my initial poser about the discrepantly-timestamped tweets, which I note no-one has yet attempted to explain.
Click to expand...
I know nothing about Twitter but it's probably showing the local time of the tweeter. So a tweet from someone identifying themselves as GMT-8 (west coast of US) appears "before" the event, which happened in the GMT-5 (east coast of US) time zone.

On top of that, it's probably showing the time based on a self identified time zone. Hotmail thinks I live in GMT-12 for instance.
 
Well, something similar occurred to me (Hotmail thinks I am still on GMT rather than BST for example), but if you go back and read the blog link in the original post on this thread, you'll see that the earliest 'premature' tweets reporting the shooting came from the newsdesk of the Hartford Courant, which is Sandy Hook's local paper (plus one from the other local paper, the Sacramento Bee). I don't think any timezone discrepancy can account for that.
 
So, here's me, not what you would call IT savvy, but I'm going to conduct an experiment to check my thoughts on the time code anomalies.

I'll report my findings in a while.


Stage 3 of the experiment.
 
So, here's stage 2 of my experiment.

Note the time stamp.
 
Ok here's what I did.

Stage 1 - post a comment on ftmb. This occurred at 3:31.

Stage 2 - post a second comment on ftmb. This occured at 3:37.

Stage 3 - Edited first comment. The time code did not change to the edited time, it stayed at 3:31.

This suggests to me that the early time codes could come about due to an article being edited. I would imagine that a local news outlet might initially report a cat stuck in a tree, but as events of the day unfolded, that article be not just edited but completely overtaken by the days events, so the initial cat in tree post be deleted, not removed, and the subsequent over writing appear with the earlier time code.

Well, there's my tuppence worth anyway.
 
Why would a newspaper go back and edit an hours-old and irrelevant tweet instead of simply tweeting a new tweet while a major news story was breaking? And not just once, but several times?

I'm not even sure you can edit 'old' tweets (delete, yes, but edit no), but this would still be pretty bizarre behaviour even if it were possible. For a start, it would mean that the new story would be 'buried at birth', way down the list, rather than appearing as a new tweet at the top of the stack.

And then you have to assume that both local papers indulged in the same weird behaviour.

I don't think this idea has legs.
 
garrick92 said:
Well, something similar occurred to me (Hotmail thinks I am still on GMT rather than BST for example), but if you go back and read the blog link in the original post on this thread, you'll see that the earliest 'premature' tweets reporting the shooting came from the newsdesk of the Hartford Courant, which is Sandy Hook's local paper (plus one from the other local paper, the Sacramento Bee). I don't think any timezone discrepancy can account for that.
Click to expand...
Assumption: These papers changed their timezones to reflect their proper zone. Also, Sacramento is the capital of California, and the local paper for that city is the Sacramento Bee. Unless there's another Sacramento near Sandy Hook, and it's local paper is also called the Bee, the Sacramento Bee is not a local paper.
 
Geography FAIL from me, there. Knowing how intensely local US newspapers are (you could count the 'nationals' on the fingers of one hand) I had assumed the Bee was also a Connecticut paper, not on the other side of the country!

So, some scope for a theoretical timezone lag between the two papers, but that's not what the twitter timestamps show. They show the two papers reporting 'in unison', hours early to events.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top