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The Science Of Bad Vibes: Can Places Retain Negative Energy?

That is true, though what if these locations were sourced from existing threads such as this one, and books etc?
That would in theory reduce the power of suggestion.

@Mikefule wrote:

"Even if, for the sake of argument, there is an actual objective phenomenon, it would be extremely difficult to separate those reports that were "real" from those based on social factors, expectations, and suggestion."

I answer:

True.
But still worth a go, in my opinion.

If we add in the ideas @Coal has, and I make a lot of money, I will be up for funding the measuring instruments and then testing different places.
But you could have a list of places where people had reported 'feeling uncomfortable' or unhappy or whatever, then you take a group of people to those places (without telling them of the reports), and you don't tell them why they are there. You make it a photography investigation, or, I dunno, a survey into carpets or something. Afterwards, you give them a questionnaire, in which one or two of the questions involve perceptions of sensations at the location.

You do a similar experiment using places from which there are no reports of strange feelings. You then go in with the scientific equipment and measure whether or not there are any differences between the places, and you collate and contrast with the experiences of those who didn't know they were supposed to be experiencing anything.
 
But you could have a list of places where people had reported 'feeling uncomfortable' or unhappy or whatever, then you take a group of people to those places (without telling them of the reports), and you don't tell them why they are there. You make it a photography investigation, or, I dunno, a survey into carpets or something. Afterwards, you give them a questionnaire, in which one or two of the questions involve perceptions of sensations at the location.

You do a similar experiment using places from which there are no reports of strange feelings. You then go in with the scientific equipment and measure whether or not there are any differences between the places, and you collate and contrast with the experiences of those who didn't know they were supposed to be experiencing anything.
Great idea.

If I get that cash and can work part-time or retire, then let's do it!
 
And (and I hate to bang on about this), but this is what the psychologist does in my book, where he's investigating a 'haunted house'. Proper, scientific investigation (although it's only mentioned fairly obliquely in the actual book because it's a Women's Fiction/Romance novel and the publishers baulk if you go into too much detail. Slows the story down, apparently. Huh.) Oh, and the FT gets a couple of mentions and I've dedicated the book to this here forum!
 
Yep, not a simple problem. Chris French did a study {The “Haunt” Project: An attempt to build a “haunted” room by manipulating complex electromagnetic fields and infrasound. Christopher C. French, Usman Haque, Rosie Bunton-Stasyshyn & Rob Davis} using ultrasound and electrical fields (although the study doesn't specify the electrical fields in any detail, which seems casual tbh).

Part of the issue is that to run any kind of psychology study one has to hide the true goal to avoid priming the subjects. As studying the 'spookiness' of the environment can cause fear and distress, it also necessary to warn the subjects as ethically yer have to...so the gig's up very often.

This experiment showed that people who believe in the paranormal are more likely to experience spooky stuff.


Also,


...the issue is that 'honest and sincere' is not reliable or consistent, as (as discussed elsewhere on the board) what we think we saw may or may not have been what was there, however honest one is about it.

Some more fascinating information on experiments with infrasound in this article.
I found it particularly interesting that some traditional church organs have organ pipes large enough to produce infrasound, with the speculation being that they were designed to produce a spiritual sense of awe during certain musical passages:

https://www.sarahangliss.com/infrasonic/
 
Some more fascinating information on experiments with infrasound in this article.
I found it particularly interesting that some traditional church organs have organ pipes large enough to produce infrasound, with the speculation being that they were designed to produce a spiritual sense of awe during certain musical passages:

https://www.sarahangliss.com/infrasonic/
Excellent, thank you. :hoff:
 
I have always thought that places/buildings, etc, possess their own kind of energy. Maybe this collects over time and is the product/residue of the people who have lived in them, but often, I liken it to how the weather seems to affect us all too, albeit unconsciously for many..

My old home town has an area that just feels wrong. I could go out walking and draw a line in chalk to mark it off. It begins adjacent to the town centre, then widens out into a large kidney shape. It encompasses several areas within the borough, which takes in a good chunk of the town centre, veers off into a collection of small naighbourhoods, paths and trees, then circles back around to the central train stations.
The feeling is one of depression, restlessness, a potential for violence. And this isn't just mere association: the town has changed over the years, but the feeling is always there. Certain spots are known for their crime rate, which include areas where a majority of the town's poorest live. Cause and effect? Or something else? I recall the areas in question to have had an unsettling darkness about them long before the council decided to pool the more troubled souls into it.

The area is close to a canal, with the addition of redeveloped housing (post war council properties) and old mill terraces. It is sadly a rather depressed and rough area nowadays, but wasn't always. It would be too easy to attribute it to social issues, if you were unfamiliar with it. Which came first, the feeling/energy, or the collective, human malaise?

The interesting thing is that I really could begin walking at one point on the canal, feel the damn feeling and 'walk with it'. I can tell when I have 'stepped out of it'.

Perhaps I ought to dig deeper, check out some of the area's history.

Back to my thoughts about the weather, at least in the North West UK: People become restless and angrier in periods of strong winds. This collective oddness can quickly disappear if the next day is either still, rainy or sunny. I have been intrigued by this over the years and am quite sure it's a thing! I was even going to begin a new post on it - if it hasn't been done before?
In this town of which I speak, I had many years to observe prior to moving away. Hot sunny days made even the most aggressive groups more amiable. Likewise very cold, still days. A couple of school teachers I know agreed - that many pupils tend to be difficult to work with on windy days.

In my old town, this is also a seasonal thing. I noticed more crime and restlessness shoot up at the start of October, becoming more pronounced approaching Bonfire Night. As November (and winter) progressed, the feelings of calamity wear off again, until May - July! Maybe it is specific to this one place, an ex industrial town, as I can't say that I have observed it when living in other, more suburban or rural areas - I am not so sure the Lake District counts (tourism and diversity) and my childhood was farmland, with it's own very special corners of darkness, which are for another thread!
 
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I have always thought that places/buildings, etc, possess their own kind of energy. Maybe this collects over time and is the product/residue of the people who have lived in them, but often, I liken it to how the weather seems to affect us all too, albeit unconsciously for many..

My old home town has an area that just feels wrong. I could go out walking and draw a line in chalk to mark it off. It begins adjacent to the town centre, then widens out into a large kidney shape. It encompasses several areas within the borough, which takes in a good chunk of the town centre, veers off into a collection of small naighbourhoods, paths and trees, then circles back around to the central train stations.
The feeling is one of depression, restlessness, a potential for violence. And this isn't just mere association: the town has changed over the years, but the feeling is always there. Certain spots are known for their crime rate, which include areas where a majority of the town's poorest live. Cause and effect? Or something else? I recall the areas in question to have had an unsettling darkness about them long before the council decided to pool the more troubled souls into it.

The area is close to a canal, with the addition of redeveloped housing (post war council properties) and old mill terraces. It is sadly a rather depressed and rough area nowadays, but wasn't always. It would be too easy to attribute it to social issues, if you were unfamiliar with it. Which came first, the feeling/energy, or the collective, human malaise?

The interesting thing is that I really could begin walking at one point on the canal, feel the damn feeling and 'walk with it'. I can tell when I have 'stepped out of it'.

Perhaps I ought to dig deeper, check out some of the area's history.

Back to my thoughts about the weather, at least in the North West UK: People become restless and angrier in periods of strong winds. This collective oddness can quickly disappear if the next day is either still, rainy or sunny. I have been intrigued by this over the years and am quite sure it's a thing! I was even going to begin a new post on it - if it hasn't been done before?
In this town of which I speak, I had many years to observe prior to moving away. Hot sunny days made even the most aggressive groups more amiable. Likewise very cold, still days. A couple of school teachers I know agreed - that many pupils tend to be difficult to work with on windy days.

In my old town, this is also a seasonal thing. I noticed more crime and restlessness shoot up at the start of October, becoming more pronounced approaching Bonfire Night. As November (and winter) progressed, the feelings of calamity wear off again, until May - July! Maybe it is specific to this one place, an ex industrial town, as I can't say that I have observed it when living in other, more suburban or rural areas - I am not so sure the Lake District counts (tourism and diversity) and my childhood was farmland, with it's own very special corners of darkness, which are for another thread!

High winds are associated with low pressure systems, which bring unsettled weather with rain and clouds. They’re known as depressions.

Also, in the northern hemisphere, air flows counterclockwise in depressions, AKA widdershins.

Coincidence? You be the judge.

maximus otter
 
High winds are associated with low pressure systems, which bring unsettled weather with rain and clouds. They’re known as depressions.

Also, in the northern hemisphere, air flows counterclockwise in depressions, AKA widdershins.

Coincidence? You be the judge.

maximus otter
High winds can make animals go a bit wild too - 'having the wind under their tails' we call it. Riding a twitchy horse on a windy day is a recipe for having to change your underpants as soon as you get off. In schools too, it's noted that young children become noticeably more energetic when it's windy.

Whereas warm sunny weather seems to calm everyone down and bring out the smiles. Maybe it's just our nothern climate, where it's grey and dark and miserable for so much of the year that we are glad to see the sun. It's probably very different in countries where the hot weather just sets in for months at a time.
 
I have always thought that places/buildings, etc, possess their own kind of energy. Maybe this collects over time and is the product/residue of the people who have lived in them, but often, I liken it to how the weather seems to affect us all too, albeit unconsciously for many..

My old home town has an area that just feels wrong. I could go out walking and draw a line in chalk to mark it off. It begins adjacent to the town centre, then widens out into a large kidney shape. It encompasses several areas within the borough, which takes in a good chunk of the town centre, veers off into a collection of small naighbourhoods, paths and trees, then circles back around to the central train stations.
The feeling is one of depression, restlessness, a potential for violence. And this isn't just mere association: the town has changed over the years, but the feeling is always there. Certain spots are known for their crime rate, which include areas where a majority of the town's poorest live. Cause and effect? Or something else? I recall the areas in question to have had an unsettling darkness about them long before the council decided to pool the more troubled souls into it.

The area is close to a canal, with the addition of redeveloped housing (post war council properties) and old mill terraces. It is sadly a rather depressed and rough area nowadays, but wasn't always. It would be too easy to attribute it to social issues, if you were unfamiliar with it. Which came first, the feeling/energy, or the collective, human malaise?

The interesting thing is that I really could begin walking at one point on the canal, feel the damn feeling and 'walk with it'. I can tell when I have 'stepped out of it'.

Perhaps I ought to dig deeper, check out some of the area's history.

Back to my thoughts about the weather, at least in the North West UK: People become restless and angrier in periods of strong winds. This collective oddness can quickly disappear if the next day is either still, rainy or sunny. I have been intrigued by this over the years and am quite sure it's a thing! I was even going to begin a new post on it - if it hasn't been done before?
In this town of which I speak, I had many years to observe prior to moving away. Hot sunny days made even the most aggressive groups more amiable. Likewise very cold, still days. A couple of school teachers I know agreed - that many pupils tend to be difficult to work with on windy days.

In my old town, this is also a seasonal thing. I noticed more crime and restlessness shoot up at the start of October, becoming more pronounced approaching Bonfire Night. As November (and winter) progressed, the feelings of calamity wear off again, until May - July! Maybe it is specific to this one place, an ex industrial town, as I can't say that I have observed it when living in other, more suburban or rural areas - I am not so sure the Lake District counts (tourism and diversity) and my childhood was farmland, with it's own very special corners of darkness, which are for another thread!

I’ve been pondering this, and I wonder if there are urban topologies that by their very nature cause one to behave differently, because they mimic the topology of landscapes where one is (or in pre-history 'was') more likely to be attacked by a predator.

So the landscape puts the body into a fight or flight response mode on some low level – I recall a study from a few years back which could be summed up as ‘”you more likely to be shot if you take a gun to a confrontation” - as a soon as a weapon is in evidence, fight or flight instincts are aroused in all participants and a conflict becomes more likely.

So some urban landscapes, due to (say) short sight-lines, multiple ambush points, to which might be added a reputation for anti-social behaviours, causes a heightened response to danger, which manifests in some people as a sense of unease.

(Threat sensitivity is part of a character trait - it varies from person to person - those who might be described as 'neurotic' can be considered as more threat senstive. This trait is more or less normally distributed, so some people are going to be more sensitive to these kinds of landscapes/effects than others. )

...imagine having to live in such an environment – the increase in conflicts is added to the effect of the environment, other predators move into a landscape for easy pickings and then it's one big positive feedback loop...

High winds can make animals go a bit wild too - 'having the wind under their tails' we call it. Riding a twitchy horse on a windy day is a recipe for having to change your underpants as soon as you get off. In schools too, it's noted that young children become noticeably more energetic when it's windy.

Whereas warm sunny weather seems to calm everyone down and bring out the smiles. Maybe it's just our nothern climate, where it's grey and dark and miserable for so much of the year that we are glad to see the sun. It's probably very different in countries where the hot weather just sets in for months at a time.
Horse are prey animals, evolutionary speaking and high winds tend to overwhelm the senses, especially hearing and also cause a lot of atypical movements in the landscape. Horses might well be skittish in conditions that continually trigger two of their main means of detecting danger.

I think people feel this as well, perhaps at a little lower level – moment does attract our attention (video games relay on this) and to be in an environment where the orienting response is continually triggered could well raise one's stress levels – perhaps why schoolchildren are more unruly on such windy days - and in the wild it's a short step from there to a continually occurring startle reflex (and then panic).
 
High winds can make animals go a bit wild too - 'having the wind under their tails' we call it.

Deer become more nervous in windy weather. They run more readily, and tend to run farther.

“Effects of Wind Strength

Both Fallow and Roe deer flee at greater distances during stronger winds than occurs in light or little wind.

Their impaired sensory abilities in moderate to stronger winds cause them to become increasingly more nervous in windy weather.

The reason for this is that in increased to powerful winds – especially swirling winds – the animals can detect human or predator scent for possibly only a second or two, and then it has gone again, no doubt making pinpointing the location of danger more difficult.

In such conditions, the animal will become very nervous and run away from what they perceive to be danger – whether it exists or not.


For this reason, stalking success is significantly reduced in windy weather as animal behaviour changes and flight distance increases.”

https://www.premierwildlife.co.uk/influences-on-deer-flight-distances/

maximus otter
 
I think with horses, a lot of it is down to unfamiliar stimuli. Things making noises that don't usually make noise, wind coming off roofs making sound travel weirdly and things flapping that are normally rigid. Branches wave, hedges rustle - as though something might burst its way out at them at any minute. As @Coal says, they are still prey animals underneath.
 
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