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The Science Of Bad Vibes: Can Places Retain Negative Energy?

If places really had an inherent "vibe" that was genuine (and not just subjective), why have these circumstances not been measured objectively?
I understand and agree with what you're getting at (objective v subjective), but I've had a bad relationship with Physics since the age of 12. The effort you put into pushing a boulder up a hill is stored as potential (kinetic) energy. When you position it at the top, the boulder isn't moving but has the potential to move ie roll back down the hill on a puff of wind, releasing stored energy as heat, noise etc. This potential energy in an object can be calculated (mass, elevation, gravity etc) but can also be measured apparently (Mr Joule had a device detecting stored energy as heat, but cannot find much about this). I personally found this a bit spooky, units of potential energy (and electrical potential) are more of a concept than a thing to me. There's nothing in the shadows but there maybe the potential for something to leap out at me. Dont think I expressed my thoughts too clearly.
 
<Nods>

I never got that either. A rock on top of the cliff is the same as one in the valley? Except you can knock it off.

But you can carry the one in the valley to the top of the cliff.


A builder I knew was offered a house cheap to do up...rundown, listed, but not picturesque, if you know what I mean, and a bit inaccessible but with the attractions (or not!) of a dump and a railway.

A bit of a specialist to love and work on? Certainly a house to love (as it is today, well restored).

He didnt like it, said it was haunted.

Was he reacting to the grouchy location or the fact a stream ran right under the front?

I can well believe it had a feeling.
 
I once lived in a house where things just didn't feel right and downright spooky at night when there on my own. I knew nothing of the history of the place (and still don't) but I wasn't too keen on being there. One day MrsF was there on her own for a while (I'd only just bought the house) and when I came back she said she'd not seen, but had 'felt' a presence walking through where the window in the living room was. I then took her outside to show her the old stone doorstep that had been left in place when they had at some point in time removed the doorway and turned it into a window (by laying bricks from the old doorstep up to window sill level). MrsF did not know that this used to be a doorway and I hadn't told her that I felt uneasy in that house either.
 
I have a personal list of those, place where you keep checking nothing's there. One, for instance, was a short bank-side path on a lake between two fishing pitches. Utterly unremarkable. But I just dont like it.
I’d love to hear more about them :)
What is interesting is that often most of them are quite unremarkable places, yes.
 
The corridor passing the Head's Office and Staff room was as oppressive and sombre as it had ever been - hundreds of years of despair and humiliation ingrained into the walls
Schools after hours do have an odd feeling about them. I used to go to school where my uncle taught so often waited behind to get a lift home with him, sometimes for an hour or more. All the bustle gone, just a few staff and cleaners. I wasn’t really supposed to walk around, just wait in his office, but I did a few times and it was unsettling. (no ghost stories associated with the place at all, just the silence after the rush I suppose).
 
I think empty workplaces 'after hours' do have that feel about them. I was alone, working late one night in a large open plan office, and am convinced something tapped me on the shoulder.
 
If places really had an inherent "vibe" that was genuine (and not just subjective), why have these circumstances not been measured objectively?
The mystical connotations of "earth energies" are like nails on a chalkboard to geologists who study the earth. If it exists, it can be measured. We can measure the most minute energy releases, yet there is nothing in leylines, dowsing, or earth energies that have ever been documented - even though they supposedly occur worldwide. If "energy" was real, why is it so subjective and unmeasurable? IMO, if there was something to this, it would have already been documented (and exploited - other than via paranormalists).

Edit: I'm only talking about "earth energy" mystical places here, not ones where the "vibe" seems weird because there are plenty of natural factors that can go into that.
Before I start: I broadly agree with you. However, I will play the advocate of the putative Adversary of the putative benign Creator:

There are many reasons why the "energy" if it existed may not have been detected.

The simplest and most obvious is that "Science" is making no effort to detect it.

The Scientific community, like every other community, has its preconceptions and orthodoxies. It would be a brave and unusual scientist who risked their career and reputation investigating something that is so widely assumed to be nonsense, even if they could secure funding for it.

Even if someone were to invest time and funds into detecting the "energy" it might be a very faint signal and it might take many years of trial and error to develop a device capable of detecting it, especially if they were picking out a faint signal against a noisy background.

Radiation, ultrasound, and electromagnetic fields, and many other things you could loosely call "energies" or "vibrations", all existed long before their existence was suspected or before they could be detected with equipment. Marie Curie was a great scientist and was actively studying radiation but she surely did not realise that she was exposing herself to an invisible radiation that would eventually kill her.

It is sometimes the case that Science predicts the existence of something long before it is possible to detect it. Construction of the Large Hadron Collider started in 1998 with a view to detecting the putative Higgs Boson particle. The Higgs Boson was predicted in the 1970s, and its existence was only confirmed in 2013.

So if Science is allowed to predict something decades before there is a device potentially capable of detecting it, then it is unfair to criticise proponents of "Earth energy" simply on the grounds that it has not yet been detected.

However, I recognise this is a faulty analogy.

The Higgs Boson was predicted on the basis of an internally consistent hypothesis developed on the back of a substantial preexisting body of observation and theory.

The various "Earth energy" ideas, along with comparable ideas like "stone tape theory" and "crystal energy" (etc.) seem to me to be no more than ad hoc "what if-ery", relying on a combination of suggestive analogy and scientific-sounding words (energy, vibrations, resonance, etc.)

Physics is a science. Maybeology isn't.
 
Schools after hours do have an odd feeling about them. I used to go to school where my uncle taught so often waited behind to get a lift home with him, sometimes for an hour or more. All the bustle gone, just a few staff and cleaners. I wasn’t really supposed to walk around, just wait in his office, but I did a few times and it was unsettling. (no ghost stories associated with the place at all, just the silence after the rush I suppose).
I think (for myself) that there is a tendency for empty buildings to be especially eerie as they are so strongly associated in the mind with the people normally about them. We top-down process the context, but see and hear nothing and the juxtaposition (or even cognitive dissonance) is the eerie feeling. I suspect, but am still digging, that if we can smell people, this strengthens the 'context' of expecting people, then not seeing them, then we're on edge and then the slightest thing manifests as unexplained or 'a presence'.

Also, once this has happens, it become part of the internal heuristic the individual uses to process the same place (or one very like it), a strong prior association with eerie, which then becomes the dominant factor in the assessment of the repeated venue/similar venue. A stuck strong prior association if you like.

None of this moderately rational explanation stops you wanting to leggit...
 
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Physics is a science. Maybeology isn't.
Physics with its inherent Uncertainty Principle, spooky action at a distance, a need for a Committee to decide (after 3 weeks) whether on the balance of probability the Higgs Boson had been discovered or not is (to me) the epitome of Maybeology. Back to an old question - does God exist ? The only empirical way to answer that is to take a Universe with God in it and compare it to a Universe without God in it and apply the differences to our Universe. Impossible to do but that does not mean it's an invalid question, just not a scientific one and you need to employ other branches of natural philosophy. What if you ask if ghosts exist - same criteria ? I understand the argument that normal or paranormal, natural or supernatural, physics or metaphysical events require energy and that should be measureable objectively. But what if (conditional) a prolonged period of strong emotions or a repetitive ritual of action leaves an impression on - "the psychosphere" ? and the only instrument that can measure this is the non-standardised, non-calibrated remarkably complex brain (animals seem to pick up 'vibes as well as people) with its replendent senses. Guess I'm saying that in Fortean matters subjectivity should not necessarily be treated as inferior to objectivity.
 
Before I start: I broadly agree with you. However, I will play the advocate of the putative Adversary of the putative benign Creator:

There are many reasons why the "energy" if it existed may not have been detected.

The simplest and most obvious is that "Science" is making no effort to detect it.

The Scientific community, like every other community, has its preconceptions and orthodoxies. It would be a brave and unusual scientist who risked their career and reputation investigating something that is so widely assumed to be nonsense, even if they could secure funding for it.

Even if someone were to invest time and funds into detecting the "energy" it might be a very faint signal and it might take many years of trial and error to develop a device capable of detecting it, especially if they were picking out a faint signal against a noisy background.

Radiation, ultrasound, and electromagnetic fields, and many other things you could loosely call "energies" or "vibrations", all existed long before their existence was suspected or before they could be detected with equipment. Marie Curie was a great scientist and was actively studying radiation but she surely did not realise that she was exposing herself to an invisible radiation that would eventually kill her.

It is sometimes the case that Science predicts the existence of something long before it is possible to detect it. Construction of the Large Hadron Collider started in 1998 with a view to detecting the putative Higgs Boson particle. The Higgs Boson was predicted in the 1970s, and its existence was only confirmed in 2013.

So if Science is allowed to predict something decades before there is a device potentially capable of detecting it, then it is unfair to criticise proponents of "Earth energy" simply on the grounds that it has not yet been detected.

However, I recognise this is a faulty analogy.

The Higgs Boson was predicted on the basis of an internally consistent hypothesis developed on the back of a substantial preexisting body of observation and theory.

The various "Earth energy" ideas, along with comparable ideas like "stone tape theory" and "crystal energy" (etc.) seem to me to be no more than ad hoc "what if-ery", relying on a combination of suggestive analogy and scientific-sounding words (energy, vibrations, resonance, etc.)

Physics is a science. Maybeology isn't.
Sure, but, for all time, people have been looking for water, minerals, metals, gems, and other valuables in the earth. Geologists have developed technologies for remote sensing that look into the ground - seismic surveys, ground-penetrating radar, electrical conductivity, electrical resistivity, thermal imaging, etc. The earth is also generally well mapped. If this "energy" was part of the earth system, it would be widespread. I understand the notion of "not looking for it so you don't find it" but these energies are said to be quite powerful so it doesn't make sense that it's a marvelous thing but we can't find or identify it.
 
I think (for myself) that there is a tendency for empty buildings to be especially eerie as they are so strongly associated in the mind with the people normally about them. We top-down process the context, but see and hear nothing and the juxtaposition (or even cognitive dissonance) is the eerie feeling. I suspect, but am still digging, that if we can smell people, this strengthens the 'context' of expecting people, then not seeing them, then we're on edge and then the slightest thing manifests as unexplained or 'a presence'.

Also, once this has happens, it become part of the internal heuristic the individual uses to process the same place (or one very like it), a strong prior association with eerie, which then becomes the dominant factor in the assessment of the repeated venue/similar venue. A stuck strong prior association if you like.

None of this moderately rational explanation stops you wanting to leggit...
Alothugh, it popped into my head, when the swallows were picking the moss off the roof this morning, that equally there must be places that give one a frisson of 'nice'. So as an example a lane I used a short cut some time ago, had a neat red-brick slate-roofed cottage set back into a field and it just felt good to see it, so I went back that way later on to see it again.
 
As previously remarked, I have the receptivity of a breeze block, but I have found some houses feel 'unwelcoming'. But I've always put that down to either damp or cold. I don't think I've ever had that feeling in a house with the heating on and something nice bubbling on the stove. So, basically, for me you can eliminate all 'sinister atmospheres' simply by baking a cake and leaving the oven door open.
 
I don't think I've ever had that feeling in a house with the heating on and something nice bubbling on the stove. So, basically, for me you can eliminate all 'sinister atmospheres' simply by baking a cake and leaving the oven door open.

I read years ago that, when selling a house, people are very responsive to odours. An almost-universally popular one is fresh coffee.

When selling our house on Skye, I always made sure that the filter coffee machine was doing its thing when potential purchasers came to look around. One such even noted the machine, met my eye, gave me an old-fashioned look and remarked, "You're good..."

:cool:

maximus otter
 
I read years ago that, when selling a house, people are very responsive to odours. An almost-universally popular one is fresh coffee.

When selling our house on Skye, I always made sure that the filter coffee machine was doing its thing when potential purchasers came to look around. One such even noted the machine, met my eye, gave me an old-fashioned look and remarked, "You're good..."

:cool:

maximus otter
And you hid all the guns and knives as well?
 
I read years ago that, when selling a house, people are very responsive to odours. An almost-universally popular one is fresh coffee.

When selling our house on Skye, I always made sure that the filter coffee machine was doing its thing when potential purchasers came to look around. One such even noted the machine, met my eye, gave me an old-fashioned look and remarked, "You're good..."

:cool:

maximus otter
When we were selling our house in Somerset, I used to scatter coffee beans around on the stove top, which gave the smell of roasting coffee. I couldn't make actual coffee as I was pregnant and the smell of coffee made me feel incredibly sick, yet the smell of the beans roasting didn't, for some odd reason.
 
I used to have bread /cookies in the oven for viewings. People will overlook a bit of untidyness if they can smell food!
 
Years ago in the 90's I was reading an article about the Sussex Areological Society and how in a field they'd discovered Roman remains that had been an open shrine to Minerva (Athene to the Greeks). If I remember correctly, the site of a shrine would have been carefully chosen according to the lay of the land, the trees and vegetation that grew there, and other factors, possibly laylines. Travellers going near the shrine would detour and offer some fruits or flowers, or incense, and go on their way.

As it wasn't that far from where I lived and as the coordinates were given and as I had a hand held Garmin GPS, I thought I'd go and investigate and ponder on that all those years ago people that went to the spot to offer their resects. It was in the middle of a field roughly half way between Stanmer and Westmeston a few miles outside Brighton on the Downs.

It was indeed in the middle of a field but to my surprise the actual site itself was a clump of trees with long and short grass and oddly with no gorse which grows everywhere on the Downs. In the warm sunshine I found a place to sit with my back against a tree and had my coffee and sandwiches. Fortunately the field was between crops. Whilst sitting there I thought to myself this is a really really peaceful spot with an exceptional feeling of calm and tranquility so much so I dozed off for about half an hour.

Then there's the opposite. Being a window cleaner there's some windows I clean at night. I don't do early morning - too many druggies and night clubbers off their nuts on booze and or drugs or both. One place I do is the 2 story back of a posh Hair Salon. It's along a 10 or 12ft wide road called Orange Row. In winter time especially the place gives me the creeps.

As an aside, I do the front as well. (It's along Gardner St then I do the backs along Orange Row.) The shop is always locked up, and padlocked, with genuine 19th Century grills over the main window and the only entrance, the front door. All the windows have internal grills as well. One night 3 or 4 years ago while doing the back I noticed a person looking out the 1st floor window and thought that's odd, as the place is locked shut as I just cleaned the front upper windows. A few seconds later the person had gone. I text'd the owner and he drove out to check no one was locked inside which he very much doubted. I waited out the front for him as he didn't live far away. When he arrived he said to come inside and check with him in case anyone had broken in which was highly unlikely as what would they steal? Hair dryers? We checked all four floors, basement, ground, 1st and 2nd. No one. He didn't dispute what I saw, which I thought odd, and I have no rational explanation. I saw what I saw. He told me to keep it to myself though and not mention it to any staff which made me think maybe........

Going back to the small roadway, Orange Row. I always get a very bad feeling along there. It doesn't worry me unduly. It's just not nice and I find myself constantly looking around even in summer. One winters evening a group of people appeared at the north end of the roadway, it runs basically north to south or south to north, and walked towards me. There was a tall man in a black cape, Victorian clothing and a Victorian hat and about 20 people following him. Being nosey and anything but shy, I stopped him and asked the obvious. It was a ghost tour. I expressed my surprise. He said along towards one end of Orange Row where it turns a 90 degree bend south of me, about 100 yards from where I was, in the 16th, 17th and part way into the 18th Century there had been a gallows as at that time it was way outside the town boundary. The path as it then was, was known as Black Lands, on account not only of the gallows but the Black Thorn trees that grew there, and was renamed during early Victorian times To Orange Row when cheap poorly built houses were built which rapidly became slums as only the very poor lived there. He also said that those that had been hung, mainly for smuggling, were buried nearby but the actual places were never marked or if they were, it would be with a simple small wooden cross which wouldn't last long. When the small lock up industrial units were built along the western side of Orange Row, apparently workmen did find some remains which oddly enough I vaguely remember reading about in the local rag about 20 or even up to maybe 30 years ago. I did do a web search but it turned up nothing.

Weeks later when I saw the shop owner I said about the gallows, etc, and he said, yes, I know and he said again not to mention any of it to the staff. I asked him again about the person (?) I saw and he said would you go in there on your own at night and then he said, I have, and never again and that's why two people always lock up the premises after all the other stylists and staff have gone. I wanted to ask more. One day I will.
 
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Years ago in the 90's I was reading an article about the Sussex Areological Society and how in a field they'd discovered Roman remains that had been an open shrine to Minerva (Athene to the Greeks). If I remember correctly, the site of a shrine would have been carefully chosen according to the lay of the land, the trees and vegetation that grew there, and other factors, possibly laylines. Travellers going near the shrine would detour and offer some fruits or flowers, or incense, and go on their way.

As it wasn't that far from where I lived and as the coordinates were given and as I had a hand held Garmin GPS, I thought I'd go and investigate and ponder on that all those years ago people that went to the spot to offer their resects. It was in the middle of a field roughly half way between Stanmer and Westmeston a few miles outside Brighton on the Downs.

It was indeed in the middle of a field but to my surprise the actual site itself was a clump of trees with long and short grass and oddly with no gorse which grows everywhere on the Downs. In the warm sunshine I found a place to sit with my back against a tree and had my coffee and sandwiches. Fortunately the field was between crops. Whilst sitting there I thought to myself this is a really really peaceful spot with an exceptional feeling of calm and tranquility so much so I dozed off for about half an hour.

Then there's the opposite. Being a window cleaner there's some windows I clean at night. I don't do early morning - too many druggies and night clubbers off their nuts on booze and or drugs or both. One place I do is the 2 story back of a posh Hair Salon. It's along a 10 or 12ft wide road called Orange Row. In winter time especially the place gives me the creeps.

As an aside, I do the front as well. (It's along Gardner St then I do the backs along Orange Row.) The shop is always locked up, and padlocked, with genuine 19th Century grills over the main window and the only entrance, the front door. All the windows have internal grills as well. One night 3 or 4 years ago while doing the back I noticed a person looking out the 1st floor window and thought that's odd, as the place is locked shut as I just cleaned the front upper windows. A few seconds later the person had gone. I text'd the owner and he drove out to check no one was locked inside which he very much doubted. I waited out the front for him as he didn't live far away. When he arrived he said to come inside and check with him in case anyone had broken in which was highly unlikely as what would they steal? Hair dryers? We checked all four floors, basement, ground, 1st and 2nd. No one. He didn't dispute what I saw, which I thought odd, and I have no rational explanation. I saw what I saw. He told me to keep it to myself though and not mention it to any staff which made me think maybe........

Going back to the small roadway, Orange Row. I always get a very bad feeling along there. It doesn't worry me unduly. It's just not nice and I find myself constantly looking around even in summer. One winters evening a group of people appeared at the north end of the roadway, it runs basically north to south or south to north, and walked towards me. There was a tall man in a black cape, Victorian clothing and a Victorian hat and about 20 people following him. Being nosey and anything but shy, I stopped him and asked the obvious. It was a ghost tour. I expressed my surprise. He said along towards one end of Orange Row where it turns a 90 degree bend south of me, about 100 yards from where I was, in the 16th, 17th and part way into the 18th Century there had been a gallows as at that time it was way outside the town boundary. The path as it then was, was known as Black Lands, on account not only of the gallows but the Black Thorn trees that grew there, and was renamed during early Victorian times To Orange Row when cheap poorly built houses were built which rapidly became slums as only the very poor lived there. He also said that those that had been hung, mainly for smuggling, were buried nearby but the actual places were never marked or if they were, it would be with a simple small wooden cross which wouldn't last long. When the small lock up industrial units were built along the western side of Orange Row, apparently workmen did find some remains which oddly enough I vaguely remember reading about in the local rag about 20 or even up to maybe 30 years ago. I did do a web search but it turned up nothing.

Weeks later when I saw the shop owner I said about the gallows, etc, and he said, yes, I know and he said again not to mention any of it to the staff. I asked him again about the person (?) I saw and he said would you go in there on your own at night and then he said, I have, and never again and that's why two people always lock up the premises after all the other stylists and staff have gone. I wanted to ask more. One day I will.
It could be a ghost, or it could be that the loft spaces of that row of buildings are all connected, with no fire walls to separate them.
That would make it easier for someone living in one of the upstairs flats to do a bit of 'urban exploration'.
 
Schools after hours do have an odd feeling about them. I used to go to school where my uncle taught so often waited behind to get a lift home with him, sometimes for an hour or more. All the bustle gone, just a few staff and cleaners. I wasn’t really supposed to walk around, just wait in his office, but I did a few times and it was unsettling. (no ghost stories associated with the place at all, just the silence after the rush I suppose).
I worked in some crap old schools in Birmingham, and my first job was at "the second worst school in South Birmingham) - imagine being so crap you're not even the best at being crap - which was a 1930s' building with two storeys on a housing estate of mainly privately owned 1930s' semis. (Later, taught in the inner city right after race riot, and several schools on rough council estate but something about this supposedly "naice" estate was far, far grimmer). It was my first job and I had no money therefore no car. As I couldn't carry 90 books home to mark, I had to stay after work most days to mark work. All colleagues would bugger off at 3:16 leaving just me, the caretaker and the Head in this grim building and Head was downstairs, I was upstairs - so totally alone.

Whilst there were no ghosts there was plenty of activity. Our criminal parents being chased by coppers down corridors, etc. (I once taught a lesson with 2 mothers fighting outside my door). After a while I just ignored the various incidents and got on with marking - unless I'd heard gunfire lol. Which I never did but we did find bullets in desks. (This was a primary school as well, for context).

It was creepy but I dunno how much of it was just the grimness of that specific place (I lived a ten minute walk away in a council house not on this estate which was nowhere near as awful!) and the fact you took your life in your hands sometimes walking out into the corridor, not knowing what might be waiting. We had a tonne of sex offender and criminal parents although as I say, it wasn't on the surface, a "rough" estate - but somehow it was far worse than any of the nearby council estates. And just the place generally was so depressing - pick-proof locks on everything that wasn't nailed down. Everywhere I walked I had a load of jangling keys just like a jail warder. You always felt like a target. No ghost stories there that I knew of, but you did sense the atmosphere of the past, the weight of the years of it being there. I'd have had a job for life and promotion within a year, had I stayed but I just couldn't.

Saw the ex-kids posting on a board about the school years later on Friends Reunited and whether they'd been there in the 1950s or during my time (1990s), they had affection for it but I just didn't get it - in my head, it had this grim, relentless feel to it - just the whole building and grounds. Couldn't even put my finger on what it was that freaked me out (I got quite used to the cop chases and creepy parents after a while - was more the actual place itself).
 
It could be a ghost, or it could be that the loft spaces of that row of buildings are all connected, with no fire walls to separate them.
That would make it easier for someone living in one of the upstairs flats to do a bit of 'urban exploration'.
It could have been a ghost and in the light of any other explanation, that's the one I'll go with. At the time I thought it was someone still inside the premises. It was only after I contacted the owner I thought, hang on a minute, it's all locked up, etc.....

As far as I know there are no connecting loft spaces. Also these are shops which all have burglar alarms. That was one of the things the shop owner said to me about, that a person inside the premises would activate the motion sensors and set the alarm off.

The properties along the street are early to mid 19th century. All have basements and some have bricked off passageways going from them. One shop has a basement comprised of several low ceiling rooms which goes most the way underneath and across the street. I window clean 16 shops along that street and have been window cleaning along (and around) there for over 15 years so I've got to know the layouts, and sometimes the histories, of a lot of the buildings. I've never heard ghosts being mentioned. Spooky, creepy, yes, but nothing specific.

The gallows were way before there was any buildings in the area at all.
 
When my oldest and her then fiance bought a house in the hills we went to visit it and it smelled kind of dank and she said " you don't like it do you?" and we kind of passed it off.
They hadn't moved in yet but were going to get it in order for when they were married and accidentally left on the heater for a few days.
It resulted in no more smell and a much more welcoming house.
 
Years ago in the 90's I was reading an article about the Sussex Areological Society and how in a field they'd discovered Roman remains that had been an open shrine to Minerva (Athene to the Greeks). If I remember correctly, the site of a shrine would have been carefully chosen according to the lay of the land, the trees and vegetation that grew there, and other factors, possibly laylines. Travellers going near the shrine would detour and offer some fruits or flowers, or incense, and go on their way.

As it wasn't that far from where I lived and as the coordinates were given and as I had a hand held Garmin GPS, I thought I'd go and investigate and ponder on that all those years ago people that went to the spot to offer their resects. It was in the middle of a field roughly half way between Stanmer and Westmeston a few miles outside Brighton on the Downs.

It was indeed in the middle of a field but to my surprise the actual site itself was a clump of trees with long and short grass and oddly with no gorse which grows everywhere on the Downs. In the warm sunshine I found a place to sit with my back against a tree and had my coffee and sandwiches. Fortunately the field was between crops. Whilst sitting there I thought to myself this is a really really peaceful spot with an exceptional feeling of calm and tranquility so much so I dozed off for about half an hour.

Then there's the opposite. Being a window cleaner there's some windows I clean at night. I don't do early morning - too many druggies and night clubbers off their nuts on booze and or drugs or both. One place I do is the 2 story back of a posh Hair Salon. It's along a 10 or 12ft wide road called Orange Row. In winter time especially the place gives me the creeps.

As an aside, I do the front as well. (It's along Gardner St then I do the backs along Orange Row.) The shop is always locked up, and padlocked, with genuine 19th Century grills over the main window and the only entrance, the front door. All the windows have internal grills as well. One night 3 or 4 years ago while doing the back I noticed a person looking out the 1st floor window and thought that's odd, as the place is locked shut as I just cleaned the front upper windows. A few seconds later the person had gone. I text'd the owner and he drove out to check no one was locked inside which he very much doubted. I waited out the front for him as he didn't live far away. When he arrived he said to come inside and check with him in case anyone had broken in which was highly unlikely as what would they steal? Hair dryers? We checked all four floors, basement, ground, 1st and 2nd. No one. He didn't dispute what I saw, which I thought odd, and I have no rational explanation. I saw what I saw. He told me to keep it to myself though and not mention it to any staff which made me think maybe........

Going back to the small roadway, Orange Row. I always get a very bad feeling along there. It doesn't worry me unduly. It's just not nice and I find myself constantly looking around even in summer. One winters evening a group of people appeared at the north end of the roadway, it runs basically north to south or south to north, and walked towards me. There was a tall man in a black cape, Victorian clothing and a Victorian hat and about 20 people following him. Being nosey and anything but shy, I stopped him and asked the obvious. It was a ghost tour. I expressed my surprise. He said along towards one end of Orange Row where it turns a 90 degree bend south of me, about 100 yards from where I was, in the 16th, 17th and part way into the 18th Century there had been a gallows as at that time it was way outside the town boundary. The path as it then was, was known as Black Lands, on account not only of the gallows but the Black Thorn trees that grew there, and was renamed during early Victorian times To Orange Row when cheap poorly built houses were built which rapidly became slums as only the very poor lived there. He also said that those that had been hung, mainly for smuggling, were buried nearby but the actual places were never marked or if they were, it would be with a simple small wooden cross which wouldn't last long. When the small lock up industrial units were built along the western side of Orange Row, apparently workmen did find some remains which oddly enough I vaguely remember reading about in the local rag about 20 or even up to maybe 30 years ago. I did do a web search but it turned up nothing.

Weeks later when I saw the shop owner I said about the gallows, etc, and he said, yes, I know and he said again not to mention any of it to the staff. I asked him again about the person (?) I saw and he said would you go in there on your own at night and then he said, I have, and never again and that's why two people always lock up the premises after all the other stylists and staff have gone. I wanted to ask more. One day I will.

According to MyHouseMyStreet, in 1792 the Orange Row area was simply known as “North Laine, First to Fourth Furlongs”, respectively:

Orange_Row1_980_2.jpg


The page contains no mention of hangings, gallows or gibbets.

Pre-1820, executions in Sussex were carried out on Horsham Common, then moved to Horsham Gaol or Lewes Prison:

https://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/explaces2.html

List of Sussex executions, 1735-1799:

https://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/sussex.html

(No mention of Brighton.)

maximus otter
 
According to MyHouseMyStreet, in 1792 the Orange Row area was simply known as “North Laine, First to Fourth Furlongs”, respectively:

Thanks for finding that. How interesting. That's my Sunday evening taken up.

The pictures make Orange Row look very clean and tidy. It's now plastered one end to the other with graffiti along with loads of equally graffiti plastered wheelie bins plus of course the ever present rubbish, both of which Brighton has become well known for.

Oddly enough, the picture half way down of the back of a flint worked building is the one where I saw the ghost/person. It's the 1st floor window on the left of the drain pipe.

The article does indeed make no mention of a gallows. I think the time period was sometime before Orange Row came into existence and I'm going by memory of a conversation from 3 or 4 years ago. When I asked the person taking the ghost tour how he knew he quoted the titles of two books about the history of Brighton. Both of which I meant to write down in my diary but I forgot to. I'm definitely going to have to look into this further.

I've seen the same ghost tour quite a few times since then at various places. He has a website and amongst the places listed he doesn't mention Orange Row but I do know it does go along Orange Row from what other people have said. I may go on the tour myself.

https://ghostwalkbrighton.co.uk/#tab-con-8

Also, the evening when I saw the ghost tour was months after I saw the ghost/person.
 
If one was to try and measure an old building, or a place that left people with bad vibes, it should be possible to gather data on various things and how they change over time:

Temperature
Air Pressure
Air Flow
Noise
Dimensions
Materials used in construction
Proximity to bodies of water
Proximity to roads and railways

etc.

These values could then be crunched by software written to look for intersections between "Bad vibes" and peaks or troughs of other values.

This was successfully done in a London Underground station, where feelings amongst staff of spookiness had a direct correlation with low frequency noises.
I do not have access to the data, but it was in a TV programme about London Underground ghosts.

But if we sense and measure these bad vibes also in a spiritual sense, then these may be beyond measurement for the conceivable future.

If enough people get a bad vibe, we just have to take their word for it.
 
If one was to try and measure an old building, or a place that left people with bad vibes, it should be possible to gather data on various things and how they change over time:

Temperature
Air Pressure
Air Flow
Noise
Dimensions
Materials used in construction
Proximity to bodies of water
Proximity to roads and railways

etc.

These values could then be crunched by software written to look for intersections between "Bad vibes" and peaks or troughs of other values.

This was successfully done in a London Underground station, where feelings amongst staff of spookiness had a direct correlation with low frequency noises.
I do not have access to the data, but it was in a TV programme about London Underground ghosts.

But if we sense and measure these bad vibes also in a spiritual sense, then these may be beyond measurement for the conceivable future.

If enough people get a bad vibe, we just have to take their word for it.
I agree it ought to be possible to gather data on this.

It's feasible to make a USB power widget for a phone to measure the first four, although as discussed elsewhere, a sensor for VLF audio noise is tricky and may need to be 'drum sized', although a very sensitive air pressure sensor might pick up the pressure variations of VLF audio noise - with careful filtering and amplification it may be possible to extract that, needs testing, but it could be a non-trivial thing ;)

A humidity sensor might be useful (as proximity to water even if noted, is wildly variable) and something that looked at electrical and magnetic fields (the latter especially can affect the brain's operation), both static and varying, and for the latter the frequency range may require a lot of measurements. Might be best to start with common stuff like 50Hz ranges, or given that the brain works at (mostly) <20Hz and down, focus on 20Hz or under initially.

Might be worth looking at CO sensors as well, as low level CO poisoning has been implicated in 'spooky experiences'. I imagine they're cheap, there's one the study wall here.

You'd then need to define 'spooky place', 'neutral place', 'happy place', interview or build a questionnaire for a boat-load of people, find a decent sample of each of the three 'places', measure stuff, collate a big wedge of data and start looking for interesting correlations.

This is probably why 'ghost hunters' just put flashy lights on sciency looking things and run around in the half-light going 'Wahhhhhhh it’s a ghost!', it's way easier!

NOT having a dig @Victory , it's just a way bigger problem than it first appears :)

:hoff:
 
If one was to try and measure an old building, or a place that left people with bad vibes, it should be possible to gather data on various things and how they change over time:

Temperature
Air Pressure
Air Flow
Noise
Dimensions
Materials used in construction
Proximity to bodies of water
Proximity to roads and railways

etc.

These values could then be crunched by software written to look for intersections between "Bad vibes" and peaks or troughs of other values.

This was successfully done in a London Underground station, where feelings amongst staff of spookiness had a direct correlation with low frequency noises.
I do not have access to the data, but it was in a TV programme about London Underground ghosts.

But if we sense and measure these bad vibes also in a spiritual sense, then these may be beyond measurement for the conceivable future.

If enough people get a bad vibe, we just have to take their word for it.
Richard Wiseman did some work like this in 2003, British Journal of Psychology. People seemed to respond to environmental conditions that made the location feel uncomfortable. It's a tough thing to study.
 
It would be impossible to do a blind, or double blind, experiment. The very act of asking subjects to identify "uncomfortable" locations would inevitably affect their responses.

Even if, for the sake of argument, there is an actual objective phenomenon, it would be extremely difficult to separate those reports that were "real" from those based on social factors, expectations, and suggestion.

Furthermore, it is conceivable that the various broadly similar reports arise from two or more causes.

This is therefore a truly Fortean phenomenon: a large number of apparently honest or sincere reports of something that is not easily susceptible to rigorous scientific investigation.

Science (in the loosest sense) may "explain away" the phenomenon, but not explain it with a consistent and testable theory.
 
It would be impossible to do a blind, or double blind, experiment. The very act of asking subjects to identify "uncomfortable" locations would inevitably affect their responses.

Even if, for the sake of argument, there is an actual objective phenomenon, it would be extremely difficult to separate those reports that were "real" from those based on social factors, expectations, and suggestion.

Furthermore, it is conceivable that the various broadly similar reports arise from two or more causes.

This is therefore a truly Fortean phenomenon: a large number of apparently honest or sincere reports of something that is not easily susceptible to rigorous scientific investigation.

Science (in the loosest sense) may "explain away" the phenomenon, but not explain it with a consistent and testable theory.
Yep, not a simple problem. Chris French did a study {The “Haunt” Project: An attempt to build a “haunted” room by manipulating complex electromagnetic fields and infrasound. Christopher C. French, Usman Haque, Rosie Bunton-Stasyshyn & Rob Davis} using ultrasound and electrical fields (although the study doesn't specify the electrical fields in any detail, which seems casual tbh).

Part of the issue is that to run any kind of psychology study one has to hide the true goal to avoid priming the subjects. As studying the 'spookiness' of the environment can cause fear and distress, it also necessary to warn the subjects as ethically yer have to...so the gig's up very often.

This experiment showed that people who believe in the paranormal are more likely to experience spooky stuff.
"The most parsimonious explanation for our findings is in terms of suggestibility."

Also,

a large number of apparently honest or sincere reports of something that is not easily susceptible to rigorous scientific investigation.
...the issue is that 'honest and sincere' is not reliable or consistent, as (as discussed elsewhere on the board) what we think we saw may or may not have been what was there, however honest one is about it.
 
It would be impossible to do a blind, or double blind, experiment. The very act of asking subjects to identify "uncomfortable" locations would inevitably affect their responses.
That is true, though what if these locations were sourced from existing threads such as this one, and books etc?
That would in theory reduce the power of suggestion.

@Mikefule wrote:

"Even if, for the sake of argument, there is an actual objective phenomenon, it would be extremely difficult to separate those reports that were "real" from those based on social factors, expectations, and suggestion."

I answer:

True.
But still worth a go, in my opinion.

If we add in the ideas @Coal has, and I make a lot of money, I will be up for funding the measuring instruments and then testing different places.
 
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