The Shipwrecks & Sunken Treasure Thread

[ramonmercado]

You sound like a Thor loser.

 

[hunck]

It's a little known fact that his teeth were more green than blue due to his high-in-seaweed diet & lack of dental hygiene.

 

[Tribble]

A missing German submarine said to have taken the defeated Nazi leaders to South America after the second world war has been discovered after 73 years.


The U-3523 – one of Hitler’s Type XXI submarines – was found off the coast of Denmark by researchers at the Sea War Museum Jutland working on a project to map and salvage wreckages in the North Sea according to Danish TV2 reported.

http://metro.co.uk/2018/04/18/nazi-...outh-america-discovered-near-denmark-7477100/

 

[maximus otter]

A missing German submarine said to have taken the defeated Nazi leaders to South America after the second world war has been discovered after 73 years.


The U-3523 – one of Hitler’s Type XXI submarines – was found off the coast of Denmark by researchers at the Sea War Museum Jutland working on a project to map and salvage wreckages in the North Sea according to Danish TV2 reported.

http://metro.co.uk/2018/04/18/nazi-...outh-america-discovered-near-denmark-7477100/

Any death in a sinking submarine is ghastly. To be lost with your entire crew 2 days before the war ended...

maximus otter

 

[EnolaGaia]

Spanish galleon with rumoured £1bn treasure hoard found, says Colombia's president

San José treasure could be the biggest haul ever found.

Here's a follow-up story providing more details on how searchers found this shipwreck and its treasures ...

How an Autonomous Vehicle Found the 'Holy Grail' of Shipwrecks
An autonomous vehicle was required to find the “holy grail of shipwrecks” that had up to $17 billion in gold, silver, and emeralds on it.

In a statement on Monday, the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) released fascinating new details about the recovery of the San José, a Spanish galleon ship that was sunk in 1708 during the War of Spanish Succession and was discovered three years ago off the coast of Cartagena, Colombia. According to the WHOI, which needed to obtain permission to divulge more details on the discovery from the Maritime Archaeology Consultants (MAC) and Colombian government, the ship was discovered 600 meters (1,968 feet) below the surface by an autonomous vehicle called the REMUS 6000.

The REMUS 6000 was deployed in June 2015 to scour a massive search area for the shipwreck. But due to time constraints, the vehicle was unable to complete the mission. In November 2015, WHOI and MAC went back to the areas they hadn’t searched and set the REMUS 6000 loose. After finding something on the sea floor, the REMUS 6000 descended to just 30 feet above the wreck and took photos of the San José’s bronze cannons, which were said to have engraved dolphins on them. ...

FULL STORY:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/autonomous-vehicle-found-apos-holy-155104738.html

http://fortune.com/2018/05/22/holy-grail-of-shipwrecks-remus-6000-automonous-underwater-vehicle/

 

[hunck]

WW1 bomb found near Teignmouth Pier

James Cunningham, 19, was diving with his uncle off the Devon coast when he swam past what he thought was a huge container.

After getting closer to the object, James quickly recognised it as something far more dangerous.

"At first I thought it possibly looked like some sort of container that was covered in rust. Only by looking a bit closer we then discovered that it was in fact a bomb.

We swam away post-haste and went back to shore to contact the police.

I had taken a bearing so I was able to go back out with the Navy this morning to show them exactly where it was."

Teignmouth sea front evacuated and bomb disposal unit arrive.

 

[Yithian]

This is a big 'un.

Wreck of Russian warship found, believed to hold gold worth $130 billion

Holly Ellyatt | @HollyEllyatt
Published 2 Hours Ago Updated 1 Hour AgoCNBC.com

A South Korean salvage team has reportedly discovered the wreck of a Russian warship that is believed to still contain 200 tons of gold bullion and coins worth 150 trillion won ($130 billion).

The Russian Imperial Navy cruiser Dmitrii Donskoi, which was sunk in a naval battle 113 years ago, was discovered at a depth of more than 1,400 feet about one mile off the South Korean island of Ulleungdo, according to The Daily Telegraph.

Continues with details of salvage company and plans for the money:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/18/wre...nd-believed-to-hold-gold-worth-130-billi.html

As a side note, Ullengdo is stunningly beautiful and I hope to visit the place next year. It's a three-hour ferry trip off the East coast, located, as you can see, a fair way off the peninsula.

[Pictures not mine]

 

[Yithian]

The BBC are a bit late, but they have more detail:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44876968

 

[EnolaGaia]

RE: The Dmitrii Donskoi (Anglicized spellings vary ... )

Has anyone seen any clues as to why this particular cruiser was alleged to have been carrying the 'treasure' (gold for payroll and expenses) for the Russian fleet?

I've been reviewing some accounts of the lengthy tragicomedic voyage that made Tsushima's outcome pretty much a foregone conclusion. The Dmitrii Donskoi didn't seem to have been afforded the sort of protection or close watching one would presume an admiral would accord the repository of his fleet's wealth.

For example, in the early going the Russian Baltic Fleet was involved in the Dogger Bank Incident (aka 'North Sea Incident'; 'Russian Outrage'), when the Russians shelled British fishing vessels (with a sinking and casualties). The Dmitrii Donskoi was one of the Russian vessels damaged by friendly fire. The cruiser hadn't been with the main body of the fleet. It had been dispatched with another cruiser to escort the auxiliary / repair ship Kamchatka, which had fallen behind.

If you're paranoid enough to see Japanese torpedo boats everywhere around you, wouldn't you be paranoid enough to dispatch any ship other than the one carrying your critical assets to escort the straggler?

Another thing ... The Chief Engineer for the Russian fleet was Evgenii Sigizmundovich Politovskii (again - Anglicized spellings vary ... ), who was killed at Tsushima. His posthumous book of letters written home:

From Libau to Tsushima
English translation; 1936

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49735
OR
https://books.google.com/books?id=k...AEInAEwFQ#v=onepage&q=Dmitrii Donskoi&f=false

... mentions the Dmitrii Donskoi as one of the more problem-prone vessels to which he was all too often dispatched to repair one or another breakdown. One doesn't get the impression that cruiser recommended itself for being entrusted with the fleet's wealth.

Antiquated in design, prone to rolling, lightly armed (and further hampered by what seems to have been atrocious Russian gunnery skills), and relatively small among the fleet's major vessels, the Dmitrii Donskoi doesn't seem an obvious candidate for hauling the group's 'treasure'. The only positive feature the cruiser offered was its relative speed when she was working well. It's not even clear the Dmitrii Donskoi had enough spare space to hold circa 200 or more tons of gold bullion.

Politovskii's letters make no mention of financial or payroll arrangements / transactions except oblique references to laborious re-coaling at foreign ports. He does mention (in the context of one extended re-coaling stop somewhere in Africa) that the fleet was visited by smaller Russian vessels delivering dispatches and that the crews were being paid in pounds.

Anyway ... These tidbits, combined with my inability to locate any clues pointing to the Dmitrii Donskoi as the purported treasure's carrier, leave me wondering why attention was focused on this particular ship.

 

[Tribble]

RE: The Dmitrii Donskoi (Anglicized spellings vary ... )

Has anyone seen any clues as to why this particular cruiser was alleged to have been carrying the 'treasure' (gold for payroll and expenses) for the Russian fleet?


Anyway ... These tidbits, combined with my inability to locate any clues pointing to the Dmitrii Donskoi as the purported treasure's carrier, leave me wondering why attention was focused on this particular ship.

If I'd just acquired 200 tons of gold and didn't want any awkward questions, I'd be saying it's on that rickety old ship that's now at the bottom of the sea too.

Wouldn't a fortune like that have a really big bureaucratic papertrail? Not just where the gold went - the logistics behind it - Security detail, vehicles for transporting it to the docks, warehouses?

 

[EnolaGaia]

If I'd just acquired 200 tons of gold and didn't want any awkward questions, I'd be saying it's on that rickety old ship that's now at the bottom of the sea too.

That description (rickety; old; doomed) could reasonably be applied to all the ships in the fleet.

The bit I find interesting is that the Dmitrii Donskoi seems to have been one of the ships most likely to he sent off from the main body of ships (scouting out front; escorting stragglers), as well as one of the ships most likely to suffer breakdowns.

The Dmitrii Donskoi gave a good account of itself at Tsushima. She engaged up to 6 Japanese vessels during the battle and survived, but was damaged enough to require scuttling. I wonder if it was the scuttling that gave the impression there was something significant / valuable about that particular ship.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Wouldn't a fortune like that have a really big bureaucratic papertrail? Not just where the gold went - the logistics behind it - Security detail, vehicles for transporting it to the docks, warehouses?

One would think so, but imperial Russia wasn't noted for its bureaucratic efficiency or effectiveness.

I've been pondering the general issue of carrying a 'treasure' along with a fleet headed to battle. In some ways it makes sense to haul a significant amount of 'mad money' to cover whatever expenses arise.

On the other hand, the number of Politovskii's references to diplomatic / bureaucratic contacts from back home (some of which involved the French acting as intermediaries) make me wonder why a large portion of the financial transactions during their major port stops couldn't have been handled via (e.g.) letters of credit or certifications from European banks. Politovskii refers to cables / telegraph messages at the major ports.

If the gold was intended to be delivered to Port Arthur, one has to wonder why it wasn't sent via rail (the Trans-Siberia route). Rail transport would have (in theory) been more secure and far more expeditious.

I'm increasingly baffled as to why the fleet would have been hauling such a treasure and / or why anyone believes they were doing so.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Some aspects of the Dmitrii Donskoi case have attracted the attention of South Korean authorities, who seem to suspect there's some scam underway. I don't know what the allusion to investing in 'virtual money' means here. The Seoul police chief's quoted allusion to investors as 'victims' implies proof or presumption of something wrong.

Seoul police investigate possible scam involving Russian shipwreck
Seoul police have launched an investigation team to look into an alleged investment scam related to the recent discovery of a 113-year-old Russian shipwreck.

The Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency will probe Shinil Group, a South Korean construction company that's attracted investors to fund a salvage project for the sunken ship.

The company has been accused of luring investors with a claim the ship contains 5,500 boxes of gold bars and coins worth billions.

It's also attracted people to invest in its virtual money with a pledge to return benefits from the "treasure ship," authorities said.

"We organized an investigation team devoted to this case," Seoul police chief Lee Ju-min told reporters in a press briefing Monday, Yonhap reported.

"We formed a 13-member team, including those who will track money flow. Right now, we are collecting testimonies from victims."

Shinil claimed last month it discovered the wreckage of the Russian naval cruiser Dmitri Donskoi, which sank off South Korea's eastern Ulleung Island during the Russo-Japanese war in 1905.

SOURCE: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-...am-involving-Russian-shipwreck/6421533540783/

 

[lordmongrove]

25 year hunt for a golden owl in France
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45005072

 

[EnolaGaia]

Some aspects of the Dmitrii Donskoi case have attracted the attention of South Korean authorities, who seem to suspect there's some scam underway. ...

Update ...

There's now no question the South Korean authorities are treating the situation as an entry point to (e.g.) fraud.

Sunken Warship 'Worth Billions in Gold' Is Likely Part of a Cryptocurrency Scam
In July, reports of a Russian warship that was discovered by a South Korean company and rumored to contain $132 billion worth of gold briefly made headlines and nudged stock investments. As it turns out, however, it was very likely a cryptocurrency scam, according to recent news reports. ...

FULL STORY: https://www.livescience.com/63327-russian-warship-cryptocurrency-scam.html

 

[Tribble]

The UK will investigate allegations that British World War Two wrecks in Asia have been targeted by scavengers, the defence secretary says.

Gavin Williamson said he was "very concerned" to hear claims that four shipwrecks off the Malaysian and Indonesian coasts had been looted.

The Mail on Sunday said HMS Tien Kwang, HMS Kuala, HMS Banka and SS Loch Ranza were targeted for their metal.

They are thought to be the graves of Royal Navy sailors and civilians.

It comes after six wrecks, including Royal Navy battleships HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse, were reported to have been damaged or destroyed by thieves.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45238158

 

[ramonmercado]

The UK will investigate allegations that British World War Two wrecks in Asia have been targeted by scavengers, the defence secretary says.

Gavin Williamson said he was "very concerned" to hear claims that four shipwrecks off the Malaysian and Indonesian coasts had been looted.

The Mail on Sunday said HMS Tien Kwang, HMS Kuala, HMS Banka and SS Loch Ranza were targeted for their metal.

They are thought to be the graves of Royal Navy sailors and civilians.

It comes after six wrecks, including Royal Navy battleships HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse, were reported to have been damaged or destroyed by thieves.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45238158

Bad news. Those shipwrecks are War Graves.

 

[EnolaGaia]

It looks as if they're zeroing in on Captain Cook's famed vessel (or what's left of it) ...

Captain Cook's HMS Endeavour might have been found in US
The hunt for the final resting place of Captain James Cook's HMS Endeavour may soon be over - in time for the 250th anniversary of its voyage to Australia.

The Endeavour, then known as Lord Sandwich II, was sunk with 12 other ships off Rhode Island, in the US, in August 1778, but no-one was sure where.

Now, following a 25-year archaeological study of the area, the search has been narrowed to just "one or two" sites.

Experts are now hopeful it will be definitively identified by 2020.

That would be just in time for the anniversary of Capt Cook arriving in Australia, following a two-year voyage of discovery which initially set out from Plymouth, England.

FULL STORY: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45580057

 

[Yithian]

A few more details here:

Notably the projected progress:

In a statement, the Rhode Island Marine Archeology Project (RIMAP) said it would release more details and a 3D mockup of a prospective wreck site on September 21, with detailed examinations expected to begin early next year.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/captain-cook-endeavour-boat-intl/index.html

 

[ramonmercado]

Oldest shipwreck shows that artists accurately depicted ships of that era

The world’s oldest intact shipwreck, complete with mast, rudders and rowing benches, has been found at the bottom of the Black Sea where it has been lying for more than 2,400 years.

The 23-metre merchant vessel was found lying on its side by a remote-controlled submarine. British scientists from the Black Sea Maritime Archaeological Project, which found the wreck, said its location — about 50 miles off the coast of Bulgaria — revealed how far from shore ancient Greek traders ventured.

It also showed the accuracy of the Siren Painter, an ancient Greek who decorated wine vessels, including one now in the British Museum showing Odysseus tied to the mast of a remarkably similar ship.

Rowing benches lying in the wreck are also similar to those on which Odysseus’s sailors sat with their ears blocked with wax so they could not hear the enchanting song of bird-women luring them to an island’s rocky coast.

“Nobody has ever known how accurate the representation on the Siren Vase was and whether the artist was making it up or drawing what he saw,” said Jon Adams, professor of archaeology at the University of Southampton and chief scientist of the team that found the wreck.

“Now we see archaeological evidence showing a ship very close in detail, even down to the shape of the rudder blade. The artist must have been familiar with ships.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/odysseus-find-is-a-voyage-back-in-time-3nlrr7lsh

 

[Mythopoeika]

It's amazing. So well preserved. I hope they can get it to shore intact.

 

[Coal]

OLdest shipwreck shows that artists accurately depicted ships of that era

The world’s oldest intact shipwreck, complete with mast, rudders and rowing benches, has been found at the bottom of the Black Sea where it has been lying for more than 2,400 years.

The 23-metre merchant vessel was found lying on its side by a remote-controlled submarine. British scientists from the Black Sea Maritime Archaeological Project, which found the wreck, said its location — about 50 miles off the coast of Bulgaria — revealed how far from shore ancient Greek traders ventured.

It also showed the accuracy of the Siren Painter, an ancient Greek who decorated wine vessels, including one now in the British Museum showing Odysseus tied to the mast of a remarkably similar ship.

Rowing benches lying in the wreck are also similar to those on which Odysseus’s sailors sat with their ears blocked with wax so they could not hear the enchanting song of bird-women luring them to an island’s rocky coast.

“Nobody has ever known how accurate the representation on the Siren Vase was and whether the artist was making it up or drawing what he saw,” said Jon Adams, professor of archaeology at the University of Southampton and chief scientist of the team that found the wreck.

“Now we see archaeological evidence showing a ship very close in detail, even down to the shape of the rudder blade. The artist must have been familiar with ships.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/odysseus-find-is-a-voyage-back-in-time-3nlrr7lsh

Awesome.

 

[EnolaGaia]

The wreck of John Paul Jones' Bonhomme Richard has finally been located.

The "I Have Not Yet Begun To Fight" Shipwreck Was Just Rediscovered, 239 Years Later
One of America’s very first warships, and a vessel that would become the namesake of a distinguished line of warships, was just discovered in waters off the United Kingdom.

The Bonhomme Richard, commanded at the time by Captain John Paul Jones, was sunk during a duel with two Royal Navy warships during the Revolutionary War. The ship, from which Jones uttered his famous line, “I have not yet begun to fight,” was found literally yards from shore. ...

Over the years numerous American search crews have gone looking for the Bonhomme Richard, but none of them were successful. The Yorkshire Post, a publication located near where the wreck was found, estimates that $200 million has been spent locating the sunken warship. Bruce Blackburn, the head of the maritime archaeology firm that found the wreck, told the Post, “You can walk out onto the wreck from the shore. You can literally go to the beach and look in the water and see where it is. And you can go on the cliffs and look down on it and see the shadow’s outline.” ...

FULL STORY: https://news.yahoo.com/not-yet-begun-fight-shipwreck-202100138.html

 

[Tribble]

On the 19th November 1918, the Steamship Per Brahe, a somewhat overloaded passenger ferry/cargoship on Lake Vättern in Sweden, sank in a storm. All 24 on board died (the ship itself was recovered a few years later). Amongst the cargo was a load of sewing machines.
Skip to the present day, and a diver found one of the sewing machines and it's now in a museum not far from where it was taken on board.

Might need a little bit of restoration and WD40 to get it working again.

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=97&artikel=7113568

 

[Tribble]

The wreck of a World War One German submarine is gradually resurfacing on a beach in northern France after decades of being buried in the sand.

Shifting sand off Wissant, near Calais, is exposing the remains of the UC-61 which was stranded there in July 1917.

The crew flooded the vessel and abandoned it and by the 1930s the submarine had largely been buried.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46846988

 

[escargot]

On the 19th November 1918, the Steamship Per Brahe, a somewhat overloaded passenger ferry/cargoship on Lake Vättern in Sweden, sank in a storm. All 24 on board died (the ship itself was recovered a few years later). Amongst the cargo was a load of sewing machines.
Skip to the present day, and a diver found one of the sewing machines and it's now in a museum not far from where it was taken on board.

Might need a little bit of restoration and WD40 to get it working again.
https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=97&artikel=7113568

That's a genuine Singer. You could probably still get parts for it. I could run you up some pants to wear when you're up late surfing the'net.

 

[Tribble]

That's a genuine Singer. You could probably still get parts for it. I could run you up some pants to wear when you're up late surfing the'net.

More likely a locally-produced Husqvarna machine, which were Singer copies.

https://sewalot.com/husqvarna_sewing_machines.htm

And thanks for the nocturnal-pants offer!

 

[Coal]

And thanks for the nocturnal-pants offer!

That's not a sentence I thought I'd see today.

 

[ramonmercado]

Even if they find the sunken ships the gold may not be there but they have found an anchor.

A TANTALIZING CLUE that may help solve the 500-year-old mystery around the “lost fleet” of Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés has been found in the Gulf of Mexico, according to an international team of underwater archaeologists with the Lost Ships of Cortés project.

An iron anchor consistent with the type carried by European ships in the early 16th century has been discovered off the coast of Villa Rica de la Vera Cruz, a site some 50 miles north of modern Veracruz, where Cortés founded a settlement in 1519. While researchers cannot say at this time that the anchor conclusively belongs to one of the ships of the notorious conquistador, it provides the first compelling clue to the location of the wrecked vessels. ...

When members of Cortés’ crew rebelled against his rule and attempted to seize a ship to sail back to Cuba, the conquistador ordered all 10 remaining ships from his original fleet (an 11th had been sent back to Spain to notify the king) scuttled at Villa Rica de la Vera Cruz in July of the same year. ...

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...ditorial::add=History_20190114::rid=641112160

 

[EnolaGaia]

Now that Franklin's shipwrecks have been discovered in the Arctic, there's interest in locating Shackleton's shipwreck at the other end of the planet ...

Antarctic Weddell expedition targets Shackleton's lost ship
A scientific expedition in the Antarctic is set to depart its current location to go in search of Sir Ernest Shackleton's lost ship.

The team has been investigating the Larsen C Ice Shelf and the continent's biggest iceberg, known as A68.

And this puts it just a few hundred km from the last recorded position of the famous British explorer's vessel, the Endurance. ...

Endurance should be resting on the ocean floor, some 3,000m down.

The Weddell Sea Expedition 2019 team wants to grab the chance of making the discovery, using robotic submersibles. ...

But the group will have a tough job reaching the location, concedes chief scientist Prof Julian Dowdeswell. ...

The team has a very good idea of where the Endurance should be. ...

If Prof Dowdeswell's ice-breaker, the SA Agulhas II, can get reasonably close - it will be game-on. ...

FULL STORY: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47000896