The Sinking Of The Kursk

naitaka

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The attempt to raise the sunken Russian submarine Kursk has renewed discussion about what might have happened.

Was another sub or ship involved? Did a sailor go berserk? Were the Russians testing a secret weapon? Why were so many officers on board?

Any good conspiracy stories going around?

Here's a discussion of the 'secret weapon' angle:
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/kursk.html
 
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Anonymous

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I think it is fairly simple. It got hit by another sub during a routine mission. But since it had nuclear warheads on board the russians didn´t want anyone to know. And they certainly didn´t like the idea of others entering their best sub.
 

NilesCalder

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I recall a recent TV programme (Horizon I think) that put forward the theory that the Kursk was due to test a new type of missle which malfunctioned (it's engine was started while it was still in its cradle and it 'burst') and set fire to the torpedo room. A few minutes later the other torpedoes "cooked off" and exploded. Apparently there is a sonar chart that shows the first detonation followed by the main one a few minutes later.

Niles
 

Xeyes

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It might be worth pointing out though not entirely relevant to the Kursk incident that Although the Western military were and possibly are behind in these advanced "Torpedos" The Americans have actually got their test craft to go Supersonic underwater which is alot faster than concorde flies through the air! Unfortunately everyone is having endless fun and problems steering them or so they say. Also the Physics for propelling them do not add up yet as they seem to defeat recognised interpretations of Friction and possibly inertia. Anyone who needs to find out more just go through the Usual Suspects on the web.
 

rynner2

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Hey, Xeno, this is 'not on'. Who are the Usual Suspects? Where on the web do we find this information? If you know, pass it on. Forteans are only interested inhalf-baked rumours as half-baked rumours (eg FOAF tales, etc)

We're looking for some small degree of enlightenment here, not more mystification. The world itself is mysterious enough.
 

Xeyes

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Hello Again.
Sorry about the air of mystery with the "usual suspects" thing, I guess I was tired, anyway I have not got the specific links in my history folder anymore but certainly check out Scientific american, Popular science and mechanics and New Scientist Because i remeber reading the Articles. Or cut to the chase and search under Supercavitation, Browns gas and VA111 Skvall? (Think I got that right) Of course Xref them with Torpedo might help.

Hope that helps . I should still have the New Scientist article somewhere if I manage to tidy up I might find it.
 
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Anonymous

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Niles Calder said:
I recall a recent TV programme (Horizon I think) that put forward the theory that the Kursk was due to test a new type of missle which malfunctioned (it's engine was started while it was still in its cradle and it 'burst') and set fire to the torpedo room. A few minutes later the other torpedoes "cooked off" and exploded. Apparently there is a sonar chart that shows the first detonation followed by the main one a few minutes later.

Niles
Two days after the Kursk sank i happened to be chatting to a British sub guy in our car park (in contrevention of the officel secrets act no doubt!) And he told exactly the same story as Horizon... It seems the British Navy knew what happened/ or knew the cover story very erly!...
 
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Anonymous

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I know there are some older threads about this, but they've been inactive for a while and this is about a new theory. I watched Horizon tonight and they're now saying that the accusation that the Kursk collided with an American sub has lost out to a new theory. Apparently, Russian torpedoes used a chemical called HTP as a oxidant for their torpedo engines. If a torpedo is accidentally started while inside the sub the engine over revs, pressure builds up and the pipes carrying HTP burst. On contact with certain metals HTP reacts to produce steam and oxygen. The pressure builds up inside the torpedo casing and finally bursts it.

They're putting this forward as the most likely explanation as British seismologists (sp?) say that the detected a much smaller explosion before the Kursk's torpedoes detonated. The first signal the picked up had a similar signature to the one caused by the torpedo's detonation, so they think it must have been an explosion, too.

The Russians have removed the HTP powered torpedoes from service and now say that they too think it was an explosion in the torpedo room that sank the Kursk. However;

The Russians are refusing to raise the front section of the Kursk (where the explosion happened) so it cannot be examined.

And there was an satellite image of what could be an American sub at a Norwegian base (close to where the sinking took place) taken by the Russians six days after the Kursk sank. An American naval analyst said there were two 'innocent' explanations for this: i) the sub was landing Norwegian intelligence officers who had been observing the Russian excersize or ii) it was landing computer tapes of elcectronic data obtained by the Americans. I think the second is unlikely as there is no reason for the sub to dock only to offload inforamtion.

The Russians used HTP in their torpedoes for 40 years without incident, although it is now being blamed for the sinking of the British sub 'Sidon' in the 1960s.
 

stu neville

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I saw this one when it first aired last year - it's well worth it. This is an updated edition , so I'll try and catch it again. In this case cock-up seems just as likely as conspiracy: either can guarantee governmental silence.
 
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Anonymous

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Those Russians tried blaming everyone when it first happened and now it seems they've finally given in. I think the real conspiracy lie with that sub photographed by the russians shortly after the kursk disaster. I wouldnt be surprised if it was a Russian sub set up to make it look like the kursk sank as a result of a colition with a US sub.
 

stu neville

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Ah! But has anyone else seen "The Abyss"?

Maybe that's what they're hiding. It would also explain where Ed Harris has gone.
 

SoundDust

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There is a summary and a transcript available of Horizon's Kursk program on the BBC website: Here
 

Yithian

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What's going down?

As a temporary addendum to this thread its well worth noting that the issue is far from resolved, with calls for the inquest to be re-opened:

Russia marks Kursk anniversary
By Sarah Rainsford
BBC correspondent in Moscow

Memorial services are to be held in towns around Russia on Tuesday to mark three years since the loss of the Kursk.

A total of 118 sailors died when the nuclear submarine sank during exercises in the Barents Sea.

The official inquiry closed more than a year ago, but this week some of the families of the crew will petition the prosecutor to re-open the case.

A new memorial in St Petersburg will mark also mark the years since the sinking.

There are now 32 new headstones in the Serafimov cemetery that mark the graves of some of the crew.

They were victims of the worst naval disaster in Russia's peacetime history.

But on one gravestone, the date of death is missing.

'Cover-up'

Dmitry Kolesnikov became famous for the note that was found on his body, when it was recovered from the wreck.

The note revealed that 23 crewmen remained alive, hours after the submarine sank.

Many believe they might have been saved, had the Russian navy reacted in time.

Despite an official enquiry, Dmitry's parents still have questions. And they are not alone.

Later this week, 40 families will petition the prosecutor to re-open the Kursk inquiry.

Many suspect a cover-up.

The relatives say they are not looking for more compensation. They just want to know the truth.


Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3142987.stm
 

rynner2

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Bump! 2 identically named threads merged.
 

wembley8

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The Shkval is certainly real and underwater supercavitation works - NewSci ran a piece a couple of years back.

Actually it'srather faster than 200 knots as I recall. The US has an experimental small-calibre supercavitating round for exploding mines underwater.

However, there are real limits to the technology and a guided torpedo using this technology is highly unlikely (basically, there's no way of steering it). In any case, from what I have seen the evidence points of a different and slightly less exciting type of torpedo using dodgy propellant as the source of the problem.

Leave the bad fiction to Clancy.:cool:
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Just watched the Luc Besson (Europacorp - The French Hollywood) movie "Kursk, the Last Mission".

Focuses on the camaraderie of the doomed crew, the suffering of their wives and the Soviet era mentality that refused any foreign assistance until it was too late.

Whilst we all know what's going to happen, it was still a poignant, claustrophobic and nerve-wracking piece of cinema.

It was the final mission for legendary actor Max Von Sydow too, as the elderly and guilt-ridden Admiral Vitaly Petrenko.

Currently free to stream on Netflix.
 
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GNC

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Was that the film that had pressure exerted on it by Moscow not to mention Putin's key role in the disaster? Or was that a different disaster I'm getting mixed up with?
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Was that the film that had pressure exerted on it by Moscow not to mention Putin's key role in the disaster? Or was that a different disaster I'm getting mixed up with?
According to Wiki, the original script had several scenes featuring Putin "sympathetically portrayed".
For whatever reason, Europacorp decided to cut those scenes before an actor to play Putin was cast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_(film)
 

GNC

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The way I heard it, he did not want any film or media linking him to the disaster whatsoever, so put pressure on the studio to remove him from the movie.
 
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