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The Stork: A (Persecuted) Symbol Of Christianity?

Squail

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
108
Was not quite sure whether to post this here, or in the "Fortean Fauna" sub-forum: plumped for "Religions & Cults", because the issue about which I'm curious is basically a religion-related one.

When recently looking-up something which I dimly remembered, about the last-recorded instance (very recent reintroductions, aside) of white storks' breeding in the British Isles (in 1416 -- of all places, on the roof of St. Giles's Cathedral in Edinburgh): Google cast up a perplexing reference, in an item by an organisation calling itself the "Cameron Bespolka Trust -- connecting young people with nature". The piece in question tells of the white stork's being long extinct in Britain (last nesting in 1416, as above) due to hunting, and habitat loss (the bird's characteristic watery habitats having been ongoingly reduced in area, for centuries past); and -- the strange thing, following -- a contributing factor to its extinction having been "persecution (as a symbol of Christianity)".

My initial reaction was, "this has got to be rubbish". I have never seen any reference anywhere, to storks -- of any kind -- being a symbol of Christianity. Even if this type of bird had been seen as such by some people in some places: per my understanding, Christianity had been very firmly in the saddle in the British Isles for many centuries prior to the 15th. Stubborn adherents of other religions -- one would reckon from the context: older, pagan ones -- would in order to survive at all, have had to keep a very low profile. Even if for reasons of their own, they identified storks with Christianity and were thus hostile to the creatures: doing enough stork-persecuting to have any effect on the birds' numbers, would surely have directed the Church's attention to themselves, with disastrous consequences.

Would anyone know: is there some crumb of accuracy in any of the foregoing "storks a Christian symbol and thus -- 'way back when' -- persecuted in Britain to a significant extent, by hostile other-religion adherents" -- or am I right in my feeling that here anyway, the Cameron Bespolka Trust is "full of it"?
 
The only thing I've heard storks being symbolic of are newborn babies ("Brought by the stork"), which sounds more pagan than Christian.
 
Found this after a brief search:

Stork Christian symbol

Even if it was a Catholic symbol, I doubt protestants would have gone after the actual bird during the Reformation.
 
Archaeologically, stork bones are usually thought to be the remains of a food source. That and the raw material for flutes.

The avian symbol for The Church, which is frequent in medieval art, is the pelican. Never heard of pelicans being hated because of the reformation.

A searches on themes of Calvin, Luther and Storks ought to be informative. In english and the original languages :)


Edit to add, I've just asked the Cameron Bespolka Trust.
 
Catholic?
Christian?
Pagan?
Can't really tell which is Stork from Eider one!
 
Found this after a brief search:

Stork Christian symbol

Even if it was a Catholic symbol, I doubt protestants would have gone after the actual bird during the Reformation.
Archaeologically, stork bones are usually thought to be the remains of a food source. That and the raw material for flutes.

The avian symbol for The Church, which is frequent in medieval art, is the pelican. Never heard of pelicans being hated because of the reformation.

A searches on themes of Calvin, Luther and Storks ought to be informative. In english and the original languages :)


Edit to add, I've just asked the Cameron Bespolka Trust.

Interesting to learn from SimonBurchell's link, about the stork in fact being -- maybe not in a highly-publicised way -- a Christian symbol of kindness (devotion to its young -- I'd been aware of, as per Frideswide's post, the pelican in that slot: supposedly nourishing its young with drops of its own blood).

If I rightly comprehend the item I cite from the Cameron Bespolka Trust -- they seem to be suggesting that the white stork had vanished from Great Britain by about 1400: the Edinburgh 1416 happening being the last recorded instance of its nesting in the island -- thus, well before the Reformation and Protestantism showed up. Which has one wondering: if disaffected adherents of something other than the dominant Catholic religion had, because of religion-related stuff, hated storks so much that their killings of them had played a significant part in extirpating the species from Britain -- who on earth were these people, and how was the Catholic Church not well aware of them; and active and energetic in putting them down? (Frideswide, thanks -- it will be interesting to find if the C.B. Trust can come up with something that makes any sense.)

With Protestants, when they came into being, not obviously (so far as we know to date) seeming to have had anything against storks (or pelicans !) -- maybe this is an indication that just occasionally, people can be sane about things... and one suspects that storks are just, in themselves, lovable creatures. My impression has always been that in European countries to which white storks come in summer to breed -- people of whatever flavour of religion, or none, generally like them, and often try to set up elevated nesting-places for them.
 
You mean the stork did not bring me ?

Next you will be telling me Santa Clause is not real !

According to Wikipedia, stork folklore covers the Americas, Africa, Middle East, and Europe.

Storks are white which means purity.

In Greece, Hera was jealous of the beautiful Queen Gerana and made her into stork, and Gerana was always trying to get her baby back from Hera.

In Egypt storks and fertility go hand in hand.

In Norse mythology, storks meant a tight family group.

In Germany a stork nesting on the roof meant good luck and good fertility.

Hans Christian Andersen wrote the fable The Storks.

In Victorian England, sex and birth were never discussed so the Stork was an easy way out of a sex talk.

That was ironic since sex is what most people engage into doing.
 
More on "white storks and religion"; plus a bit of more-general stork stuff -- have found on the Net, a piece which includes some interesting material re the religious angle. I'm hopeless, unfortunately, at doing links: tried to do so elsewhere for this item, and failed. Need to give laborious "pointers": Google "white stork traditions of protection". On "page 3" delivered by this, approx. ten "hits" down: item headed "The Pious Bird: Storks in Myth and Memory in Lithuania". In English -- seemingly by a Lithuanian writer resident in that country; quite lengthy, including various natural-history, and human-lore, material on the topic.

The "bringing babies" thing is of course mentioned. And -- in ancient Egypt, the stork represented the ba, the human soul. Chiming in with SimonBurchell up-thread: storks are often associated with family -- the Hebrew word for stork, chasidah, having connotations of "kind mother". The name in English, derives from the Greek word storge = familial love. It has been observed from way back, that storks care devotedly for their young -- and seemingly, also care for old members of the flock. For early Christians, the stork became an emblem of a chaste marriage -- this association appearing well into the 17th century.

In pagan times, Lithuanian tribes (and Lithuania was the last region of Europe to be Christianised -- late 14th century -- Teutonic Knights and all that) would celebrate the new year, round about the day -- in those parts, very near the end of March -- when the storks arrive from Africa. The first sight of a stork determined the fate of the year ahead. If the stork was flying, the year would be fruitful, students would pass their examinations (sic), and unmarried girls would find husbands. If the stork was on the ground, however, the year would be of ill fate.

With the notion upthread, from the Cameron Bespolka Trust -- am wondering, Frideswide, whether you heard anything from them -- about long-ago pagans persecuting storks as emblems of Christianity; one would think that if that had ever happened to a significant degree, it would have been in Lithuania, as part of the locals' long and fierce resistance to having Catholic Christianity foisted on them by their neighbours -- but we read here that these pagans held storks in high regard, and made them part of their own religion. (Up to this day, the Lithuanians -- like their Polish neighbours -- greatly love their storks: these two countries are nowadays Europe's best for summering-and-breeding numbers of the birds.) Strong indication seen: that the C.B. Trust's pagans-persecuting-storks thing, whether re the British Isles or elsewhere, is bunkum.

I've made a post on a forum dedicated to ornithology and "birding" in general, enquiring re the theme of white storks regularly visiting Britain, if they ever did; and re this unlikely-seeming scenario of their having been persecuted by long-ago pagans, because... The replies I got were strictly natural-history-oriented, not touching on the religious aspect -- fair enough; these people are birders, not scholars of religion. They were on the whole divided between pointing out that most-of-a-millennium ago, and earlier, there were no ornithologists or field guides: white storks could well have been regular summer visitors to Britain, if in smallish numbers -- if people recognised and identified them as anything then, or were even interested, there's been no written evidence of this to come down to us: it's a question which there would seem to be no way of answering. Others disagree, saying that people long ago may have been mostly illiterate, but they weren't idiots -- there's evidence to suggest that by and large, they had a pretty good handle on what wildlife was around where they lived: if way back, the white stork had been a regular visitor to this country, there would be evidence from then, available to us; which there isn't. I tend to feel that common sense would support this latter view.
 
More on "white storks and religion"; plus a bit of more-general stork stuff -- have found on the Net, a piece which includes some interesting material re the religious angle. I'm hopeless, unfortunately, at doing links: tried to do so elsewhere for this item, and failed. Need to give laborious "pointers": Google "white stork traditions of protection". On "page 3" delivered by this, approx. ten "hits" down: item headed "The Pious Bird: Storks in Myth and Memory in Lithuania". In English -- seemingly by a Lithuanian writer resident in that country; quite lengthy, including various natural-history, and human-lore, material on the topic.

The "bringing babies" thing is of course mentioned. And -- in ancient Egypt, the stork represented the ba, the human soul. Chiming in with SimonBurchell up-thread: storks are often associated with family -- the Hebrew word for stork, chasidah, having connotations of "kind mother". The name in English, derives from the Greek word storge = familial love. It has been observed from way back, that storks care devotedly for their young -- and seemingly, also care for old members of the flock. For early Christians, the stork became an emblem of a chaste marriage -- this association appearing well into the 17th century.

In pagan times, Lithuanian tribes (and Lithuania was the last region of Europe to be Christianised -- late 14th century -- Teutonic Knights and all that) would celebrate the new year, round about the day -- in those parts, very near the end of March -- when the storks arrive from Africa. The first sight of a stork determined the fate of the year ahead. If the stork was flying, the year would be fruitful, students would pass their examinations (sic), and unmarried girls would find husbands. If the stork was on the ground, however, the year would be of ill fate.

With the notion upthread, from the Cameron Bespolka Trust -- am wondering, Frideswide, whether you heard anything from them -- about long-ago pagans persecuting storks as emblems of Christianity; one would think that if that had ever happened to a significant degree, it would have been in Lithuania, as part of the locals' long and fierce resistance to having Catholic Christianity foisted on them by their neighbours -- but we read here that these pagans held storks in high regard, and made them part of their own religion. (Up to this day, the Lithuanians -- like their Polish neighbours -- greatly love their storks: these two countries are nowadays Europe's best for summering-and-breeding numbers of the birds.) Strong indication seen: that the C.B. Trust's pagans-persecuting-storks thing, whether re the British Isles or elsewhere, is bunkum.

I've made a post on a forum dedicated to ornithology and "birding" in general, enquiring re the theme of white storks regularly visiting Britain, if they ever did; and re this unlikely-seeming scenario of their having been persecuted by long-ago pagans, because... The replies I got were strictly natural-history-oriented, not touching on the religious aspect -- fair enough; these people are birders, not scholars of religion. They were on the whole divided between pointing out that most-of-a-millennium ago, and earlier, there were no ornithologists or field guides: white storks could well have been regular summer visitors to Britain, if in smallish numbers -- if people recognised and identified them as anything then, or were even interested, there's been no written evidence of this to come down to us: it's a question which there would seem to be no way of answering. Others disagree, saying that people long ago may have been mostly illiterate, but they weren't idiots -- there's evidence to suggest that by and large, they had a pretty good handle on what wildlife was around where they lived: if way back, the white stork had been a regular visitor to this country, there would be evidence from then, available to us; which there isn't. I tend to feel that common sense would support this latter view.
This can be found at https://przekroj.pl/en/culture/the-pious-bird-wailana-kalama
 
gordonrutter -- many thanks. (I am pretty much in the "dear sir, you are too stupid to own a computer; we suggest you put it back in its box and send it back to whoever you bought it from" bracket :mad: . )
 
gordonrutter -- many thanks. (I am pretty much in the "dear sir, you are too stupid to own a computer; we suggest you put it back in its box and send it back to whoever you bought it from" bracket :mad: . )
No! no, no. . . if at first you don't succeed, then keep on trying!
 
Squail, you have a point; people might not know about birds but likely they do notice ones that are unfamiliar.

Cecelia Fiennes describes a bird on Lundy as being more like an aquatic animal, -the Great auk? (She did not visit Lundy but her Grandfather owned the island)
 

Perhaps begs the question (think I'm using that expression in correct mode) as to whether the species were here in the first place (opinions seem divided), to be "re"-introduced ...

A black stork was seen a couple of times over southeast Kent in mid July. It was probably lost.

Black stork (Ciconia nigra) does basically, similarly to its much more numerous White counterpart. Poland has both kinds, in season -- to air my great command of the Polish tongue (not !) -- bocian czarny, and bocian bialy, respectively.

Squail, you have a point; people might not know about birds but likely they do notice ones that are unfamiliar.

Cecelia Fiennes describes a bird on Lundy as being more like an aquatic animal, -the Great auk? (She did not visit Lundy but her Grandfather owned the island)

Could indeed have been a Great Auk: Celia lived over the 17th / 18th century divide, and the Great Auk lingered on before final extinction, till the mid-19th century -- including in the British Isles.

ETA: in "birding world", Lundy renownedly a great place for exotic vagrants from afar -- why not a Great Auk, when the species still existed?
 
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