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The UFO Community Still Believes—And Science Is Starting To Listen

Some theories suggest that those 'lights' are an unavoidable consequence of the propulsion system, whatever it may be. Any particle that has to slow down from its previous speed to the local speed of light in the current medium will emit Cherenkov radiation, and black holes emit Hawking radiation; also any machine that is less than 100% efficient (which is all of them) will emit waste heat. Every plausible and semi-plausible method of propulsion I know of emits some sort of radiation.
 
I picture panspermia to be a bit like bird shit for astronauts - decreed lucky if it lands on your helmet or shoulder (but still annoying).
 
Think this might fit in here.

Manly Hall Society
8.28K subscribers

Rare audio recording of Manly P. Hall's lecture on Dr. Carl Jung's book about the flying saucer phenomenon. Recorded in Los Angeles on August 30, 1959.

Original Title: "Flying Saucers: An Analysis of Jung's Recent Book" Please Note:

The audio quality is rough at first, but clears up dramatically after about 6 minutes.

I found this lecture really thought-provoking.
 
eburacum said:
The triangles in the Belgian flap were hoaxes, so you can forget about them. I don't think anyone has ever seen a real triangle, but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
Click to expand...

I have, the first time I posted this experience was in 2010.

On Saturday July 3rd, 1999.

I went to my friends house for my birthday BBQ/party. There was a lot of people including children.

It has pretty much become a yearly ritual, since we all got tired of the bar scene. I think the last time we went to the "club" was for my thirtieth.

This particular friend has two sons who at that time were age 11 and 13.

At around midnight everyone was leaving except two friends of the boys who decided they wanted to sleep over.

I decided to stay a little longer because they were going to be showing a re-run of Keeping Up Appearances on PBS. My friend and I really liked that show and it was going to air at 12:30am.

The boys were in the basement playing video games and making a lot of noises like, "Look out!'; "Get it!'; "YEAH!"... obviously engrossed in the game they were playing.

At 12:20am, the house fell silent.

I looked over at my friend, her head was bowed and her eyes were closed. I remember thinking it was a little strange but, then my thoughts turned to going home.

I got my stuff together and then I had to wake her because I needed to make sure she locked the door behind me. She was apologetic and was trying to get me to stay but, I said it was okay I'll just watch it at home.

As I walked down the pathway to my car out front, I remember that the house lights went out immediately. That also struck me as strange because I had lived there (rented the basement suite) for three years. Sandy's nightly routine involved a bath and then making sure all kids were tucked in bed before she went to bed. Every Night.

I got in the car and started it up. The route was, I had to go about three houses down, make a left, go about four houses down, make another left and then go to the end of the block to get to the main street I needed to exit the neighborhood.

As I made my second left, I saw a bright orange light behind a large spruce tree. I surmised that it was a harvest moon. Then something white flashed in front of my headlights and so I immediately slammed on the brakes. There were about 15-20 people standing in the middle of the road starring up at the harvest moon! It really scared me. You know that kind of scare that makes you angry? So, I rolled down my window and yelled: "What the hell? Let's all stand in the middle of the road!"

They didn't say anything, they just parted down the middle enough so that I could drive through. I of course drove very slowly through the crowd and then when they were behind me, I looked in the rear view mirror. That's when I noticed that the moon was in the sky - behind me.

When I got to the stop sign at the corner, which only took 5 seconds, there it was! To my left, in the sky. An aircraft the size of a football field. It was the same shape as a billiard ball rack.



It made no noise.

It was black and the entire bottom of it was on fire. It looked the same as if you were in an airplane or helicopter at night and were looking down at a forest fire.

It was stationary for about another 10 seconds and then it started to rise up slowly. There was a patch/strip of cloud that it headed toward. As it rose up it turned sideways and entered the cloud. When it was on the other side of the cloud, the cloud lit up in bright orange.
 
michael59 said:
I have, the first time I posted this experience was in 2010.

On Saturday July 3rd, 1999.

I went to my friends house for my birthday BBQ/party. There was a lot of people including children.

It has pretty much become a yearly ritual, since we all got tired of the bar scene. I think the last time we went to the "club" was for my thirtieth.

This particular friend has two sons who at that time were age 11 and 13.

At around midnight everyone was leaving except two friends of the boys who decided they wanted to sleep over.

I decided to stay a little longer because they were going to be showing a re-run of Keeping Up Appearances on PBS. My friend and I really liked that show and it was going to air at 12:30am.

The boys were in the basement playing video games and making a lot of noises like, "Look out!'; "Get it!'; "YEAH!"... obviously engrossed in the game they were playing.

At 12:20am, the house fell silent.

I looked over at my friend, her head was bowed and her eyes were closed. I remember thinking it was a little strange but, then my thoughts turned to going home.

I got my stuff together and then I had to wake her because I needed to make sure she locked the door behind me. She was apologetic and was trying to get me to stay but, I said it was okay I'll just watch it at home.

As I walked down the pathway to my car out front, I remember that the house lights went out immediately. That also struck me as strange because I had lived there (rented the basement suite) for three years. Sandy's nightly routine involved a bath and then making sure all kids were tucked in bed before she went to bed. Every Night.

I got in the car and started it up. The route was, I had to go about three houses down, make a left, go about four houses down, make another left and then go to the end of the block to get to the main street I needed to exit the neighborhood.

As I made my second left, I saw a bright orange light behind a large spruce tree. I surmised that it was a harvest moon. Then something white flashed in front of my headlights and so I immediately slammed on the brakes. There were about 15-20 people standing in the middle of the road starring up at the harvest moon! It really scared me. You know that kind of scare that makes you angry? So, I rolled down my window and yelled: "What the hell? Let's all stand in the middle of the road!"

They didn't say anything, they just parted down the middle enough so that I could drive through. I of course drove very slowly through the crowd and then when they were behind me, I looked in the rear view mirror. That's when I noticed that the moon was in the sky - behind me.

When I got to the stop sign at the corner, which only took 5 seconds, there it was! To my left, in the sky. An aircraft the size of a football field. It was the same shape as a billiard ball rack.



It made no noise.

It was black and the entire bottom of it was on fire. It looked the same as if you were in an airplane or helicopter at night and were looking down at a forest fire.

It was stationary for about another 10 seconds and then it started to rise up slowly. There was a patch/strip of cloud that it headed toward. As it rose up it turned sideways and entered the cloud. When it was on the other side of the cloud, the cloud lit up in bright orange.
Click to expand...

Where was this - country/town?

I know there's others here who've seen black triangles. The 'size of a football field' description crops up time & again. That's fairly enormous when it comes to a flying craft & estimating size is notoriously difficult if you don't know the altitude, & that's hard to tell in the dark.
 
hunck said:
Where was this - country/town?

I know there's others here who've seen black triangles. The 'size of a football field' description crops up time & again. That's fairly enormous when it comes to a flying craft & estimating size is notoriously difficult if you don't know the altitude, & that's hard to tell in the dark.
Click to expand...

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

The thing was darker than the sky, even though it was on fire, there was no problem seeing the entire outline and shape of the craft. There were spaces between the flames that were not on fire but, I didn't see a single light on the craft like most people and most pictures indicate.
 
michael59 said:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

The thing was darker than the sky, even though it was on fire, there was no problem seeing the entire outline and shape of the craft. There were spaces between the flames that were not on fire but, I didn't see a single light on the craft like most people and most pictures indicate.
Click to expand...
There are other sightings of large craft surrounded by or emitting fire, but I'd have a hard time finding them now.
 
Edmonton? Mmm.
Might have been a rare red aurora.
I've seen that, and it was spectacular.
Curious that you mention that it had no lights yet was on fire. That sounds more like a natural phenomenon than an aircraft.
Here's a triangular example.
1e97d866199813e7d00af29cb96152f3.jpg
 
eburacum said:
Edmonton? Mmm.
Might have been a rare red aurora.
I've seen that, and it was spectacular.
Curious that you mention that it had no lights yet was on fire. That sounds more like a natural phenomenon than an aircraft.
Here's a triangular example.
1e97d866199813e7d00af29cb96152f3.jpg
Click to expand...
That doesn't look very triangular to me.
 
eburacum said:
Edmonton? Mmm.
Might have been a rare red aurora.
I've seen that, and it was spectacular.
Curious that you mention that it had no lights yet was on fire. That sounds more like a natural phenomenon than an aircraft.
Here's a triangular example.
1e97d866199813e7d00af29cb96152f3.jpg
Click to expand...

It's very beautiful, but not even close. :)
 
I would not dismiss the red aurora explanation yet. My own experience of the red aurora was very different to how I would have imagined it. The auroral display I was watching mostly consisted of the pale green curtains which are the most common form, and they were quite faint, so much so that I could barely register any colour impression from them.

But the red aurora happened closer to the horizon, and was deeply coloured; it was framed by dark clouds that were sharply delineated, and appeared black against the red sky. In reality, those dark clouds were relatively nearby, a few miles at most; and the aurora was probably many tens of miles further away, possibly as much as a hundred. Most significant of all for the purposes of this discussion, the sharply delineated black clouds that were silhouetted by the aurora were completely invisible otherwise; when the aurora faded away, these clouds were completely invisible against the black sky.

This leads me to a working hypothesis for the fiery triangle seen by michael59. Imagine a triangular gap in the nearby clouds, with a red aurora seen behind it. The aurora may have started at the lower part of the triangular gap, but quickly migrated towards the top, giving the appearance of a triangle rising upwards framed by black sky. Eventually the aurora could have been seen though the nearby 'patch or strip' of clouds at the top of this triangular opening, producing the glow that he describes.

I suggest that this sighting was the exact inverse of what he thought it was - rather than a nearby red triangle framed by black sky, it was a distant red phenomenon framed by nearby black clouds. The phenomenon was so out-of-the-ordinary that it was impossible to resolve it into its correct component parts.
 
https://nypost.com/2019/12/14/2019-...6WXV3rjrfOBqMVDFZAMq9v6pXKVuUmt45QEIe3jBMh6NA

Once thought to be fictional works used to sell tabloids, 2019 has been awash with news of UFOs, aliens and strange phenomenon — including reports (complete with video) from verifiably sane sources.

In May, the Pentagon admitted it investigates UFOs soon after Navy pilots claimed to not only have seen but recorded UFOs during training exercises in 2004 and 2015.

In November, another report in Popular Mechanics confirmed that after the 2004 incident, two “unknown individuals” took the data tapes away and wiped the memory from the Navy hard drive.

Meanwhile, just around the time the Popular Mechanics report was released, unidentified flying objects were captured on video off North Carolina’s Outer Banks and the Army announced a partnership with Blink-182 frontman Tom DeLonge’s To the Stars Academy to research alien technology.

But while astronomers say humans finding aliens may take a long time — 2019 was a particularly active year for UFOs visiting Earth.

According to the National UFO Reporting Center, on Sept. 21, in Gallipolis, Ohio, “A husband (former law enforcement) and wife (scientist), while sitting outside their recreational vehicle at a public campsite, witnessed a very bright light approach their campsite from the south in an erratic manner, appearing to slow or stop on several occasions as it drew near. It got within 50 yards, they estimate, of their campsite, at which time, out of a sense of alarm, the husband reached for his .45 caliber sidearm, but he felt unable to use his arm, or lift the firearm. The object, estimated by the witnesses to have been approximately 20 feet in diameter, hovered nearby for approximately 8 seconds, and then suddenly accelerated toward the west, and disappeared very quickly to the west.”

Meanwhile, on Sept. 1, in Taos, New Mexico, “Three elk hunters allegedly witnessed two alien creatures, standing upright, on a nearby hilltop. The next day, two of them return to the same area to look for evidence, and they allegedly witness an unusual looking craft resting on the ground.”

Tom DeLonge's alien-hunting group partners with US Army


Closer to home, on Aug. 12, on the New Jersey Garden State Parkway (near exit 38B by Atlantic City), “A husband and wife were driving north on the NJ Garden State Parkway when their attention was drawn to two peculiar white lights that appeared to be approaching their location. Suddenly, they realized that the lights were affixed to a very large, triangular craft, which maneuvered to above the highway and hovered. The witnesses could see ‘windows’ on the top of the craft, from which light appeared to emanate. Traffic was passing underneath the craft.”

If you’re worried about your home state, a handy UFO HotSpot Infographic was created by SatelliteInternet.com, which shows the states with the most alien activity.

According to the infographic, aliens apparently prefer colder climes as “UFO hotspots include Washington State (the home of the National UFO Reporting Center), Montana and Vermont. Alaska and Maine are also popular states for alien encounters.”

The states with the least alien activity are Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama — despite former President Jimmy Carter logging an official report with the International UFO Bureau in 1969, claiming he had seen a self-illuminated, multi-colored UFO before giving a speech at the Lions Club in Leary, Georgia.
 
The real reasons the US government is so secretive about UFOs
by Tom Rogan
| December 17, 2019 06:00 AM

Two years ago Sunday, the New York Times broke the stunning story of a secret Pentagon program to study unidentified flying objects. That story led me to delve into this strange world. I've learned some interesting stuff about UFOs ("unidentified aerial phenomena," or "UAP," as the Pentagon refers to them) since then. But there's one problem.

The United States government makes it very hard to figure out what and where UFO-related stuff is going on.

Is that because the government is behind some great conspiracy to cover up the proof of alien visitation to Earth? Is it because the government is in cahoots with alien species to create human-alien hybrids?

Perhaps, but I suspect not.

What I believe is really going on here is that the few individuals in the U.S. government who know about this issue believe the phenomena might be a threat. And that they don't know how to deal with it.

So, what informs the government's fear?

Well, first off, the nuclear issue.

If you ask a Pentagon representative about a specific UFO incident, as I did most recently last week, you'll get a boring response like: "Our aviators train as they fight. Any intrusions that may compromise the security of our operations, tactics, or procedures is of great concern. As the investigation of unidentified aerial phenomena sightings is ongoing, we will not discuss individual sighting reports or observations."

By "aviators," the Pentagon is referencing the particular frequency with which UFOs tend to interact with U.S. naval aviators operating off aircraft carriers. But what the Pentagon is leaving out is why the UFOs tend to run into those naval aviators. And that cuts to the heart of why the Pentagon is concerned about UFOs.

Because the government's assessment, though they won't admit it, is that the UFOs are popping up near the aircraft carriers due to those carriers being nuclear-powered. Note also that UFOs also like to pop up near nuclear submarines and Air Force nuclear weapons bases. Now recognize that this paradigm has been occurring since the Manhattan Project operations at Los Alamos, New Mexico, and also at nuclear sites in the Soviet Union and Russia.

Oh, and as Robert Hastings documents, these UFOs have sometimes even temporarily shut down U.S. nuclear weapons systems. Interesting, right?

Now recall what I just said: The modern UFO phenomena really gets going at exactly the same time as the Manhattan Project. Has humanity's perfection of nuclear energy piqued someone or something's curiosity in us?

Don't get me wrong.

This isn't to say that these UFOs are hostile (although it must be noted that the diverging shapes, behaviors, and capability patterns of UFOs suggest more than one originating source). On the contrary, UFOs appear to be quite friendly, except when rather ill-advised Russian aircrews attempt to engage them.

But pretend you're a senior military or intelligence officer.

You see the nuclear connection point, and you're struck by something odd going on. Now, add to the nuclear issue that some UFOs are intelligently operated machines capable of instantaneously reaching hypersonic speeds. Oh, and that they're also anti-gravity and invisibility capable, and they have been tracked moving in and out of Earth orbit, the atmosphere, and underwater. Suddenly, you have something that is making the U.S. military's most advanced capabilities, and those of every other military on Earth, look like an absurd joke in comparison.

You're left with an unpleasant conclusion: If whatever is controlling these things intends harm, we don't have a chance.

Again, put yourself in the military officer's shoes. Something has repeatedly shown it can easily find carrier strike groups, which are designed and operated to be hidden in the far oceans, and to find nuclear ballistic missile submarines running near totally silent deep under the water. Something can penetrate the most securely guarded areas of the most important areas in the U.S. military and render our most critical deterrent platforms improbable. For Pentagon planners, this is Armageddon-level stuff.

But the truth is clear: If it wanted to, something strange could defeat America without raising a sweat.

The extension is that even if the U.S. government believes, as it does, that these UFOs aren't Chinese or Russian, publicizing the issue itself risks another danger. Namely, that if the U.S. shares what it knows about UFOs, China or Russia (the Russian government has long been very interested in UFOs) might learn enough to replicate the associated technologies behind UFOs for themselves. And seeing as those technologies are almost certainly built around space-time manipulation, if Beijing or Moscow figures it out before the U.S. does, we have a rather large problem.

This isn't to say that the U.S. government is sitting idle. Whatever one thinks about the claims of those such as Bob Lazar, who says he worked on crashed UFOs at Area 51, and I'm not convinced of his story, civilian and military government agencies retain active programs to ascertain the source, capabilities, and intent of UFOs. Indeed, at least some material from crashed UFOs is in U.S. government possession.

Just don't count on the military to share more of what it knows anytime soon. Their understanding of the phenomena and professional instincts weigh heavily toward more secrecy.

What of the politicians?

President Trump has admitted he has been briefed on UFOs, and Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama likely were too. Interestingly, when asked about it, both former presidents jump to joking nondenials. But seeing as they have few good answers, they likely believe there's no point in scaring folks and scarring social norms absent a solution.

Where does this leave us?

Well, with the need to keep pushing this issue. But also with confidence. It will take time, but we'll get to the truth eventually. After all, the UFOs keep popping up. And considering their ability to cloak, there's only one obvious answer as to why they let themselves be seen.


At least sometimes, they want to be seen.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-the-us-government-is-so-secretive-about-ufos
 
Interesting points there.
There has been more than one encounter with alien occupants wherein the message has been essentially 'stop using nuclear bombs because they affect our world too'. Perhaps these beings are from a parallel dimension and nukes have an effect on all dimensions at the same time?
 
Mythopoeika said:
Interesting points there.
There has been more than one encounter with alien occupants wherein the message has been essentially 'stop using nuclear bombs because they affect our world too'. Perhaps these beings are from a parallel dimension and nukes have an effect on all dimensions at the same time?
Click to expand...
If you look at the old articles, including a landing at Stallion Site, and the objects flying up missiles at White Sands, surveillance of bases, landings, it is almost ALL about nukes. They know we are going to blow it --AI.
 
Yeah, but there is no shortage of Earthlings with exactly the same concerns who don't need to ally themselves with possibly non-existent space brothers to make precisely the same point.
 
GNC said:
Yeah, but there is no shortage of Earthlings with exactly the same concerns who don't need to ally themselves with possibly non-existent space brothers to make precisely the same point.
Click to expand...
But that's not really working, and the governments don't listen to them; now we are back to making medium range missiles and the Russians developing nuclear propulsion, and the US with a space force. The government isn't paying attention to the UFO devices either; probably having fired upon them many times.
There is an abundance and variety of life on this oasis Earth; some would probably like to not have it extinguished.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/25/ai-could-lead-to-a-nuclear-war-by-2040-rand-corporation-warns.html
https://www.google.com/search?ei=BK...hUKEwj4zaWIpsDmAhWJvZ4KHfv2CncQ4dUDCAs&uact=5
 
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Lizard King said:
I have always wondered why some UFOs have lights on the outside of the craft.
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That is such an obvious question that either nobody has asked it prior, or no-one has taken it seriously before, and that makes it borderline genius. Why indeed?

Do the flying saucers deliberately want to be seen? I mean, they must know we take in a visual spectrum.
Or perhaps it is entirely due to the propulsion system, and the fact that it can't be hidden?
Or perhaps the saucers are not regulated to fly without appropriate navigation lights for OH&S reasons, and this is proof that they are terrestrial aircraft?
Or perhaps they need them in subterranean or subaquatic environments... but you'd think they had a better system.
 
Blimey, AlchoPwn, we've discussed this issue many times in this forum (lights on the outside of alien craft). Where were you?

Most of the potential answers we've come up with are the same as your suggestions (although the one about subterranean or subaquatic environments is a new one - I like it!)

My favoured explanation is that the entities inside the spacecraft are idiots. To be more charitable, they are an alien species that has lived so long with automation and intelligent AI systems controlling their every move that they have lost all agency (or maybe just nearly all agency). They have become an idiocracy, barely capable of putting two coherent thoughts together, and they have totally forgotten that there are lights on the outside of their craft.

If humans in the future become too reliant on autonomous systems, we might become idiots too.
 
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eburacum said:
My favoured explanation is that the entities inside the spacecraft are idiots. To be more charitable, they are an alien species that has lived so long with automation and intelligent AI systems controlling their every move that they have lost all agency (or maybe just nearly all agency). They have become an idiocracy, barely capable of putting two coherent thoughts together, and they have totally forgotten that there are lights on the outside of their craft.

If humans in the future become too reliant on autonomous systems, we might become idiots too.
Click to expand...

I had an interesting sighting once that made me question the way the ET see.

It was about 15 years ago, I woke up to use the bathroom and decided that I also wanted a cold glass of water so, I was walking through the back of my living room to get to the kitchen, where I keep a jug of cold water at all times. I was living on the top floor of a 3 story walk up apartment building at the time and I noticed two small beings walking the lane way outside dressed in black. People commonly refer to these beings as Grays but, they don't look grey to me. They look exactly like, Skinny Bob, right down to the outfits.


It was winter so, it was very easy to see them because the ground was all white from snow. My apartment was dark because I had no lights on and it was around 3:30 am. At first, I thought it was kids, around 10-12 years old and wearing the same outfits. They looked exactly the same and of course, my first thought was Halloween masks.

While I was doing all this thinking, one of them stopped, looked up and made direct eye contact with me. I was stunned because I was at the back of the room in the dark. But, it could see me. It looked over at it's mate and it walked back to it. They practically had their foreheads touching for just a moment and then they both turned, looked up and directly at me. They could definitely see me. A normal/regular human being could not have seen me standing in the back of a dark room three stories off the ground at night, let alone make direct eye contact with me. And it was definitely not a mask because I could see their big black eyes blinking.

I guess they decided I was no threat because they turned their backs towards me and proceeded to head down the lane way. I remember thinking, they are going to get a big surprise when they pass that first bush. The first house after the bush had a extremely bright flood light on their garage.

They didn't even notice when the flood light came on. Most people, including myself, are startled by it and have some kind/type of reaction. These beings didn't even miss a step, they continued on down the lane way until I could no longer see them.

Their eyesight must be very different from ours.
 
michael59 said:
I had an interesting sighting once that made me question the way the ET see.

It was about 15 years ago, I woke up to use the bathroom and decided that I also wanted a cold glass of water so, I was walking through the back of my living room to get to the kitchen, where I keep a jug of cold water at all times. I was living on the top floor of a 3 story walk up apartment building at the time and I noticed two small beings walking the lane way outside dressed in black. People commonly refer to these beings as Grays but, they don't look grey to me. They look exactly like, Skinny Bob, right down to the outfits.


It was winter so, it was very easy to see them because the ground was all white from snow. My apartment was dark because I had no lights on and it was around 3:30 am. At first, I thought it was kids, around 10-12 years old and wearing the same outfits. They looked exactly the same and of course, my first thought was Halloween masks.

While I was doing all this thinking, one of them stopped, looked up and made direct eye contact with me. I was stunned because I was at the back of the room in the dark. But, it could see me. It looked over at it's mate and it walked back to it. They practically had their foreheads touching for just a moment and then they both turned, looked up and directly at me. They could definitely see me. A normal/regular human being could not have seen me standing in the back of a dark room three stories off the ground at night, let alone make direct eye contact with me. And it was definitely not a mask because I could see their big black eyes blinking.

I guess they decided I was no threat because they turned their backs towards me and proceeded to head down the lane way. I remember thinking, they are going to get a big surprise when they pass that first bush. The first house after the bush had a extremely bright flood light on their garage.

They didn't even notice when the flood light came on. Most people, including myself, are startled by it and have some kind/type of reaction. These beings didn't even miss a step, they continued on down the lane way until I could no longer see them.

Their eyesight must be very different from ours.
Click to expand...
Wow.. Damn, That is quite the experience. I've experienced no humanoids, myself.
 
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