The UFO Community Still Believes—And Science Is Starting To Listen

Sharon Hill

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You know, if ever there was a time for aliens to visit or disclosure to happen, now would be it, don't you think? It's really very ugly in U.S. today.
 

feinman

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You know, if ever there was a time for aliens to visit or disclosure to happen, now would be it, don't you think? It's really very ugly in U.S. today.
It is awful. Brings tears to my eyes. If there was a better way for us to live and we could be guided somehow.. perhaps... There is that Quote from Reagan about how unifying that would be --but he was referring to what it would be like if there was... an invasion. As far as I can tell we've been shooting at these things from the beginning. We seem to be cycling through the same problems over and over again. Imagine us sending robotic surveillance probes out to a planet with life we have discovered only to be shot at by a species that has worked hard to develop the means to destroy the one planet they live on, while polluting it and choking out its other animals and processes --even fighting among themselves over the colors of their hides. I'd turn the probes around and stay the hell away from that place. I think we are a flawed imperfect species and that could be the end of us, going the way of many species before. Tribal, warlike apes just aren't ready for it --religion and hate and Xenophobia would make that kind of contact impossible right now, unfortunately, I think. I wish, though Sharon..
 

eburacum

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I remember that Reagan once said, in the context of the Cold War;
"What if all of us in the world were threatened by an outer power, from outer space, from another planet. We would all of a sudden find out that we didn't have any differences at all."

I really don't think that would happen. We are threatened by a virus, from our own world, and we can't even unite against that.
 

Sharon Hill

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I remember that Reagan once said, in the context of the Cold War;
"What if all of us in the world were threatened by an outer power, from outer space, from another planet. We would all of a sudden find out that we didn't have any differences at all."

I really don't think that would happen. We are threatened by a virus, from our own world, and we can't even unite against that.
Half the people would want to blow them up and the other half would like to have them to tea. Yeah, this would not solve any differences. We're already dealing badly with xenophobia. You can't get more xeno- than aliens.

Yet, I think it would be reasonable, if the governments had anything to disclose, that this would be a good time simply as a distraction. However, I find no evidence this huge conspiracy is remotely plausible.
 

Robbrent

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The idea that nuts and bolts spaceships are visiting us just can't be proven by science, but I guess what can be proven is that some form of this has been going on for years and for whatever reason does not want to be found or communicate with us no star brothers and sisters are going to come down from the heavens and save us, (mores the pity) from what I have seen whatever it is seems to have a wicked sense of humour and likes toying with the gullible

That's not to say the Universe is not teaming with life it probably is, but it's more than likely not human type life and they may not have the human compunction to explore and discover
 

Sharon Hill

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The idea that nuts and bolts spaceships are visiting us just can't be proven by science, but I guess what can be proven is that some form of this has been going on for years and for whatever reason does not want to be found or communicate with us no star brothers and sisters are going to come down from the heavens and save us, (mores the pity) from what I have seen whatever it is seems to have a wicked sense of humour and likes toying with the gullible
There are a lot of assumptions packed in there. That's what makes the UFO/UAP subject so difficult to work with. "Proven by science" is a seriously problematic term. It seems like what we can say with confidence is that people have always seen weird things in the sky. It's also a certainty that there are many and various real and potential explanations for them. Has anyone drawn up a diagram of the various views on UAP? Flying saucers, astronomical objects, military tech, weather phenomena, earth lights, ghost lights, ball lightning, consciousness projections, angelic visits, demons, ultraterrestrial shenanigans... what did I forget?
 

feinman

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I think we have had a long time looking at these objects. Whatever they are, I suspect the ETH is the least strange of the possibilities, but suspect it is a combination of the ETH with a strange twist. They definitely seem to represent some kind of technology or purposeful design; specialization of parts, different complex processes going on --gases ejected, "lights", etc., an those individuals who have seen them close enough, very often describe them as some form of technology. They have appeared the same --and with the same characteristics over a long period of time. The behaviors / strategy / tactics of interactions with people has also remained very same over a long period of time. They seem to be under the control of an intelligent agency that is in control of encounters with people and doesn't hang around to be tested or for selfies. Mainstream science will be the last to admit the reality of the visitation --and that kind of caution is how it should be with science... So, that makes current mainstream science (not secret programs), somewhat useless for currently understanding the phenomenon, in the same way that jurors in a court of law can look at circumstantial and other forms of evidence (thought there is a lot of photographic evidence [even the blurry stuff released to public], and radar returns etc.) and still come to a verdict. Later when bullets or blood or DNA can be found it can overturn some cases. I think folks like Vallee could be correct about just how strange the phenomenon is --but it could also just be very advanced ETs, and we just don't understand the magic. AAATIP: like apes who have found a nail file and have created a secret group of apes to determine how to create more of them so we can sharpen them and use them to stab other apes. There is a reason these things have been studied in secret --unlike many natural phenomenon --some evidence the topic was classified higher than the H-bomb.
 

Analogue Boy

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There are a lot of assumptions packed in there. That's what makes the UFO/UAP subject so difficult to work with. "Proven by science" is a seriously problematic term. It seems like what we can say with confidence is that people have always seen weird things in the sky. It's also a certainty that there are many and various real and potential explanations for them. Has anyone drawn up a diagram of the various views on UAP? Flying saucers, astronomical objects, military tech, weather phenomena, earth lights, ghost lights, ball lightning, consciousness projections, angelic visits, demons, ultraterrestrial shenanigans... what did I forget?
You forgot Skybeasts and plain old bad eyesight.
 

marhawkman

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Half the people would want to blow them up and the other half would like to have them to tea. Yeah, this would not solve any differences. We're already dealing badly with xenophobia. You can't get more xeno- than aliens.

Yet, I think it would be reasonable, if the governments had anything to disclose, that this would be a good time simply as a distraction. However, I find no evidence this huge conspiracy is remotely plausible.
Yeah as someone once pointed out, successfully keeping a secret of that scale for over 50 years would be the first time in Human history it's been done.
 

feinman

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I disagree with the premise of the article --that we are ready. We are very unready. I'd argue not even worth it --but if we are the only fascinating life around in area, we should expect more of same. We have had many close-up views of the objects by trained observers, fighter pilots, simultaneous visual and radar detection flying over capitol and CIA says every base and missile site on US was buzzed by these objects --in articles. There are good photos that have never been debunked --some have even tried to alter those photos to add supporting strings where there are.. none. I got a good look at 'em --and I observe things carefully often, as I draw and paint. More and more will ome out, unhappily for skeptics :( Now the pentagon has said "they" are real, basically.. What's next? :cool:
 
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Coypu

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There are a lot of assumptions packed in there. That's what makes the UFO/UAP subject so difficult to work with. "Proven by science" is a seriously problematic term. It seems like what we can say with confidence is that people have always seen weird things in the sky. It's also a certainty that there are many and various real and potential explanations for them. Has anyone drawn up a diagram of the various views on UAP? Flying saucers, astronomical objects, military tech, weather phenomena, earth lights, ghost lights, ball lightning, consciousness projections, angelic visits, demons, ultraterrestrial shenanigans... what did I forget?
Chinese lanterns, drones, quad copters, tri copters, kites, golf balls.:thought:
 

feinman

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Chinese lanterns, drones, quad copters, tri copters, kites, golf balls.:thought:
It's best to actually look at the history and literature of the UFO subject before making statements, and assumptions about what they are, I have found. I think some folks will have to be dragged through the wringer on some future news cycles when more pilots and government scientists spill secrets they can't really keep.
 

feinman

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Just as clear as the nature of the UFO phenomenon to me, are certain facts:

1. Some people, many of them scientists, but also people who are ignorant or who will believe just what they want to believe, will never believe / acknowledge the reality of the phenomenon without physically testing a piece of a UFO or look at a Hollywood alien in captivity so THEY can test it. That's right folks; they will NEVER believe it until they themselves can test it. Yu can see it now in academic circles around things like the Sea Peoples and Greek Dark age etc., etc. ---That's how academia and science (should and does) work(s), and it is a useful part of the process..
2. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" --not to exist it doesn't, only to upset the current paradigm, it does. Any one of these objects like the Sternenschiff could have released some weapon that could have wiped us out. We are completely exposed to the possibility of an alien invasion or destruction Hollywood style. We would be arguing about it right before we were gone. Luckily the truth is stranger and less Hollywood than that mental model that many scientists and folks ignorant of the phenomenon, have. :)
3. Thus it will be an endless waste of time arguing with many folks about this subject; it will take regular, incontrovertible, long-term proof for many to know, and that is unlikely to happen from the US government at least, because they have already thought about all of this stuff and know that would be unwise.
 

marhawkman

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On point 2: People can make any claim they want about anything they want. If these have no evidence then what reason is there to believe them?
 

feinman

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On point 2: People can make any claim they want about anything they want. If these have no evidence then what reason is there to believe them?
Some of them are perfectly good witnesses, others are police or astronomers in groups who have watched them through binoculars, telescopes, and theodolites. Others are fighter pilots from any period, latest; Nimitz fighters. There have been mass sightings. The patterns of data around movements and maneuvers, shape colors etc., have been same from beginning. Patterns in data, etc. Then there are the civilian encounters...

RAND refused to release an important study on the existence of unidentified flying objects
Initially, we did refuse to release the UFO study, but not because it was classified or controversial. The paper was published in an internal series that was not releasable to the public because it had not been peer-reviewed. We eventually decided that the demand for the paper superseded our internal policy and posted it.

I'm not the only one to notice these things:

https://archive.org/details/TheCometaReport



  • UFOs: What To Do? 1967
    George Kocher
    Since World War II, there seems to have been a drastic increase in the number of UFO sightings. UFOs are unambiguously extraordinary and clearly inexplicable in modern terms. The author examines the UFO phenomenon and suggests the need for more standardized reporting to obtain more objective data.
 

feinman

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This is fun, but I gotta go get some stuff done.
 

eburacum

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I have examined the UFO phenomenon for more than fifty years, and I'm more convinced than ever that it has a psychosocial explanation (which is to say, it has many, many explanations, all different, but all rooted in human perception and psychology). The GOFAST, FLIR1 and GIMBAL clips all have mundane explanations, and so does every other sighting so far.

I am hopeful that one day we will have good proof of extraterrestrial civilisation, but this hasn't appeared yet. Don't waste your time waiting for disclosure- there is nothing to disclose.
 

feinman

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I have examined the UFO phenomenon for more than fifty years, and I'm more convinced than ever that it has a psychosocial explanation (which is to say, it has many, many explanations, all different, but all rooted in human perception and psychology). The GOFAST, FLIR1 and GIMBAL clips all have mundane explanations, and so does every other sighting so far.

I am hopeful that one day we will have good proof of extraterrestrial civilisation, but this hasn't appeared yet. Don't waste your time waiting for disclosure- there is nothing to disclose.
If you think skeptics are "winning" guess again. Folks have been studying this from WWII and it is the height of absurdity to think these things are psychological phenomenon. In fact it is insulting to all kinds of folks who have seen them, in the military and elsewhere. Do continue on this tack though :) Everyone knows what you and other skeptics believe, and you all just double-down in the face of more folks coming out of the government trying to let people know. Anyone can look at the history for themselves and realize how absurd those kinds of approaches are. Sometimes science can be so limiting as to prevent clear vision; I've seen it many times before.
 

feinman

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Some of them are perfectly good witnesses, others are police or astronomers in groups who have watched them through binoculars, telescopes, and theodolites. Others are fighter pilots from any period, latest; Nimitz fighters. There have been mass sightings. The patterns of data around movements and maneuvers, shape colors etc., have been same from beginning. Patterns in data, etc. Then there are the civilian encounters...

RAND refused to release an important study on the existence of unidentified flying objects
Initially, we did refuse to release the UFO study, but not because it was classified or controversial. The paper was published in an internal series that was not releasable to the public because it had not been peer-reviewed. We eventually decided that the demand for the paper superseded our internal policy and posted it.

I'm not the only one to notice these things:

https://archive.org/details/TheCometaReport



  • UFOs: What To Do? 1967
    George Kocher
    Since World War II, there seems to have been a drastic increase in the number of UFO sightings. UFOs are unambiguously extraordinary and clearly inexplicable in modern terms. The author examines the UFO phenomenon and suggests the need for more standardized reporting to obtain more objective data.
Not a psychological phenomenon.
 

Sharon Hill

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Not a psychological phenomenon.
Because you say so? And because the rest of us just don't understand? You're right, though, there is no point in arguing. This road is well-worn.

But I'm open to bets about being pulled through the wringer. 50+ years and counting shows disclosure and evidence of alien craft (or other extreme idea) are not likely. I'd play those odds.
 

feinman

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Because you say so? And because the rest of us just don't understand? You're right, though, there is no point in arguing. This road is well-worn.

But I'm open to bets about being pulled through the wringer. 50+ years and counting shows disclosure and evidence of alien craft (or other extreme idea) are not likely. I'd play those odds.
Because the arguments I see being made demonstrate a complete lack of familiarity with the historical material --so much so that it sometimes seems compulsive or disingenuous. There is no moving forward because the same old stuff comes up --like the psychological explanation. I don't even have the energy to explain why that is ridiculous --from a scientific standpoint! :rolleyes: Many of these points have been addressed in past posts, too.
So, I am banning myself from the forum until I am done with Swifty's picture! so I don't get sucked into these arguments, and don't get kicked off before I am done. Just watch the news (and skies! :)). Some folks will just have to find out for themselves.
 

eburacum

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I am completely familiar with the historical material, thank you.
 

marhawkman

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Yeah, I'm one of those people who thinks that a "broad strokes" version of UFO analysis is a bad idea. You need to verify each piece of data before you can draw a conclusion from it. People keep seeing weird stuff they can't identify. But that doesn't mean the stuff people see can't be identified.
 

Naughty_Felid

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I'd just like to say reading eburacum's posts for the last 15 years he/she/they are normally spot on.
 

Skrymr

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I have been reading into as many military reports as I can, a lot often witnessed by multiple sources (I prefer military because trained observers, often multiple observers with Radar returns etc). If there are ET visitations, it seems that the whole shooting at them wasn't entirely without reason. IF they are here, the history of abductions, animal including human mutilations, disabling and in one instance nearly causing the launch of nuclear weapons etc, they aren't here for friendly reasons. I've been seeing a lot of the woo side of things talking about space brothers here to uplift us spiritually, it all seems very naive. I've been trying to find verification of reports from Vietnam, including an instance of abducting an entire village, and an American bomber found in the jungle with all the crew having suffered the classical signs of mutilation.


It doesn't paint a very good picture at all, if it is all in fact real and not some weird psyops disinformation campaign
 

stu neville

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nd an American bomber found in the jungle with all the crew having suffered the classical signs of mutilation.
..isn't that the William English saga? He was covered at length in the FT ages ago.
 
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