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The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

Tunn11 said:
I was always told that Brussels sprouts should only be harvested after the plant had been exposed to frost. This changed the chemistry of the plant and made the sprouts taste better. Freezing after harvesting doesn’t have the same effect, in fact it makes them mushier without improving the flavour. The traditional British method of boiling them to a watery paste doesn’t help either.:doh:

Sweet corn tastes very sweet if harvested and cooked immediately, the sugars turning to starch very quickly after harvesting.
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Parsnips are sweeter after a frost. They convert starch to sugars.
 

Letting meat eaters drown is ethical because of the suffering they cause to animals, an Oxford University academic has controversially argued.​

​

Dr Michael Plant, a philosopher focusing on happiness, who eats meat himself, claims that, according to some moral philosophies, it can be justifiable to let people like himself die.

His argument stems from a conflict of what he says are two commonly held beliefs.

The first is human beings have a duty to rescue each other when doing so comes at a trivial cost. For example, jumping into a pond to save a drowning child but ruining your clothes in the process.

The second belief, Dr Plant claims, is it is wrong to eat meat because of the suffering animals can experience in factory farms.

Livestock, like chickens, can often be kept in cramped, dirty conditions before they are slaughtered.

He says this conflict leaves people who subscribe to the second belief in a morally interesting position if they encounter someone who eats meat drowning in a pond, and that allowing them to die might, in fact, be the lesser evil.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11389953/Should-save-dying-stranger-know-eat-MEAT.html

(Bonus points for (reverse?) nominative determinism.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:

Letting meat eaters drown is ethical because of the suffering they cause to animals, an Oxford University academic has controversially argued.​

​

Dr Michael Plant, a philosopher focusing on happiness, who eats meat himself, claims that, according to some moral philosophies, it can be justifiable to let people like himself die.

His argument stems from a conflict of what he says are two commonly held beliefs.

The first is human beings have a duty to rescue each other when doing so comes at a trivial cost. For example, jumping into a pond to save a drowning child but ruining your clothes in the process.

The second belief, Dr Plant claims, is it is wrong to eat meat because of the suffering animals can experience in factory farms.

Livestock, like chickens, can often be kept in cramped, dirty conditions before they are slaughtered.

He says this conflict leaves people who subscribe to the second belief in a morally interesting position if they encounter someone who eats meat drowning in a pond, and that allowing them to die might, in fact, be the lesser evil.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11389953/Should-save-dying-stranger-know-eat-MEAT.html

(Bonus points for (reverse?) nominative determinism.

maximus otter
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Of course he'd think like this. He's a Plant.
 
maximus otter said:

Letting meat eaters drown is ethical because of the suffering they cause to animals, an Oxford University academic has controversially argued.​

​

Dr Michael Plant, a philosopher focusing on happiness, who eats meat himself, claims that, according to some moral philosophies, it can be justifiable to let people like himself die.

His argument stems from a conflict of what he says are two commonly held beliefs.

The first is human beings have a duty to rescue each other when doing so comes at a trivial cost. For example, jumping into a pond to save a drowning child but ruining your clothes in the process.

The second belief, Dr Plant claims, is it is wrong to eat meat because of the suffering animals can experience in factory farms.

Livestock, like chickens, can often be kept in cramped, dirty conditions before they are slaughtered.

He says this conflict leaves people who subscribe to the second belief in a morally interesting position if they encounter someone who eats meat drowning in a pond, and that allowing them to die might, in fact, be the lesser evil.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11389953/Should-save-dying-stranger-know-eat-MEAT.html

(Bonus points for (reverse?) nominative determinism.

maximus otter
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"Animals are our friends but they won't pick you up at the airport"
Bobcat Goldthwait
 
People in cities live in dirty, cramped conditions but no one is bothered.

(Largely, I assume, because they are the very rich/very poor, and so dont count).
 
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I’ve tried the Sainsbury’s chicken style chunks, yeah they are very good, although I’ve yet to find anything I like as much as Quorn.

I like the vegan patty at Subway, with all the trimmings (apart from chillies).

I came across vegan black pudding the other month, I tried it but wasn’t impressed.
 
Mooka said:
I’ve tried the Sainsbury’s chicken style chunks, yeah they are very good, although I’ve yet to find anything I like as much as Quorn.

I like the vegan patty at Subway, with all the trimmings (apart from chillies).

I came across vegan black pudding the other month, I tried it but wasn’t impressed.
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A new academic study confirms my suspicions that the hype around plant-based 'meat' converting omnivores to veganism was misplaced:

"The study looked at UK supermarket sales during the 'Veganuary' period and found that while the average weekly sales of plant-based foods increased significantly by 57%, there was no reciprocal reduction in meat sales.

The research monitored sales of plant-based and meat products in January 2021, with figures compared to sales before and after the Veganuary campaign period in November 2020, February, and March 2021."

https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/plant-based-food-sales-are-meat-sales-not-affected

Greggs stated a similar result with their vegan sausage rolls that were hugely popular but didn't dent sales in their pork sausage rolls, however this information was somewhat lost amidst all the hyperbole.

Plant-based 'meat' sales have peaked and are now in decline in the US:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/07/plant-based-meat-declining-sales/

It would seem the same is happening in the UK but retailers such as Tesco will be slow to admit this following their relentless promotion of these alternatives. There is also a growing tide of realisation that fake meats aren't all that healthy:

"Specifically, they found that those who consumed plant-based meats fell below the daily requirements for calcium, potassium, magnesium, zinc and vitamin B12. Plus, those eating these foods exceeded the reference values for sugar, saturated fat and sugar. This group did consume more fiber than the meat-eaters."

https://www.eatingwell.com/article/...at-healthy-heres-what-a-dietitian-has-to-say/
 
Mooka said:
I’ve tried the Sainsbury’s chicken style chunks, yeah they are very good, although I’ve yet to find anything I like as much as Quorn.

I like the vegan patty at Subway, with all the trimmings (apart from chillies).

I came across vegan black pudding the other month, I tried it but wasn’t impressed.
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To be honest, as an ex Subway staff, the only vegan thing that could be a bit of a pain in the arse to make was the meatless meatballs. Everything else vegan was no bother to prepare. When I was busy, I used to bullshit vegans with "I'm sorry but our meatless meatballs are so popular, we've sold out!" .. I felt a bit guilty when the nice vegans didn't make a fuss about that, in fact a couple of times I reverse bullshitted them with "Oh no, hang on!.. sorry I forgot! .. we have got some left in the chiller." just because they were so cool so I realised I was being a dick.

I got caught out one day though. I used to get a 'Karen' type who'd also come in next to my closing time ordering the bespoke meatless meatballs. I only learned I'd bullshitted her so often when she snapped at me "Why is it only you that doesn't have the meatless meatballs when I come in?!". I'd been rumbled. "Sorry but it's because they're such fast sellers." (they weren't) "I'll be happy to save some for you in the future if you're able to call ahead earlier?". She never did though.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
A new academic study confirms my suspicions that the hype around plant-based 'meat' converting omnivores to veganism was misplaced:

"The study looked at UK supermarket sales during the 'Veganuary' period and found that while the average weekly sales of plant-based foods increased significantly by 57%, there was no reciprocal reduction in meat sales.

The research monitored sales of plant-based and meat products in January 2021, with figures compared to sales before and after the Veganuary campaign period in November 2020, February, and March 2021."

https://www.surrey.ac.uk/news/plant-based-food-sales-are-meat-sales-not-affected

Greggs stated a similar result with their vegan sausage rolls that were hugely popular but didn't dent sales in their pork sausage rolls, however this information was somewhat lost amidst all the hyperbole.

Plant-based 'meat' sales have peaked and are now in decline in the US:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/11/07/plant-based-meat-declining-sales/

It would seem the same is happening in the UK but retailers such as Tesco will be slow to admit this following their relentless promotion of these alternatives. There is also a growing tide of realisation that fake meats aren't all that healthy:

"Specifically, they found that those who consumed plant-based meats fell below the daily requirements for calcium, potassium, magnesium, zinc and vitamin B12. Plus, those eating these foods exceeded the reference values for sugar, saturated fat and sugar. This group did consume more fiber than the meat-eaters."

https://www.eatingwell.com/article/...at-healthy-heres-what-a-dietitian-has-to-say/
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I don’t find the study results surprising to be honest.

Regards health, I think some people wrongly assume eating vegetarian or vegan is automatically healthier, but like with any diet it has to be balanced to be healthy. I’m not vegan but have been vegetarian for about thirty years and know there are too many unhealthy vegetarian and vegan ready meals (unnecessarily high in fat and/or salt, sometimes sugar even) being sold. True the same can be said of meat-based ready meals, but people tend to assume a veg one would be better for you, when the equivalent meat-based one might be lower in fat for example. It’s not very often I eat ready meals, I like to cook from scratch, sometimes I’ll include a soya mince or Quorn chunks but often just do mixed veg, pulses, throw in some chestnuts or pine nuts etc. I do like to try different things so when I see something new like the vegan black pudding, I’ll buy it just to try it.

One thing I’ve never done is preach. I often come across the assumption vegetarians and vegans try and inflict their moral views onto meat eaters, but my experience is quite the reverse. I’ve had some downright rude people over the years trying to tell me I should be eating meat, or questioning if I wear leather when I order a vegetarian meal.
 
Swifty said:
To be honest, as an ex Subway staff, the only vegan thing that could be a bit of a pain in the arse to make was the meatless meatballs. Everything else vegan was no bother to prepare. When I was busy, I used to bullshit vegans with "I'm sorry but our meatless meatballs are so popular, we've sold out!" .. I felt a bit guilty when the nice vegans didn't make a fuss about that, in fact a couple of times I reverse bullshitted them with "Oh no, hang on!.. sorry I forgot! .. we have got some left in the chiller." just because they were so cool so I realised I was being a dick.

I got caught out one day though. I used to get a 'Karen' type who'd also come in next to my closing time ordering the bespoke meatless meatballs. I only learned I'd bullshitted her so often when she snapped at me "Why is it only you that doesn't have the meatless meatballs when I come in?!". I'd been rumbled. "Sorry but it's because they're such fast sellers." (they weren't) "I'll be happy to save some for you in the future if you're able to call ahead earlier?". She never did though.
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:chuckle: I actually never tried the meatless meatballs.
 
Swifty said:
Don't. They're horrible.
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Duly noted. I’ll stick to the vegan patty and the vegetarian Cheese D’lite or whatever it’s called :)
 
I'm not surprised at all.
I'm not convinced that an ordinary (omnivorous) shopper is going to look at a meat-based product and a vegan alternative and say "Y'know what? Since there's a vegan version of my favourite burger, I'm going to change my diet immediately!"
The increase in sales are from existing vegans who have the product available in a large, local store.
 

Beyond Meat factory riddled with mold, other dirty conditions: leaked documents​


One of Beyond Meat’s key factories was reportedly riddled with mold, bacteria and other health-related concerns, according to leaked evidence provided by a former employee.

A leaked internal document revealed Beyond Meat products manufactured at the plant had tested positive for the harmful bacteria Listeria at least 11 times in the second half of 2021 and the first half of this year.

The outlet also obtained internal documents stating that various contaminants, including string, metal, wood and plastic, had been found in Beyond Meat products produced at the plant as recently as last December.

Bloomberg published photos from inside the facility that were provided by a former employee. The pictures showed “what appear to be spills, unsafe use of equipment, and mold on walls and ingredient containers,” according to the report.
“Mold growth takes a while — that underscores a lack of cleanliness,” said Bill Marler, a food-safety attorney, after viewing some of the photos.

“If neat and tidy is 1 and filthy is 10, I’d put this at an 8”.
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https://nypost.com/2022/11/21/beyon...mold-other-dirty-conditions-leaked-documents/

maximus otter
 
Paul_Exeter said:
Greggs stated a similar result with their vegan sausage rolls that were hugely popular but didn't dent sales in their pork sausage rolls, however this information was somewhat lost amidst all the hyperbole.
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That's probably because Greggs seem to have stopped selling the veggie pasty.
They are pushing the vegan sausage roll as the go-to choice for vegetarians & vegans now instead.
 
Mooka said:
I don’t find the study results surprising to be honest.

Regards health, I think some people wrongly assume eating vegetarian or vegan is automatically healthier, but like with any diet it has to be balanced to be healthy. I’m not vegan but have been vegetarian for about thirty years and know there are too many unhealthy vegetarian and vegan ready meals (unnecessarily high in fat and/or salt, sometimes sugar even) being sold. True the same can be said of meat-based ready meals,
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Definitely. Even those horrible pre-packed 'salad' thingies are reported to be very high in salt and sugar as well.
 
High salt? High sugar? Listeria?
'S okay - as long as it isn't 'contaminated' by meat.
 
maximus otter said:

Beyond Meat factory riddled with mold, other dirty conditions: leaked documents​


One of Beyond Meat’s key factories was reportedly riddled with mold, bacteria and other health-related concerns, according to leaked evidence provided by a former employee.

A leaked internal document revealed Beyond Meat products manufactured at the plant had tested positive for the harmful bacteria Listeria at least 11 times in the second half of 2021 and the first half of this year.

The outlet also obtained internal documents stating that various contaminants, including string, metal, wood and plastic, had been found in Beyond Meat products produced at the plant as recently as last December.

Bloomberg published photos from inside the facility that were provided by a former employee. The pictures showed “what appear to be spills, unsafe use of equipment, and mold on walls and ingredient containers,” according to the report.



https://nypost.com/2022/11/21/beyon...mold-other-dirty-conditions-leaked-documents/

maximus otter
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Aren't mould and bacteria the major ingredients?
 
hunck said:
Really? - sugar in prepacked salad?..
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Yes. Those 'salad bowl' thingies.

And the pre-packed bags of various leaves etc are also pretty dire by all accounts (although I have bought those occasionally). Washed in chlorine for a start, and have virtually no nutritional value anyway as they start to lose all that once they're picked.
 
Our shop sells vegan meatballs. I actually prefer them to meat meatballs because they have a denser texture and are chewier. However, I have extreme doubts about how 'environmentally friendly' they are because they aren't just veg pressed into ball shapes, they are veg that's been denatured, processed, had flavour and texture added and then been formed into ball shapes. All the energy that goes into the processing cannot be good for the environment, unless they are doing it with a donkey powered treadmill. And even then, what about the donkey?

I'd like to see carbon neutral food.
 
catseye said:
Our shop sells vegan meatballs. I actually prefer them to meat meatballs because they have a denser texture and are chewier. However, I have extreme doubts about how 'environmentally friendly' they are because they aren't just veg pressed into ball shapes, they are veg that's been denatured, processed, had flavour and texture added and then been formed into ball shapes. All the energy that goes into the processing cannot be good for the environment, unless they are doing it with a donkey powered treadmill. And even then, what about the donkey?

I'd like to see carbon neutral food.
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Yes, I know what you mean. They are better in a casserole/stew for eg as they hold their shape.

As for the aforementioned picnic eggs, I have only found vegetarian ones (although they do make vegan ones apparently).

Man, I really miss a proper Scotch egg.
 
A vegan commentator in the Guardian stating that since we have have mushroom mycoprotein to imitate meat and dairy (albeit with lots of processing and additives) then nobody should eat meat and dairy, full stop.

Think they overlooked that, by the same argument, vegans should also stop eating fruits, vegetable and grains imported from the four corners of the planet by either polluting container ships or polluting aircraft. How dare they have smashed Peruvian avocado on toast with all those food miles when they can have mashed UK mycoprotein coloured avocado green and flavoured with imitation avocado essence...?
 
There are days when the bargain section of some supermarkets is taken up entirely by weird vegan food-substitutes in various shades of green and grey. Their original prices are sometimes eye-watering but they don't seem able to give them away. I have never been tempted by these manufactured monstrosities, though I am happy to enjoy many a vegan meal assembled from vegetables, fruits, grains and spices. :dunno:
 
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