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The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,891
Arent we being told that its best to eat less processed food?
Yes:

"The study revealed that beef had 22 additional metabolites that were not found in plant-based alternatives. Among the nutrients missing from plant-based alternatives are metabolites essential to human life and brain development including anserine, cysteamine, glucosamine, squalene, and the omega-3 fatty acid DHA."

https://wellness.consumerfreedom.co...ives-lack-vital-nutrition-found-in-real-meat/

"Protein absorption is just one area where fake meat cannot compare to real meat. Fake meat products are often ultra-processed and loaded with sodium, preservatives, and other ingredients you’ve likely never heard of and couldn’t spell if your life depended on it."

https://wellness.consumerfreedom.com/new-study-fake-meat-cant-deliver-the-nutrients-of-real-meat/

"The protein found in plant-based fake meat products doesn’t absorb into human cells as well as real protein from real meat, according to a new study."

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...d-meat-may-be-less-well-absorbed-by-the-body/

"But please, don’t kid yourself that this is healthy food. It’s junk. While health experts exhort us to eat more vegetables, this isn’t what they mean. They mean actual vegetables, you know, cabbage and carrots and cauliflowers. The plant-based kind"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-...-substitutes-bad-diet-healthy-junk-food-2022/

Thankfully sales of these fake meats are declining quickly following the initial hype and their novelty factor,
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
48,857
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
What I'd like to know is this:

What will happen to all the livestock breeds we will no longer need when/if we go over completely to veganism?
Would we let all these species just die out? After all, nobody will be farming them anymore.
So... would veganism be responsible for a mass extinction event?
Suppose we find out in the future that veganism is actually a bad idea? There'd be no way back to farming meat, would there?
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
5,158
Well, the way I see it is that having a vegetarian diet was either a religious or ethical decision, way back. The idea was considered a fad, and it was left at that. It was considered a natural diet, with natural non-processed ingredients.
Then, as meat prices rose, economic considerations came into play. Fresh fruit 'n' vegetables - now available cheap and year-round - was considered both economic and healthy. But to appeal to other, non-vegetarians the producers had to make faux meat products which introduced processing, which helped increase prices.
Now, we have people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons, any health benefits are a secondary issue and used as a bait to those who still eat meat. The products on the shelves for vegetarians are processed and contain additives - far from 'natural'. If you want to be vegetarian, why do you want faux-meat products?
Eat fresh fruit and in-season vegetables. Eat beans and pulses. Go natural. Then you're not paying for processed foods. You are cooking the food yourself.
There are medical issues which require special diets, of course. But unless you are actually diagnosed with a condition, folks just saying "Since I turned [insert diet here], I've felt better/more healthy" means nothing to me. You do you and if you feel the benefits, great. This doesn't mean my own body will react the same. Physically, we're all different.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
What I'd like to know is this:

What will happen to all the livestock breeds we will no longer need when/if we go over completely to veganism?
Would we let all these species just die out? After all, nobody will be farming them anymore.
So... would veganism be responsible for a mass extinction event?
Suppose we find out in the future that veganism is actually a bad idea? There'd be no way back to farming meat, would there?
Cows seem to do alright in India.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
"Since I turned [insert diet here], I've felt better/more healthy" means nothing to me. You do you and if you feel the benefits, great. This doesn't mean my own body will react the same. Physically, we're all different.
Amen. A botle of red wine, 40 Marlboros and a couple of beers every day has kept me in good stead for years.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
48,857
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Cows seem to do alright in India.
Do they? They mostly look ill and are stick-thin. And they do occasionally eat a farmer's crops, cause trouble by wandering into traffic, carrying disease and so on. They are not looked after. Also, cows in Western farms have been bred to be milked. They need milking every day, otherwise they experience pain and/or infections.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
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Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
Do they? They mostly look ill and are stick-thin. And they do occasionally eat a farmer's crops, cause trouble by wandering into traffic, carrying disease and so on. They are not looked after. Also, cows in Western farms have been bred to be milked. They need milking every day, otherwise they experience pain and/or infections.
Isn't that one point that some people dislike - that they're kept pregnant to provide milk?
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
48,857
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Isn't that one point that some people dislike - that they're kept pregnant to provide milk?
Yes, but it's too late. You can't 'unbreed' them.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
48,857
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
But they would breed every year in the wild.
Would they?
The farmers would have to slaughter the last ones before going out of business, unless some were saved by environmentalists.
Then, there's the problem of... where would they be allowed to roam free? There are fewer and fewer wild spaces here in the UK - and there will be even fewer once all the land is dedicated to growing crops. All the land would be needed for crops or housing, because the population is expanding and we will all be vegetarians (apparently).
 

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,891
What I'd like to know is this:

What will happen to all the livestock breeds we will no longer need when/if we go over completely to veganism?
Would we let all these species just die out? After all, nobody will be farming them anymore.
So... would veganism be responsible for a mass extinction event?
Suppose we find out in the future that veganism is actually a bad idea? There'd be no way back to farming meat, would there?
We have had a vocal minority of people who have built their skeletons by drinking milk and consuming dairy products throughout their childhood and adolescence and then turning vegan aged 21 and claiming it has cured all their ailments and how they don’t need dairy etc.

What we don’t have are peer-reviewed studies of vegan babies raised on oat milk and soya and no dairy or shellfish (a major source of calcium for Asian populations who don’t consume dairy).
 

Kondoru

Antediluvian
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
9,671
Oh these folk arent interested in old fashioned ideas like nutrition.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
48,857
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Try a Google search under:

vegan child dies maln*

A lot of…interesting…news reports.

maximus otter
I also found this:
https://www.nichd.nih.gov/newsroom/news/122120-vegetarian-diets
Science Update: Vegetarian diets during pregnancy associated with small infant birth weight
Monday, December 21, 2020
Vegetarian diets during pregnancy are associated with small infant birth weight, but not a higher risk preterm birth or other medical complications, suggests a National Institutes of Health study. The smaller birth size may be attributable to less weight gain during pregnancy. The study appears in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
Researchers examined data on maternal and infant health outcomes from vegetarian diets among nearly 2,000 pregnant women at low risk for health complications. The primary author of the study was Samrawit F. Yisahak, Ph.D., a postdoctoral fellow in the Division of Intramural Population Health Research at NIH’s Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD).
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
11,534

Pret abandons vegetarian venture as novelty of meat-free branches wears off


Pret A Manger is axing almost all of its vegetarian-only stores as the novelty of meat-free branches wears off.

The sandwich chain is to shut or rebrand 75pc of its Veggie Pret stores six years after they first launched.

Four Veggie Pret stores have closed for good in recent months, while one in Canary Wharf has been converted into a regular Pret. The company is understood to be considering doing the same to two other branches in Manchester and London.

The pull back will leave just two Veggie Pret shops in London’s Soho and Shoreditch.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...egetarian-venture-novelty-meat-free-branches/

maximus otter
 

Tempest63

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
2,604

Pret abandons vegetarian venture as novelty of meat-free branches wears off


Pret A Manger is axing almost all of its vegetarian-only stores as the novelty of meat-free branches wears off.

The sandwich chain is to shut or rebrand 75pc of its Veggie Pret stores six years after they first launched.

Four Veggie Pret stores have closed for good in recent months, while one in Canary Wharf has been converted into a regular Pret. The company is understood to be considering doing the same to two other branches in Manchester and London.

The pull back will leave just two Veggie Pret shops in London’s Soho and Shoreditch.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...egetarian-venture-novelty-meat-free-branches/

maximus otter
I mistakenly picked up a couple of vegetarian ”sausage rolls” in M&S a few months back. First bite made me gag and both of them ended up in the bin. M&S had placed these exactly where the real sausage rolls were always kept in a hot cabinet without any warning signs such as “vomit inducing product”
I am not a great lover of Pret in any case but if their Veggie produce was anything as close to an M&S vegetarian sausage roll in flavour and texture, I think it is amazing they have lasted as long as they have.
 
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Endlessly Amazed

Endlessly, you know, amazed
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
1,195
Location
Arizona, USA
I have gastrointestinal woes which require life-long management. I stay away from vegetarian fake meat products because they often contain TSPP, a food additive. In the US, some seafoods do as well.

Tetrasodium pyrophosphate, also called sodium pyrophosphate, tetrasodium phosphate or TSPP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrasodium_pyrophosphate

This "harmless" food additive makes me violently ill within minutes of eating anything containing it. Even just a few bites. I will vomit for hours. My neurotic relationship with food continues to develop... :)
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
Have been buying these lately. Written on the back it says;

'Featuring Fat 2.0™
Fat makes animal-based meat taste lush. So - we invented FAT 2.0™ from olive oil and put it in these sausages. It crisps up, adds succulence and we patented it so you can't copy us. All it took was several million £, 6 food scientists and some olives'.


Not sure what the process involves, but they're very good.
 

Tunn11

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
1,213
Location
Under the highest tree top in Kent
Have been buying these lately. Written on the back it says;

'Featuring Fat 2.0™
Fat makes animal-based meat taste lush. So - we invented FAT 2.0™ from olive oil and put it in these sausages. It crisps up, adds succulence and we patented it so you can't copy us. All it took was several million £, 6 food scientists and some olives'.


Not sure what the process involves, but they're very good.
As long as you don't get "Fat 2.0™ The return: This time it's personal".
 

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,891
Have been buying these lately. Written on the back it says;

'Featuring Fat 2.0™
Fat makes animal-based meat taste lush. So - we invented FAT 2.0™ from olive oil and put it in these sausages. It crisps up, adds succulence and we patented it so you can't copy us. All it took was several million £, 6 food scientists and some olives'.


Not sure what the process involves, but they're very good.
Yummy pea protein:

"Keep in mind, though, that protein powder shouldn’t completely replace protein intake from food sources.

Protein foods like meat, fish, poultry, eggs and legumes are high in protein but also contain a wealth of other important nutrients that your body needs.

Pea protein is safe for most people and can be consumed with minimal risk of side effects. However, consuming protein in high amounts could cause several pea protein side effects.

In fact, research indicates that overdoing it on the protein could cause issues like weight gain, bone loss, kidney issues and impaired liver function.


In addition, it can be a bit more difficult to digest than other forms of plant protein, including hemp and brown rice, so it’s best to combine with other protein sources and mix it up."

https://draxe.com/nutrition/pea-protein/

Then no fewer than four thickeners added, all of which have industrial uses including one used as a lubricant for, ahem 'personal' usage and another as a bulking agent for constipation.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
Then no fewer than four thickeners added, all of which have industrial uses including one used as a lubricant for, ahem 'personal' usage and another as a bulking agent for constipation.
I must admit, constipation certainly isn't an issue after eating them.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
11,534

Vegan menu leaves Cambridge council with leftovers


Last year, when Cambridge city council voted to phase out serving meat and dairy at events and provide vegan alternatives, it was praised for leading the way on climate action.

But the plan has hit a big problem at the first hurdle: people do not want the food.

At the first civic event since the vote, a council report has revealed the vegan menu went down so badly that almost all of the food remained uneaten and had to be thrown away causing “significant food waste”.

It noted that only one in ten attendees tried the vegan options and some guests were left hungry because there was “an insufficient amount of food available that people wanted to eat”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vegan-menu-leaves-cambridge-council-with-leftovers-sdv87s9bv

maximus otter

 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
5,158
For so long, it was a struggle to get a 'vegetarian' option on menues. Leaving them off and including vegan sounds like accommodating both vegans and vegetarians but, as shown above, the options do have to be palatable. My daughter who was vegetarian for some time used to bemoan the vegetarian options in many pubs/restaurants as unimaginative and nothing she actually liked. She'd settle for a salad but found them boring.
 

Kondoru

Antediluvian
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
9,671
Oh, thats a shame; if I go to a supermarket with a salad bar, I always get a box.

(Says she who is suspicious of greens and not thrilled by cold food...)

You mean there is vegan food that is palatable?
 

Coal

The Ultimate Skepticus
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
9,515
As for liver and kidney issues- mine are a bit shot anyway to be fair. Although that could be down to the fact that last night I had a bottle of French red, a can of beer and half a bottle of white.
Again. :cool2:
 
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