The Vegetarian & Vegan Thread

[Analogue Boy]

I am.

 

[Floyd]

Things must be changing.

(Although it's very easy to get vegan 'butter/spread, so I'm not sure what the 'secret ingredients' are) ?

Why France is finding vegan croissants hard to stomach​

These croissants are for sale in a dairy-free bakery in Paris


There it sits, in all its flaky glory, with a crust the colour of autumn leaves, and two plump claws almost begging to be torn off and devoured. Light as air and as French as the guillotine.

One impeccable croissant.

But this particular pastry - among dozens crowding a display shelf in an unremarkable looking boulangerie in central Paris - is no ordinary offering. Far from it. For this is a butter-free croissant, a crisp swerve away from more than a century of devout culinary tradition and a nod towards larger forces seeking to reshape French food and agriculture.

Sacrilege has rarely looked so seductive.

"I'm changing the world," grinned Rodolphe Landemaine, between mouthfuls of a lovingly laminated, butter-free, pain au chocolat.
Landemaine, a baker, now owns five busy boulangeries in Paris, with more on the way in other French cities, all serving entirely dairy-free products to a mostly local clientele.

Not that he advertises the absence of butter, or eggs, or cows' milk, in his shops. Indeed, the word "vegan" never crosses his lips.
"It's not an easy word for French people to get used to. It's very difficult for them to give up on butter and eggs," he acknowledged, explaining that the idea of veganism is considered too "militant" for many.

Instead, Landemaine, a vegan with an interest in animal welfare and climate change, has adopted a stealthier approach, hoping customers will fall in love with his croissants, madeleines, quiches, sandwiches, flans and pains au raisins before they realise, too late, that butter has been replaced with a secret blend of plant-based products.


Baker Rodolphe Landemaine is a vegan and exploring dairy-free alternatives to traditional ingredients.

And if he can persuade conservative French taste buds to tolerate croissants "sans beurre" then perhaps, the argument goes, anything is possible.

As if on cue, a young boy walked past us, clutching the remains of a flaky claw, which he loudly declared to be délicieux.
"It tastes lighter," said a musician named Anne, 42, nibbling the end of her croissant.

"It's really good. I don't think I would recognise the difference," said Marta, a visitor from Poland, of her pain au chocolat. She's not a vegan but noted that she often got a scathing look from French waiters if she ordered oat milk with her coffee.

"I see the judgement in their eyes because it's just not part of their culture," she added.

For a country grappling with all sorts of new influences, such as challenges to its long-standing policy of state secularism, or le wokisme of imported "Anglo-Saxon" culture wars, a few unusual pastries can hardly be considered a major threat.

And yet the issue brushes some raw nerves here, from French people's deep but evolving relationship with the terroir or land, to the escalating farmers' protests across Europe, to the upheavals brought on by climate change commitments, to France's almost religious devotion to certain culinary customs.

"Not for me, no way," said Thierry Loussakoueno, with mild indignation, appalled by the very idea of a butter-free croissant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68944117

 

[Min Bannister]

Instead, Landemaine, a vegan with an interest in animal welfare and climate change, has adopted a stealthier approach, hoping customers will fall in love with his croissants, madeleines, quiches, sandwiches, flans and pains au raisins before they realise, too late, that butter has been replaced with a secret blend of plant-based products.

So he is secretly feeding people highly processed non-foods in the hope that they get addicted? No thanks.

 

[maximus otter]

…Landemaine, a vegan with an interest in animal welfare and climate change…

In other words, a man who could light up a room simply by leaving it.

maximus otter

 

[kesavaross]

I keep reading his name as Landmine.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Things must be changing.

(Although it's very easy to get vegan 'butter/spread, so I'm not sure what the 'secret ingredients' are) ?

Why France is finding vegan croissants hard to stomach​

These croissants are for sale in a dairy-free bakery in Paris


There it sits, in all its flaky glory, with a crust the colour of autumn leaves, and two plump claws almost begging to be torn off and devoured. Light as air and as French as the guillotine.

One impeccable croissant.

But this particular pastry - among dozens crowding a display shelf in an unremarkable looking boulangerie in central Paris - is no ordinary offering. Far from it. For this is a butter-free croissant, a crisp swerve away from more than a century of devout culinary tradition and a nod towards larger forces seeking to reshape French food and agriculture.

Sacrilege has rarely looked so seductive.

"I'm changing the world," grinned Rodolphe Landemaine, between mouthfuls of a lovingly laminated, butter-free, pain au chocolat.
Landemaine, a baker, now owns five busy boulangeries in Paris, with more on the way in other French cities, all serving entirely dairy-free products to a mostly local clientele.

Not that he advertises the absence of butter, or eggs, or cows' milk, in his shops. Indeed, the word "vegan" never crosses his lips.
"It's not an easy word for French people to get used to. It's very difficult for them to give up on butter and eggs," he acknowledged, explaining that the idea of veganism is considered too "militant" for many.

Instead, Landemaine, a vegan with an interest in animal welfare and climate change, has adopted a stealthier approach, hoping customers will fall in love with his croissants, madeleines, quiches, sandwiches, flans and pains au raisins before they realise, too late, that butter has been replaced with a secret blend of plant-based products.


Baker Rodolphe Landemaine is a vegan and exploring dairy-free alternatives to traditional ingredients.

And if he can persuade conservative French taste buds to tolerate croissants "sans beurre" then perhaps, the argument goes, anything is possible.

As if on cue, a young boy walked past us, clutching the remains of a flaky claw, which he loudly declared to be délicieux.
"It tastes lighter," said a musician named Anne, 42, nibbling the end of her croissant.

"It's really good. I don't think I would recognise the difference," said Marta, a visitor from Poland, of her pain au chocolat. She's not a vegan but noted that she often got a scathing look from French waiters if she ordered oat milk with her coffee.

"I see the judgement in their eyes because it's just not part of their culture," she added.

For a country grappling with all sorts of new influences, such as challenges to its long-standing policy of state secularism, or le wokisme of imported "Anglo-Saxon" culture wars, a few unusual pastries can hardly be considered a major threat.

And yet the issue brushes some raw nerves here, from French people's deep but evolving relationship with the terroir or land, to the escalating farmers' protests across Europe, to the upheavals brought on by climate change commitments, to France's almost religious devotion to certain culinary customs.

"Not for me, no way," said Thierry Loussakoueno, with mild indignation, appalled by the very idea of a butter-free croissant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68944117

Was reading this earlier and it got me thinking that - in common with all such articles - it is implied his vegan pastries are replacing traditional butter ones and here are some outraged French people who can't contemplate a life without butter. No, he is simply offering a choice and customers who want butter can go elsewhere. Perhaps he could be more upfront, but these are just 5 of 1.800 + such bakeries in Paris alone and customers can always ask if he uses butter. Does everything have to be viewed through the prism of culture wars?

 

[Floyd]

Does everything have to be viewed through the prism of culture wars?

Yes.

And I've been using vegan spreads for a few years now and I've even had some very good vegetarian croissants too.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I keep reading his name as Landmine.

No doubt he was a bombastic fellow.

 

[JamesWhitehead]

I remember that quite a few gluten-free croissants made the error of omitting the butter, as well.

What a waste of time they were!

I have had one or two passable ones since but croissants are near impossible to get right in GF-land.

Maybe I should be glad. My two-croissant breakfast habit made me put on weight, when we still had a craft baker over the road!

Imported French flour too! Even back in the day they cost as much each as supermarkets charged for four! Happy days, though!

 

[Mungoman]

Was reading this earlier and it got me thinking that - in common with all such articles - it is implied his vegan pastries are replacing traditional butter ones and here are some outraged French people who can't contemplate a life without butter. No, he is simply offering a choice and customers who want butter can go elsewhere. Perhaps he could be more upfront, but these are just 5 of 1.800 + such bakeries in Paris alone and customers can always ask if he uses butter. Does everything have to be viewed through the prism of culture wars?

Didn't social justice warriors create it...? And is it up to us mundanes to ameliorate the situation?

 

[Floyd]

So he is secretly feeding people highly processed non-foods in the hope that they get addicted? No thanks.

I use a couple of vegan 'spreads', Flora being the one I have in now.
I don't know whether any of the ingredients here are dodgy - although I don't use it that often anyway;

• Plant Oils (Rapeseed, Sunflower, Linseed),
• Water,
• Coconut Fat,
• Salt (1.3%),
• Plant Based Emulsifier (Lecithin),
• Faba Bean preparation,
• Natural Flavourings,
• Vitamin A

 

[Min Bannister]

I use a couple of vegan 'spreads', Flora being the one I have in now.
I don't know whether any of the ingredients here are dodgy - although I don't use it that often anyway;

• Plant Oils (Rapeseed, Sunflower, Linseed),
• Water,
• Coconut Fat,
• Salt (1.3%),
• Plant Based Emulsifier (Lecithin),
• Faba Bean preparation,
• Natural Flavourings,
• Vitamin A

Do you actually know what all of those things are? Faba bean preparation? Plant based emulsifier? Where do "natural flavourings" come from? But I bet you know what butter is. Manufacturers use terms like "plant based" and "natural" but they are actually completely meaningless and those ingredients are really just something that has come out of a chemistry lab.

In case you can't tell, I really hate the misinformation from the food industry and get a bit ranty.

 

[Floyd]

Do you actually know what all of those things are?

As I said;
I don't know whether any of the ingredients here are dodgy............

 

[Floyd]

In other words, a man who could light up a room simply by leaving it.

maximus otter

Now now Max me lad, you care about animal welfare just as much as I do.

You wouldn't shoot a deer unless you knew you had a clean shot.
Correct?

 

[maximus otter]

Now now Max me lad, you care about animal welfare just as much as I do.

You wouldn't shoot a deer unless you knew you had a clean shot.
Correct?

Correct.

maximus otter

 

[Stormkhan]

In case you can't tell, I really hate the misinformation from the food industry and get a bit ranty.

When we joined the pet food industry, we became adept at understanding all the misinformation within it - as used by the giant producers. We didn't want to do the same, and ended up far more informed.

 

[Shady]

I love Swedish Glace ice cream, 750ml (and its vegan and it is delicious, so darn creamy, my friend (i miss this amazing woman) introduced me to it when i went for dinner one day, now it is the only ice cream i will have, dont like any of the others anymore, i used to love chunky monkey, nope it tastes pathetic at the side of this one, and its great as i am having a tad of a problem with real milk, especially cheese, even tho i can eat the cream cheese, at the moment i have a love for Castelello pineapple and almond cream cheese, delicious. I love one of the ingredients in this ice cream, exhausted vanilla bean pieces, WTF what they doing, making them run a marathon, those poor lil beans

 

[Eyespy]

Do you actually know what all of those things are? Faba bean preparation? Plant based emulsifier? Where do "natural flavourings" come from? But I bet you know what butter is. Manufacturers use terms like "plant based" and "natural" but they are actually completely meaningless and those ingredients are really just something that has come out of a chemistry lab.

In case you can't tell, I really hate the misinformation from the food industry and get a bit ranty.

I’m with Min on this, I really don’t care what people eat- but I do worry about the processing, sourcing and misinformation that surrounds many ingredients.
I fear that the production of many plant alternatives are at least as destructive as animal based products and probably have a higher carbon footprint due to transportation and processing requirements.

what you eat should be your choice, but make it an informed choice.

 

[maximus otter]

…the production of many plant alternatives are at least as destructive as animal based products and probably have a higher carbon footprint due to transportation and processing requirements.

Indeed. “Environmentally-conscious” vegetarians might want to have a look at a world globe while considering the sources of tofu, quinoa, coconuts, avocados, açai berries, halloumi, chickpeas…

maximus otter

 

[Floyd]

Indeed. “Environmentally-conscious” vegetarians might want to have a look at a world globe while considering the sources of tofu, quinoa, coconuts, avocados, açai berries, halloumi, chickpeas…

maximus otter

Trouble is, because we can't seem to produce very much of our own stuff and become a bit more self-reliant, it's not going to change.
Whether you're vegetarian or not, most of us like salads and/or fruits.

 

[Kondoru]

Yes, and I am against this idea of seasonal fruits, largely because I am old enough to recall what it was like.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

I love Swedish Glace ice cream, 750ml (and its vegan and it is delicious, so darn creamy, my friend (i miss this amazing woman) introduced me to it when i went for dinner one day, now it is the only ice cream i will have, dont like any of the others anymore, i used to love chunky monkey, nope it tastes pathetic at the side of this one, and its great as i am having a tad of a problem with real milk, especially cheese, even tho i can eat the cream cheese, at the moment i have a love for Castelello pineapple and almond cream cheese, delicious. I love one of the ingredients in this ice cream, exhausted vanilla bean pieces, WTF what they doing, making them run a marathon, those poor lil beans

My dairy intolerant sister introduced us to Swedish Glace back in the early 1990s when it was only sold in health food stores. It became a family favourite on trips back home to accompany my mother's fantastic dairy free fruit crumbles etc. But then it got bought out by Unilever who have since changed the recipe and made it less creamy, much lighter and I suspect containing more air and so I stopped buying it. Then I also became more aware of the ingredients:

This product contains: Water, sugar, glucose syrup, glucose-fructose syrup, coconut fat, dextrose, SOY powder (2%), stabilisers (locust bean gum, guar gum, carrageenan), flavouring, emulsifier (mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids), salt, exhausted vanilla bean pieces, colour (carotenes).

The dreaded glucose-fructose syrup:

Fructose also promotes visceral fat accumulation. Visceral fat surrounds your organs and is the most harmful type of body fat. It's linked to health issues like diabetes and heart disease ( 8 , 15 ).27 Sept 2019

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/why-high-fructose-corn-syrup-is-bad#:~:text=Increases your risk of obesity and weight gain&text=Fructose also promotes visceral fat,disease ( 8 , 15 ).

... bet that wasn't in there before Unilever bought it.

 

[hunck]

Indeed. “Environmentally-conscious” vegetarians might want to have a look at a world globe while considering the sources of tofu, quinoa, coconuts, avocados, açai berries, halloumi, chickpeas…

maximus otter

Since man-made global warming isn’t a thing anyway, what does it matter? Let’s fly everything in - I want my Kenyan fine beans.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Uh-oh, plants talk to each other:

Scientists Film Plant 'Talking' to Its Neighbor, And The Video Is Incredible​

https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...g-to-its-neighbor-and-the-video-is-incredible

Looks like we will all have to become Fruitarians: how can people keep plants as their 'pets 'and yet still buy plants from the supermarket that were screaming as they were cruelly ripped out of the soil and eat them...?!? etc etc...

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Judging by the piles of price reduced fake meats in Tesco today it looks like they are giving up on their attempt to greenwash their eco credentials by foisting ultra-processed fake meats on its customers. Despite promotional emails, Clubcard coupons and Clubcard prices thankfully vegans, veggies and omnivores have rejected these unhealthy products from the likes of Unilver. The dedicated shelf space now actually has cartons of tofu, although they have relocated all the ultra-processed Quorn fake ham, chicken etc from other shelves to fill the gaps.

 

[escargot]

Uh-oh, plants talk to each other:

Scientists Film Plant 'Talking' to Its Neighbor, And The Video Is Incredible​

https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...g-to-its-neighbor-and-the-video-is-incredible

Looks like we will all have to become Fruitarians: how can people keep plants as their 'pets 'and yet still buy plants from the supermarket that were screaming as they were cruelly ripped out of the soil and eat them...?!? etc etc...

Reminds me of this -

Amateur scientist Mr. Klausner invents a sound machine that can detect sounds so quiet he can hear plants.

 

[Shady]

My dairy intolerant sister introduced us to Swedish Glace back in the early 1990s when it was only sold in health food stores. It became a family favourite on trips back home to accompany my mother's fantastic dairy free fruit crumbles etc. But then it got bought out by Unilever who have since changed the recipe and made it less creamy, much lighter and I suspect containing more air and so I stopped buying it. Then I also became more aware of the ingredients:

This product contains: Water, sugar, glucose syrup, glucose-fructose syrup, coconut fat, dextrose, SOY powder (2%), stabilisers (locust bean gum, guar gum, carrageenan), flavouring, emulsifier (mono- and diglycerides of fatty acids), salt, exhausted vanilla bean pieces, colour (carotenes).

The dreaded glucose-fructose syrup:

Fructose also promotes visceral fat accumulation. Visceral fat surrounds your organs and is the most harmful type of body fat. It's linked to health issues like diabetes and heart disease ( 8 , 15 ).27 Sept 2019

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/why-high-fructose-corn-syrup-is-bad#:~:text=Increases your risk of obesity and weight gain&text=Fructose also promotes visceral fat,disease ( 8 , 15 ).

... bet that wasn't in there before Unilever bought it.

omg im stopping that then, ill have to look for something else

 

[Analogue Boy]

Always read the label.

 

[Tunn11]

 

[Floyd]

@Paul_Exeter @Min Bannister

I have to admit, I'm beginning to wonder if my stomach problems of the last few years are down to vegetarian 'meat'.

I do know that they can cause problems for some people (as if sometimes says so on the packaging).

There can be anywhere from two weeks to six months in between bouts, so I'm not 100% sure (and it might only be certain products, not all of them) but I am off the stuff for a while now as a test.