The Whinge Thread, Resurrected

brownmane

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
385
Likes
697
Points
93
Location
Ontario, Canada
So we now have the ability to vote online, but I don't trust what info the different levels of gov't have and how accurate it is. In order to vote online, you have to verify some sort of personal info (I don't know specifically what as I won't do it) to prove it is you, online.

I stood in line last year to vote in person and happened to overhear the person two ahead of me say that he came in person because he tried to vote online and didn't have the same info as the gov't to verify that it was really him.

So how do you prove your identity if the gov't believes that it infallibly has the correct info and you have the real info?
 

Krepostnoi

Crabbier than usual, Buster
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
2,534
Likes
4,312
Points
159
Never thought of that!

Right enough, completey mad!

View attachment 17675
Although, of course, to obtain a firearms certificate, you'll need to provide one legible photocopy of a valid passport, a photo card national identity card, a current full UK driving licence, or a fishing license...
 

Floyd1

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
304
Likes
439
Points
63
I thought a birth certificate was the most 'powerful' form of, er a form. A few years ago I was getting into law and all it's loopholes etc. There's a video somewhere where a judge asks the court if ''Mr Jones is in court'' and a chap stood up saying ''Yes he's here'' while waving a birth certificate (of said Mr Jones). The judge asked the chap if HE was Mr Jones and the chap just said 'Mr Jones is in court'.
 

Comfortably Numb

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
2,911
Likes
3,565
Points
153
Location
Phone
Although, of course, to obtain a firearms certificate, you'll need to provide one legible photocopy of a valid passport, a photo card national identity card, a current full UK driving licence...
Out of curiosity, had a look at the firearms certificate application form 201, available here:

https://www.scotland.police.uk/about-us/finance/service-fees-and-charges/firearms/

Unless mistaken, I can see no requirement for any documents validating your identity or address - just details of your GP...
 

Comfortably Numb

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
2,911
Likes
3,565
Points
153
Location
Phone
You can obtain a great many things that seemed impossible once you first obtain a firearm.
:( :mad:

Tried an online experiment just now.

Result...

Thank you for applying for an Amazon Classic Mastercard. We have reviewed your application but we need some further information before we make a decision.

In order for us to proceed, we require a document as proof of identification. Please supply a copy of one of the following documents:

Valid Passport
Photo card national identity card
Photo card Drivers Licence inc provisional
Full UK paper driving licence
UK Firearms Licence


I suspect the underlying issue is that I'm no longer located on the electoral register, as a consequence of the new address and that's the first thing checked.

I believe the phrase is, 'snookered'...
 

Tempest63

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
222
Likes
522
Points
99
Apparently, from what I can see in your list of options, all you need to do is legally buy a gun! WTF?
I note in the photo that it says firearms licence. I have a shotgun certificate but not a firearms certificate. I do have friends with a firearms certificate but not a licence. Bit of smoke and mirrors or is it Government departments not conversing with each other?
 

Comfortably Numb

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
2,911
Likes
3,565
Points
153
Location
Phone
I note in the photo that it says firearms licence. I have a shotgun certificate but not a firearms certificate. I do have friends with a firearms certificate but not a licence...
Does this help?

https://www.staffordshire.police.uk...he-difference-between-a-Shotgun-and-a-Firearm

Still confused... which licence/certificate is easier to obtain?

Noted it says elsewhere from an online query:

"You can get a firearm or shotgun certificate application form from the firearms licensing unit of your local police force. You must: complete an application form. ... have 2 referees for a firearm certificate and 1 referee for a shotgun certificate".

So, it's simpler if we apply to legally own a shotgun?
 

Comfortably Numb

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
2,911
Likes
3,565
Points
153
Location
Phone
Just to clarify: there is no such thing as a “gun license” in the UK; nor indeed a “firearm license” or “shotgun license”. There is a “Firearm Certificate” or a “Shotgun Certificate
If you might please have a moment to clarify further, can you buy a firearm and then apply for a certificate, or is essential you have that certificate beforehand?
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
3,971
Likes
6,981
Points
234
If you might please have a moment to clarify further, can you buy a firearm and then apply for a certificate, or is essential you have that certificate beforehand?
In order to buy and take possession of a firearm, one has to have the appropriate certificate beforehand.

In a shortened precis thumbnail of a gist, the emphasis is as follows: a potential purchaser has to prove that he needs a firearm in order to get an FAC; in the case of a shotgun, the police have to prove that he doesn’t need a shotgun in order to deny him an SGC.
The difference between a Shotgun and a Firearm.

There are two principal ways to establish need for an FAC:

a) Membership of an appropriate gun club, or;

b) Being a farmer/landowner/gamekeeper/pest controller or the like.

If following route (a), most gun clubs will require one to be a member for at least six months, and to attend a certain number of times. During this period the applicant will be mentored closely. He will be expected to attain familiarity with different types and calibres of firearm. He will also be trained to earn his Shooter Certification Card, a basic qualification in safety.

After the six month probationary period has been successfully completed, the club will support the new member’s application for a Firearm Certificate. The member can then download and complete the appropriate police form, and send it to his local police HQ. A Firearms Enquiry Officer will then attend the applicant’s address, discuss the firearms for which the applicant has made his case, and verify that there is secure storage for the firearms. If there are no issues, the FAC will be granted, and the applicant may then purchase and take home the firearms specified on his new FAC. (“Specified” in this context is tight. An example might be “One .22LR semi-automatic rifle”, or “One .223 bolt action rifle”.)

It all sounds very bureaucratic and tiresome, but the whole club membership and training part is simply fun with a great bunch of people. It’s all calculated to ensure that one’s actual application should “run on rails”.

A few numbers from the goobermunt as of 2018:

FACs in the UK: 157,581

SGCs: 567,047

Applications for grant of new FAC: 9,696

Proportion of those refused: 2%

maximus otter
 

Krepostnoi

Crabbier than usual, Buster
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
2,534
Likes
4,312
Points
159
That's just brilliant - thanks so much.

Will try to fully digest all of this later on!
I was going to suggest it would be much more straightforward to apply for a provisional driving licence. But as though to prove my fishing licence analogy, you need to prove your ID with a passport...

One measures a circle, beginning anywhere.
 
Top