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There Is No Conspiracy!

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Anonymous

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THER IS NO CONSPIRACY!

Has any conspiracy ever been proven to be anything other than a dumb ass theory? The “American government knew about in advance or was responsible for 9/11” is a good example of this. There seems to be several variations of this one. In order for any of them to be true there would have to be an amazing network of coconspirators. Who was flying the planes? Who ever was would have to be in on it and also suicidal. Was it the regular pilots? Are must we believe that the planes were flown by remote control? If so, how did this happen without anyone knowing? Were the normal planes switched out for remote control ones at the airport or did they modify them for remote control. How did they do this without anyone knowing? It is without a doubt in any sane persons mind that the United States government did not commit these attacks. Nor did they know about them in advance. Obviously we/they knew about a generalized threat from O.B.L. . But no one knew what/when/were except Laden and co. Right now in America there is a general feeling that we will be hit with a nuke or a “dirty” bomb. It will more than likely destroy a city and the death toll will be in the millions. I know this will happen. I am sure the government knows also. But do they know all the exact details? No. No one does. Except for a few rich middle age men in the middle east with an axe to grind. There is no conspiracy. :grrr:
 
That's just what They want you to think...;)
 
Just one thought:

How many conspiracies were floating about in 1950's america? Not many, if any, in mainstream media or thought. The government was the people's friend and protector.

Now, how many after Watergate?
 
No. This is based on fact. We know that these weapons exist. Nukes small enough to fit in a briefcase. They are also obtainable by those who would use them against us. 9/11 showed that they do not have a problem killing a large number of Americans. We just took down -in three weeks- a regime that had been in power for thirty years. One that was by all accounts sympathetic to A.Q.s cause. There will be a reprisal. Most people -at least were I live- think it will be nuclear. It likely will be. Will I blame the U.S. government when it does? No. In order to prevent this they would have to locate, interrogate, and expel everyone in this country that fits a certain profile. There not going to do that.
 
siriuss said:
Just one thought:

How many conspiracies were floating about in 1950's america? Not many, if any, in mainstream media or thought. The government was the people's friend and protector.
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Actually a few, but they were all plots against America by Red Subversives and Commie Pinkoes intent on polluting the nation's precious bodily fluids.
 
makayavodou said:
No. This is based on fact. We know that these weapons exist. Nukes small enough to fit in a briefcase.
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Pedantic point, but the terrorists don't need -and probably don't possess- the technological capability to put actual nukes in briefcases (although there's no doubt they have enough knowledge to do so). The briefcase bomb WMDs the US really has to worry about are the 'dirty bombs': devices no more powerful than conventional car bombs so far as explosive power is concerned, but which spread lethal radioactives in densely populated -or in highly valuable- districts. I keep getting the feeling -altho' it's probably just my imagination- that some posters on the board are failing to realize that there is a distinction.
 
Emperor Zombie said:
So we have Commie Pinkoes and Red Subversives to thank for Watergate?

;)
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Well yeah. Richard Milhouse Nixon made his name with the HUAC hearings and the Alger Hiss case after all.

;)
 
Ok communists aside, I was trying to (rather simplistically) exemplify the change in attitudes of the American population to their government from the 50's to now, to show it is not so important to understand whether a conspiracy is true or not but to understand why they are so prevalent and (in terms of history) mainstream nowadays. Perhaps it is because no-one trusts the government anymore and it is a short step from not trusting your government to operate in your best interests, to believing that they are operating contradictory to them.

and try not to turn this into a 'is america right or wrong thtread"
 
makayavodou said:
No. This is based on fact. We know that these weapons exist. Nukes small enough to fit in a briefcase. They are also obtainable by those who would use them against us. 9/11 showed that they do not have a problem killing a large number of Americans. We just took down -in three weeks- a regime that had been in power for thirty years. One that was by all accounts sympathetic to A.Q.s cause. There will be a reprisal. Most people -at least were I live- think it will be nuclear. It likely will be. Will I blame the U.S. government when it does? No. In order to prevent this they would have to locate, interrogate, and expel everyone in this country that fits a certain profile. There not going to do that.
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conspiricies are born of a climat of fear.

I think your post illistrats this perfectly. Open the window and breath in all that lovely air, the smell of the flowers, the boys/ girls (dfelete where aproperate) in their summer clothing, children playing in the parks...

Oh yea: what about Watergate?
 
makayavodou said:
No. This is based on fact. We know that these weapons exist. Nukes small enough to fit in a briefcase.
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Actually, you 'know' bugger all. You choose to believe what you are told. There is a difference.
 
Cavynaut said:
Actually, you 'know' bugger all. You choose to believe what you are told. There is a difference.
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a tad tatchy that :eek!!!!:

But...what is it about America post 9/11? They're jumping at their own shadows.
 
Actualy it reminds me of the 'Brief history of America' in Bowling for Columbine.'
 
<<conspiricies are born of a climat of fear>>


I fear man nor beast. Overall there is very little fear among Americans. Most Americans are not afraid to go about there lives as usual. No matter what happens, all in all it wont be enough to change the way we do things. Terrorism is futile. No matter if they leveled a city or unleashed some kind of chemical or germ into the population.
 
It's important to make a distinction here - there's a big difference between a Government witholding sensitive information, ie intelligence, and a Government actively lying to it's populace.

"Conspiracy", in the context in which we are discussing it here, falls into the latter category: so yes, Watergate was a conspiracy, as was Irangate, as is potentially the "sexed-up" dossier on Iraq's WMD capacity...
 
makayavodou said:
<<conspiricies are born of a climat of fear>>


I fear man nor beast. Overall there is very little fear among Americans. Most Americans are not afraid to go about there lives as usual. No matter what happens, all in all it wont be enough to change the way we do things. Terrorism is futile. No matter if they leveled a city or unleashed some kind of chemical or germ into the population.
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but yet you are convinced that there will be a 'dirty bomb' let off in a major city?
 
stu neville said:
It's important to make a distinction here - there's a big difference between a Government witholding sensitive information, ie intelligence, and a Government actively lying to it's populace.

"Conspiracy", in the context in which we are discussing it here, falls into the latter category: so yes, Watergate was a conspiracy, as was Irangate, as is potentially the "sexed-up" dossier on Iraq's WMD capacity...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use the word 'posibly' about the WMD report.

And look out people here comes the cover up! An enquiry who will meet behind closed doors, who's findings will be secret, who will report only to the PM?
 
Re: THER IS NO CONSPIRACY!

Sorry to do this makayavodou but this quote shows a climate of fear to me as does the run on guns in the US after 9/11 and the run on gas masks, the constent upgrading to high alert from your goverment.

makayavodou said:
Right now in America there is a general feeling that we will be hit with a nuke or a “dirty” bomb. It will more than likely destroy a city and the death toll will be in the millions. I know this will happen. I am sure the government knows also. But do they know all the exact details? No. No one does. :
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In comparison there has been a new text alert system introduced in Oxfordshire but noone seems that intrested.
 
May I also say that conspiricie theories are the life blood of democrosy. It alows us to chalange those in power and ask them rather pertenent questions.
 
<<Unfortunately, as 9/11 proved, Terrorism isn't futile...and as Bali and Casablanca proved, its also quite relentless.>>


9/11 did not change our mid east polices. In fact I would say that it backfired on the perpetrators. They now must conduct there affairs under extremely tight scrutiny from our intelligence works. We also put the Talban out of commission and over threw the Bath party in Iraq.


<<but yet you are convinced that there will be a 'dirty bomb' let off in a major city?>>

Why should we fear that? We are doing every rational thing possible to prevent it. But if/when it happens……………it happens. This mindset is the power we have over them. They have resorted time and again to the most dispirit means possible of getting there point across and it haven’t changed anything. We have already won the war on terror.
 
siriuss said:
Just one thought:

How many conspiracies were floating about in 1950's america? Not many, if any, in mainstream media or thought. The government was the people's friend and protector.
Click to expand...
You've obviously forgotten about, Joe McCarthy and his anti-communist witchunts.

A Red Under Every Bed. In the Whitehouse, Pentagon and in Hollywood, too.

Conspiracies? Perhaps, then, everybody was looking in the wrong direction?

Here's Alger Hiss, on 'McCarthy Periiod.'
 
AndroMan said:
You've obviously forgotten about, Joe McCarthy and his anti-communist witchunts.

A Red Under Every Bed. In the Whitehouse, Pentagon and in Hollywood, too.

Conspiracies? Perhaps, then, everybody was looking in the wrong direction?

Here's Alger Hiss, on 'McCarthy Periiod.'
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that WAS the great conspiricy. Noone looks at what the goverment's doing (feeding acid to servicemen, pescribing speed to housewifes) because they're to buisy looking at the nasty commies.
 
Alger Hiss (Alger Hiss Website)

Alger Hiss in 1980
More importantly, the nation was deprived for years to come of the independent thought and initiative of many citizens who were either cowed by the fates of the victims or simply wanted "to avoid trouble." Caute summarized some of the lasting results for the land of the free:

".... The long shadow of the security officer fell across factories, dockyards, ships, offices. A generation of workers learned to conform or to move on.... But in the process careers were ruined beyond retrieve, marriages broke up, children were alienated and abused, fathers sat for hours stunned, staring blankly at the wall."
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But it did lead to the director of Zulu coming over here so it wasn't all bad.
 
Purely out of interest, who are "they"? Would this be the same "they", albeit under a different guise, who, as Androman points out were the focus of so much fear and conspirarcy during the mid-20th century?

If "they" have biological/nuclear/chemical weapons then why haven't they been used? As far as I know, only "we" have used such things.

Terrorism has always existed and always will until every person on the planet agrees with and trust their government (which, lets face it, isn't going to happen).

Jane.
 
makayavodou said:
Terrorism is futile.
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That rather ignores the lessons of history. Look at the role that terrorism played in the establishment of the Israeli state.
 
mejane said:
Terrorism has always existed and always will until every person on the planet agrees with and trust their government (which, lets face it, isn't going to happen).

Jane.
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Or untill there is no more groups or whole countries shat upon in the name of profit or religion or...
 
I don't know if this counts as conspiricy in the full meaning here (which seems to indicate deadly murderous intent) but didn't the government here infect the Tuskeegee Airmen with syphallis in the 40's to chart it's effects?

And were some retarded children who were a part of a government-funded free milk program given radiation in their milk so doctors could find out what radiation exposure did?

In both of those cases, the government actually harmed innocent citizens for their own end. So maybe belief in the possibility in a government conspiricy makes sense, since we know it has happened before.

And just thinking about it, there was a documentary on Waco that I saw that showed infra-red footage of what sure looked like the FBI starting the fire at the Koresh compound, that the government denies is what it is even though they shot the footage themselves. In that case, I doubt it was as much conspiricy as stupidity.
 
AndroMan said:
You've obviously forgotten about, Joe McCarthy and his anti-communist witchunts.

A Red Under Every Bed. In the Whitehouse, Pentagon and in Hollywood, too.

Conspiracies? Perhaps, then, everybody was looking in the wrong direction?

Here's Alger Hiss, on 'McCarthy Periiod.'
Click to expand...


Ah, my American history is not all that great. Had quaint black and white images of carefree couples buying their first TV and cadillac going through my head.

Still, do you not agree that conspiracies are now more widely accepted, more prevalent and have greater support then in times past, e.g. 1950's. And that this is demonstrative of a distinct lack of trust within the public psyche for the ruling powers, brought about by incidents like Watergate, McCarthyism, etc.
 
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