Things That Make You Go... WTF?

Ladyloafer

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It's stupid, I agree, but the logic (ropey though it is) is missing from the dodgy Guardian article.

The pregnant mother who was charged initiated the fight and the person who shot her was defending herself from the attack.

The woman wasn't charged because the state allows one to shoot in self-defence under defined conditions.

The argument, therefore, is that the five-month-pregnant mother acted recklessly and that her recklessness resulted in the death of the unborn child.

The argument, incidentally, was linked with the dead child's father.

Details here:
https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019/06/charges-in-marshae-jones-case-explained.html
thanks for that. it does explain it very well. its still rough though imo.
 

EnolaGaia

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Here's the key factor (from the link Yith cited above):

A section of Alabama Law allows authorities to charge a suspect with the murder of another human being, including an unborn child. According to Alabama Code 13A-6-1, the term "person," when referring to the victim of a criminal homicide or assault, means a human being, including an unborn-child in utero at any stage of development, regardless of viability.
This legal definition of "person" under Alabama law is intimately related to the legal context within which that state has instituted some of the strictest anti-abortion legislation in the US.

The status of a fetus as a legal "person" is one of the key issues in the long-running abortion wars.
 

Tempest63

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Swifty I think some people have no idea of personal space.
I get the 05.29 train in the morning, I amble down to the station in time to get a coffee and then wander to a spot where I know the doors will be when the train stops. Even though the trains have lots of room there is a guy who appears a couple of minutes before the train arrives and stands literally shoulder to shoulder with me, touching shoulders. Complete and utter wanker!
 

Austin Popper

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Many years ago, I was flying home from a wedding a couple of time zones away. All went smoothly until we got to St. Louis, where I changed planes. There was something wrong with the plane I was supposed to board, so all us passengers for that flight got shuffled from gate to gate while TWA kept coming up with a new plan every 20 minutes. Finally, we were sent to a gate where an L-1011 sat waiting for us. Then we had to wait for a crew to be rounded up. The gate attendant gave up on trying to figure out seat assignments and said, "There are five seats for each passenger, so just sit where you like."

I found a seat next to a window in business class. There were maybe four other people in the whole section. Those were big planes. Just about the time we were finished boarding, a young woman in expensive looking clothes walked in and made a bee line for me. Of course she sat right next to me and began chattering about her trip to Australia or somewhere. I was tired and a little bit shocked at the rudeness of it. I grunted something about that being nice and opened a magazine. She kept rattling on, as if she hadn't seen another human in a month or two. It was a short flight so I let her jabber away since it was easier than getting rid of her. By the time we landed, she had either run down or figured out I was not the least bit interested in her vacation or what she planned to do when she got home.

I don't fly anymore if I can avoid it. I'll take an extra week and drive if I can make that work. After digging up some numbers, I figured out it takes about the same amount of fuel either way. Flying is just hugely faster and vastly more annoying.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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It's stupid, I agree, but the logic (ropey though it is) is missing from the dodgy Guardian article.

The pregnant mother who was charged initiated the fight and the person who shot her was defending herself from the attack.

The woman wasn't charged because the state allows one to shoot in self-defence under defined conditions.

The argument, therefore, is that the five-month-pregnant mother acted recklessly and that her recklessness resulted in the death of the unborn child.

The argument, incidentally, was linked with the dead child's father.

Details here:
https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019/06/charges-in-marshae-jones-case-explained.html
In a jaw-droppingly crass Guardian article they compare the violent attack instigated by Marshae Jones, resulting in the death of her baby, to eating blue cheese or picking up an infection from cat litter:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...us-not-survive-trip-down-birth-canal#comments
 

hunck

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If he stands any closer his glasses will steam up when I exhale
It'd be good if you could summon a really loud fart when you're rubbing shoulders, just to see what the reaction is..

Suggestion - record a juicy one on your phone next time you've got one brewing, playback at sufficient volume whilst making an appropriate movement when he's next to you.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Tempest63

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Foul smelling Devil breath from other commuters first thing in the morning.
Do these peeps not buy toothpaste or mouthwash.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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try reading the article rather than the first paragraph - hope this helps.
I did. Just as I also read this follow-up editorial, in which The Guardian keeps banging the same old drum:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...women-marshae-jones-manslaughter-unborn-child

The Guardian also tried to play up the racial aspects of the incident, whilst omitting the fact that the woman Jones attacked - Ebony Jemison, was also black.
Jemison is on record as expressing sympathy with Jones having lost her baby and wishes she could turn back the clock and said “I don’t feel she should be charged with manslaughter because she didn’t go upon killing her baby herself. But she should be charged with child endangerment or assault or something like that. I feel that if the baby had to be counted as a person, I don’t feel [the grand jury] is wrong for indicting her because you initially put your child in danger,”
 

Naughty_Felid

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I did. Just as I also read this follow-up editorial, in which The Guardian keeps banging the same old drum:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...women-marshae-jones-manslaughter-unborn-child

The Guardian also tried to play up the racial aspects of the incident, whilst omitting the fact that the woman Jones attacked - Ebony Jemison, was also black.
Jemison is on record as expressing sympathy with Jones having lost her baby and wishes she could turn back the clock and said “I don’t feel she should be charged with manslaughter because she didn’t go upon killing her baby herself. But she should be charged with child endangerment or assault or something like that. I feel that if the baby had to be counted as a person, I don’t feel [the grand jury] is wrong for indicting her because you initially put your child in danger,”
Both articles make valid points about current/future government control of the unborn and how agencies deal with mothers who are at risk.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Both articles make valid points about current/future government control of the unborn and how agencies deal with mothers who are at risk.
That second article concluded with "feminists everywhere must see Marshae Jones' battle as their own".
Her "battle" started when her and her friends leapt from her car and started attacking Ebony Jemison.

The earlier article stated this was indicative of laws that "victimise women of colour, and African-Amercian women in particular", whilst omitting the facts that the woman Jones violently assaulted was black as, indeed, is the Alabama district attorney in this case - Lynneice Washington.

The whole tragic incident seems to have been grossly misreported in the MSM.
 

Ladyloafer

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I just retuned my telly (again, why cant they just leave channels alone), and itv1 now appears on SEVEN different channels, including its various plus-one, hd etc. seems like overkill. i can't even remember when i watched itv1.

the channels are 3, 33, 103, 804,805,806 and 807 if anyone cares.
 

EnolaGaia

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(Quoted posts originally appeared in this WTF thread)

Not sure if this really fits in here- but it often makes me say wtf;
It's to do with things said in old films/programmes that seem way ahead of their time- (so sort of Fortean-ish I suppose). ...
I find it interesting that a lot of ideas/inventions are often not as modern as we sometimes think.
I think this is worthy of its own thread? :cool: ...
I agree with Swifty ...

These posts have been moved elsewhere as the seeds for this new thread:

Not So New: Overestimating Recency Of Innovations and Issues
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...ting-recency-of-innovations-and-issues.66052/
 

Krepostnoi

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The earlier article stated this was indicative of laws that "victimise women of colour, and African-Amercian women in particular", whilst omitting the facts that the woman Jones violently assaulted was black as, indeed, is the Alabama district attorney in this case - Lynneice Washington.
What does the ascribed ethnicity of the other party have to do with anything? Isn't this in fact a reference to the fact that women of colour are more liable to be charged under such laws? I wouldn't be surprised if they are also comparatively more likely to be convicted and given longer sentences, too.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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"What does the ascribed ethnicity of the other party have to do with anything?"

It matters because many reports of this incident have been playing up suggestions of both racism and misogyny.
Those same articles fail to report that the decision to file criminal charges against Jones was made by a black, female district attorney. Similarly many articles omit the fact that Jones was attacking a black woman when the shooting occurred.
These curious omissions seem designed to amplify the hype and propaganda value surrounding the incident.
 
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"What does the ascribed ethnicity of the other party have to do with anything?"

It matters because many reports of this incident have been playing up suggestions of both racism and misogyny.
Those same articles fail to report that the decision to file criminal charges against Jones was made by a black, female district attorney. Similarly many articles omit the fact that Jones was attacking a black woman when the shooting occurred.
These curious omissions seem designed to amplify the hype and propaganda value surrounding the incident.
How could shooting someone be a proportionate response though? What was the nature of the attack?
 

Krepostnoi

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"What does the ascribed ethnicity of the other party have to do with anything?"

It matters because many reports of this incident have been playing up suggestions of both racism and misogyny.
Those same articles fail to report that the decision to file criminal charges against Jones was made by a black, female district attorney. Similarly many articles omit the fact that Jones was attacking a black woman when the shooting occurred.
These curious omissions seem designed to amplify the hype and propaganda value surrounding the incident.
I think both racism and misogyny do play a large role here. For one thing, if the motivation behind the law in question can be explained by anything other than misogyny, I'd be amazed. For another, I'm also unsure what your insistence on emphasising that the shooter was also black is intended to achieve. Ditto with regard to the DA. If you think that the latter's blackness somehow proves that no racism is involved, or that her gender proves the lack of misogyny, you'll need to show your working. Lastly, why is it so important for you that suggestions of racism and misogyny be played down?
 

blessmycottonsocks

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How could shooting someone be a proportionate response though? What was the nature of the attack?
I don't know Ramon. We aren't privy to all the evidence, unlike the district attorney. If, as has been reported, Jones and her friends (an unspecified number) leapt from their car to confront and attack Ms Jemison, it must have been quite terrifying.
Should Ebony Jemison have resigned herself to the fact that her life was forfeit because the chief attacker was pregnant?
I certainly don't agree with America's gun laws, but Jemison did hold a valid license for a hand gun. Had she defended herself with her fists instead of firing a warning shot at the pavement (which tragically ricocheted) that too could have killed the baby.
 
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Should Ebony Jemison have resigned herself to the fact that her life was forfeit because the chief attacker was pregnant?
No. We just don't know whether or not the response was appropriate. In the UK or RoI you would have to show that you had reasonable fear of being killed or seriously injured to justify shooting someone.
 

escargot

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No. We just don't know whether or not the response was appropriate. In the UK or RoI you would have to show that you had reasonable fear of being killed or seriously injured to justify shooting someone.
True, and you'd also need a legal right to own or use the gun you're shooting with. Brits and Irish people don't habitually carry guns.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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"why is it so important for you that suggestions of racism and misogyny be played down?"

Oh come on, krep! That is unfair.
I might as well ask you why you only want part of the story to be reported.

When you take the time to look at all the facts in this case, The Guardian's farcical claim that this is somehow racist or a real-life version of the "Handmaid's Tale" evaporates into nothing.
 

Naughty_Felid

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"why is it so important for you that suggestions of racism and misogyny be played down?"

Oh come on, krep! That is unfair.
I might as well ask you why you only want part of the story to be reported.

When you take the time to look at all the facts in this case, The Guardian's farcical claim that this is somehow racist or a real-life version of the "Handmaid's Tale" evaporates into nothing.
The second article never mentioned anything about racism. The issue that is being discussed is that there is a steady increase in pregnant women's behaviour being criminalized in the US.

This, particularly in situations involving addiction, is seriously worrying as it stops pregnant women from seeking treatment. Healthy babies can be born from addicted mothers if they are on substitution treatment. This should be a no brainer. You help the mother come off street drugs and you protect the unborn too. You don't want the newborn to suffer from Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome because mom got too scared that she'd be locked up and went to ground.

Sadly though a lot of people think they know better and since the Ferguson vs City Charleston case happened in 2001, (even though the ruling was correct), it set the ball rolling for women, particularly socially and economically deprived women, to have their autonomy eroded. Poor, often non-white women are becoming objects of the state with little say in their lives - sound familiar?

Black pregnant women are 4 times more likely to die in America than in any other westernized country and the number of deaths is increasing.

https://www.aclu.org/other/ferguson-v-city-charleston-social-and-legal-contexts

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicati...treating-opioid-use-disorder-during-pregnancy

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/...gh-risk-of-dying-from-pregnancy-complications
 
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