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Tigers "between the Koreas"?

amyasleigh

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
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813
This concerns "known species thought locally extinct", rather than "uncatalogued mystery species" -- but I was intrigued to find it cited recently; on another message board, of the "about everything under the sun" variety.

The species concerned is the Siberian / Korean tiger (Panthera tigris altaica), believed to have been for a fairly long time, extinct in the wild in South Korea, and likewise, all-but, in North Korea. It turns out, though, that there is (or anyway, has lately been) an enthusiastic South Korean, seemingly amateur, naturalist who is convinced that a few tigers still inhabit the Demilitarised Zone between the two mutually antagonistic Koreas -- a basically people-less, heavily fenced-off, strip of land 4km. wide, following the whole 250km. border. From the news item's text, it would seem that his opinion is essentially based on a "hunch"; but he and his faithful followers spend much time on the southern edge of the DMZ, questing and "tracking" in the hope of tiger encounters. Rather sadly, the item is dated 2010: there having seemingly been no success on the part of this group, in the half-decade since then (at least, none heard of by me), would look none too hopeful re tigers hanging on in this location.

As the item recounts, Korea's DMZ has become a rather fine unintentional (and presumably un-visitable in detail) nature reserve, home to various rare species: including by some accounts, black bears and leopards. As quite often found in locations of military activity of one kind or another, including training areas: essentially no humans there, except for the military-type ones when they're doing their stuff -- the fauna seem quite readily to "get", that the alarming human activities and noises are not targeting them, and that in the main they will be left alone.

My computer skills are not great, and I don't seem to be able to post an actual workable link to the piece: have to resort to: --

Google "Korean tigers".

About the sixth "hit" down on the first page, reads: "Tracking tigers in Korea's DMZ - CNN.com". Click on that.
 
That's a large area of land. Plenty of space for all kinds of large animals to live in undisturbed.
 
Thanks rynner2 -- that's him ! -- as the article says, Korea's "Tiger Woods with a difference".
 
That is a pretty risible piece of writing, but the subject is interesting.
I'd love for it to be true, but there's been more evidence offered up for Nessie than for this putative tiger population.
 
Found a video of the report.
If I found a tiger with her I'd throw her in its direction - that voice is grating.
 
Found a video of the report.[?QUOTE]

Thanks for this, Yith. You say previously: "more evidence offered up for Nessie than for this putative tiger population". I agree that in this whole field, there tends to be a lot of wild-eyed optimism, disproportionate to "visible means of support"; but I was interested to witness in the video, Mr. Lim the tiger buff showing photographs of footprints, and carcases (predators' kills?) and citing reports -- admittedly anecdotal -- from farmers and soldiers, claiming to have seen in the DMZ, tigers as well as bears and leopards. Whereas the non-video article rather gave the impression of Kim being akin to the crazier type of "Bigfooter" -- "So-and-so exists because I believe, or know, that it does -- to hell with evidence."

Have been trying to look more into this matter: there's a Wiki article

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone

which amongst a great deal of other stuff about the DMZ, has a section about its nature-reserve role. It's mentioned therein: "Several endangered animal and plant species now exist among the heavily fortified fences, landmines and listening posts. These include... potentially, the extremely rare Siberian tiger, Amur leopard and Asiatic black bear."

Also discovered, an article put out by an outfit called "Inventory of Conflict and Environment", on "Korean Demilitarized Zone as a Bioreserve". Unfortunately, I've found absolutely no way of linking to this article, short of starting, "sign up with message board X..." Article mentions inter alia, that above and beyond the Zone proper, there are three-to-five-kilometre-wide "buffer zones" on either side of it, which are "used to facilitate border protection" and are basically without inhabitants in the normal sense: thus, very wildlife-rich -- the South Korean buffer zone much valued by SK naturalists, as a "reserve", and for study of the fauna and flora. (For all anyone knows, I suppose they may have Northern counterparts doing the same stuff on their side.)

This article also mentions, less hearteningly, that per Western military sources, re the enormous number of land mines (both sides') in the DMZ, "after fifty-some years of land mines, any animal heavy enough to set off a land mine no longer lives in the DMZ." A question-mark thus, over tigers / bears / leopards? Lim, in the video which you provide, claims that the animals somehow know how to avoid the mines; many things are possible, I suppose...


If I found a tiger with her I'd throw her in its direction - that voice is grating.

As basically American female voices go, I'd describe this one as positively dulcet. Now Bernadette from The Big Bang Theory -- IMO, there's grating for you...
 
I noticed Mr Lim's folder of evidence, but the camera cuts away very quickly and he himself iid cut off mid-sentence. You'll note that they didn't really let him talk much except about the tiger as a symbol of unity and shared heritage, which is problematic for me; it sounds like wish fulfilment, a metaphor. Still, possible, I'll accept.

There's another article on the broader topic of the DMZ here:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/features/world/asia/north-korea/dmz-text/6

...and Mr Lim makes another appearance, this time with more evidential details:

- mutilated pigs & cows
- prints in the snow
- shredded tree trunks
- roaring like a motorbike revving

All of this is reported not within the DMZ itself but in the area to the south around Hwacheon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwacheon_County - I've been there, in fact.

That's another problem: many people have.

No doubt the forests and mountains are utterly deserted by night and in the dead of winter, but hiking is a hugely popular pastime in South Korea and many trails fill with thousands off noisy people with radios and camping equipment most the weekends. And then there's the army bases with trucks and tanks - they're not just lined up along the DMZ, they're every few miles all around that zone. I have difficulty believing a tiger would come within miles of such locations, which makes the 'evidence' above suspect to me. That doesn't affect the claim that they could live int he DMZ, but I'm doubtful that all this make that theory more plausible.

I know all of the places mentioned in these reports.
I'm currently sitting less than an hour away from most of them by car.

Edit: We need an exact location for these 'signs'!
 
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Didn't realise you were actually in Korea -- well, you know what's what, in those parts. I'm coming to feel that -- in another parallel with Bigfootery -- it's not essentially impossible that the target creature could indeed be there: just that all the evidence and circumstances, would seem to suggest that it's very improbable. Would be lovely if it could be true, and one sympathises with the zeal of such people as Mr. Lim to believe that it verily is...

Thank you for the links. I like the thought of Hwacheon County's samgyeopsal : Korean cuisine strikes me as very appetising.
 
Could it be a scare story put about by the powers that be to stop defectors from North to South? "Don't even think about it lest you be devoured by a tiger!" How old is this story, anyway?
 
Well, North Korea is one of those places where seemingly anything is possible. However -- it would appear that life for many there, is very miserable: one suspects that those pushed to the length of seriously considering an attempt at trekking over the border to the South, would regard death by tiger as an acceptable risk to take.

The report as linked to, about Lim the "tigers in the Zone" enthusiast, dates from 2010.
 
Further thoughts, prompted by Wiki on the various tiger sub-species. Whenever a spectacular and exciting creature is reported to have died out – whether in a particular area, or totally vanished from the world – it would seem that, understandably enough, some individuals will strongly opine otherwise, and attempt quests to try to prove that it still survives.


According to mainstream scientific opinion, the Caspian sub-species of the tiger Panthera tigris virgata, went extinct as at the early 1970s. However, a piece by Tim Cahill – American travel writer specialising in visiting decidedly “hairy” places (IMO he’s pretty level-headed and credible) – tells of a venture of his in the early 2000s to the mountainous far south-east of Turkey, up against the borders of Iraq and Iran, in response to rumours from the area, of tigers still being encountered there, up to as at the time of his visit. This region had long been difficult of access for outsiders – and with movement somewhat circumscribed for the locals – because of many years of armed conflict between the Turkish state, and Kurdish separatist forces: a situation which can be envisaged as having both positive and negative aspects, re potentially surviving tigers. Cahill and his companions talked with various locals who spoke of seeing tigers between four and ten years previously; and one group who claimed a tiger encounter only a few days back. No sightings for Cahill and group – and still-continuing Turkish army / Kurdish hostilities frustrated them from some envisaged possibly promising locations; but the locals’ reports gave Cahill grounds for a fair degree of optimism about the tiger’s survival. However, seemingly no more heard on the matter between then, and now 10 / 12 years later – that would appear not a good sign.


www.adiyamanli.org/travel/topic/60-anybody-seen-a-tiger-around-here-by-tim-cahill/
 
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