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Time Or Dimensional Slips

This is really mundane but it left me scratching my head:
On my drive home I pass through three roundabouts before I get to the motorway.
A couple of weeks ago I was approaching the third roundabout when my car wing mirrors automatically turned in.
The switch isn't something I could hit by accident; and after I'd passed through the third roundabout I re-opened them.
About 20 seconds later I found myself at the third roundabout again, it was a real case of deja vu, and as I drove across it the mirrors turned in once more - it made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.
The mirrors could be an electrical glitch or interference but I genuinely experienced the same roundabout twice, the mind is a strange thing!
 
Sounds like a glitch, unless you're driving Herbie (!). Let us know if it happens again, maybe on a different stretch of road - if so, it's definitely a glitch. Unless driving over a bump set them off? British roads aren't in a great state these days.
 
was reading the recent posts and it reminded of an dream that i once had, where i was walking on an dirt shortcut, near my town (wich is very small) when i stumble upon an gigantic futuristic city with miles high buildings!
 
Hmm.

Today I had a disagreement with my wife.

I went to butter a slice of toast and found the butter tub almost empty.

'Wife', said I, 'where has all the butter gone. I only opened that tub last night'

'No you didn't, you opened it last week' said she.

But I am clear in my mind that it was last night; maybe the night before. No further back.

I can without this kind of thing happening.

INT21
 
As I've been working in Reading for a few months, I sometimes browse the libraries for tales of local Forteana and other interesting historical stuff. Reading does seem to have quite an abundance of ghostly residents - notably around the abbey ruins and the Thames side path down through Caversham.
One account though, despite the scanty details, struck me more as having a vibe closer to that of time slips, like some of those reported in Liverpool.
In South Reading in quite an affluent middle-class area, lies Berkeley Avenue. Late night pedestrians have reported seeing a large, older-style car (would love it to be a Rolls Royce Phantom) driving down the avenue, with no lights on and no appreciable engine noise. The car, however, appears well illuminated, so that its bright blue colour could easily be seen, as could the driver, described as an attractive red-haired woman. After a few seconds, the car abruptly disappears. These details suggested to me that the witnesses were describing a car apparently observed in day-time conditions (well-lit but no headlights on) but at night.
Apart from what I read in the book, a couple of accounts on the Internet (Haunted Berkshire) give no further details than those I've posted above.
Would seeing something that appears to have the characteristics of existing at a different time to the present seem to be indicative of a time slip?
I may stroll down there this lunchtime and would love to glimpse an old-fashioned car although in broad daylight, appearing to be in murky midnight conditions.
 
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Would seeing something that appears to have the characteristics of existing at a different time to the present seem to be indicative of a time slip?
I may stroll down there this lunchtime and would love to glimpse an old-fashioned car although in broad daylight, appearing to be in murky midnight conditions.


Plausibly.

Am I reading this correctly: So the car has been seen at night, but it appears as if it would if observed in daylight? Brightly as reflected by sun?

We have talked before about the plausibility of ghosts (and road ghosts in particular) possibly being a timeslip experience. I personally believe that at least some cases of people encountering ghosts could plausibly be.

The common ground which I believe the two share is in repetition of actions or gestures - like a moment in the past replaying in the present. A lot of ghost stories from multiple witnesses do mention specific repetition of actions or gestures. When you take away the embellishment, the campfire reading and the emotional response you can find details which are mentioned by multiple people.

For example, the A15 road ghost in Lincolnshire (which we've discussed on the Ghosts forum - sometimes melodramatically referred to as 'The Ruskington Horror') has been witnessed in and around a specific road junction by multiple people over decades. It was briefly mentioned by a caller on a This Morning phone-in back in the late 90s, which then resulted in a dozen or so other people calling in with similar stories.

The common link between the majority of accounts seems to be that a figure steps out into the road and raises one of its hands as the driver approaches it. A detail repeated in enough accounts that I personally believe there might be at least something in it.

I've often wondered if it's plausible that as so many have seen this figure step out and enact that same gesture that rather than seeing some kind of entity who likes to do something over, and over again, that they actually could be seeing a specific event repeated. That each time this 'ghost' is encountered it's some kind of echo of something that happened centuries ago, being replayed because of circumstances unknown. Whether or not that is a true 'time slip' I don't know. But then again we don't actually know what time slips (if they are real) truly are. Or what causes them.

Roads do seem to be a relatively common element of both Ghost and Time Slip stories. If this car you're talking about has been seen multiple times, if it has a set route on specific road, I'd not call it implausible to be as a result of a timeslip. You never know.
 
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"So the car has been seen at night, but it appears as if it would if observed in daylight? Brightly as reflected by sun?"

That's my interpretation of the sighting.
I've just re-read one of the accounts on altreading.com which describes a "ghostly blue" colour to the car, but which was driving without its lights on. Seeing a car driving at night with no lights is curious in itself. But seeing it strangely illuminated to the degree that the driver's features could be described, is downright freaky.
Of course it could all be BS and I have no idea why a timeslip would manifest itself in this manner, but it did make me think of a daytime sighting somehow seen at night.
 
"So the car has been seen at night, but it appears as if it would if observed in daylight? Brightly as reflected by sun?"

That's my interpretation of the sighting.
I've just re-read one of the accounts on altreading.com which describes a "ghostly blue" colour to the car, but which was driving without its lights on. Seeing a car driving at night with no lights is curious in itself. But seeing it strangely illuminated to the degree that the driver's features could be described, is downright freaky.
Of course it could all be BS and I have no idea why a timeslip would manifest itself in this manner, but it did make me think of a daytime sighting somehow seen at night.


Well, no. But to the same degree why would *any* timeslip manifest itself? :) If they are for real we definitely don't know what causes them.

"Ghostly Blue" is another fantastic example of embellishment of course. It directs towards the assumption that what is being seen is unquestionably a ghost. Whereas there could be many explanations as to what might have cause the luminescence or lighting state applied to the vehicle in that moment.
 
Agreed, which is why I tried to avoid any embellishments like "ghostly" in my initial post.
If I can find any further details of the sightings I will post them here.
 
Agreed, which is why I tried to avoid any embellishments like "ghostly" in my initial post.
If I can find any further details of the sightings I will post them here.

Understood. And I hope you didn't think I was suggesting embellishment on your part. Certainly not my intention. :)

If you find anything more out blessmycottonsocks, please to let us know.
 
There are two other road ghost stories attached to Reading.
The first is located on The Warren, in Caversham, where the sound of a horse galloping madly by has been heard by numerous witnesses. Legend says it is the ghost of a Cavalier riding the road from during the Siege of Reading (which started 325 years ago today, appropriately enough).
The second, far more dubious (but still fun), story concerns the main Woodcote Road once it gets toward Gallowstree Common, and a stretch called The Thirteen Bends Of Death. As you might gather from the name, there have been innumerable accidents on this bit of road, and local legend says that tje apparition of a girl (or sometimes, girls), dressed in Victorian clothing, presages an accident - basically, if you spot it, you're going to crash!
 
"So the car has been seen at night, but it appears as if it would if observed in daylight? Brightly as reflected by sun?"

That's my interpretation of the sighting.
I've just re-read one of the accounts on altreading.com which describes a "ghostly blue" colour to the car, but which was driving without its lights on. Seeing a car driving at night with no lights is curious in itself. But seeing it strangely illuminated to the degree that the driver's features could be described, is downright freaky.
Of course it could all be BS and I have no idea why a timeslip would manifest itself in this manner, but it did make me think of a daytime sighting somehow seen at night.
Sounds like a time slip to me -- reminds me of the Sandra Hardwick case at Rougham, took place in late evening, but the house seemed to be brightly illuminated as though in broad daylight.
 
Very enjoyable thread, I love this sort of stuff. I'm always hoping to experience another slip but for now I have to be content with reading everyone else's.
 
Sounds like a time slip to me -- reminds me of the Sandra Hardwick case at Rougham, took place in late evening, but the house seemed to be brightly illuminated as though in broad daylight.

Found this on YouTube. Supposedly footage of the Rougham "mirage":

 
Found this on YouTube. Supposedly footage of the Rougham "mirage":

Afraid it is a fake, a few pointers being (1) that if you were filming your dog walking along, and there was a strange noise and it froze, you would tend to overshoot it, not to instantly stop. (2) the house (which doesn't look anything like any of the houses seen there) is superimposed over an empty field in a very unconvincing way. (3) A total absence of relevant details about the girl allegedly filming, or her own testimony, which I think you would expect to hear if it was genuine.
 
Afraid it is a fake, a few pointers being (1) that if you were filming your dog walking along, and there was a strange noise and it froze, you would tend to overshoot it, not to instantly stop. (2) the house (which doesn't look anything like any of the houses seen there) is superimposed over an empty field in a very unconvincing way. (3) A total absence of relevant details about the girl allegedly filming, or her own testimony, which I think you would expect to hear if it was genuine.


I think this was filmed as a joke, Carl. At least one would assume so. :)

Although, we actually haven't discussed The Rougham House all that much on this thread. It was Red Brick, wasn't it? I want to say Georgian?

If I recall rightly we were looking at a property which has appeared in more than one location within the area, but mostly on one road. Set back from a boundary wall closer to the road itself?

And if I recall rightly the earliest mention of it was the mid 1800s?
 
I think this was filmed as a joke, Carl. At least one would assume so. :)

Although, we actually haven't discussed The Rougham House all that much on this thread. It was Red Brick, wasn't it? I want to say Georgian?

If I recall rightly we were looking at a property which has appeared in more than one location within the area, but mostly on one road. Set back from a boundary wall closer to the road itself?

And if I recall rightly the earliest mention of it was the mid 1800s?
It probably seemed amusing to the people who did it, I suppose! But one would have hoped for something a little more convincing, given all the special effects available these days.

Phil Sage told me about it after hearing of it from others (he doesn't have a computer himself), and asked me to check it out. I reported back to him that it was a fake. Given the putative scenario, of a lady innocently walking her dog, had it been genuine I have no doubt that Phil would have had some info about her identity, as he has so many contacts in the Rougham community.

There are three separate houses that have been seen at Rougham: a Georgian style building seen by Wynne and Allington at Bradfield St George, a Georgian house seen on the West side of Kingshall Street, and a country house seen on the East side. The Bradfield house was set within walled and wooded grounds. The country house was the first one on the record, from the 1860s. (I reproduced the James Cobbold article describing this and his own sighting in my report.)
 
It probably seemed amusing to the people who did it, I suppose! But one would have hoped for something a little more convincing, given all the special effects available these days.

Phil Sage told me about it after hearing of it from others (he doesn't have a computer himself), and asked me to check it out. I reported back to him that it was a fake. Given the putative scenario, of a lady innocently walking her dog, had it been genuine I have no doubt that Phil would have had some info about her identity, as he has so many contacts in the Rougham community.

There are three separate houses that have been seen at Rougham: a Georgian style building seen by Wynne and Allington at Bradfield St George, a Georgian house seen on the West side of Kingshall Street, and a country house seen on the East side. The Bradfield house was set within walled and wooded grounds. The country house was the first one on the record, from the 1860s. (I reproduced the James Cobbold article describing this and his own sighting in my report.)


I'd have to say that Rougham is one of the most compelling Time Slip examples out there. Purely because of the stretch of time it covers, and the number of sightings (several of which can't really be said to tainted by knowledge of the story prior to that person's experience).

Am I right in thinking that Kingshall Street was named after a property by the name of 'King's Hall' which is thought to have existed there at some earlier point in history?
 
I'd have to say that Rougham is one of the most compelling Time Slip examples out there. Purely because of the stretch of time it covers, and the number of sightings (several of which can't really be said to tainted by knowledge of the story prior to that person's experience).

Am I right in thinking that Kingshall Street was named after a property by the name of 'King's Hall' which is thought to have existed there at some earlier point in history?
Yes, that building was referred to in the Rougham estate papers in the Bury St Edmunds records office. But it has been impossible to pin down exactly where it was. In my original letter to the Free Press I did name some of the fields near it in the hope that someone might know ancient field locations, but never got any response to that.
 
Yes, that building was referred to in the Rougham estate papers in the Bury St Edmunds records office. But it has been impossible to pin down exactly where it was. In my original letter to the Free Press I did name some of the fields near it in the hope that someone might know ancient field locations, but never got any response to that.


How many people have gone on record as having seen it, Carl?
 
Some of these are anonymous, but 20 is a good estimate. I suspect many more are entirely unreported.


Well, given the period of time we're talking about between first reported sightings and the current day it's certainly not implausible. Indeed, seeing a building which *shouldn't* be there is not something which is even going to register as abnormal to, say, somebody driving through the area who was unaware of it.

What interests me about Rougham is that while we cannot pinpoint an absolute point where something might be reproducible on command there are enough testimonies from unprompted people (i.e. weren't expecting to see anything, or weren't aware of the 'legend') within a geographical radius that it seems genuinely quite credible that something fortean is going on.

We're not talking a nailed on physical position, but a radius within which sighting have been reported?
 
Well, given the period of time we're talking about between first reported sightings and the current day it's certainly not implausible. Indeed, seeing a building which *shouldn't* be there is not something which is even going to register as abnormal to, say, somebody driving through the area who was unaware of it.

What interests me about Rougham is that while we cannot pinpoint an absolute point where something might be reproducible on command there are enough testimonies from unprompted people (i.e. weren't expecting to see anything, or weren't aware of the 'legend') within a geographical radius that it seems genuinely quite credible that something fortean is going on.

We're not talking a nailed on physical position, but a radius within which sighting have been reported?
There are two locations which seem fairly consistent. One is the country house, west of Kingshall Street, located near the modern power pylon in the field; the other on the other side, at the end of Gypsy Lane. In both cases buildings are shown at those locations on an old 1830s map. If you recall, there is also satellite imagery of a yellow discoloration in the soil where the second is located, where many bricks were found. The Bradfield location has just been reported once. However the Bradfield site is where the enigmatic Michael energy line runs, and another house has been reported once between Rougham and Bury (near the line) and a further possible time slip was reported in Bury near the Norman Tower, again on the path of the Michael line. Further afield there are other cases. And as I described in the report, there is a lot of evidence of other phenomena as well as time slips in the Rougham area.

You are correct that a lot of the known reports are from people unaware of the mystery -- maybe because locals know better than to report sightings, or don't get too excited by it, like the old man Jean Batram met.

One reason that people don't report the west side house these days is that the hedge around that field is now very high. On Google Earth it's no problem because their camera is quite high up, but nowadays drivers and pedestrians would have no chance of spotting that house unless they are right opposite it at the gap where the field is entered.
 
There are two locations which seem fairly consistent. One is the country house, west of Kingshall Street, located near the modern power pylon in the field; the other on the other side, at the end of Gypsy Lane. In both cases buildings are shown at those locations on an old 1830s map.


Which certainly lends a plausible explanation as to what these might be, if this was genuinely a timeslip. Evidence of what these 'phantom' buildings could be.

On a side note, interesting that a power pylon is now situated here. Sorry to go off at a bit of tangent here, but I can think of a couple of road ghost cases which also had electrical pylons nearby to the sites where things were experienced. I believe there are pylons running close to one of the places on Blue Bell Hill, Kent where drivers have encountered the 'ghost' of a girl, walking in front of their vehicle.

That wouldn't account for the 1800s sightings, of course. But still.


If you recall, there is also satellite imagery of a yellow discoloration in the soil where the second is located, where many bricks were found.

Certainly plausible physical evidence of a former property, then. It would be interesting to consider archaeological exploration at these sites, but I'd imagine that would be quite difficult to justify or arrange. Where's Time Team when you need them!


The Bradfield location has just been reported once. However the Bradfield site is where the enigmatic Michael energy line runs, and another house has been reported once between Rougham and Bury (near the line) and a further possible time slip was reported in Bury near the Norman Tower, again on the path of the Michael line. Further afield there are other cases. And as I described in the report, there is a lot of evidence of other phenomena as well as time slips in the Rougham area.


So what is the 'Michael' line. Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but I'm curious to know. Is this like a Ley Line or Templar trail or something? While I'm kind of inclined to think that most of these concepts are largely hokum I don't discard them entirely. Nor do I write off the possibility that something artificial disrupting the natural energy of a geographical area may be responsible for creating phenomena such as Time Slips or Ghost sightings.

When you think about the sheer amount of background 'noise' we create these days it's pretty heavy. Electricity, radio waves, phone lines (copper and fibre optic), mobile phone signals, wifi signals. These are all things which aren't supposed to exist in a natural environment but which we do now have flowing through much of the Country.

The A15 Road Ghost accounts are one of the first Fortean things I came upon which actually made believe that the seemingly fantastical could be plausibly real. In that case too the local area was plausibly being disrupted by an outside signal. The junction where the majority of sightings have been experienced are literally down the road from RAF Cranwell. The signal from RAF Cranwell was string enough that when This Morning attempted an outside broadcast on the junction in the late 90s, they had to go to the next town over. Because that signal interfered with their own broadcast.

Can we say conclusively that a signal like that might not be interacting with something in the environment nearby, and causing some kind of time echo of a man walking out in to the road, to be recalled from centuries past? I don't find that notion implausible.

Where I also see a very loose parallel with Rougham is that the figure has not *only* been seen at that one road junction. One of the accounts from the 90s was from a woman whose father had worked at RAF Cranwell at some point in the past. She recounted a story her father had told her of a group of RAF chaps returning to RAF Cranwell from a night out in one of the nearby villages. And they were cutting through a field on the way back to the base they saw this figure walk out ahead, and raise it's arm as if warning them to stop. She said the group decided to take an alternate route after seeing that, rather than carry on ahead. She also noted that her father saw the figure again, whilst driving on A15 road years later. Again he took an alternate route.

This is what makes me believe that maybe it's the signal from that RAF base interacting with the natural flow of everyday energy in local environment in an unintentional and unexpected way, causing this echo from the past to reappear. I would say that it is far from implausible that something similar may be happening in Rougham. And while it might be harder to identify what may have caused that in the 1860s, I very much do suspect that this might be what is happening.

Just my take of course. :)


You are correct that a lot of the known reports are from people unaware of the mystery -- maybe because locals know better than to report sightings, or don't get too excited by it, like the old man Jean Batram met.

One reason that people don't report the west side house these days is that the hedge around that field is now very high. On Google Earth it's no problem because their camera is quite high up, but nowadays drivers and pedestrians would have no chance of spotting that house unless they are right opposite it at the gap where the field is entered.


And unprompted sightings are always the best kind of accounts. Because you know that thy can't have been prejudiced by prior knowledge.

Interesting know that the sightlines have changed. For all we know that house has popped back into being visible more often. But people can't always see it from the road when it does.
 
On a side note, interesting that a power pylon is now situated here. Sorry to go off at a bit of tangent here, but I can think of a couple of road ghost cases which also had electrical pylons nearby to the sites where things were experienced. I believe there are pylons running close to one of the places on Blue Bell Hill, Kent where drivers have encountered the 'ghost' of a girl, walking in front of their vehicle.

That wouldn't account for the 1800s sightings, of course. But still.
Unless, of course, the routing of electricity pylons was somehow influenced by ley lines or some other phenomena. I don't suppose anyone has ever tried plotting the purported routes of ley lines against the actual routes of electrical power lines?
 
Unless, of course, the routing of electricity pylons was somehow influenced by ley lines or some other phenomena. I don't suppose anyone has ever tried plotting the purported routes of ley lines against the actual routes of electrical power lines?

It would be interesting to know... :)
 
There are two other road ghost stories attached to Reading.
The first is located on The Warren, in Caversham, where the sound of a horse galloping madly by has been heard by numerous witnesses. Legend says it is the ghost of a Cavalier riding the road from during the Siege of Reading (which started 325 years ago today, appropriately enough).
The second, far more dubious (but still fun), story concerns the main Woodcote Road once it gets toward Gallowstree Common, and a stretch called The Thirteen Bends Of Death. As you might gather from the name, there have been innumerable accidents on this bit of road, and local legend says that tje apparition of a girl (or sometimes, girls), dressed in Victorian clothing, presages an accident - basically, if you spot it, you're going to crash!

The thing about 'the sound of a horse galloping' is interesting. As the roads wouldn't have been metalled (presumably) during the Siege of Reading, but (again, presumably) would be dirt/mud, did the sounds come over as horse galloping on the current roadsurface - ie, metal horseshoes against a tarmac surface, which makes the sort of noise we associate with horses, that clippetty clop noise - or a horse galloping over a dirt road surface - which is more of a dull thumping sound and not necessarily definitive of a horse, it just sounds more like the sound of drumming?
 
Which certainly lends a plausible explanation as to what these might be, if this was genuinely a timeslip. Evidence of what these 'phantom' buildings could be.

On a side note, interesting that a power pylon is now situated here. Sorry to go off at a bit of tangent here, but I can think of a couple of road ghost cases which also had electrical pylons nearby to the sites where things were experienced. I believe there are pylons running close to one of the places on Blue Bell Hill, Kent where drivers have encountered the 'ghost' of a girl, walking in front of their vehicle.

That wouldn't account for the 1800s sightings, of course. But still.




Certainly plausible physical evidence of a former property, then. It would be interesting to consider archaeological exploration at these sites, but I'd imagine that would be quite difficult to justify or arrange. Where's Time Team when you need them!





So what is the 'Michael' line. Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but I'm curious to know. Is this like a Ley Line or Templar trail or something? While I'm kind of inclined to think that most of these concepts are largely hokum I don't discard them entirely. Nor do I write off the possibility that something artificial disrupting the natural energy of a geographical area may be responsible for creating phenomena such as Time Slips or Ghost sightings.

When you think about the sheer amount of background 'noise' we create these days it's pretty heavy. Electricity, radio waves, phone lines (copper and fibre optic), mobile phone signals, wifi signals. These are all things which aren't supposed to exist in a natural environment but which we do now have flowing through much of the Country.

The A15 Road Ghost accounts are one of the first Fortean things I came upon which actually made believe that the seemingly fantastical could be plausibly real. In that case too the local area was plausibly being disrupted by an outside signal. The junction where the majority of sightings have been experienced are literally down the road from RAF Cranwell. The signal from RAF Cranwell was string enough that when This Morning attempted an outside broadcast on the junction in the late 90s, they had to go to the next town over. Because that signal interfered with their own broadcast.

Can we say conclusively that a signal like that might not be interacting with something in the environment nearby, and causing some kind of time echo of a man walking out in to the road, to be recalled from centuries past? I don't find that notion implausible.

Where I also see a very loose parallel with Rougham is that the figure has not *only* been seen at that one road junction. One of the accounts from the 90s was from a woman whose father had worked at RAF Cranwell at some point in the past. She recounted a story her father had told her of a group of RAF chaps returning to RAF Cranwell from a night out in one of the nearby villages. And they were cutting through a field on the way back to the base they saw this figure walk out ahead, and raise it's arm as if warning them to stop. She said the group decided to take an alternate route after seeing that, rather than carry on ahead. She also noted that her father saw the figure again, whilst driving on A15 road years later. Again he took an alternate route.

This is what makes me believe that maybe it's the signal from that RAF base interacting with the natural flow of everyday energy in local environment in an unintentional and unexpected way, causing this echo from the past to reappear. I would say that it is far from implausible that something similar may be happening in Rougham. And while it might be harder to identify what may have caused that in the 1860s, I very much do suspect that this might be what is happening.

Just my take of course. :)





And unprompted sightings are always the best kind of accounts. Because you know that thy can't have been prejudiced by prior knowledge.

Interesting know that the sightlines have changed. For all we know that house has popped back into being visible more often. But people can't always see it from the road when it does.
I agree that anything such as a high tension power line might have an effect on the local energy flows. Before I go any further, I had been assuming that you had read my full report on the Rougham mystery, but I deduce from what you are saying that you haven't, so I'll add a quick link here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2bci69we0ji3avi/THE ROUGHAM MYSTERY.pdf?dl=0

this will hopefully explain the way in which I was led towards the earth energy question and other equally controversial topics, all of which are directly relevant to the mystery, and may well be relevant to other cases such as the one you mention.

Oddly enough, Chris Jensen Romer, who had done the last bit of serious research in Rougham in the 80s, does know the Time Team, and was talking about trying to get ground penetrating radar to use there (though mostly in the Grove, where there do seem to be buried ruins of some kind). The field where the east side house is seen was first ploughed mechanically after the war, and the tenant farmer (whom I spoke to on the phone) did dig up a lot of high quality red bricks there.

As you will see the Michael line is an earth energy line, not a ley line, although it is associated with the famous ley running from St Michael's Mount. If you can see past the usual New Agey accretions that have tainted the basic idea (if that's the right word), there does seem to be evidence emerging that the energy is physically real and appears to be associated with time slips and other odd phenomena. However, it is a controversial area.

I have since come across hints that earth energy may also be implicated in the Rendlesham Forest phenomena, although I have resisted the temptation to add it to my report, which many consider already to be rather over the top.
 
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