Time Or Dimensional Slips

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
22,545
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
The Edna Hedges story is related with some different details on page 13 in:

The Journal of Borderline Research
Vol. XLIV, no. 6 (November - December 1988)

This is within a piece entitled "What are Ghosts?" by Vincent Gaddis.

In the paragraph / story preceding his account of the Hedges story, Gaddis refers to the Time-Life series Mysteries of the Unknown. It's not clear Gaddis drew the Hedges story from that same source, but IMHO that would be a good place to start in attempting to trace the Hedges story farther back.

In Gaddis' version of the story:

- Mrs. Hedges took shelter before the thunderstorm struck, and she didn't need to dry her clothing.
- Nothing is mentioned about the man or the cottage interior being unusually silent.

EDIT: Oops! Forgot the URL:

https://www.scribd.com/document/213...Research-Vol-XLIV-No-6-November-December-1988
 

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
1,130
Reaction score
1,595
Points
159
Is this the thread where mention is made of someone who mistook people moving beehives for a vision of a Victorian funeral?

There was a letter in t'FT about it. The beekeepers wore long coats and veils to protect themselves from the attentions of confused bees whose houses were being trundled along on a handcart. Someone saw them and completely misinterpreted the incident as described above.

I've just now been shown a picture of an actual Victorian wheeled coffin carrier. Here it is; this is what the person thought they saw -

View attachment 15314
Wouldn’t mourners be wearing black? Bee keepers tend to wear lighter clothes and veils.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
22,545
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
Is this the thread where mention is made of someone who mistook people moving beehives for a vision of a Victorian funeral? ...
You may be thinking of this 2002 post by FelixAntonius in the 'Anyone Seen a Ghost?' thread::

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/anyone-seen-a-ghost.621/post-28225

In this case, FA was told the story (which happened in the 1950's) and then realized it must have been his beekeeper father(?) and a friend moving hives.

However ...

I have a definite but vague memory of reading elsewhere about a similar incident in which beekeepers moving one or more hives on a handcart were mistaken as ghosts or a time-slip vision. It may have been within Fortean Times rather than here on the forum.

At the very limits of memory recall, I want to say this second story was written in relation to corpse roads / lych ways / spirit roads.
 

CuriousIdent

Not yet SO old Great Old One
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
1,316
Points
184
Location
Warwickshire, England.
The Edna Hedges story is related with some different details on page 13 in:

The Journal of Borderline Research
Vol. XLIV, no. 6 (November - December 1988)

This is within a piece entitled "What are Ghosts?" by Vincent Gaddis.

In the paragraph / story preceding his account of the Hedges story, Gaddis refers to the Time-Life series Mysteries of the Unknown. It's not clear Gaddis drew the Hedges story from that same source, but IMHO that would be a good place to start in attempting to trace the Hedges story farther back.

In Gaddis' version of the story:

- Mrs. Hedges took shelter before the thunderstorm struck, and she didn't need to dry her clothing.
- Nothing is mentioned about the man or the cottage interior being unusually silent.

EDIT: Oops! Forgot the URL:

https://www.scribd.com/document/213...Research-Vol-XLIV-No-6-November-December-1988

Interesting. Sounds like a bit of Chinese Whispers trail on this one...

It makes for a wonderful short story, but tracing any reliable testimony for it would be unlikely.
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
29,142
Reaction score
31,187
Points
309
Location
HM The Tower of London
I have a definite but vague memory of reading elsewhere about a similar incident in which beekeepers moving one or more hives on a handcart were mistaken as ghosts or a time-slip vision. It may have been within Fortean Times rather than here on the forum.
Yup, it was also described in a letter in t'mag.
 

Dwain Pipe

Junior Acolyte
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
42
Reaction score
233
Points
34
As a child my elder brother would regularly take out ‘true’ supernatural books from the library, the Usborne ones and such like. One of the ‘true stories’ in these books always gave me a shiver. It involved a young boy in the 1960’s sat in his living room at home watching TV. Suddenly, in the doorway of the room appeared a man staring right back at him, wearing unusual clothes and looking, very confused. They boy let out a scream for his parents and the man vanished into thin air! Move forward 20 years, and the boy is now a man and still living in the same house. One day he walks into the living room, looks up and sees a young boy who looks familiar sat in a chair and watching an old TV. The boy shouts for his parents then vanished into thin air! The boy/man was the only witness to a time slip 20 years apart.

Though it was claimed to be a real story there was no information on the people involved and I’m sure it was the creation of someone’s imagination, but it always really intrigued me and was my first experience of time slips!
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
40,258
Reaction score
29,536
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
As a child my elder brother would regularly take out ‘true’ supernatural books from the library, the Usborne ones and such like. One of the ‘true stories’ in these books always gave me a shiver. It involved a young boy in the 1960’s sat in his living room at home watching TV. Suddenly, in the doorway of the room appeared a man staring right back at him, wearing unusual clothes and looking, very confused. They boy let out a scream for his parents and the man vanished into thin air! Move forward 20 years, and the boy is now a man and still living in the same house. One day he walks into the living room, looks up and sees a young boy who looks familiar sat in a chair and watching an old TV. The boy shouts for his parents then vanished into thin air! The boy/man was the only witness to a time slip 20 years apart.

Though it was claimed to be a real story there was no information on the people involved and I’m sure it was the creation of someone’s imagination, but it always really intrigued me and was my first experience of time slips!
I love little stories like that. Leaves so many questions hanging there in the air.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

My joints go out more than I do
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
5,589
Points
204
Location
Ute inte på landet.
As a child my elder brother would regularly take out ‘true’ supernatural books from the library, the Usborne ones and such like. One of the ‘true stories’ in these books always gave me a shiver. It involved a young boy in the 1960’s sat in his living room at home watching TV. Suddenly, in the doorway of the room appeared a man staring right back at him, wearing unusual clothes and looking, very confused. They boy let out a scream for his parents and the man vanished into thin air! Move forward 20 years, and the boy is now a man and still living in the same house. One day he walks into the living room, looks up and sees a young boy who looks familiar sat in a chair and watching an old TV. The boy shouts for his parents then vanished into thin air! The boy/man was the only witness to a time slip 20 years apart.

Though it was claimed to be a real story there was no information on the people involved and I’m sure it was the creation of someone’s imagination, but it always really intrigued me and was my first experience of time slips!
Ah, so the boy was the man... and saw himself in the future / in the past... I love stories like that.
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
3,239
Reaction score
4,376
Points
184
Ah, so the boy was the man... and saw himself in the future / in the past... I love stories like that.
A friend of ours saw himself on the other side of the street once, they both looked at each other and he swears blind it was him. He always thought one day he would be on the other side of the street for the reverse view, but sadly he died before that happened.
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

My joints go out more than I do
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
5,589
Points
204
Location
Ute inte på landet.
A friend of ours saw himself on the other side of the street once, they both looked at each other and he swears blind it was him. He always thought one day he would be on the other side of the street for the reverse view, but sadly he died before that happened.
How interesting. (And my condolences for the loss of your friend).

Do you know how old the alternate version of him looked? I mean... did the other one appear to be him as he was then, or older? As it could have been a doppelganger?
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
4,350
Reaction score
6,907
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
As a child my elder brother would regularly take out ‘true’ supernatural books from the library, the Usborne ones and such like. One of the ‘true stories’ in these books always gave me a shiver. It involved a young boy in the 1960’s sat in his living room at home watching TV. Suddenly, in the doorway of the room appeared a man staring right back at him, wearing unusual clothes and looking, very confused. They boy let out a scream for his parents and the man vanished into thin air! Move forward 20 years, and the boy is now a man and still living in the same house. One day he walks into the living room, looks up and sees a young boy who looks familiar sat in a chair and watching an old TV. The boy shouts for his parents then vanished into thin air! The boy/man was the only witness to a time slip 20 years apart.

Though it was claimed to be a real story there was no information on the people involved and I’m sure it was the creation of someone’s imagination, but it always really intrigued me and was my first experience of time slips!
The time slip meme of someone encountering their younger/older self is quite common.

Here's a good example (complete with photo!)

http://hauntedearthghostvideos.blogspot.com/2011/11/timeslip-photo-or-man-haunted-by-his.html
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

My joints go out more than I do
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
5,589
Points
204
Location
Ute inte på landet.
The time slip meme of someone encountering their younger/older self is quite common.

Here's a good example (complete with photo!)

http://hauntedearthghostvideos.blogspot.com/2011/11/timeslip-photo-or-man-haunted-by-his.html

Yup, I'm sure I've read such accounts before (can't remember where to find the links though).

Not sure about this one though... to me (but I could be wrong) the chap in the window has the impression of grey hair, not black as in the wedding photo.

Plus... if it were a time slip... why would the chap be appearing in that house when he was actually off getting married back then (unless of course he lived in that house when he got wed).

Hmm..
 

gordonrutter

There must be a set character limit to this opt...
Staff member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
3,239
Reaction score
4,376
Points
184
How interesting. (And my condolences for the loss of your friend).

Do you know how old the alternate version of him looked? I mean... did the other one appear to be him as he was then, or older? As it could have been a doppelganger?
Similar age to how he was at the time so he wasn’t expecting to wait a huge length of time for the payoff.
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
4,350
Reaction score
6,907
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Yup, I'm sure I've read such accounts before (can't remember where to find the links though).

Not sure about this one though... to me (but I could be wrong) the chap in the window has the impression of grey hair, not black as in the wedding photo.

Plus... if it were a time slip... why would the chap be appearing in that house when he was actually off getting married back then (unless of course he lived in that house when he got wed).

Hmm..
It's a very old theme in ghostly literature - and alleged time slip accounts.

The classic children's novel from the middle of the last century "Tom's Midnight Garden" springs to mind.
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
4,350
Reaction score
6,907
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
My cricket team has fixtures against Westcott and Dorking. Next Summer I'll take a slight detour on my drive home and have a stroll around Wotton.
Drove home through Wotton after playing cricket at Dorking today.
Lots of beautiful scenery, archaic looking timbered buildings and a couple of very tempting country pubs, but sadly no time slip to report.
 

Austin Popper

Emperor of Antarctica
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
730
Reaction score
1,327
Points
134
Location
Colorado, where the gold is still elusive
The Edna Hedges story is related with some different details on page 13 in:

The Journal of Borderline Research
Vol. XLIV, no. 6 (November - December 1988)

This is within a piece entitled "What are Ghosts?" by Vincent Gaddis.

In the paragraph / story preceding his account of the Hedges story, Gaddis refers to the Time-Life series Mysteries of the Unknown. It's not clear Gaddis drew the Hedges story from that same source, but IMHO that would be a good place to start in attempting to trace the Hedges story farther back.

In Gaddis' version of the story:

- Mrs. Hedges took shelter before the thunderstorm struck, and she didn't need to dry her clothing.
- Nothing is mentioned about the man or the cottage interior being unusually silent.

EDIT: Oops! Forgot the URL:

https://www.scribd.com/document/213...Research-Vol-XLIV-No-6-November-December-1988
Whenever I see a reference to some book in a Time-Life series like that, I wonder how many editions there were, and how many similar titles they produced over the years. I've seen many different ones myself, at book sales and libraries and such places. That has to make it difficult to track down the exact book referenced. Then, once you are there, they don't seem to be the best at citing sources.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
17,153
Reaction score
22,545
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
Whenever I see a reference to some book in a Time-Life series like that, I wonder how many editions there were, and how many similar titles they produced over the years. I've seen many different ones myself, at book sales and libraries and such places. That has to make it difficult to track down the exact book referenced. Then, once you are there, they don't seem to be the best at citing sources.
Agreed ... Some of the most widely known Fortean books (especially such popular series) provide wonderful "tastes" of Forteana for popular consumption, but fail to provide enough details (e.g., sources) to be of much help in drilling down into one or another story.
 

Kingsize Wombat

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
995
Reaction score
1,257
Points
154
The time slip meme of someone encountering their younger/older self is quite common.

Here's a good example (complete with photo!)

http://hauntedearthghostvideos.blogspot.com/2011/11/timeslip-photo-or-man-haunted-by-his.html
Famous German writer Johann Wolfgang von Goethe had described just one such enounter:

One day, a depressed Goethe was riding on a footpath after leaving a girl named Frederika. Suddenly, he faced a mysterious person riding toward him. The person, who Goethe said he saw with a “mind’s eye” instead of his actual eyes, was clearly Goethe himself, although he was wearing different clothes. The figure soon disappeared, and Goethe (who found its appearance strangely soothing) soon forgot all about it.

Eight years later, he found himself riding down the same footpath in the opposite direction (to see Frederika again). That’s when he realized he was wearing the exact same clothes his doppelganger wore years ago.
https://listverse.com/2013/08/30/10-disturbing-tales-of-doppelgangers/
 

CuriousIdent

Not yet SO old Great Old One
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
1,316
Points
184
Location
Warwickshire, England.
The time slip meme of someone encountering their younger/older self is quite common.

Here's a good example (complete with photo!)

http://hauntedearthghostvideos.blogspot.com/2011/11/timeslip-photo-or-man-haunted-by-his.html

I'm not sure that 'meme' would be the right term to use here. A trope, certainly. A recurring motif. Many time slip accounts from the past do seem to stray into the realms of ghost stories and unsourced speculation. And god knows it certainly makes for a good story, but how many of these actually had a grounding in personal experience is almost impossible to tell. I mean it's not like we can quiz the individual who experienced it today.


Famous German writer Johann Wolfgang von Goethe had described just one such enounter: https://listverse.com/2013/08/30/10-disturbing-tales-of-doppelgangers/

Interesting. I wonder if this was ever recorded as an account by Goethe himself, rather than stated anecdotally by a third party? Mind you it's difficult not to take a story such as this, an experience from a known writer of fiction, with a liberal pinch of salt. Hard not speculate that the author of Faust might have a slightly creative flair for the dramatic. :)
 
Last edited:

Kingsize Wombat

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
995
Reaction score
1,257
Points
154
Interesting. I wonder if this was ever recorded as an account by Goethe himself, rather than stated anecdotally by a third party? Mind you it's difficult not to take a story such as this, an experience from a known writer of fiction, with a liberal pinch of salt. Hard not speculate that the author of Faust might have a slightly creative flair for the dramatic. :)
As far as I understand, that was his own account. But - yes, he was a writer, so it may be an embellishment.
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
4,350
Reaction score
6,907
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Was in Dorking for cricket again today, which was rained off. As I didn't have to give anyone a lift, I took the opportunity to stop in Wotton on my drive home and explore a bit.
I parked in the car park of the rather nice Wotton Hatch Inn which I believe was mentioned in the original timeslip account. Promising myself a pint there later, I headed behind there and saw a track leading across fields and up the hill. At the top of the hill was another gate and it became quite dark, with trees linking their branches overhead. I was quite some distance from the road by then and all was remarkably quiet. Walked a little further across the top of the hill and wondered if this is where the alleged timeslip occurred. Grabbed a couple more pics on my phone and then headed back to the pub for a quick pint before driving home. Nothing particularly Fortean to report - no temporal disruption, but some beautiful scenery and an almost palpable sensation of tranquility when up on that wooded hilltop.


PSX_20190707_164448.jpgPSX_20190707_164448.jpgPSX_20190707_164744.jpgPSX_20190707_164842.jpgPSX_20190707_164919.jpgPSX_20190707_164945.jpg
 
Last edited:

Schrodinger's Zebra

My joints go out more than I do
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
5,589
Points
204
Location
Ute inte på landet.
Oh very nice account and photos. :)

There is something eerie (to me, anyway) about your third photo, the one with the metal gate. Something about the way the path through the grass stretches off toward the trees. Also, I don't like* the gap in those trees, on the right hand side...

...maybe it's just me, but those things immediately struck me but I don't know why.


*"don't like" is Zebs-speak for "this doesn't look right to me, it unnerves me, I don't like looking at it".
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
40,258
Reaction score
29,536
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Oh very nice account and photos. :)

There is something eerie (to me, anyway) about your third photo, the one with the metal gate. Something about the way the path through the grass stretches off toward the trees. Also, I don't like* the gap in those trees, on the right hand side...

...maybe it's just me, but those things immediately struck me but I don't know why.


*"don't like" is Zebs-speak for "this doesn't look right to me, it unnerves me, I don't like looking at it".
It's just a path.
 

blessmycottonsocks

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
4,350
Reaction score
6,907
Points
209
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Oh very nice account and photos. :)

There is something eerie (to me, anyway) about your third photo, the one with the metal gate. Something about the way the path through the grass stretches off toward the trees. Also, I don't like* the gap in those trees, on the right hand side...

...maybe it's just me, but those things immediately struck me but I don't know why.


*"don't like" is Zebs-speak for "this doesn't look right to me, it unnerves me, I don't like looking at it".
Hi Zebs and thanks for your kind comment - glad you liked my little report.
I was keeping an eye out for a bench, which was mentioned in the timeslip. Obviously, the original bench would be long-since gone, but could conceivably have been replaced by one in the same location. Near that gap in the trees you mentioned was a step-over stile, which could double as a bench.
I should also mention that Wotton (Hatch) is around 5 miles from Dorking town centre, which seems too far for people on foot to wander without realising it. The original story was very odd indeed.
 
Last edited:

Schrodinger's Zebra

My joints go out more than I do
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,760
Reaction score
5,589
Points
204
Location
Ute inte på landet.
It's just a path.
Yes, okay, just a path to you :) ... but I can't explain it, I have 'feelings' about places sometimes, I get a feeling of dislike / discomfort for no apparent reason; and all I can say is that photo gave me those same feelings. I really have no idea why.

Case in point... one time we were out for a walk somewhere with our dogs at the time. There was a line of trees and a building at one side of this park and from a certain angle I could see the sky above/behind them (if that makes sense) - and I didn't "like" it. I realised when we walked a bit further to the point where we were lower down so the trees and building obscured the sky, I felt better.

Mr Zebra knows me well enough by now that if we're out and about and I say "I don't like this" he knows exactly what I mean.

I'm weird, what can I say? :)


Hi Zebs and thanks for your kind comment - glad you liked my little report.
I was keeping an eye out for a bench, which was mentioned in the timeslip. Obviously, the original bench would be long-since gone, but could conceivably have been replaced by one in the same location. Near that gap in the trees you mentioned was a step-over stile, which could double as a bench.
I should also mention that Wotton (Hatch) is around 5 miles from Dorking town centre, which seems too far for people on foot to wander without realising it. The original story was very odd indeed.
It was a very interesting story... in fact I've just gone back to it and re-read it and caught up with some subsequent comments that I'd missed. I don't believe the couple were old enough to be in any sort of confused state; and yes, as you say I think a walk of 5 miles would be memorable to at least some extent.

Very odd story indeed; but while there are 'alternate' explanations we can probably never know the real truth. But the 'Oz Factor' aspect is, for me, telling.

Interesting that there could have been a bench/stile at that gap in the trees (although I don't know that a stile would be big enough in area for two people to sit on?)

Do you think there's more you could investigate if you ever went back? (Hopefully that's worded right - I'm not asking you to go back, just curious as to whether you think you've seen all you can, if that makes sense).
 

henry

still speeding
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Messages
3,908
Reaction score
1,159
Points
0
always good to see photos maps etc, brings the account to life, thanks for going to the effort
 

Carl Grove

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Messages
918
Reaction score
1,024
Points
139
Location
Bury St Edmunds
As a child my elder brother would regularly take out ‘true’ supernatural books from the library, the Usborne ones and such like. One of the ‘true stories’ in these books always gave me a shiver. It involved a young boy in the 1960’s sat in his living room at home watching TV. Suddenly, in the doorway of the room appeared a man staring right back at him, wearing unusual clothes and looking, very confused. They boy let out a scream for his parents and the man vanished into thin air! Move forward 20 years, and the boy is now a man and still living in the same house. One day he walks into the living room, looks up and sees a young boy who looks familiar sat in a chair and watching an old TV. The boy shouts for his parents then vanished into thin air! The boy/man was the only witness to a time slip 20 years apart.

Though it was claimed to be a real story there was no information on the people involved and I’m sure it was the creation of someone’s imagination, but it always really intrigued me and was my first experience of time slips!
Yes, there are a number of similar accounts, so it could well be a genuine case.
 

Eyespy

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
125
Reaction score
404
Points
69
Zebs, I share your unease about that gap, its definitely a bit wonk*. Not keen on the way the dark trees are reaching over the path either- I 'd probably deviate from the well trodden path here.

Great that someone was able to give us some context for this story though, nice pictures. Hope the pint was up to expectation.

*' Spy speak for a bit squirrelly.
 
Top