Time Or Dimensional Slips

BS3

Abominable Showman
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
1,191
Another fictional example of this sort of thing is a scene in Philip Hensher's novel The Mulberry Empire, set during the disastrous British intervention in Afghanistan in 1842, where the main character (1842-era Scotsman Alexander Burns) looks up and sees a modern jet plane crossing the sky.

It's never explained or given any further reference, but Burns imagines it as a portent of disaster. It's a very effective image anyway!
 

Schrodinger's Zebra

And a dandelion dies in the wind
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
2,991
It is a great pity that this book is receding from memory as there are new cases every year that have direct relevance to Jenny's case studies, research and theories. Time Storms deserves a reprint.

I'm reading this thinking how lucky I am to own a copy of Time Storms. It is indeed an excellent book.

This I just remarked to Mr Zebra, who responded with "we'd better still have it"! Well, I know it was on the bookshelf last time I looked, so I guess it's still there... I'll check later.

... but on a more curious note, a quick look on Amazon suggests this book was published in 2002 - is that really correct? Because I was going to mention that I've owned the book since before Mr Zebra and I were married. Because that's what I thought. And I've just asked Mr Zebra if I had the book before we were married and he said yes.

Except... we were married prior to 2002. Several years prior.

I can't honestly remember when I got the book or where from. Only that I've been interested in paranormal stuff for as long as I can remember, and I just have always owned that book.

Okay now I'm confused.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
29,540
Location
Out of Bounds
I'm reading this thinking how lucky I am to own a copy of Time Storms. It is indeed an excellent book.
... but on a more curious note, a quick look on Amazon suggests this book was published in 2002 - is that really correct? ...

According to WORLDCAT the earliest edition was published by Piatkus (London) in 2001.
 

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,663
Hmm…. Why the anonymity for the police? A gun was involved, pointed at a copper, a shot was fired so an official report would have been issued naming all involved. It’s as if the accuracy of the locations for the time period were more important than the actual incident. It says he disappeared but it was dark, so the police would consider it probable they simply lost sight of him in the darkness of the playing fields.

I feel there would have been a manhunt launched and it would have made the local and national media. But then I haven’t written 33 books on the ghosts of just one city….
 

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,663
I feel my suspicions may be correct:

“After decades of using whistles, shouting and tapping sticks on the ground, two-way radios revolutionised our communications in the 1930s.”

and:

“In 1954, we began to use dogs to track down suspects. While the dog section is busier than ever, today they are kept busy sniffing out drugs, explosives, firearms and even cash.”

https://www.merseyside.police.uk/police-forces/merseyside-police/areas/au/about-us/our-history2/

So in 1967, rather than blowing whistles our Liverpool coppers would have called up support on their radios that would have included dog teams to find the armed suspect in the dark playing field. You don’t pull a live firearm on the police and they just shrug it off.
 

BS3

Abominable Showman
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
1,191
The fact the 'highwayman' (well, footpad, really, given as he was on foot) was wearing an eye mask and cloak feels to me like he's conforming suspiciously to the later theatrical image of highwaymen rather than wearing what an actual 18th century criminal might have been wearing.
 

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,663
The fact the 'highwayman' (well, footpad, really, given as he was on foot) was wearing an eye mask and cloak feels to me like he's conforming suspiciously to the later theatrical image of highwaymen rather than wearing what an actual 18th century criminal might have been wearing.
Agree, quite possibly it was a prankster/someone with mental health issues.

I don’t feel his disappearance in a presumably unlit playing field is remarkable. To reiterate, he had threatened a police officer with a gun and also discharged the weapon and Liverpool’s finest would have launched a massive manhunt that would have included dog teams and it would have made the news. Indeed, the tabloids would have loved the Lone Ranger aspect of tge case and there would at the very least be press cuttings to support this story.
 

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
2,115
Agree, quite possibly it was a prankster/someone with mental health issues.

I don’t feel his disappearance in a presumably unlit playing field is remarkable. To reiterate, he had threatened a police officer with a gun and also discharged the weapon and Liverpool’s finest would have launched a massive manhunt that would have included dog teams and it would have made the news. Indeed, the tabloids would have loved the Lone Ranger aspect of tge case and there would at the very least be press cuttings to support this story.
Wouldn’t the ‘highwayman’ find the cops a strange sight? Also a gun that age once it’s been discharged it’s a real faff to reload.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
29,540
Location
Out of Bounds
Good story, but it's another Slemen article, so not sure if it's based on a genuine account or merely a piece of short fiction.

This story's documentation seems to have originated with a Slemen article in the Liverpool Echo of 6 October 2012. Check the link MorningAngel posted or the newspaper's own site:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/nostalgia/tom-slemen-tales-past--3331601

Slemen prefaced the story with the following text that wasn't included in the quoted Reddit version:
A MAJORITY of the strangest tales sent to me are from night people – citizens who work the ungodly hours while the rest of us are tucked up fast asleep in our beds. Security guards, milkmen, bakery workers on graveyard shifts, postmen of the pre-dawn winter hours, and, dare I say it – even women of the night have occasionally dropped me a line to tell of some paranormal encounter.

Crime and the law never sleep, and both patrolling policemen and pilferers on the prowl have seen some spooky things as they go about their respective businesses in the small hours of the morning. ...

... And Slemen closes with the following (also omitted from the posted Reddit version):
In my own experience, the month of October seems to see a proliferation of ghosts, and some occultists believe this is because the partition between this world and the next is at its thinnest at this time of the year – as we head towards Halloween…

It seems to me Slemen was indicating this was a tale someone else had submitted to him, and he was simply passing it along as a pre-Hallowe'en bit of spookiness.
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,653
Location
York
In my own experience, the month of October seems to see a proliferation of ghosts, and some occultists believe this is because the partition between this world and the next is at its thinnest at this time of the year – as we head towards Halloween…

This puzzles me. I was thinking about it yesterday, with it being Halloween and all.

Who decided that the 'partition between this world and the next is at its thinnest at this time of year'? I mean, with the entire calendar being a human construct, dates also being human constructs, and with the entire calendar having changed completely in 1752. Who, exactly, said, 'well, this looks like it might be a bit spooky, must be today that the ghosts find it easiest to break through'? first? All Hallows Eve - just a human decision to call November 01st All Hallows Day, (and our Halloween would have been October 18th in the old calendar anyway).

Wouldn't it more more appropriate to say either the night of the shortest day (therefore the longest night), those both being verifiable actual dates? How are ghosts meant to know what date it is? And October is hardly the spookiest month, there's more daylight then than, say December or January....
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,346
This puzzles me. I was thinking about it yesterday, with it being Halloween and all.

Who decided that the 'partition between this world and the next is at its thinnest at this time of year'? I mean, with the entire calendar being a human construct, dates also being human constructs, and with the entire calendar having changed completely in 1752. Who, exactly, said, 'well, this looks like it might be a bit spooky, must be today that the ghosts find it easiest to break through'? first? All Hallows Eve - just a human decision to call November 01st All Hallows Day, (and our Halloween would have been October 18th in the old calendar anyway).

Wouldn't it more more appropriate to say either the night of the shortest day (therefore the longest night), those both being verifiable actual dates? How are ghosts meant to know what date it is? And October is hardly the spookiest month, there's more daylight then than, say December or January....
Yes. It's like how we're told that Jesus was born on Christmas day. I mean what are the chances of that?
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
29,540
Location
Out of Bounds
This puzzles me. I was thinking about it yesterday, with it being Halloween and all.
Who decided that the 'partition between this world and the next is at its thinnest at this time of year'? ...

Interesting question ... I don't know whether there's literally a thinning of such a boundary per se, but I can think of reasons why the impression of such a nearness of losses, deaths, and the past is associated with October.

October (at least in most places where I've lived; and specifically in the northern hemisphere) is the month in which there's no question the summer season is past and autumn is in effect. The days get shorter, and darkness comes to prevail. There's a lot of death among the plants in the environment. The summer crops have been cut down and removed. The trees turn resplendent with colors and lose their leaves. Many of the birds disappear - migrating elsewhere for the winter. The air turns cold, and it's more of a trial to go outdoors. There's less outdoor activity, and we stay inside. We have more time for our thoughts and memories. The only way to explain it is that grim winter is approaching, and the only way to avoid freaking out about that is to remember this is all part of a cycle that repeats each year. With more idle time and more motivation to remember October fosters attention to the past - including past losses and deaths.

The world seems to be dying, and the past is closer at hand in October.
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,653
Location
York
Interesting question ... I don't know whether there's literally a thinning of such a boundary per se, but I can think of reasons why the impression of such a nearness of losses, deaths, and the past is associated with October.

October (at least in most places where I've lived; and specifically in the northern hemisphere) is the month in which there's no question the summer season is past and autumn is in effect. The days get shorter, and darkness comes to prevail. There's a lot of death among the plants in the environment. The summer crops have been cut down and removed. The trees turn resplendent with colors and lose their leaves. Many of the birds disappear - migrating elsewhere for the winter. The air turns cold, and it's more of a trial to go outdoors. There's less outdoor activity, and we stay inside. We have more time for our thoughts and memories. The only way to explain it is that grim winter is approaching, and the only way to avoid freaking out about that is to remember this is all part of a cycle that repeats each year. With more idle time and more motivation to remember October fosters attention to the past - including past losses and deaths.

The world seems to be dying, and the past is closer at hand in October.
This seems logical. But it also applies to November, and also is only really applicable since the moving of the calendar in 1752. I'm really just curious about WHY Halloween is supposed to be the 'spookiest day', sufficient that appearances are being pinned to that day, when the ghosts can't know it's Halloween...
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
29,540
Location
Out of Bounds
This seems logical. But it also applies to November, and also is only really applicable since the moving of the calendar in 1752. I'm really just curious about WHY Halloween is supposed to be the 'spookiest day', sufficient that appearances are being pinned to that day, when the ghosts can't know it's Halloween...

Blame it on the Catholic church. A multi-day feast observance (All Hallows' Eve / All Saints Day / All Hallows Day) had been part of the liturgical calendar from an early time. For centuries this feast observance was celebrated at different times of the year by different churches and traditions. It wasn't until the 9th century that the Pope formally designated 1 November as All Saints' Day and pinned AllHallowTide to the end of October / beginning of November once and for all.

By this time it was already being commonly celebrated around 1 November among certain Gaelic and Germanic populations. Whether or not these particular (Gaelic / Germanic) habits were the basis for designating 1 November remains a subject of debate. Whether or not the designation was influenced by pre-Christian / pagan celebration dates (e.g., Samhain) is also still a subject of debate.
 

blessmycottonsocks

Antediluvian
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
7,671
Location
Wessex and Mercia
This puzzles me. I was thinking about it yesterday, with it being Halloween and all.

Who decided that the 'partition between this world and the next is at its thinnest at this time of year'? I mean, with the entire calendar being a human construct, dates also being human constructs, and with the entire calendar having changed completely in 1752. Who, exactly, said, 'well, this looks like it might be a bit spooky, must be today that the ghosts find it easiest to break through'? first? All Hallows Eve - just a human decision to call November 01st All Hallows Day, (and our Halloween would have been October 18th in the old calendar anyway).

Wouldn't it more more appropriate to say either the night of the shortest day (therefore the longest night), those both being verifiable actual dates? How are ghosts meant to know what date it is? And October is hardly the spookiest month, there's more daylight then than, say December or January....

Walpurgis night (30th April) is another supposedly liminal time, where the boundaries between the physical and spiritual worlds are at their thinnest.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,346
This seems logical. But it also applies to November, and also is only really applicable since the moving of the calendar in 1752. I'm really just curious about WHY Halloween is supposed to be the 'spookiest day', sufficient that appearances are being pinned to that day, when the ghosts can't know it's Halloween...
Adding on to what Enola said- this is the first October in a good few years where there hasn't been a noticeable dip in temperature in the first weeks. Also, I suppose any time after the Autumn equinox (when the nights become longer than the days) could be considered a candidate.
Is the reason that the Winter solstice isn't thought of as 'spooky' because that day was/is a celebration?
 

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,663
This story's documentation seems to have originated with a Slemen article in the Liverpool Echo of 6 October 2012. Check the link MorningAngel posted or the newspaper's own site:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/nostalgia/tom-slemen-tales-past--3331601

Slemen prefaced the story with the following text that wasn't included in the quoted Reddit version:


... And Slemen closes with the following (also omitted from the posted Reddit version):


It seems to me Slemen was indicating this was a tale someone else had submitted to him, and he was simply passing it along as a pre-Hallowe'en bit of spookiness.
Quite possible but there would still have been a police log entry made and a local reporter would have almost certainly picked up on this story from one of their contacts at 'the nick' so money is still on it being a fabrication or an exaggeration of a lesser event
 
Last edited:

Paul_Exeter

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
1,663
The excellent UK paranormal Database has two new possible time=slip cases:

"Location: Chelmsford (Essex) - Regiment Way roundabout in Beaulieu
Type: Haunting Manifestation
Date / Time: 2018, 00:00h
Further Comments: While driving along this road, two people slowed down to ascertain their location. As they approached the roundabout, both spotted a man wearing Victorian clothing, including a small top hat, walking along the side of the road. After a few seconds, the man vanished, leaving behind mist."

And one that sounds familiar:

"Location: Lambourn Woodlands (Berkshire) - M4, between Junction 15 & 16
Type: Haunting Manifestation
Date / Time: Circa 1990, 00:30h
Further Comments: A witness passing along this road noticed a group of people walking towards the motorway. Even though the ground was uneven, they moved as if on a smooth path. The lead figure, a woman wearing a maroon Victorian dress with matching bonnet, held aloft a ridiculously small umbrella. A man close behind appeared to be listening to the woman, and wore a top hat."

Source: https://www.paranormaldatabase.com/recent/index.php
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,653
Location
York
The excellent UK paranormal Database has two new possible time=slip cases:

"Location: Chelmsford (Essex) - Regiment Way roundabout in Beaulieu
Type: Haunting Manifestation
Date / Time: 2018, 00:00h
Further Comments: While driving along this road, two people slowed down to ascertain their location. As they approached the roundabout, both spotted a man wearing Victorian clothing, including a small top hat, walking along the side of the road. After a few seconds, the man vanished, leaving behind mist."

And one that sounds familiar:

"Location: Lambourn Woodlands (Berkshire) - M4, between Junction 15 & 16
Type: Haunting Manifestation
Date / Time: Circa 1990, 00:30h
Further Comments: A witness passing along this road noticed a group of people walking towards the motorway. Even though the ground was uneven, they moved as if on a smooth path. The lead figure, a woman wearing a maroon Victorian dress with matching bonnet, held aloft a ridiculously small umbrella. A man close behind appeared to be listening to the woman, and wore a top hat."

Source: https://www.paranormaldatabase.com/recent/index.php
In cases like this it would be interesting to consult a clothing historian. With enough detail, they could, perhaps, narrow down the dating to a specific decade - sometimes even more precisely than that - and that would make it easier to check whether anything significant had happened in the area at that time.

Or it might at least rule out 'fancy dress party'. For example, were top hats regularly worn when women carried parasols? Do they occur in the same time frame?
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,653
Location
York
A few moments with Mr Google, gives me: 'A very long shaft, combined with a very small diameter and whalebone spokes points to the early 19th century. An overall small parasol with whalebone spokes would be mid-19th century or slightly earlier.' which could, presumably, be the 'ridiculously small umbrella' and coincides with the top hat reaching 'peak wear'. So we'd be looking at a group from somewhere around 1850. A proper clothing historian could, no doubt, precisely date from the style of the woman's dress.
 
Top