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Time Or Dimensional Slips

I do tend to look out for unusual articles/reports whilst I’m scouring old newspapers online for family tree research, I’ve come across the odd ghost ones but nothing else... so far…
 
I do tend to look out for unusual articles/reports whilst I’m scouring old newspapers online for family tree research, I’ve come across the odd ghost ones but nothing else... so far…
I hope you've posted them on the board.
 
I do tend to look out for unusual articles/reports whilst I’m scouring old newspapers online for family tree research, I’ve come across the odd ghost ones but nothing else... so far…
Yes, things have changed since you could go to the British Museum Newspaper Library and look at any old newspapers for nothing! All online and all very expensive now, it seems.
 
Yes, things have changed since you could go to the British Museum Newspaper Library and look at any old newspapers for nothing! All online and all very expensive now, it seems.
But if it's part of your job, it is tax deductible...
 
Basically they offer you a free look at a newspaper then when you try to view another one they ask for money! Very frustrating!
 
It was ages ago, long before I joined here. I shall post any I come across in future though or if I can find the ones I saw again :)
Mooka; I don't know if you've come across this one from your neck of the woods.

The thread gets very de-railed (by me as usual) but these two posts will give you the story;


https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...ip-case-chesterfield-1969.68103/#post-1845552
https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...ip-case-chesterfield-1969.68103/#post-1845605
 
Ooh no I haven’t, I shall have a read later when I’ve got more time
A good find, I find I am more intrigued by these brief time-slips than those which as claimed to happen over extended periods of time.
 
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The Tunbridge Wells 1968 case is intriguing. I know the area and in fact had not long been born just 16 miles away when this case occurred. We have an actual named witness, an exact location and timeframe that all make researching the case more straightforward.

Here are some images of the Kosmos Cinema and also the frontage of the building post-closure:

http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/44529/photos

However, the Kosmos Kinema is seemingly a red herring of sorts in the narrative as it was actually the bar in the adjacent assembly rooms that she was told matched the description she gave and not the coffee shop attached to the Kosmos:

"They were directed to the Tunbridge Wells Constitutional Club where the steward told them that at one time the Constitutional Club had owned the premises adjoining the Kosmos which was now incorporated into the supermarket. The club had had an assembly room in those days and to the rear a small bar with tables for refreshments"

https://countrysidebooks.co.uk/blogs/news/the-terrifying-time-slips-of-kent

It is an important distinction to make and it is easy to confuse the two from the information provided. The assembly rooms and bar were used by the Tunbridge Wells Constitutional Club who were based opposite at 32 Calverley Road until 1960:

https://www.twconclub.com/our-history

It seems these assembly rooms became a Pricerite supermarket after they and the Kinema were sold off after 1960 and would have been so in 1968:


But the actual distinctive frontage of the Kosmos Kinema is above a small seemingly detached shop that we have have seen has variously been a women's outfitters called "Kew', a "First Sport" shop and now a shoe shop:

http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/44529/photos

Whereas the assembly rooms became the Pricerite supermarket and now a Waterstone's bookshop - I wonder if there is a copy of our source material "Supernatural England" on its shelves...?!

So one question to answer is was the shop beneath the Kosmos Kinema frontage ever part of the Pricerite or did it remain a shop in its own right as it clearly has done for some decades now? Because the narrative is that Mrs Warburton walked into Pricerite (now Waterstones) looking for coffee and once inside saw the through a doorway cafe on the left. So, does this equate with the location of the assembly room bar, which we are told by the steward was at the 'rear' of the rooms, or is she in fact looking through to the old Kosmos Kinema building (now a shoe shop) and possibly the coffee shop we are told was attached to the Kinema?

This is key to this case as Mrs Warburton is told her description perfectly matched the assembly rooms bar in the the rear of what is now the Waterstones building and not the coffee shop associated with the Kosmos Kinema next door.
 
Edit:

The name 'Peter Lord' rang a bell and it was a chain of shoe shops owned by Clark's until the '90s:

https://alfredgilletttrust.org/history-of-clarks/

So the old foyer of the Kinema became a shoe shop (as it is again today) and wasn't a part of the supermarket. So where was the Kinema coffee shop? Or were the Kinema coffee shop and the assembly rooms bar one and the same thing...?

Here is a photo of cinema goers leaving the Kosmos following its final show in 1960. On the right you can just see the edge of the building that is now Waterstones:

https://www.topfoto.co.uk/asset/3371999/

The Kosmos in earlier times set against its present location:

 
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Finally found an image of the Pricerite supermarket* with its distinctive bay window above, a remnant of its former identity as the Kosmos Kinema entrance (foyer?). This was taken in the '1960s and therefore is both the former Kinema entrance and the supermarket Mrs Warburton walked into and looked to her left to see the cafe through a doorway:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/65/71/86657133cda5a41eba54098d76fca0cf.jpg

Source:

However, according to this source:

https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/rtwbelgians/page/2/

...the Constitution Club had their premises above and to the right of this building (where Waterstones is) and not to the left. This is a Maynards sweetshop in the image above (1960s). So perhaps this was indeed the former Kosmos Kinema coffee shop and not the Constitution Club rooms bar as the Club steward claimed...?

One thing is for sure, seemingly straightforward Fortean cases are never straightforward when you delve into them...


* if you zoom in enough you can see 'supermarket' and just make out 'Pricerite'. Not a supermarket by modern standards but I can remember how small my local Tesco was in the '70s.
 
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Finally found an image of the Pricerite supermarket* with its distinctive bay window above, a remnant of its former identity as the Kosmos Kinema entrance (foyer?). This was taken in the '1960s and therefore is both the former Kinema entrance and the supermarket Mrs Warburton walked into and looked to her left to see the cafe through a doorway:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/65/71/86657133cda5a41eba54098d76fca0cf.jpg

Source:

However, according to this source:

https://blogs.kent.ac.uk/rtwbelgians/page/2/

...the Constitution Club had their premises above and to the right of this building (where Waterstones is) and not to the left. This is a Maynards sweetshop in the image above (1960s). So perhaps this was indeed the former Kosmos Kinema coffee shop and not the Constitution Club rooms bar as the Club steward claimed...?

One thing is for sure, seemingly straightforward Fortean cases are never straightforward when you delve into them...


* if you zoom in enough you can see 'supermarket' and just make out 'Pricerite'. Not a supermarket by modern standards but I can remember how small my local Tesco was in the '70s.
Great work :)
 
Great work :)
Thanks, it killed a wet afternoon :)

The Maynards sweet shop was there in 1960 when the Kinema closed:

https://www.topfoto.co.uk/asset/3371999/

You see the Maynards sign in the middle-upper left of image. Apparently Maynards strategically located their sweet shops next to cinemas:

https://www.1900s.org.uk/1940s50s-sweet-shops.htm

So we can be confident that there was a Maynards and not a cafe on the immediate left of the entrance to both Kosmos Kinema and later Pricerite. Note also the entrance to Pricerite is on the left hand side, closest to Maynards. We do not know, however, what was in the space behind Maynards, either in 1968 or earlier - perhaps a cinema cafe with no windows...?
 
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Think I have found a major clue.

I've been puzzled by the footprint of 40-42 Calverley Road where the entrance to the Kosmos was and which became a Pricerite. There just doesn't seem to be enough space for a cinema as large as the Kosmos was. Then you have the source that states the Kosmos was on the ground floor of the Constitutional Club buildings that are now Waterstones - certainly sufficient space for a cinema.

Pricerite bought the redundant cinema and apparently "gutted" the interior. Pricerite were then later bought out by International:

http://yertiz.co.uk/remembers-pricerite-supermarkets/

This must be the case as we have a later photo of the 40-42 as an International supermarket and still with the distinctive bay window above:

https://countrysidebooks.co.uk/blogs/news/the-terrifying-time-slips-of-kent

I found this image on Pinterest:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/7b/28/137b289fe853e6f17397cb6122cab1b7.jpg

(Source: )

Here is the Jonathan Creek-esque crucial evidence: it shows TWO International storefronts just two shop front apart In what is now Waterstones. You can see a shop named 'Gees' and another small shop between them (you might need to zoom in as I did).

So is it fair to say that in 1968 Pricerite - who developed the site - also had two shop front that both led back to the original cinema space behind the two small shops? That is they formed one large store in what is now the rear of Waterstones but with two front entrances either side of two smaller stores? In a sense, a bit like a London tube station whereby you often enter the same booking hall from two different street entrances.

So did Mrs Warburton become confused by this arrangement? On her first visit did she enter the Pricerite entrance that is now in Waterstones and not the former cinema entrance two shops down? Because suddenly this put Mrs Warburton back in the old Constitutional Club buildings in which the refreshment bar once existed and not turning left towards the Maynards sweet shop.

Then on her return visit, she became confused by the former cinema entrance and this is in actual fact the red herring. I haven't been able to establish what occupied the two shop spaces (front of Waterstones) whilst the Kosmos Kinema was open, however there was a wine merchant called J.S. Tidby & Son there during the Pricerite 1960's era. Was one of them the former cinema cafe?

Tl;dr: there were in fact two entrances to the supermarket that replaced the Kosmos and these were set two shop fronts apart. Waterstones now occupies the former cinema/supermarket (32-40 Calverley Road) site with the exception of the old Kosmos entrance (40-42).
 
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Brilliant detective work Paul!


I have a time slip case to share, it occurred a couple of years ago at Tibshelf Ponds, which is at the southern end of the Five Pits Trail, Tibshelf, Alfreton, Derbyshire. The lady who experienced it has kindly given me her permission to post it here but prefers to be unnamed. In her own words:

“Taking my dog a walk round our local pond, which I have done many times, I noticed it looked different and stood looking round for a few minutes trying to work it out. The hedges, the trees, the usual landmarks were so different. There was fencing I'd never seen before. A couple of benches were gone and a short cut through to a neighbouring field not there... I thought for a minute I was walking round another pond, but on returning to the path I could see it was the same one. I even mentioned it to some fishermen who obviously thought I was bonkers. I still go regularly, but its never happened again.”

She went on to say she noticed things were quiet and still but didn’t feel any different regards emotions. Oh and it occurred at the biggest pond (I believe there are two mature ponds).
 
Brilliant detective work Paul!


I have a time slip case to share, it occurred a couple of years ago at Tibshelf Ponds, which is at the southern end of the Five Pits Trail, Tibshelf, Alfreton, Derbyshire. The lady who experienced it has kindly given me her permission to post it here but prefers to be unnamed. In her own words:

“Taking my dog a walk round our local pond, which I have done many times, I noticed it looked different and stood looking round for a few minutes trying to work it out. The hedges, the trees, the usual landmarks were so different. There was fencing I'd never seen before. A couple of benches were gone and a short cut through to a neighbouring field not there... I thought for a minute I was walking round another pond, but on returning to the path I could see it was the same one. I even mentioned it to some fishermen who obviously thought I was bonkers. I still go regularly, but its never happened again.”

She went on to say she noticed things were quiet and still but didn’t feel any different regards emotions. Oh and it occurred at the biggest pond (I believe there are two mature ponds).
Intriguing, thanks.

A lot of photos here (and far too much about fishing) but it fits that there would be people fishing there:

https://www.just-fish.co.uk/tibshelf-ponds-tibshelf-newton-angling-club/#.Y6r-Yy2l3ow
 
Brilliant detective work Paul!


I have a time slip case to share, it occurred a couple of years ago at Tibshelf Ponds, which is at the southern end of the Five Pits Trail, Tibshelf, Alfreton, Derbyshire. The lady who experienced it has kindly given me her permission to post it here but prefers to be unnamed. In her own words:

“Taking my dog a walk round our local pond, which I have done many times, I noticed it looked different and stood looking round for a few minutes trying to work it out. The hedges, the trees, the usual landmarks were so different. There was fencing I'd never seen before. A couple of benches were gone and a short cut through to a neighbouring field not there... I thought for a minute I was walking round another pond, but on returning to the path I could see it was the same one. I even mentioned it to some fishermen who obviously thought I was bonkers. I still go regularly, but its never happened again.”

She went on to say she noticed things were quiet and still but didn’t feel any different regards emotions. Oh and it occurred at the biggest pond (I believe there are two mature ponds).
Did she say that the whole area looked different, especially the trees? -- if the latter is true then it sounds more like a dimensional slip, but if the trees were in the same places but looked smaller, then, a time slip.
 
Intriguing, thanks.

A lot of photos here (and far too much about fishing) but it fits that there would be people fishing there:

https://www.just-fish.co.uk/tibshelf-ponds-tibshelf-newton-angling-club/#.Y6r-Yy2l3ow
Yes I spotted the fishing links when I was looking for a bit more information and a map.
Did she say that the whole area looked different, especially the trees? -- if the latter is true then it sounds more like a dimensional slip, but if the trees were in the same places but looked smaller, then, a time slip.
She didn’t say but I’ll message her and ask.
 
Did she say that the whole area looked different, especially the trees? -- if the latter is true then it sounds more like a dimensional slip, but if the trees were in the same places but looked smaller, then, a time slip.
I‘ve received the following reply from her:

“Its hard to remember if trees were in same place, but the hedges weren't there that are now. Of course the pond was there but looked different.Im sure the fishing platforms of now weren't there either.I noticed a nearby fence there that isn't there now. There is a gap into a field off the path, which I use often,with a bench on it which wasn't there that day.“
 
I‘ve received the following reply from her:

“Its hard to remember if trees were in same place, but the hedges weren't there that are now. Of course the pond was there but looked different.Im sure the fishing platforms of now weren't there either.I noticed a nearby fence there that isn't there now. There is a gap into a field off the path, which I use often,with a bench on it which wasn't there that day.“
A quick look over the history shows that the ponds themselves were formed in 1973/4 by the filling of old coal and oil extraction pits,
 
I thought this sounded very similar to a previous story. With the police man and needing to get back to their time. Also it seems to be take a stab at an era that I don’t find convincing. Then I read at bottom it was from haunted Liverpool 33 and I wasn’t at all surprised. Looking again our old ‘friends’ name is there at the top. I do like a time slip but I don’t like his constant fiction muddying the waters.

https://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/19008340.haunted-wirral-new-brighton-timeslip/
 
It’s probably been asked before, apologies if it has, but has anybody ever found evidence of timeslips being reported on in old newspapers? I mean surely if - like with the Slemen Christmas timeslip example posted above - there were several witnesses to a strange new cab not powered by animals (the Mini) containing strangely dressed people trundling down the street, newspapers of the day would get hold of the story? Especially if two of those witnesses were policemen. Of course it wouldn’t be called a timeslip so we‘d just have the description of what I image they’d call either a bizarre episode or temporary madness of the witness/es. Just a thought!

Mooka, I found this possible old newspaper report about somebody in the distant past experiencing a timeslip, buried within a current Mumsnet thread:

Clovacloud · 16/11/2022 11:04


I’m a huge family history nerd, and I love reading old newspapers to see what my ancestors have been up to. And I think I came across a time slip story in a 1898 local newspaper.

There was a story about a local man, who had walked out into the lane in front of his house. Apparently he saw hundreds of people in the lane, and terrified he ran to the neighbours screaming about seeing all these people. They went out, just saw an empty lane, but he insisted they had been there. The neighbours by this point thought he had gone mad (which in fairness he might have done), and called the police. He told his story to the police who took him away to calm him down. And then there isn’t any follow up story. Now 100 years later that lane is now a main road, and one of the most walked routes into town with an Aldi and a massive Sainsbury’s on it. I wonder if he had a brief time slip?

Source: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_b...ainable-and-spooky-has-happened-to-you?page=9

Sorry it's not more specific about which newspaper or whereabouts it happened, just that it's from 1898.
 
I was telling MrsF about the Gary Numan case - https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...london-underground.20197/page-11#post-2101813 -

and she said that one day after leaving work at 5pm, she and the boss were stood chatting at the top of the street just up from the office, when they watched an old chap who they had never seen before, bent over and dressed in black, (long overcoat) walking up the street from the other end, go to the front door (that they'd just locked) and go into the building. They went down to investigate (as the boss actually owns the building), went inside and searched every room but found no one in there.

I asked MrsF if anything changed- cars/buildings/trees etc, but she said nothing did, or nothing that she noticed anyway.
There have been quite a few spooky incidences in the building over the years though.
 
I was telling MrsF about the Gary Numan case - https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...london-underground.20197/page-11#post-2101813 -

and she said that one day after leaving work at 5pm, she and the boss were stood chatting at the top of the street just up from the office, when they watched an old chap who they had never seen before, bent over and dressed in black, (long overcoat) walking up the street from the other end, go to the front door (that they'd just locked) and go into the building. They went down to investigate (as the boss actually owns the building), went inside and searched every room but found no one in there.

I asked MrsF if anything changed- cars/buildings/trees etc, but she said nothing did, or nothing that she noticed anyway.
There have been quite a few spooky incidences in the building over the years though.
Great case, where did this happen please?
 
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