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Top Of The Pots (Recovery Of Sounds Recorded In Ceramic Artifacts)

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Anonymous

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hi chaps, can anyone remeber a news story a few years back about an old clay pot which when connected to a machine and speakers replayed a recording of the potter sat at his wheel creating it? if i remeber correctly the sound of the wheel going round had some how been carved into the grooves on the pot similar to the way music is stored on a viynal record

sounds mad, but i remeber it vividly on the 6 o clock news! was it a april fools joke or somthing?

cheers:confused:
 
I remember that as well. I don't know what year it was, but yes, it was broadcast on April 1st!
 
jg@chesterfield said:
hi chaps, can anyone remeber a news story a few years back about an old clay pot which when connected to a machine and speakers replayed a recording of the potter sat at his wheel creating it? if i remeber correctly the sound of the wheel going round had some how been carved into the grooves on the pot similar to the way music is stored on a viynal record

Some ten or so years ago, there was a story in either Analog or Isaac Asimov's SF Magazine dealing with that exact subject. An archeologist was examining Celtic pots, and made the discovery that the decorative groove incised into the clay with a wire had recorded the noise of the wheel. In the story, it proved possible to isolate the potter's voice from the 'recording' as well.
 
There have been real attempts to extract noise from, not only pottery, but also paintings in the past. I believe someone even claimed to have isolated a word , or two from an `Old Master' a few years back.

With modern technology, lasers and computing power, I believe it is only a matter of time before we hear a few words from Rembrandt or Da Vinci.

Scientists (as well as ghost hunters) speculate that all events and actions leave recorded peturbations in the structure of matter and that one day they may be able to decode and replay them. Perhaps we will, eventually, find out who built Stonehenge, or what life in Pompeii was really like.
 
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jg@chesterfield said:
hi chaps, can anyone remeber a news story a few years back about an old clay pot which when connected to a machine and speakers replayed a recording of the potter sat at his wheel creating it? if i remeber correctly the sound of the wheel going round had some how been carved into the grooves on the pot similar to the way music is stored on a viynal record

sounds mad, but i remeber it vividly on the 6 o clock news! was it a april fools joke or somthing?

cheers:confused:
When I first read this post the idea sounded vaguely familiar but not from a news bulletin. Windwhistlers mention of Analog magazine and Isaac Asimov didn't ring a bell either. Then last night I suddenly remembered where I'd heard something similar. It was in an X-files episode and Dana Scully was telling Fox Mulder about this legend she'd been told at convent school about a piece of pottery ware which held a recording of Christ's voice in Aramaic. My memory may be playing tricks but if it wasn't the X-files it was some supernatural or horror film. I know this isn't quite what you were after - I'm just glad I've remembered why it sounded familiar.
 
. My memory may be playing tricks but if it wasn't the X-files it was some supernatural or horror film.
No, I remember that one as well. And a particularily dull episode it was too, even for the X-files. No wonder you can only vaguely recall it.
 
Re: Re: top of the pots

Susan Bulmer said:
It was in an X-files episode and Dana Scully was telling Fox Mulder about this legend she'd been told at convent school about a piece of pottery ware which held a recording of Christ's voice in Aramaic.


It was the episode Hollywood AD. A very silly one at that, which David Duchovny wrote and directed. The only decent bit was where he was watching Plan 9 from outer space on TV which made me laugh oh and the bit with the bubble bath...

Umm did someone just tell me to get my anorak?
:eek: :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Re: top of the pots

Spooky angel said:
It was the episode Hollywood AD. A very silly one at that, which David Duchovny wrote and directed. The only decent bit was where he was watching Plan 9 from outer space on TV which made me laugh oh and the bit with the bubble bath...

If it's the one I think it is, I found the whole idea of Gary Shandling and Tea Leone as Mulder and Scully pretty amusing. Particularly when Mrs Duchovny was asking how on earth Scully could run in those chunky shoes.

ibid
Umm did someone just tell me to get my anorak?


What's wrong with an anorak? It keeps the wind and the rain out, and even has a hood you can pull over your head if the weather's really bad.

Meanwhile, back at the topic: the only "evidence" I've heard of the phenomenon was played on the ABC's Science Show some years back, when they claimed to have a recording of daVinci talking to someone. I think it must have been on one of their anniversary shows, as the people were speaking English with rotten Italian accents.

The latest I have heard on this idea, is that someone is now trying to isolate the roars of dinosaurs from leaves that have been scratched (by twigs or other leaves). I don't remember where, or more importantly when, I read this, so it, too, may have been a joke (although I would be reluctant to dismiss the idea that someone has taken it seriously).

The problem is, as with most cases of backward masking, that the listener will be able to hear that which they wish to hear.
 
Playing back Natural forms as gramophone recordings is an idea that
was explored in the earliest days of sound-recording. The German
poet Rilke suggested that the voice of Nature could be experienced
by using a soundbox to trace the groove of the cranial join of the
skull.

It would certainly make a noise - probably a unique sound for every
skull. But fingerprints are less bother and look groovier to me. :rolleyes:
 
Gregory Benford

If I'm not mistaken, it was a short story by Gregory Benford that popularized the notion that a makeshift stylus, such as a potter's thumbnail or a stick used to score a revolving pot, might respond to ambient sounds and make a recording that might be playable.

It was science fiction, based on a notion bandied about at the time by archaeologists.
 
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If I'm not mistaken, it was a short story by Gregory Benford that popularized the notion that a makeshift stylus, such as a potter's thumbnail or a stick used to score a revolving pot, might respond to ambient sounds and make a recording that might be playable.

It was science fiction, based on a notion bandied about at the time by archaeologists.

Here's a reference to, and the title of, the Benford story ...

Gregory Benford's 1979 short story "Time Shards" concerns a researcher who recovers thousand-year-old sound from a piece of pottery thrown on a wheel and inscribed with a fine wire as it spun. The sound is then analyzed to reveal conversations between the potter and his assistant in Middle English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeoacoustics
 
Mythbusters actually tried this and they reckon it was not viable.
Can't find the video online, sorry.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Stone Tape (original Nigel Kneale plot) which explored a similar idea, and of course led to a theory of ghosts and hauntings...
 
Just viewed that thread, and it revealed mixed views about the production. It was a bit dated, not least because Kneale's dialogue always had a 1950s kind of feel, but the basic idea was good. I don't recall anyone specifically coming up with that theory before that programme, but I seem to remember some Soviet researchers suggesting that emotions could be deposited on surrounding objects via condensation, an idea taken up by Colin Wilson. And of course Psychometry (sensing information from stones and small objects, not psychological testing!) must be based on something similar.
 
The Stone Tape certainly served to coalesce and provide a label for the notion of environmentally based psychic or acoustic 'recording' for the modern audience, but the basic concepts predate the drama in Western culture by well over a century.

Charles Babbage is usually credited as the earliest writer to theorize past sounds (or at least their physical after-effects) were in principle recoverable, in Chapter IX ('On the permanent Impression of our Words and Actions on the Globe we inhabit') of his 1837 Ninth Bridgewater Treatise:

http://www.victorianweb.org/science/science_texts/bridgewater/b9.htm

The more general notion of 'place memory' was popular in late 19th century psychic / spiritualist circles.
 
Didn't know about Babbage's idea - I suppose if you want to go back even further you could cite the concept of the Akashic Records (I'm guessing; introduced by Blavatsky or someone similar). "Stone tape theory" is certainly more snappy than the alternatives.
 
... And of course Psychometry (sensing information from stones and small objects, not psychological testing!) must be based on something similar.

I'm not sure how many 'flavors' of psychometry there have been. Of this ones I've read about, there's either been no substantive reference to acoustic / sound perceptions or the preservation of such sounds is contextualized with respect to a medium or matrix that's not physical (e.g., an etheric fluid medium).

A good example of this orientation can be found in:

William and Elizabeth Denton, The Soul of Things; or, Psychometric Researches and Discoveries. Boston: Walker, Wise & Co., 1863

... downloadable whole (PDF format) from:

https://ia902702.us.archive.org/30/items/soulthingsorpsy00dentgoog/soulthingsorpsy00dentgoog.pdf

(Most specifically - the authors' response to 'Question IX' in the last section, pp. 354 ff.)
 
Didn't know about Babbage's idea - I suppose if you want to go back even further you could cite the concept of the Akashic Records (I'm guessing; introduced by Blavatsky or someone similar). ...

This retrospective path does not lead as far back as Babbage.

The concept of Akashic Records traces back to Blavatsky and the theosophical / anthroposophical traditions. Blavatsky was only 6 years old when Babbage wrote his 1837 treatise, and the fully-fleshed out and 'Akashic Records'-labeled concept wouldn't emerge until the last couple of decades in the 19th century.
 
Charles Babbage is usually credited as the earliest writer to theorize past sounds (or at least their physical after-effects) were in principle recoverable, in Chapter IX ('On the permanent Impression of our Words and Actions on the Globe we inhabit') of his 1837 Ninth Bridgewater Treatise:
While it seems plausible in theory, it's hard to see how the homogeneity of (say) clay would yield a frequency response to record audio in any reliable way. Variations in the moments of the potters hand and/or any tools used, plus differing speeds of rotation and the filtering effect of the mass of any 'stylii' would make the signal-to-noise ratio absurdly high.

Having said that, I'm sure an intrepid experimental archaeologist could try recording sound onto a fine clay pot during throwing, using (e.g.) a thin spill of hard wood and then, once the pot was fired, try to play back the result using (say) a laser stylus - something that would be made much easier by knowing the exact speed of rotation while the pot was thrown. If that works at all, it might be worth trying to read a 'real' pot.

Although for my money, it's charming in East Anglia.
 
Mythbusters actually tried this and they reckon it was not viable.
Can't find the video online, sorry.

Yes. I remember that Mythbusters episode very well. They really did give it their best shot, with top quality audio hardware, but the outcome was as described below.

"The MythBusters were unable to recover any recognizable sound from the pot using a record player with a glass needle (to prevent scratching the clay). Even with professional audio enhancement and the most advanced sound systems available, they were unable to recover any discernible sounds from the straw-made grooves on the pots."
 
I'm not sure how many 'flavors' of psychometry there have been. Of this ones I've read about, there's either been no substantive reference to acoustic / sound perceptions or the preservation of such sounds is contextualized with respect to a medium or matrix that's not physical (e.g., an etheric fluid medium).

A good example of this orientation can be found in:

William and Elizabeth Denton, The Soul of Things; or, Psychometric Researches and Discoveries. Boston: Walker, Wise & Co., 1863

... downloadable whole (PDF format) from:

https://ia902702.us.archive.org/30/items/soulthingsorpsy00dentgoog/soulthingsorpsy00dentgoog.pdf

(Most specifically - the authors' response to 'Question IX' in the last section, pp. 354 ff.)
No, I don't recall sounds ever being mentioned in relation to psychometry. I had never heard of that book either -- thanks for the link, looks very interesting!
 
It's not really a "theory" though, is it? A theory is a testable hypothesis. With Stone Tape, we have no knowledge of a recording mechanism, and no knowledge of how to play it back.
Incidentally, I wrote up some thoughts here:

http://www.paullee.com/ghosts/sns_new.html

On the knowledge of a recording mechanism factor for stone tape theory, I remember watching some footage of someone placing an ancient earthenware pot on a record turntable type of machine and rotating it at a certain rpm whilst shining a laser beam on the groves so they could record and play back suggested ancient voices of the people who turned the pot on their potter's wheel.
 
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I also have distant memories of the earthenware pot thing. What was that from?
 
On the knowledge of a recording mechanism factor for stone tape theory, I remember watching some footage of someone placing an ancient earthenware pot on a record turntable type of machine and rotating it at a certain rpm whilst shining a laser beam on the groves so they could record and play back suggested ancient voices of the people who turned the pot on their potter's wheel.
Did they hear anything then.
 
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I also remember something along those lines whereby they tried to recreate the effect by shouting at stuff as it was being made to see if they could recover the 'recordings'.....
 
Did they hear anything then.
From memory, 'fuzzy' human sounding speech was played back from the rotating pot .. the opinion suggested was that the fingers used to form the pot created record like grooves capable of playing back sound. This should be an easy enough experiment to replicate .. hopefully ..
 
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