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TREY the Explainer Cryptozoology Videos

PeteByrdie

Privateer in the service of Princess Frideswide
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TREY the Explainer, mostly known for his paleontology videos, has started to an occasional series of cryptozoology videos. It looks as though his eye is a sceptical one, but there's room for all points of view. And, as with his paleontology vids, he stumbled through some names and gets some wrong (including the name of John Keel), but I think he's mentioned in a couple of places he struggled a little with dykleki... diskexy... word blindness, so it's little surprise he has trouble with those tricky dinosaur names in his other videos. Anyway, mothman:
Mothman again:
And the Flatwoods monster:
 
I'm not affiliated to this guy or anything, just really enjoyed a couple of his Cryptid vids that he's branched out into making, I'm already a subscriber for his dinosaur stuff.

His style takes a bit of getting used to, well worth sitting through though:


Flatwoods monster isn't one I'd heard of before, the 2nd part has a genuinely simple and curious possible explanation.

 
Thing is for me, he's dealing with, um, 'American' type cryptids. Mothman, and the Flatwoods monster. Not really designed for the UK market.
 
Thing is for me, he's dealing with, um, 'American' type cryptids. Mothman, and the Flatwoods monster. Not really designed for the UK market.
I'm still interested. Geography isn't that important*.


* That's not a dismissal of the science of geography...
 
No, geography is very important.

I think it's a question of taste though. I'm not having a go at the U.S, but the way I see it, the prevailing wind in American cryptozoology is more akin to that say in Russia.
 
Saying that, I think you could say just the same about it over here. With our ABC's and lake monsters. So all in all I'm probably talking nonsense after a night shift again.
 
I hate to say it, but these 2 are a bit far fetched for me. I have read the evidences and they don't seem zoologically possible. For that matter I don't believe in Lake monster either. Did give them some thought at one time. but large aquatic beast in developed countries hanging out for years on end w/o hard evidences in limited sized bodies of water, sorry.
Now something might be yet lurking in New Guinea, Kamchatka or perhaps equatorial Africa?

My dime.
 
I hate to say it, but these 2 are a bit far fetched for me. I have read the evidences and they don't seem zoologically possible. For that matter I don't believe in Lake monster either. Did give them some thought at one time. but large aquatic beast in developed countries hanging out for years on end w/o hard evidences in limited sized bodies of water, sorry.
Now something might be yet lurking in New Guinea, Kamchatka or perhaps equatorial Africa?

My dime.
Regarding the Mothman and Flatwoods Monster, Trey agrees. Regarding the lake monsters, I'll have to look it up when I get time (could be a while), but wasn't a population of large turtles discovered in a lake in the middle of Hanoi some years back?
 
Regarding the Mothman and Flatwoods Monster, Trey agrees. Regarding the lake monsters, I'll have to look it up when I get time (could be a while), but wasn't a population of large turtles discovered in a lake in the middle of Hanoi some years back?
Well as for turtles the leatherback is by and far the largest, growing to > 7' long and supposedly weighing in at upwards to a ton. Official record is 1433 pounds.

There is - was a giant soft shelled turtle in Vietnam, supposedly growing up to 400 pounds. It habitat is limited to a lake near Hanoi . It's thought that only 3 of these turtles remain alive, likely not enough for a breeding population?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...er-turtle-vietnam-animals-science-endangered/
 
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Four Sea Monster Carcasses Explained. No uncharted waters for regulars of this forum, probably, but since there's a thread for it...

 
It's a great vid - I'm sure there was a huge 'globster' at some point where the DNA tested positive for octopus, so interested to see what he makes of that one.
 
And, another three sea monster carcasses given the Trey treatment. The 'treyment', I'm going to call it. Actually, no, I'll never say that again.
 
Thanks for explaining that.
 
Not sure about this. The video was posted yesterday. If I have that right. And in it he says that he's researched it. Yet he doesn't mention that the boat fender explanation was suggested last year by Darren Naish.

Surely he should have acknowledged that.
 
Not sure about this. The video was posted yesterday. If I have that right. And in it he says that he's researched it. Yet he doesn't mention that the boat fender explanation was suggested last year by Darren Naish.

Surely he should have acknowledged that.
I've added a comment to the video. He's usually on it when it comes to giving credit for theories. I don't think he was taking this one very seriously from the start, though.
 
A very indepth look at the ropen. It was never very convincing as a pterosaur if you ask me.

 
A very indepth look at the ropen. It was never very convincing as a pterosaur if you ask me.

He's not very good at explanation in that video. In fact he falls right into the exact problems he says are used as evidence. He starts out with people are terrible witnesses, and then goes into his explaining based entirely on witness drawings/testimony/stories whatever.

'Stories say the ropen eats dead bodies', so he bases his morphological discussion on the basis of his assuming that's all they eat (in fact he directly says that he assumes that's all they eat as the basis for the discussion). If they exist, they could be scavenging bodies and not solely subsiding on them. Eating bodies would probably be highly notable by the local populations if witnessed, but a creature eating plants or fish or whatever is not notable. He jumps from the idea that they can eat bodies to the idea that all they eat are bodies.

They could also not be eating bodies at all and the idea of them doing so could be pure folk tale and false, for example later Trey talks about the 'leg boy' cut from his mothers leg that became the sun in dealing with the place of the ropen in local mythology. I presume no little boys were cut from their mother's leg and became the sun. But since Trey's starting position is acceptance of the tales of ropen eating bodies, he would logically have to accept 'leg boy' becoming the sun, or any other local myth. Trey concludes that the hypothetical ropen couldn't exist because it couldn't eat bodies as sole sustenance. The parallel conclusion would be that the sun does not exist because leg boys can't turn into the sun. I am pretty sure the sun exists.

'It's long tail makes it unsuitable for flight', he is once again relying on witness testimony when his opening argument is that witness testimony is terribly unreliable. He also (around 14:20 minute mark) emails an "actual pterosaur expert" (a paleontologist) about the long tail and posts the person's responses in his video.

Unfortunately for Trey, his chosen expert's response begins with "We know a lot of long tailed pterosaurs had crests now,". According to the expert, there were indeed pterosaurs with long tails even if they did not have the crest the ropen is supposed to have. The expert also says that a long tail may be good or bad depending on the flight characteristics and the creature's lifestyle. Trey's position was that the ropen's reported long tail made it an impossible creature, something his expert's statements contradict.

'It glows' while there are no other tetrapods that glow. Maybe it doesn't actually glow at all, but 'glows' because it's seen high in the air around dusk, when it's still in the sunlight while the observer is not. We've seen this effect recently with the various rocket contrails getting reported as alien rays or ufos or whatnot in the press, but you don't have to be nearly that high up to be in the sunlight while the observer is not in order to 'glow' from reflected sunlight with nothing around you to make it look like you are actually glowing.

'It's not a surviving pterosaur'. Ok fine. I'll accept that. What if it's not that but something else that happens to look similar because it occupies a similar ecological niche. He looks at a "ropen video" and declares it to be a frigate bird. Which of course the creature is the video most likely is. Unfortunately for Trey there's a problem with his identifying the creature in the video as a frigate bird (and not for example, saying it was CGI).

The problem is that he admits the video is of a real creature, even if it's not a "ropen". He identifies it as a frigate bird, but that's a problem because the frigate bird has a relatively long tail, relatively large wingspan, and a known ability to stay aloft for weeks at a time. That's a problem because Trey has already concluded that the ropen's long tail makes it an impossible creature, yet he is identifying the video of a long tailed flying creature as a real creature.

He's saying that something that an observer identifies as a ropen exists, even if it's not a "ropen". If the hypothetical ropen was a competitor for the same ecological niche, it would likely look broadly similar to a frigate bird. It's a problem of a rose by any other name.

While the ropen most likely does not exist of course, his explanation for why it is not real is poor and purely reliant on the same things that he starts his video are saying are unreliable, and the conclusions he comes to such as the tail are both contradicted by the his choice of actual expertise on the subject and his own acknowledgement of a creature with the morphology he says is impossible.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Frigate birds in flight, the most likely explanation for a ropen:
frigatebird1-704c6761b493ec936e6e15f645001d2aa58ceec8-s800-c85.jpg
 
I suppose he's a bit stuck with the eyewitness stuff because there's no physical evidence or photos/film that show much of anything, so while it's unreliable, it's also all he's really got to comment on.

He does ramble on a bit in this one, which gets hard going after a while.

One of those statue things does look a bit like nyarlathotep. :p
 
I suppose he's a bit stuck with the eyewitness stuff because there's no physical evidence or photos/film that show much of anything, so while it's unreliable, it's also all he's really got to comment on.

He does ramble on a bit in this one, which gets hard going after a while.

One of those statue things does look a bit like nyarlathotep. :p
Basically, for an "Explainer", he's doing a bad job of explaining. Most of his ropen conclusions are based on faulty premises. As he presents himself as the science sort that's a problem, bad methods.

It's not that there is no video evidence, there is the pretty clear video evidence he includes of the "ropen". He simply says the creature in the video evidence is not a ropen because it looks like a frigate bird. He's most likely correct of course in that it's most likely a frigate bird.

The problem is his saying that video identifying something as a ropen when it's most likely a frigate bird means that the ropen does not exist. It's akin to taking some distant video of a cat and using the video to say dogs do not exist because it's video of a cat. After all, both are roughly the same size, walk on four legs, have fur, have fairly long tails, eat mostly meat, so how could a dog possibly exist when there are already cats?

His basic premise is that the morphology of the ropen is impossible, but then both says (the frigate bird) and is told by his expert something with the broad morphology of a ropen exists. When presented with direct evidence to the contrary, both the frigate bird video and the paleontologist's statements, he does not change his conclusion that the ropen is impossible.

I'm not trying to argue for the existence of the ropen, just saying that his explanation of the ropen falls trap to a number of evidence problems, including the very ones he himself identifies at the start. As a scientist, he's doing bad science.

There is a known creature with the basic morphology that could be misinterpreted by witnesses to the specific reputed morphology. The stories of the ecology of the ropen are also unreliable human testimony. Even the unique physical feature of "glowing" have possible natural explanation (being in the sun, perception of iridescence) that do not involve the extreme unlikelihood of being the only glowing tetrapod but once again, witness perception.

The above does not mean that ropens exist, just that a creature that could be described as one could exist within reasonable confines of witness testimony.
 
He's not very good at explanation in that video. In fact he falls right into the exact problems he says are used as evidence. He starts out with people are terrible witnesses, and then goes into his explaining based entirely on witness drawings/testimony/stories whatever.

'Stories say the ropen eats dead bodies', so he bases his morphological discussion on the basis of his assuming that's all they eat (in fact he directly says that he assumes that's all they eat as the basis for the discussion). If they exist, they could be scavenging bodies and not solely subsiding on them. Eating bodies would probably be highly notable by the local populations if witnessed, but a creature eating plants or fish or whatever is not notable. He jumps from the idea that they can eat bodies to the idea that all they eat are bodies.

They could also not be eating bodies at all and the idea of them doing so could be pure folk tale and false, for example later Trey talks about the 'leg boy' cut from his mothers leg that became the sun in dealing with the place of the ropen in local mythology. I presume no little boys were cut from their mother's leg and became the sun. But since Trey's starting position is acceptance of the tales of ropen eating bodies, he would logically have to accept 'leg boy' becoming the sun, or any other local myth. Trey concludes that the hypothetical ropen couldn't exist because it couldn't eat bodies as sole sustenance. The parallel conclusion would be that the sun does not exist because leg boys can't turn into the sun. I am pretty sure the sun exists.

'It's long tail makes it unsuitable for flight', he is once again relying on witness testimony when his opening argument is that witness testimony is terribly unreliable. He also (around 14:20 minute mark) emails an "actual pterosaur expert" (a paleontologist) about the long tail and posts the person's responses in his video.

Unfortunately for Trey, his chosen expert's response begins with "We know a lot of long tailed pterosaurs had crests now,". According to the expert, there were indeed pterosaurs with long tails even if they did not have the crest the ropen is supposed to have. The expert also says that a long tail may be good or bad depending on the flight characteristics and the creature's lifestyle. Trey's position was that the ropen's reported long tail made it an impossible creature, something his expert's statements contradict.

'It glows' while there are no other tetrapods that glow. Maybe it doesn't actually glow at all, but 'glows' because it's seen high in the air around dusk, when it's still in the sunlight while the observer is not. We've seen this effect recently with the various rocket contrails getting reported as alien rays or ufos or whatnot in the press, but you don't have to be nearly that high up to be in the sunlight while the observer is not in order to 'glow' from reflected sunlight with nothing around you to make it look like you are actually glowing.

'It's not a surviving pterosaur'. Ok fine. I'll accept that. What if it's not that but something else that happens to look similar because it occupies a similar ecological niche. He looks at a "ropen video" and declares it to be a frigate bird. Which of course the creature is the video most likely is. Unfortunately for Trey there's a problem with his identifying the creature in the video as a frigate bird (and not for example, saying it was CGI).

The problem is that he admits the video is of a real creature, even if it's not a "ropen". He identifies it as a frigate bird, but that's a problem because the frigate bird has a relatively long tail, relatively large wingspan, and a known ability to stay aloft for weeks at a time. That's a problem because Trey has already concluded that the ropen's long tail makes it an impossible creature, yet he is identifying the video of a long tailed flying creature as a real creature.

He's saying that something that an observer identifies as a ropen exists, even if it's not a "ropen". If the hypothetical ropen was a competitor for the same ecological niche, it would likely look broadly similar to a frigate bird. It's a problem of a rose by any other name.

While the ropen most likely does not exist of course, his explanation for why it is not real is poor and purely reliant on the same things that he starts his video are saying are unreliable, and the conclusions he comes to such as the tail are both contradicted by the his choice of actual expertise on the subject and his own acknowledgement of a creature with the morphology he says is impossible.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Frigate birds in flight, the most likely explanation for a ropen:
frigatebird1-704c6761b493ec936e6e15f645001d2aa58ceec8-s800-c85.jpg

It's really great to read something like this, a critical evaluation of a sceptic's viewpoint.

I can't listen to this video for a few days. I won't have access to a computer with sound until then. So I can't comment on whether this particular case is made weakly or not.


But, I've loved cryptozoology for as long as I can remember, though I can't think of any proposed cryptid that I can believe in*. That said, I've noticed a tendency among other sceptics to rely on the same sort of lazy and biased thinking as displayed by some on the other side of the argument.

So again, well done for this post.

* I still support in principle, and admire anyone who takes the time to investigate them.
 
Having now seen the video, I'd say that his focus on eyewitness testimony, despite already pointing out how unreliable this is, was because there isn't anything else to it. I think he had to address what is supposedly being described.

The objections he raises about the length of tail, is based on scale. According to him he ropen as described, is just too big for that much drag. On a smaller animal, a frigate bird, it's OK. As with the pterosaur expert's input, it came down to size, with them noting that the larger version seem to have reduced significantly, or lost their tails.

All in all I found this one very fair.
 
I've got quite into these videos. Not so much the cypto ones, but the paleontology stuff is fascinating.
 
The Tully Monster is one I hadn't heard of before, very bizarre creature that I'd have guessed (incorrectly) as a mollusc:

 
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