Twins & Other Birth Multiples (Triplets, Etc.)

EnolaGaia

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Twins I've known have generally tended to value their similarities but eventually exhibit and even nurture some measure of difference between themselves. This story seems to involve two sets of twins who are at the other end of the spectrum - i.e., taking every opportunity to maintain and accentuate similarity.
Identical twins married to identical twins are both pregnant

A pair of identical twin sisters who married identical twin brothers announced they are both pregnant.

Brittany and Briana Salyers, who met their husbands, Josh and Jeremy, at the 2017 Twins Day festival in Twinsburg, Ohio, and were married in a TLC special titled Our Twinsane Wedding, announced on their joint Instagram account that they are both pregnant. ...

"Our children will not only be cousins, but full genetic siblings and quaternary multiples! Can't wait to meet them and for them to meet each other," the post said.

The couples live together in the same home and the sisters previously said they had hoped to become pregnant at the same time and give birth on the same day.

SOURCE: https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2020/0...ntical-twins-are-both-pregnant/7181597856291/
 

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EnolaGaia

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When the babies are born, will they seem to be twins?

Maybe, maybe not ... Identical twins are not strictly "identical" at the genomic level, but the differences are so subtle that much deeper genomic testing and analysis is required to detect them. These usually involve traces of differential genetic activity during development in the womb. Same basic "recording", but slight differences in the actual "playback", so to speak ...

My point is that such minute differences in the genomes - crossed with similar variations in the other set of twins - might make enough difference in the resultant babies to be noticeable.

My guess is the children will be notably similar in appearance (assuming they're of the same sex).

I don't know whether the babies would (or could ... ) be so genetically similar as to be ascribed as identical twins after a typical DNA test.

There's a distinction to be drawn between the strictly genetic and the genealogical aspects of this case. The terminology used in the twin couples' press release is confusing. The phrase "genetic sibling" is usually encountered as a genealogical term denoting children of a parental pair who are genetically descended from those same parents (as opposed to, e.g., being adopted). AFAIK it's a stretch to consider these prospective babies as "genetic siblings."

The term "quaternary multiple" is even more mysterious. A "multiple" is a member of a multiple birth event. Twins are therefore technically "multiples", but the term "multiple" is usually reserved for fraternal twins only. All members of larger sets (triplets; *-tuplets) are "multiples." As far as I can tell the term "quaternary multiple" isn't used in genealogy, genetics or medicine in reference to babies or lines of descent. I suspect it's something the two couples invented to connote double cousins* so genetically similar as to be akin to fraternal twins.

* The term "double cousins" is a known genealogical term. It connotes children of two parental pairs wholly comprised of siblings from two families (in any combination).

The prospective babies will definitely be double cousins. This is the only label cited that clearly makes sense.
 

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Chaplin twins separated following sister's death
From the archive, first published Tuesday 25th Sep 2007.

FOR decades they were inseparable, identical twins who dressed, thought and spoke as one.

The astonishing Chaplin twins made headlines around the world for their bizarre life as near-perfect clones of each other.

Freda and Greta walked in step, ate in tandem, had the same mannerisms and, incredibly, often appeared to speak simultaneously.

But now Freda is facing the rest of her life alone - after the death of Greta at the age of 64.

The pair lived in Moor Lane, York, in the same house where they were born in 1943. and in 1981 their remarkably close life was exposed to the world.

A lorry driver took them to court claiming they had hounded him for 15 years.

In court they dressed identically and spoke exactly the same words virtually as one, with only the briefest moment between one starting and the other following.

The two were jailed for a month for breaching the peace but the case - and the twins in particular - proved fascinating for media around the world.

One report at the time of the court case said their deputy headmaster placed the blame for their extreme closeness on their mother.

"It was quite clear that they had a doting mother who never allowed them a separate identity," he said.

The pair were said to have been ordinary children until the age of about 11 when they became dependent on each another. They would scream when teachers made them sit apart in school, and would resist efforts to distinguish or divide them.

The closeness continued right to the end. "You could not part them," said one neighbour.

"They used to come here and if I gave them biscuits they would both reach for the same biscuit at the same time."

Greta died of cancer and carcinomatosis in June. Freda is now thought to be in a care home.

http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/20 ... 38425.html

Freda died earlier this year.

Freda Chaplin death: buried with twin Greta in York grave | York Press
 

EnolaGaia

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... Identical twins are not strictly "identical" at the genomic level, but the differences are so subtle that much deeper genomic testing and analysis is required to detect them. These usually involve traces of differential genetic activity during development in the womb. Same basic "recording", but slight differences in the actual "playback", so to speak ...

My point is that such minute differences in the genomes - crossed with similar variations in the other set of twins - might make enough difference in the resultant babies to be noticeable. ...

Newly published research convincingly demonstrates that 'identical twins' are not genetically identical. This study indicates the average proportion of early development mutations by which they actually differ is on the order of 5%.
Identical twins aren’t perfect clones, research shows

If you’re an identical twin who’s always resisted being called a clone of your sibling, scientists say you have a point.

Identical twins are not exactly genetically the same, new research shows.

Scientists in Iceland sequenced DNA from 387 pairs of identical twins — those derived from a single fertilized egg — as well as from their parents, children and spouses. That allowed them to find “early mutations that separate identical twins,” said Kari Stefansson, a geneticist at the University of Iceland and the company deCODE genetics, and co-author of the paper published Thursday in the journal Nature Genetics. ...

On average, identical twins have 5.2 of these early genetic differences, the researchers found. But about 15% of identical twin pairs have more genetic differences, some of them up to 100, said Stefansson.

These differences represent a tiny portion of each twin’s genetic code, but they could influence why one twin is taller or why one twin is at greater risk for certain cancers.

Previously, many researchers believed that physical differences between identical twins were related mostly to environmental factors, such as nutrition or lifestyle. ...

FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/identical-twins-not-perfect-clones-bd557ea3e38b8292b3451f278117e8ef
 

EnolaGaia

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Here are the bibliographic details and abstract for the published report.

Jonsson, H., Magnusdottir, E., Eggertsson, H.P. et al.
Differences between germline genomes of monozygotic twins.
Nat Genet 53, 27–34 (2021).
https://doi.org/10.1038/s41588-020-00755-1
Abstract
Despite the important role that monozygotic twins have played in genetics research, little is known about their genomic differences. Here we show that monozygotic twins differ on average by 5.2 early developmental mutations and that approximately 15% of monozygotic twins have a substantial number of these early developmental mutations specific to one of them. Using the parents and offspring of twins, we identified pre-twinning mutations. We observed instances where a twin was formed from a single cell lineage in the pre-twinning cell mass and instances where a twin was formed from several cell lineages. CpG>TpG mutations increased in frequency with embryonic development, coinciding with an increase in DNA methylation. Our results indicate that allocations of cells during development shapes genomic differences between monozygotic twins.
SOURCE: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-020-00755-1
 

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I can't find the reference, but it is possible for one "identical" twin to be autistic and the other not to be! Your links above @EnolaGaia give me a reasoned background to explain this :)
 

EnolaGaia

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Fraternal twins separated and adopted in infancy have found each other. The odd part? They were acquainted in high school and had recently reconnected (as old high school chums) prior to learning they were twins.
Former high school classmates find out they're twin siblings

A pair of former classmates in Indiana who reconnected decades later on Facebook made a shocking discovery: They're long-lost twin siblings.

Karen Warner, 51, said she found out her biological mother's name a few years ago when Indiana unsealed adoption records, and the discovery came with a surprise: she had a twin brother. ...

Warner said she sought help from various adoption websites to try to find her long-lost brother.

"Everybody kept coming up with nothing because we didn't have a name to go by or anything" ....

Warner said the big break came when she obtained local voting records with a list of three men who shared her birth date.

The third name on the list, Mike Jackman, stood out because he was a high school classmate who she had only very recently reconnected with on Facebook.

Warner said Jackman a Facebook message saying they might be twin siblings, and the pair had a DNA test performed that confirmed their connection.

"It's filled a void in my life I didn't know was there," Jackman said. "There was something out there, I didn't know was there and now it's here. She's here."

FULL STORY: https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2021/0...-find-out-theyre-twin-siblings/2361613166857/
 

escargot

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More twins are being born than ever.

From t'Guardian -

World at 'peak twin' as birth rates reach historic high, study finds

Access to IVF and fertility services and postponement of parenthood drive rise in global twinning rates
Twins may be more common today than at any time in history, according to the first comprehensive survey of twin births around the world.

Researchers analysed records from more than 100 countries and found a substantial rise in twin birthrates since the 1980s, with one in 42 people now born a twin, equivalent to 1.6 million children a year.

According to the study, the global twin birthrate has risen by one-third, on average, over the past 40 years.
 

Nosmo King

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I just watched a segment on twins on the telebox and it got me thinking, with the fertility rates in the developed world on the decrease, the amount of people seeking help through IVF is on the increase, a reletively large amout of these IVF pregnancies result in multiple births, we hear, on the local news, usually the 'and finally' section, of primary school classes inundated with twins and triplets, my question is, it the fertility rates continue to fall, and the amount of multiple birts via IVF increases, will the developed world become one of 'clones'? (everyone having a lookalike)

Here are some stats on the increases of multiple births since 1990 that show a steady increase alongside the decrease of fertility.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971604/england-and-wales-multiple-birth-rate/
 

gordonrutter

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I just watched a segment on twins on the telebox and it got me thinking, with the fertility rates in the developed world on the decrease, the amount of people seeking help through IVF is on the increase, a reletively large amout of these IVF pregnancies result in multiple births, we hear, on the local news, usually the 'and finally' section, of primary school classes inundated with twins and triplets, my question is, it the fertility rates continue to fall, and the amount of multiple birts via IVF increases, will the developed world become one of 'clones'? (everyone having a lookalike)

Here are some stats on the increases of multiple births since 1990 that show a steady increase alongside the decrease of fertility.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971604/england-and-wales-multiple-birth-rate/
But they’re not clones. IVF typically sees several eggs implanted so that would give non identical twins.
 

EnolaGaia

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These Australian twin sisters have gone to extremes in being identical in as many ways as possible. This article is a teaser for a TV program featuring them, so maybe it should be taken with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, the claims are remarkable.
35-year-old twins share a boyfriend, use the bathroom at the same time, and view themselves as one person
  • 35-year-old identical twins Anna and Lucy are abnormally close and view themselves as one person.
  • They do everything in unison, from eating breakfast to showering to going to the bathroom.
  • They also share their boyfriend of 10 years, Ben, and want to get pregnant at the exact same time....
FULL STORY: https://www.insider.com/sisters-sha...om-schedules-extreme-sisters-anna-lucy-2021-6
 

Mythopoeika

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These Australian twin sisters have gone to extremes in being identical in as many ways as possible. This article is a teaser for a TV program featuring them, so maybe it should be taken with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, the claims are remarkable.

FULL STORY: https://www.insider.com/sisters-sha...om-schedules-extreme-sisters-anna-lucy-2021-6
All the identical twins I know are desperate to be seen as their 'own person' and not half of a twin couple. I wonder what will happen should one of the twins conceive and the other not?
 

EnolaGaia

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Japanese twin sisters have been Guinness-certified as the world's oldest living twins.
Japanese sisters certified as world’s oldest twins at 107

Guinness World Records has certified two Japanese sisters as the world’s oldest living identical twins at 107, in an announcement Monday coinciding with Respect for the Aged Day, a national holiday in Japan.

Umeno Sumiyama and Koume Kodama were born the third and fourth of 11 siblings on Shodoshima island in western Japan on Nov. 5, 1913. ...

Sumiyama and Kodama were 107 years and 300 days old as of Sept 1, breaking the previous record set by famous Japanese sisters Kin Narita and Gin Kanie at 107 years and 175 days, Guinness World Records Ltd. said in a statement. ...
FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-japan-siblings-5c3151ff85658f64a16006734c604412
 

oxo66

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Japanese twin sisters have been Guinness-certified as the world's oldest living twins.

FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-japan-siblings-5c3151ff85658f64a16006734c604412
If you read the certificates GWR have qualified their claim, unnecessarily, as the "oldest living identical twins". The GWR website also says "oldest ever identical twins"
So why do they add identical? They are certainly the oldest ever GWR-certified twins. this page has a claim for a pair of 108 year olds but that's not accepted by GWR.
 

EnolaGaia

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The reference to "identical twins" is probably intended to leave open a category for similar records applying to fraternal twins. Fraternal twins need not be of the same sex, and the statistical life expectancy difference between sexes would suggest fraternal twins of both sexes might exhibit different maximum / record joint ages compared to identical twins.

On the other hand ... Without genetic testing it may not be clear whether twins of the same sex are identical versus fraternal. I don't know whether Guinness or their designated gerontology authority the Gerontology Research Group (GRG) require genetic testing to verify attributions of identical versus fraternal twin-hood.
 

EnolaGaia

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As to the example of the Brazilian sisters ... Guinness uses the Gerontology Research Group (GRG) as their gerontology consultants and authorities on verified ages.

https://gerontology.wikia.org/wiki/Gerontology_Research_Group

GRG has strict guidelines for validating dates of birth, which prioritize public / third-party records as proof.

As the webpage to which you linked states, these sisters' birthdates could not be validated by GRG (or at least remained as-yet-unvalidated when the sisters died in 2014 / 2016).
 

oxo66

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The reference to "identical twins" is probably intended to leave open a category for similar records applying to fraternal twins. Fraternal twins need not be of the same sex, and the statistical life expectancy difference between sexes would suggest fraternal twins of both sexes might exhibit different maximum / record joint ages compared to identical twins.

On the other hand ... Without genetic testing it may not be clear whether twins of the same sex are identical versus fraternal. I don't know whether Guinness or their designated gerontology authority the Gerontology Research Group (GRG) require genetic testing to verify attributions of identical versus fraternal twin-hood.

Thanks. I didn't know, or possibly once knew and had forgotten that GWR use GWG as their authority.
As I was writing, I wondered if the intent was "Oldest twins (and they happen to be identical)". There are of course various qualifications to this record, and back in the day the GBR book used to publish more of them, so my thought does make some sense.
 

EnolaGaia

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Identical twins married to identical twins are both pregnant ...
When the babies are born, will they seem to be twins?

You can judge for yourself at the couples' joint Instagram page ...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVWDTDU...d&ig_rid=805dc70b-7183-4bcb-aff4-d633fc95fa4c

The twin / twin couples have recently begun showing off their babies, who were born circa 3 months apat.
Identical twin sisters marry identical twin brothers: Meet their babies

Identical twins Briana and Brittany, 35, married identical twins Josh and Jeremy Salyers, 37, and now they're introducing the world to their babies, who are so genetically similar that the cousins are more like brothers. ...

The Salyers are parents to Jett, who turned 1 in January, and Jax, who will turn 1 in April, and the cousins share more than the same first initial. ...
FULL STORY: https://www.today.com/today/rcna17270
 

Mythopoeika

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OMG! They do look so alike!
I don't think they look THAT alike. The fact they've dressed them in the same top is throwing things a bit. They both have big blue eyes, and they're both cute, but I wouldn't ever mistake one for another.
 

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This seems to be the only thread on multiple births, so I'll put this here

It appears the ultrasound scans only picked up seven foetuses, which clearly wasn't newsworthy, but nine were successfully delivered by caesarean:
Malian woman gives birth to nonuplets

All still hale and hearty.

The world's only nonuplets - nine babies born at the same time - are "in perfect health" as they celebrate their first birthday, their father has told the BBC.

"They're all crawling now. Some are sitting up and can even walk if they hold on to something," said Abdelkader Arby, an officer in the Malian army. They are still in the care of the clinic in Morocco where they were born. He said their mother Halima Cissé, 26, was also doing well.

"It's not easy but it's great. Even if it's tiring at times, when you look at all the babies in perfect health, [in a line] from right to left we're relieved. We forget everything," he told BBC Afrique.

He has just returned to Morocco for the first time in six months, along with their elder daughter, Souda, aged three.

"I'm overwhelmed to be reunited with all my family - my wife, the children and me."

They will just have a small birthday celebration with the nurses and a few people from their apartment building, Mr Arby said.

"Nothing is better than the first year. We will remember this great moment we are going to experience."

The babies broke the Guinness World Record for the most children delivered in a single birth to survive.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-61318427
 

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I knew a woman who had an identical twin - it was impossible to tell them apart.
One lived in NJ, the other woman married and moved clear across the country to California, and was pregnant. One day the twin in NJ was in excruciating pain - turned out her twin in California was giving birth that day, afterwards the pain was gone.
 
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