U.S. Gun Laws, Massacres & Racial Violence

AlchoPwn

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Remove the gun from the equation, sounds like a starting point.
LOL, are you going to do it? Would you send law enforcement to their deaths disarming the American public? It's against the Constitution for a start, by current legal reasoning. There would be an uprising of huge scale, and while no-one wants more school shootings, it seems to be a price the public is prepared to pay on a roughly bi-annual sacrificial basis. Think about that for a moment. Any outcome has to be based on a reasoned consensus, which is not the USA's strong point atm.
 

cycleboy2

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After the latest atrocity - 12 shot dead in a country and western bar - the question I'd like to ask, seriously and with no tongue in cheek, is what it would take to actually bring in even some minimal form of gun control. Twelve dead does nothing, dead schoolkids do nothing - apart from allow conspiracy theorist to spout their fruity-loop theories - and neither does the deaths of 59 people at a music festival. Would a killing in the hundreds, all-too-easily imaginable, or of hundreds of schoolchildren, again, easily imaginable with multiple perpetrators in a confined area? Would it?

Please tell me, what would it take for the country to throw off its collective lunacy. I'm not even going to listen to Trump's asinine comments that it would have been prevented if there's only been more armed people there, or his vacuous 'our thoughts and prayers are with the families' etc. Thoughts and prayers but not action. It's an offence to mankind. Period.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/08/california-borderline-mass-shooting-thousand-oaks
 

escargot

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Not even sure that would make a difference, to be honest. I think it is beyond even that. I actually believe there is literally no atrocity at all that would make a difference. None.
It's the other approach that's needed, with education and empathy. Can't see that working either.
 

Frasier Buddolph

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All our "leaders" have been able to suggest (arming teachers, posting armed guards at every public venue, etc., etc.) are ways of living with the problem. No one has any intention or any clue of how to address the problem itself. And I agree that, at this stage, there is no atrocity so horrible that it would cause a real change of public attitude.

I despair.
 

Mythopoeika

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All our "leaders" have been able to suggest (arming teachers, posting armed guards at every public venue, etc., etc.) are ways of living with the problem. No one has any intention or any clue of how to address the problem itself. And I agree that, at this stage, there is no atrocity so horrible that it would cause a real change of public attitude.

I despair.
Well - I guess they could start by automatically providing free counselling and therapy for all discharged members of the military, whether or not they show signs of PTSD or depression. Maybe that could have prevented this recent shooting.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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This latest atrocity just seems so random.
The massacre at the synagogue a few days ago was perpetrated by a guy with a history of extreme anti-semitism and participating in vile websites spreading bullshit about the "international Jewish/Zionist conspiracy", but this latest attack was on a C & W music bar, popular with young people. So where is any possible motive?
Maybe, after forensics have gone over the killer's home and scrutinised his Internet history, they may find something.
For now though, it just looks like an ex-serviceman, possibly suffering with PTSD, extrapolating his personal demons onto innocent people in the world at large.
Surely though, when he had previous run-ins with the law and had a track record of acting irrationally, how the hell could he still legally own a gun?
 

AlchoPwn

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Would a killing in the hundreds, all-too-easily imaginable, or of hundreds of schoolchildren, again, easily imaginable with multiple perpetrators in a confined area? Would it?
The only thing that might work would be a concerted attack on the NRA central office in Halifax Virginia with presently legal weapons conducted by a party of heavily armed card holding NRA members, that was able to kill the most outspoken members. In short, a domestic civil war within the NRA. The chances of that happening are very remote however.
 

Yithian

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Educating Americans? That's a contradiction in terms...
Not cool, I'm afraid. We have a number of perfectly well-educated Americans here and it's not on to smear them all with such a broad comment.

If there are individuals or groups who are impervious to education, name them--it certainly isn't all of them.
 

Coal

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All our "leaders" have been able to suggest (arming teachers, posting armed guards at every public venue, etc., etc.) are ways of living with the problem. No one has any intention or any clue of how to address the problem itself. And I agree that, at this stage, there is no atrocity so horrible that it would cause a real change of public attitude.

I despair.
It's baffling but I venture to suggest that until America somehow shifts its collective self-identity away from the 'right to bear arms', little will change.
 

stu neville

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Any inculcated view, especially one with which you have been imbued since childhood and is thus hardwired is very difficult to shake. Look at fundamentalists of any stripe. It goes beyond critical analysis, as their belief / faith / right is an essential part of their very being. For some in the States guns are a central part of their culture, just as cars or football - or religion - are for others, so in that respect firearms are an abstract concept as well as a functional one, and thus to deny them such an essential pillar of their being is an affront.

Is it right? No, of course it isn't, any more than extreme religious practices are "right", but it does explain why appealing to logic or reason is a fool's errand. It takes blunt, legislative force, which few politicians Stateside are willing to initiate as they know what a powder-keg (pardon the pun) that would be. Yes, it worked here and in Australia, and in other countries there's high gun-ownership but no such correlation in violence, but it's a socio-cultural function of the American psyche, and therefore uniquely difficult to curb.
 

maximus otter

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It's not a "gun problem".

The .223 cartridge in which most AR-15s are chambered has been available to the public since 1963.

The semi-automatic AR-15 has been sold to the public since 1964.

There are an estimated 5M to 10M AR-15s in US civilian hands.

There are millions of other semi-auto centrefire rifles owned by US civilians, including but not limited to AKs, M1 Garands and M1 carbines, FALs etc. etc.

Human biology hasn't changed.

What has changed since the mid-Sixties? Hmmm...

"Ooooh!
Look over there! A bunny!" - "Ban assault rifles!"

maximus otter
 

stu neville

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That's my point though - to a degree the guns themselves are secondary. It's primarily a cultural and sociological issue, exacerbated by the sheer damage potential of the weaponry available. I've heard the argument first hand, 25 years ago in a semi-rural area of the US.
Hunter 1: "You don't need a semi-automatic to shoot ducks."
Hunter 2: "No, but I can own one because I want one. I don't need an off-road truck to go to the grocery store but I've got one."
How many people in the UK own high-performance, 150 mph+ cars that they can't legally drive above 70 on open roads? Loads of them, not because they will drive at 150 mph+ but because they could if they wanted to. It's the same with the guns. And once you throw "home defence" into the mix - "I need an assault weapon in case a criminal with an assault weapon breaks into my house" it becomes even more intractible.
 

Dinobot

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Not cool, I'm afraid. We have a number of perfectly well-educated Americans here and it's not on to smear them all with such a broad comment.

If there are individuals or groups who are impervious to education, name them--it certainly isn't all of them.
All the dimwitted ones - I know there are smart, educated Americans who aren't insular, I was just mocking the deliberately ignorant...

Anyone who uses this site (and its successor) must be smart, worldly and wonderful kissers!
 
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The Cosmic Jester at work.

A man who survived a mass shooting in Las Vegas last year was among those killed in Wednesday's attack in California, his family says.

Telemachus Orfanos, 27, died alongside 11 others when a man opened fire at the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks, north-west of Los Angeles.

He escaped death last year when a gunman killed 58 people in Las Vegas.

A number of survivors of that shooting, the worst in modern US history, have said they were at the bar on Wednesday.

"My son was in Las Vegas with a lot of his friends and he came home. He didn't come home last night," his mother told ABC News.

"It's particularly ironic that after surviving the worst mass shooting in modern history, he went on to be killed in his hometown," his father told the Ventura County Star. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46150847
 

Mungoman

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It's a people with guns problem. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but nigh impossible, so, remove the other variable in the equation. Weapons.

That won't be done, so remove yourself from the problem - emigrate. (my apologies for sounding flippant - I have no intention of being flippant on this subject.)
 

Swifty

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A new(ish) Louis Theroux documentary discussing the Texas gun control laws. I'm not sure why it starts with bikers rescuing kids although the rest of it continues with gun debates ..

 
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Cop shoots security guard.

A black security guard was shot dead by a police officer as he held down a suspect in a shooting at the bar where he worked.

Jemel Roberson, 26, was working early Sunday at Manny’s Blue Room ― a bar in the predominantly black Chicago suburb of Robbins, Illinois ― when a patron who was part of a drunken group that had been kicked out returned with a gun at 4 a.m. and opened fire, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. Several people were shot.

Roberson, who was armed at the time, grabbed one of the men, held him down and waited for police, according to witnesses.
“He had somebody on the ground with his knee in back, with his gun in his back like, ‘Don’t move,’” Adam Harris told WGN-TV.
But witnesses said Roberson became the victim as soon as police arrived.

A responding officer with the Midlothian Police Department immediately shot Roberson, who later died at a hospital.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...cid=newsltushpmgnews__TheMorningEmail__111318
 
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