U.S. Military: UFO Investigations, Knowledge & Disclosure(s)

[skinny]

And I'm going to quote this post when it comes out You have been quiet all along so I am ignoring you until you are shewn to be wrong Skinny.

Quoting this post.

When it comes out.

Until you're shewn to be WRONG Skinny.

Yeah

 

[skinny]

I am speaking as a Cesarean.

 

[Souleater]

@skinny, @feinman

 

[feinman]

We've been here before --it's not about the phenomenon for some, if you know what I mean, and I don't 'ave patience for comments that waste my time. I'm usually against ignoring people, but she can go ahead and type away with those comments if she likes, and I won't see them.

 

[skinny]

Has anybody known of any military, Americanian or otherwise, disclosing their national secrets for the benefit of the lowest common denominator? If the Pathalogians had ever aggressively invaded, or indeed passively toured, from the planet Bleezor, would the authorities, assuming they were bright enough to recognise it, inform their masses of the contact?

See for me, the entire premise that the militants even matter to a race of galactic travellers with the wisdom of eternity is not rational. I watched The Day The Earth Stood Still, and the idea that the visitor would bypass the jarheads and make a beeline for the boffins made a lot of sense. So who gives a rat's arse about the hawks? They don't. If indeed they ARE at all. Which is entirely improbable.

 

[skinny]

We've been here before --it's not about the phenomenon for some, if you know what I mean, and I don't 'ave patience for comments that waste my time. I'm usually against ignoring people, but she can go ahead and type away with those comments if she likes, and I won't see them.

Aww you remembered that little spat? It was years ago. And even then I was right and you were wrong. Pull yourself together man. The masses are on your side. I'm an oppressed minority.

 

[eburacum]

In '52 the government was forced to hold a press conference about UFOs after they flew back and forth over the US Capitol, were seen by pilots in the air and simultaneously tracked on radar. The pilots could never catch them.

These UFOs were never photographed, and the evidence for anything unusual is appallingly meagre.
Here's the Condon report on this subject.
http://files.ncas.org/condon/text/s3chap05.htm#c2a

[The airman] was in the tower talking on the phone and interphones. He was watching a star and telling various people that it was moving up and descending rapidly and going from left to right, and [another airman] and I, listening to him from the roof, believed we saw it move too. Such is the power of suggestion.
This star was to the east slightly to the left of and above the rotating beacon. [The airman] reported the star as two miles east of Andrews and at an altitude of 2,000 ft.

Autokinesis again.

In summary, the following statements appear to be correct:
The atmospheric conditions during the period 19-20 and 25-27 July, 1952, in the Washington, D. C., area, were conducive to anomalous propagation of radar signals;
The unidentified radar returns obtained during these incidents were most likely the result of anomalous propagation (AP);
The visual objects were, with one or two possible exceptions, identifiable as most probably meteors and scintillating stars.

 

[feinman]

I've not watched this before, but will in a bit. If you do, let me know if you see any issues with it:

Well that was short!
Okay, you say scintillating stars. Duly noted as a possible explanation.

 

[feinman]

At this point can you think of anyone in the level of the military or government with associated security clearances as folks like Steve Justice, Chris Mellon, Podesta, Reid or Ratcliffe that have come out and challenged them and said they are full of beans? I can't think of any, but would love to see their arguments, too. Because from what I've read, just the extra footage of the Tic Tac incident alone if seen by the public could cause "grave damage" to the US. Not just the secret means of collecting the data; what the members of Congress saw caused them to demand this report.
I think it will be different this time because no major entity like the Air Force seems to be standing in the way of today's Hillenkoetters and Keyhoes.
Skeptics and Mick West and folks are doing their due diligence as scientists and will be the last t be dragged along --it is always that way, as it should be. But I think it would take a smidgeon of faith to think that there aren't some competent scientists in the government who have taken a look at it and also agree that it is not from here..
As another poster said: They are probably going to only (at least initially) release evidence that is ambiguous enough that it is possibly debunkable. This is exactly what has happened, and the events with Congress prove it.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Has anybody known of any military, Americanian or otherwise, disclosing their national secrets for the benefit of the lowest common denominator? If the Pathalogians had ever aggressively invaded, or indeed passively toured, from the planet Bleezor, would the authorities, assuming they were bright enough to recognise it, inform their masses of the contact?

See for me, the entire premise that the militants even matter to a race of galactic travellers with the wisdom of eternity is not rational. I watched The Day The Earth Stood Still, and the idea that the visitor would bypass the jarheads and make a beeline for the boffins made a lot of sense. So who gives a rat's arse about the hawks? They don't. If indeed they ARE at all. Which is entirely improbable.

I posted something on the Bizarre UAV/Navy thread that describes how the US Navy are testing countermeasures to confuse tracking and create false readouts to confuse the enemy. Follow the link and there’s info on balloons used by ships, planes and submarines that can display UFO characteristics in flight and fool detection systems too. There’s also details of the timeline of what’s being tested and when previous tests took place. The detailed information on this form of shaping the battlespace would be extremely valuable to foreign powers. Hence cover ups, secrecy and pointing ‘over there’ to Aliens as a distraction.

 

[charliebrown]

The Pentagon announced that they have failed in what China and Russia have been successful in doing.

The military had another failure to launch a hypersonic missile.

Former Defense, Thomas Modly, claims the world has become an extremely dangerous place with hypersonic missiles.

I think they are being developed as a defense against UFOs.

 

[eburacum]

Fravor says there is no extra footage. I am prepared to believe that he is an honest witness, like Col Halt. So we can forget about hoping for more footage, it almost certainly doesn't exist.

Of course, Halt got the dates wrong, and if you compare Fravor's account with the official account, sometimes he's flying west when he was really flying east, but that is certainly within the bounds of normal error.

 

[feinman]

Here is what I read:
https://www.livescience.com/navy-confirms-secret-ufo-video.html

 

[charliebrown]

Brandon Fugal, owner of Skinwalker Ranch and billionaire, starts his second season on U.S. History Channel May 4th.

Fugal bought the ranch from billionaire Bigelow in 2016.

Fugal will tell you without hesitation, that while filming the first season episodes, he and his crew had a stare down with a UFO.

Fugal says UFOs are absolutely real from his personal experience.

He claims that world governments are not telling the truth.

 

[feinman]

Brandon Fugal, owner of Skinwalker Ranch and billionaire, starts his second season on U.S. History Channel May 4th.

Fugal bought the ranch from billionaire Bigelow in 2016.

Fugal will tell you without hesitation, that while filming the first season episodes, he and his crew had a stare down with a UFO.

Fugal says UFOs are absolutely real from his personal experience.

He claims that world governments are not telling the truth.

Huh! I heard he had purchased it, but did not hear about the UFO encounter. I'll take a look on YouTube when I have a chance later.

 

[feinman]

Huh! I heard he had purchased it, but did not hear about the UFO encounter. I'll take a look on YouTube when I have a chance later.

Here he is:

"I was surprised at how open he was as told me; “Those first six months of owning it I really saw nothing myself that would lead me to believe that there was anything unusual. Well that all changed. I had with multiple witnesses with me an occasion where we saw what can only be described as an unidentified flying object, a craft a forty, fifty-foot-long silver disc hovering right above the mesa. Right in front of us. This wasn’t just a blinking light in the sky or something that was a little bit ambiguous. This was a solid object that appeared out of nowhere could move in the blink of an eye and over a twenty second period perform maneuvers that I believe defy any propulsion physics that we’re acquainted with.”
From:
https://www.abc4.com/news/success/a...fugals-eyewitness-account-on-jessops-journal/

I hate (read love) it when that happens!

Maybe this is it?

 

[Souleater]

Here he is:

"I was surprised at how open he was as told me; “Those first six months of owning it I really saw nothing myself that would lead me to believe that there was anything unusual. Well that all changed. I had with multiple witnesses with me an occasion where we saw what can only be described as an unidentified flying object, a craft a forty, fifty-foot-long silver disc hovering right above the mesa. Right in front of us. This wasn’t just a blinking light in the sky or something that was a little bit ambiguous. This was a solid object that appeared out of nowhere could move in the blink of an eye and over a twenty second period perform maneuvers that I believe defy any propulsion physics that we’re acquainted with.”
From:
https://www.abc4.com/news/success/a...fugals-eyewitness-account-on-jessops-journal/

I hate (read love) it when that happens!

Maybe this is it?

Is that Travis S. Taylor from 'Rocket City Rednecks'?

 

[charliebrown]

With all the police, pilots, military officers, famous people, normal people, kids, and billionaire to come out and say UFOs are real, how can people not believe that UFOs exist ?

 

[GNC]

With all the police, pilots, military officers, famous people, normal people, kids, and billionaire to come out and say

UFOs are real, how can people not believe that UFOs exist ?

Of course unidentified things exist, they just haven't been identified yet. But that doesn't mean they're alien intelligences. There are too many possibilities to be accurate about the "unidentified" in that way.

 

[Sabresonic]

With all the police, pilots, military officers, famous people, normal people, kids, and billionaire to come out and say

UFOs are real, how can people not believe that UFOs exist ?

More to the point what about people who have met the occupants of these UFO's ?

 

[feinman]

Of course unidentified things exist, they just haven't been identified yet. But that doesn't mean they're alien intelligences. There are too many possibilities to be accurate about the "unidentified" in that way.

But as in the old articles a lot of people have had a good enough look at them --from veterans to veterinarians to see that they are some kind of technology that is under intelligent control, and doesn't represent anything we know of here on Earth.

You know.. On beautiful sunny days like today, it sometimes doesn't seem possible that I experienced what I did --it doesn't seem like it could happen. Everything seems so pretty and comforting. Yet I know it did happen, and I know it does, but I certainly understand the feeling of skepticism. The idea of alien objects maneuvering around in the blue seems so unlikely.

 

[feinman]

Here is an example of a RCMP officer who was able to look at a UFO for an extended period through a telescope.
That would be a UFO, folks. Also moves side to side and up and down. Remember the many other posts where that movement is pointed out?? Yessss.. Yesssss... You do. I had forgotten that this object exhibited that movement too.. Added bonus!
Eat it up!! :dinner:

It VERY much reminds me of the Rogue River UFO of '49:
https://www.ufoinsight.com/ufos/cover-ups/rogue-river-ufo-incident
"The two men with the binoculars would later describe the object as a “shape similar to that of a pancake”. Furthermore, there was a “vertical fin” on the upper surface but “no wings, no antenna, no lights, (and) no propellers”.
After a little over two minutes, the object would take off at breakneck speed towards the southwest.

There are a bunch of old articles where police officers and others look at them through binoculars for extended periods.. I'm not even going to bother digging them up.

Too bad the RCMP officer didn't get a video recording of that sighting!! We wouldn't have had to spend so much time trying to convince you skeptics, eh?
So.. Back to business.
1. Stars? <buzzer noise>
2. Our own aircraft? <buzzer noise>
3. A Bolide? <buzzer noise>
4. A weather balloon <foghorn noise>
Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth :sherlock:

 

[Comfortably Numb]

And I feel my part to play with UFOs is done. I don't have anything else to say other than what I have already, take it or leave it.

 

[stu neville]

And I feel my part t play with UFOs is done. I don't have anything else to say other than what I have already, take it or leave it.

..and then you've continued to contribute more than anyone else, pushing twenty further posts in this one thread, not to mention being fairly dismissive of other posters.

We've been here before --it's not about the phenomenon for some, if you know what I mean, and I don't 'ave patience for comments that waste my time.

..for which many of us read 'that don't agree wholeheartedly with me.' That's not how this place works.

Fugal says UFOs are absolutely real from his personal experience.

He claims that world governments are not telling the truth.

Would that be the 'I've got to fill another whole season on the History Channel' Fugal, who has claimed everything in that relatively small area from polts to shapeshifters?

With all the police, pilots, military officers, famous people, normal people, kids, and billionaire to come out and say UFOs are real, how can people not believe that UFOs exist ?

GNC sums it up nicely:

Of course unidentified things exist, they just haven't been identified yet. But that doesn't mean they're alien intelligences. There are too many possibilities to be accurate about the "unidentified" in that way.

Exactly. There are lots of variables, still. Nobody's ruling out the possibility of alien intelligences - quite the reverse, in fact - but that doesn't mean that anomalous aerial phenomena must be aliens. This overall false syllogism applies to many of the disciplines we study.

UAPs undoubtedly exist, but as ever we need to beware of both explaining away and explaining overinclusively (ie it has to be aliens!!). Each is as inimical as the other to measured research and discussion.

 

[Ascalon]

Just picking up on a point from earlier:

The Pentagon announced that they have failed in what China and Russia have been successful in doing.

The military had another failure to launch a hypersonic missile.

Former Defense, Thomas Modly, claims the world has become an extremely dangerous place with hypersonic missiles.

I think they are being developed as a defense against UFOs.

Given the kinds of UFOs that have been encountered recently, such as those featured in the US Navy aircraft footage, a hypersonic missile would be a very poor defence against such phenomenon.

Firstly, even a hypersonic missile takes a while to get up to supersonic, let alone hypersonic speed. Once it does, it is far from manoeuverable.
The ability of the observed phenomenon to accelerate and change direction without apparent regard for momentum or inertia, means that an hypersonic weapon would be almost useless.

A rail gun might be somewhat more effective, but again, probably very crude.

A directed energy weapon, such as a laser or microwave beam, might be more effective in tracking and targeting, but probably very limited in effectiveness.

Hypersonic missiles are very much about defeating earthly defences, not those of these observed phenomenon.

 

[eburacum]

Here are three new UAPs filmed by the US Navy - well, two new ones and a different photo of an old one.
The first one-'Jellyfish' is just an Airy disk, an out of focus blob, and we can't really see what it is in any detail.

An Airy disk.

=====================
The second one, 'Acorn', is a more distant image of the Batman balloon seen in an earlier photo we've already discussed. This image was taken a few seconds before the Batman Balloon image, so we should be able to get an idea of speed and/or size from the time data.

=====================
The third one, 'Metallic', also appears to be a metallic balloon. An inflatable dolphin has been suggested.

(a dolphin balloon)

=====================

All these images were taken on the same sortie, by the same hand-held camera. I think this only proves that there are a lot of toy balloons floating away in this region, and the Navy aircrew are quick enough to intercept them. This flight took place off the coast of Virginia, and the balloons probably came from a beach down there.

This just seems to indicate that the US Navy in particular is experiencing a flap. probably due to Chas Underwood's FLIR1 clip from 2004; Navy pilots seem to be producing reams of 'evidence' with very minimal value.

 

[eburacum]

Too bad the RCMP officer didn't get a video recording of that sighting!! We wouldn't have had to spend so much time trying to convince you skeptics, eh?

On the contrary, a video recording would have been something concrete to analyse. Invariably these recordings give much more data than the observers' subjective observations, and nearly always help us to identify the true cause. In this case I suspect it was a scintillating star, since it remained stationary for at least an hour and a half.

 

[eburacum]

It VERY much reminds me of the Rogue River UFO of '49:
https://www.ufoinsight.com/ufos/cover-ups/rogue-river-ufo-incident
"The two men with the binoculars would later describe the object as a “shape similar to that of a pancake”. Furthermore, there was a “vertical fin” on the upper surface but “no wings, no antenna, no lights, (and) no propellers”.
After a little over two minutes, the object would take off at breakneck speed towards the southwest.

The Rogue River report is interesting, because it coincides with sightings of the Goodyear blimp in that region.
The Rogue River witnesses only saw it for two minutes, in light misty conditions, and it seems entirely possible that the reflected sunlight could have obscured the Goodyear logo and the lower tailfin.
The disappearance of this blimp into the mist may have caused the illusion of breakneck speed.

But once again, no movies or photos to analyse, so we only have speculation. But the Goodyear blimp remains a better guess than aliens or extradimensional entities.

 

[feinman]

I've heard the blimp explanation, before, but don't think that was it. Still you have an RCMP officer looking for a very long time through a telescope at an object that filled the visual field --before it took off in a flash --just like SO many other UFOs. And the side to side and vertical movements too. Presto. I might dig up the many more sightings where objects are viewed for extended periods for DAYS.

I agree with you Eburacum that the material provided so far by the government is pretty debunkable or appears to be, but I don't think that is an accident --I think it is intentional. They are going to do things slowly and not lay cards on table at once.

 

[feinman]

This is from '51. Earlier during the "airship" wave of the 19th century similar articles were written about how ridiculous it was that the objects might be considered dirigibles. The article from '51 applies to this day = Spar-clinging Skeptics!
Clinging to the flotsam of the wrecked ship "Ye Olde Paradigm"

Do! Jump in and read those old articles, skeptics!