U.S. Military: UFO Investigations, Knowledge & Disclosure(s)

jacksoo

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What percentage of that 70+ years testimony is borne of, 'flying saucers', which Arnold reiterated was misconstrued and he never witnessed "saucer' shaped objects?

View attachment 40457

Perhaps some 80-90%...?

How is that equated with tantamount to a religious belief, that those who are not disciples exhibit symptoms of mental illness?
Well they do believe in a supernatural being from off planet
 

feinman

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I'm still unclear, Comfortable Numb. Do you believe that UFOs aren't round, spherical, ovoid? Are you suggesting that UFOs are ALL triangular or crescent-shaped? And all round, spherical, ovoid sightings after Arnold's are based on the mischaracterization of what Arnold said??
 
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feinman

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For me all UFO activity can be broken down into two types:
1. Demonstrations (in every sense of the word)
2. Displays
 

charliebrown

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Well, feinman, you know and I know, but we are just a grain of sand on the beach.

We are not rich or famous, so we don’t exist.

Also we have no proof of anything bizarre.
 

Ringo

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For me all UFO activity can be broken down into two types:
1. Demonstrations (in every sense of the word)
2. Displays

The term UFO is getting muddled in your posts feinman.

Of all the UFO sightings reported/experienced globally, a vast majority will be misidentifications of known objects (escaped party balloons, aircraft from specific angles, celestial events, meteors etc etc). The remaining ones are still UFO's as we have no identification.

What you are describing in your quote above are not UFO's. You purport that they are craft under intelligent control, therefore they are not UFO's or even UAP's, you have identified them. So perhaps you need a new label or a clarification so we can differentiate between UFO's (things in the sky that are unidentified) and your "Unidentified Powered Craft". (In fact, I quite like that... UPC).

I'm not trying to get pedantic, I'm genuinely trying to find a way of making things easier to follow as clearly your above quote is incorrect in terms of what the term UFO means but is correct in your definition of what a UFO is.
 

charliebrown

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Seth Shostak from SETI claims another view is everything is mechanical probes.

Machines can survive space radiation and long voyages in space.

The first Star Trek movie in 1979, Kirk and Spock have to battle Voyager 6 which was sent back to earth as evil probe.
 

feinman

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Seth Shostak from SETI claims another view is everything is mechanical probes.

Machines can survive space radiation and long voyages in space.

The first Star Trek movie in 1979, Kirk and Spock have to battle Voyager 6 which was sent back to earth as evil probe.
A lot of of us have been saying that for a long time. Seth has been one of the "little green men" naysayers along with deGrasse Tyson and Bill Nye and others. I won't be caring a lot when they suddenly become UFO experts, making an abrupt 180 degree turn in their views that would kill any human occupant were it a UFO. Yes Seth, just like humans, we wouldn't send squishy hard to take care of creatures out there at the edge of exploration. And yes, they would look like the Woonsocket saucers with metamaterial trans-medium modules like the Cocoyoc object, while others would be like small metamaterial balloons.
 

eburacum

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https://www.theguardian.com/comment...s-and-i-dont-believe-the-alien-hype-heres-why

I study UFOs – and I don’t believe the alien hype. Here’s why​

Mick West
The writer Leslie Kean wrote an effusive article in the Huffington Post lauding the development as a “groundbreaking” and “exceptional” discovery based on video and accounts from, her Chilean government sources said, “highly trained professionals with many years experience” and the “full participation” of academia and the armed forces. The UFO community rejoiced.
Three days later I, and others, identified the plane as Iberia flight 6830, departing Santiago airport.
One video, codenamed “Gimbal”, seems particularly impressive: it shows what looks like an actual flying saucer skimming over the clouds.
But my experience with the Chilean UFO immediately suggested a more mundane explanation: the infrared glare from the engines of a distant jet. Some investigation confirmed this was a very likely hypothesis. I looked up the camera’s patents; these revealed a de-rotation mechanism used to correct for “gimbal roll”, which would inevitably mean glares would rotate in the manner seen in the video. This is also probably why the navy gave it the code name “Gimbal”, rather than, say, “Flying Saucer”.
Other, less impressive videos (which UFO buffs also describe as being remarkable) have quickly succumbed to analysis. “Go Fast” was not actually going fast, and was consistent with a balloon drifting in the wind. “Tic Tac” did not show a craft moving like a ping-pong ball, but instead looked more like a distant plane with the apparent movement caused by the camera switching modes and performing gimbal rolls. “Green Pyramid” looked like “the best UFO footage of all time” for two days, then I pointed out it looked exactly like an out-of-focus airliner shot in night vision with a triangular aperture.
The evidence is underwhelming.
 

eburacum

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Don't forget, the Cocoyoc object was a balloon, and the Woonsocket saucers were fakes, so any resemblance is entirely coincidental.
 

feinman

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Don't forget, the Cocoyoc object was a balloon, and the Woonsocket saucers were fakes, so any resemblance is entirely coincidental.
Good to know. Can you show me the models that were found, or the reports that debunk them?
 

eburacum

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A good rule of thumb is - if a photo shows a saucer with visible, structural details, it is a fake. There are a few photos of saucers that aren't fakes, but they are generally out of focus birds, lenticular clouds, reflections in windows, and other similar misidentifications. The saucer I saw was probably some kind of parachute.

The Cocoyoc object was a fiesta balloon, with flexible pointed shapes (a common type of balloon in Mexico). You can tell its a balloon, because the pointed parts keep changing their relative positions.
 

charliebrown

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So, today the intelligence community gave the Senate intelligence committee their UAP report.

What the Senate does next is anyone’s guess.

Most comments on line have already dismissed the unclassified report if it comes out.
 

EnolaGaia

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... Most comments on line have already dismissed the unclassified report if it comes out.
... And that pretty much summarizes the history of UFO affairs during the last few decades ...

By the time a party demonstrably involved in UFO incidents reports, all too many among the potential audience have already assumed the disclosure is flawed, deceptive, or false in accordance with their own theories and opinions.
 

feinman

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The term UFO is getting muddled in your posts feinman.

Of all the UFO sightings reported/experienced globally, a vast majority will be misidentifications of known objects (escaped party balloons, aircraft from specific angles, celestial events, meteors etc etc). The remaining ones are still UFO's as we have no identification.

What you are describing in your quote above are not UFO's. You purport that they are craft under intelligent control, therefore they are not UFO's or even UAP's, you have identified them. So perhaps you need a new label or a clarification so we can differentiate between UFO's (things in the sky that are unidentified) and your "Unidentified Powered Craft". (In fact, I quite like that... UPC).

I'm not trying to get pedantic, I'm genuinely trying to find a way of making things easier to follow as clearly your above quote is incorrect in terms of what the term UFO means but is correct in your definition of what a UFO is.
It's a good point. I just use the phrase "real UFOs" because otherwise I'd have to explain myself often. I like to think of them as an advanced non-human technology thus avoiding the skeptics' "little green men" and "spaceships".
 

feinman

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Don't forget, the Cocoyoc object was a balloon, and the Woonsocket saucers were fakes, so any resemblance is entirely coincidental.
That makes perfect sense if you completely ignore the construction of the spiky "fiesta" balloons you are describing! If you look at your examples in the Trudel thread, you will see that the arms on those balloons are stubby conical spikes, and the circumference of those cones where they attach to the body of the balloons is huge; the Cocoyoc Object has thin hose-like appendages which it uses to land on as well as secure itself in the saucer --that's right, you still can't tell me why Trudel would glue the little ends of the arms of the Cocoyoc object on the outside of his saucer for ONE pic. And then never mention or notice them for the rest of his life... The fiesta balloon also makes perfect sense if you ignore the bright coloration and assume it was subject to a magical storm that removed the colors while transforming the surface of the object into a uniform metallic substance. The same magical storm also managed to not damage the balloon or deflate it in any way. This is assuming they had the fiesta balloons or ANY balloon military or civilian that matches the Cocoyoc Object.in the '60s. And the Mexican head of Kodak who analyzed the photos was just to dumb to recognize a fiesta balloon! None of the other Mexicans apparently identified it as such either. And there is no doubt it is in the second Woonsocket saucer. Not to mention the Yorba Linda object = not a fiesta balloon either and fits in the other saucer. It also has "legs". So... Yes..... All of these qualifications aside and you hit it right on the nose!!! :p
You like Mick and so many others, are choosing to fly blind; by ignoring ALL witness testimony that could lend some context to the images y'all try to debunk. Y'all are going to be T-boned by reality, and it will be your own faults. It is willful ignorance spiked with hubris.

P.S. There is NOTHING remotely scientific about claiming something isn't real because it cannot be so.
 
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charliebrown

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I don’t think people’s minds will be changed.

What has changed are polls claiming Americans are now more interested in UFOs than ever before.

Maybe it goes in cycles through out history ?
 

feinman

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I don’t think people’s minds will be changed.

What has changed are polls claiming Americans are now more interested in UFOs than ever before.

Maybe it goes in cycles through out history ?
It goes in cycles because there are algorithmic waves of displays and demonstrations by the objects periodically and sometimes the military has to talk about it --denying it of course.
Don't let skeptics and dweebles get ya down! They are having to admit in this report that the technology observed is more advanced than anything in the US arsenal, at Area 51, or anywhere in the US. That is HUGE. It is of course a purposeful misdirection to soften the blow by bringing up the absurd idea of Chinese or Russian drones... The Chinese are trying to take the lead in studying them, apparently! NASA is going to be studying them again, doubtless getting their ducks in a row for the painfully gradual announcement of what they already know ----that these objects represent an advanced non-human technology that has been here for a long time.
 
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Tanglebones

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P.S. There is NOTHING remotely scientific about claiming something isn't real because it cannot be so.
How would you define something as 'real'?
It's pretty obvious that people see things that they themselves cannot explain. A smaller percentage of those sightings are explained away as Vega, Mars, or seagulls.
That still leaves stuff that cannot be explained by the conventional laws of perception.
So that stuff, by definition , must surely be something that is
A. a natural part of the human psyche, or
B. our nemesis as an autonomous species.
 

feinman

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How would you define something as 'real'?
It's pretty obvious that people see things that they themselves cannot explain. A smaller percentage of those sightings are explained away as Vega, Mars, or seagulls.
That still leaves stuff that cannot be explained by the conventional laws of perception.
So that stuff, by definition , must surely be something that is
A. a natural part of the human psyche, or
B. our nemesis as an autonomous species.
Let's put it this way; I believe that the ocean is so big that there cannot be people on land on the other side, so don't bother showing me evidence that it is the case because it cannot be. It doesn't always have to be sorted neatly into the baskets of what is known, and everyhting else must be illusion. That's not how science progresses.
 

Coastaljames

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By the time a party demonstrably involved in UFO incidents reports, all too many among the potential audience have already assumed the disclosure is flawed, deceptive, or false in accordance with their own theories and opinions.

I do agree with this. I just keep going back to - why, would the authorities disclose?

Would it be in our interest or their interest?

I'm totally serious about these questions, serious and open. Why?
 

eburacum

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That makes perfect sense if you completely ignore the construction of the spiky "fiesta" balloons you are describing! If you look at your examples in the Trudel thread, you will see that the arms on those balloons are stubby conical spikes, and the circumference of those cones where they attach to the body of the balloons is huge; the Cocoyoc Object has thin hose-like appendages which it uses to land on as well as secure itself in the saucer.
Plenty of long, thin, hoselike appendages in the fiesta balloons used in Mexico. These balloons are custom-built by the people that fly them, which is why they never look quite the same twice. Here's a balao sputnik with long thin arms; they are named 'sputnik balloons' because they are intended to mimic spacecraft, or rather the popular idea of spacecraft formed back in the 1950's when the first Russian satellites were launched.
PONTUDO+(2).jpg


Note as well the distinctive open hoop at the bottom, which allows air to enter the balloon to be heated by the flame; yes, these are basically flying lanterns.

The Cocoyoc object also has this hoop-shaped opening.

balao sputnik1.png

Absolutely a balloon, and it is in Mexico, where there is a tradition of this sort of balloon. Case closed, I'm afraid.
 

eburacum

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More Balao Sputniks, to demonstrate their variety.
images
images
images
images
images
hqdefault.jpg
images

Note the circular hoop at the bottom of each balloon- a particularly distinctive characteristic, shared with the Cocoyoc balloon. Also the specular reflection, or sheen, shared by several of these balloons, and also evident in the Cocoyoc images.
 
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CharmerKamelion

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Great work there, eburacum. I reckon that small selection of balloons alone must be responsible for 80% of sightings. If I had seen any of those things in the sky I would've been mightily intrigued. Those crazy Mexicans! Trouble is, when a REAL alien craft flies over Mexico, anyone who sees it will assume it's just another balloon! Maybe that's the plan....

Incidentally, the one in the bottom pic looks slightly familiar. I wonder if it was the inspiration for the Atraxi, the aliens that featured in Matt Smith's 'Doctor Who' debut episode 'The Eleventh Hour'.
 

feinman

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More Balao Sputniks, to demonstrate their variety.
images
images
images
images
images
hqdefault.jpg
images

Note the circular hoop at the bottom of each balloon- a particularly distinctive characteristic, shared with the Cocoyoc balloon. Also the specular reflection, or sheen, shared by several of these balloons, and also evident in the Cocoyoc images.
So, did they have them in the '60s? Can you find one that is just metallic? Look at where the arms attach to the body --the circumference is waaay to big.
Other than having projections there is no similarity. You are also eliminating the witness testimony. Metamaterials don't always have to be rigid --well, that's the idea!
 

feinman

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It also appears that the Cocoyoc Object is inside the Woonsocket saucer --even without the little ends of the arms protruding in only one photo, I'd still have suggested it is in there, because the dome portion is an exact match --with the little "nipple" on top too, and you can see the shadow around the edge where it is squeezing out of the top of the saucer. Exact match. And the Yorba Linda Object seen in the first saucer --it wasn't a fiesta balloon, and it also has the arms / legs.
 
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