U.S. Military: UFO Investigations, Knowledge & Disclosure(s)

CharmerKamelion

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I completely understand feinman's enthusiasm, especially as - I think I'm correct in saying this - he has had the experience of seeing something puzzling in the sky himself. I apologise in advance if I am mis-remembering that. Sadly (I think) I haven't had any experiences of the phenomenon.

We are living in interesting times re: perhaps finding out what is - or is not - known about the cause of this phenomenon. As far as 'getting somewhere' goes, I would like to get to a place where we find out what is known by ANY authority - and that includes if all they know is 'we really, genuinely don't know what these things are'.

Anything that creates a more open, broad-based discussion on the subject is good as far as I'm concerned. I keep as open-minded as I can, but the more info and discussion there is about it, the better!
 

Coastaljames

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I keep as open mind as I can, but the more info and discussion there is about it, the better!

However. I do think we need to be very cautious when this "info" comes governments, militaries and intelligence agencies.

There is absolutely no reason that they would feed us this info without some kind of agenda. They are not sitting there thinking, "Awwww let's go put a smile on those UFO weirdo's little faces by telling them all about UFOs and aliens, they'll love that! It'll make their days!"

No.

They have an agenda that forwards their needs. Simple as that. And when we realise that then...the info? What it is isn't very important...what it's meant to achieve is very important.
 

feinman

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However. I do think we need to be very cautious when this "info" comes governments, militaries and intelligence agencies.

There is absolutely no reason that they would feed us this info without some kind of agenda. They are not sitting there thinking, "Awwww let's go put a smile on those UFO weirdo's little faces by telling them all about UFOs and aliens, they'll love that! It'll make their days!"

No.

They have an agenda that forwards their needs. Simple as that. And when we realise that then...the info? What it is isn't very important...what it's meant to achieve is very important.
I'd agree --I also think they are trying to get ahead of the situation, but there is a schism in the Pentagon and government, with some actively fighting release of information and Gough even denying that Elizondo ever worked for AATIP, etc. Some of it seems vicious.
Strange days indeed...
 

CharmerKamelion

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Yes, absolutely, CJ !! But even that would create some discussion. I know very few people personally who are even remotely interested in the subject. To them, it is either the stuff of silly sci-fi - or just not on their radar at all. Hmm.... maybe I just need better friends!!
 

Tanglebones

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Yes, absolutely, CJ !! But even that would create some discussion. I know very few people personally who are even remotely interested in the subject. To them, it is either the stuff of silly sci-fi - or just not on their radar at all. Hmm.... maybe I just need better friends!!
I can't imagine not being interested in this and other fortean subjects. Sadly , many people of my acquaintance take the the view that if they cannot do anything about it, then it's of no interest....and that goes for a lot more than forteana.
 

feinman

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fienman.

I am on your side.

Knowing UFOs are real is not my problem, because I know they are real.

My problem is I have no proof to present to anyone interested.
That's okay! I take solace in the fact that we aren't in control of the situation, and I find the government's attempts to cover things up and invoke Chinese drones to cushion the slow-motion blow that we are not alone, extremely funny and enjoyable. It is as though I've read the last quarter of a book and must wait to watch the television adaptation of the first 3/4 of the book to see how skeptics bite it and how the phenomenon intensifies to the point it must be acknowledged. I rest completely well knowing this is all inevitable, without a doubt in my mind. Of course acknowledging the reality one way or the other is not especially enjoyable either, so it's a Pyrrhic victory. Now we have a real situation on our hands, and we are really screwing things up on the planet. My main concern at this point is what course the phenomenon will take in the future --will it become much more visible? Will it continue in the same manner? (I think that's most likely), will it begin engaging military aircraft the world over and pace civilian planes? Will it move from a serious national security issue to THE national security issue of most importance? It all remains to be seen.
As far as the report goes, it will apparently suggest that
1. The technology observed is far beyond the most advanced tools in the US arsenal and has been flying in restricted airspace with impunity and can't be shot down. They can't prove they are from outer space, but they also cant prove flying unicorns don't exist somewhere either --so that is just kicking the ball forward, but doesn't really mean anything. I think UFOs might originate from a number of different places --outer space or a combination of that and something else seems most likely to me.
2. A foreign adversary might have developed these devices. I think that is ridiculous for a large number of reasons --including the historicity of the phenomenon, the lack of development or offshoot technologies from something so revolutionary, ridiculous deployment --if they were from an adversary, we would be engaged in WWIII. The fact that adversaries are still investing in obsolete tech, given the tools they would possess --even stealing US tech, etc.
3. So Aliens (yawn..) A non-human advanced technology regardless of where it is from (even an contiguous universe), is alien.

People who have encounters with UFOs either decide to remain silent and not report them (sometimes for fear of job loss, etc.), or decide that they are obligated to report them to their fellow humans or are so excited or traumatized that they can't help themselves. They will then come to know the "Frank Manor Effect"; that there is no convincing people who are skeptical. The only thing that would work would be for the skeptics to have their own encounters or the phenomenon to decide it is going over the tipping point an become much more visible. It's pointless to try and convince skeptics or to take it personally. I've come to know that forums are useful records of human knowledge, but I've never seen many minds changed one way or the other about UFOs or ANYTHING at ALL, for that matter. It is a human thing. It's also why we keep fighting and battling on this planet. I'd add that some of the most close-minded people I've met are... Scientists.
 
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feinman

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The Frank Manor Effect:
You tell 'em Frank.
At the end of the day, the most fascinating psychological thing will be the end of the debunkers and skeptics; I am certain many papers will be published about the phenomenon of blinkered human intransigence.
 

feinman

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I hope some of the stuff Corbell is mentioning gets released soon.
 

Sabresonic

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However. I do think we need to be very cautious when this "info" comes governments, militaries and intelligence agencies.

There is absolutely no reason that they would feed us this info without some kind of agenda. They are not sitting there thinking, "Awwww let's go put a smile on those UFO weirdo's little faces by telling them all about UFOs and aliens, they'll love that! It'll make their days!"

No.

They have an agenda that forwards their needs. Simple as that. And when we realise that then...the info? What it is isn't very important...what it's meant to achieve is very important.
Great post and it makes me think that the governments, militaries and intelligence agencies are the Aliens compared to us common folk...we should call them THE AGENDA ;)
 

feinman

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I completely understand feinman's enthusiasm, especially as - I think I'm correct in saying this - he has had the experience of seeing something puzzling in the sky himself. I apologise in advance if I am mis-remembering that. Sadly (I think) I haven't had any experiences of the phenomenon.
Yes, I did see UFOs in an amazing manner. I don't know of any other encounter that happened during a UFO festival (McMinnville), on the 60th anniversary of the photo being taken. The mind boggles. And to have been an office mate for many years with a fellow librarian who grew up literally right next door to the Trents. It was quite the display, and I could see five silvery glowing objects stationary in the air observing me. The whole thing happening on a usually busy highway (I-5), while I was completely alone... And then I found two corroborating cases from the same year in the same area -exactly the same descriptions --one on I-5, the other near. I actually think these objects are possibly some of the same ones that were (are) hassling the Navy, and have been seen other times in history too. It seemed incredibly deliberate --but I think that is perhaps evidence for the algorithmic model of long-term contact. Then I had a second experience --not as dramatic, but equally amazing in its own way:
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/my-ufo-experience-feinman.65904/page-3#post-2048765

You know if it hadn't happened to me --I would never have been on this forum or others and never met y'all... --I'd have no reason to discuss UFOs. And magic, while interesting wouldn't force me to post --so I would have ended it with posting on forums about the Bronze Age... I never posted about UFOs anywhere until it happened to me. One of the first places I posted about it was at the Bronze Age Center.
 
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Comfortably Numb

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I do wonder if there is any mileage in the theory that the phenomenon (whatever it turns out to be) operates in a positive feedback manner? In which it has a two way interaction with the observer which satisfies the preconception of the observer with the desire of the phenomenon to be observed.
If you look at accounts of triangular UFO observations, where the encounter is at extreme close proximity, e.g. directly overhead at only a few hundred metres, I noticed how often the witness(es) mentioned the enigmatic object almost seemed intent on an interaction.

This sometimes involved the object first being observed from a distance and then, as if realising it was being observed, would then come towards the person watching.

One case which immediately comes to mind, I was fortunately able to document in detail personally.

This was Juli's recollection, as related to myself:

www.forteanmedia.com/Juli.pdf
 

eburacum

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Mick West's interview with Jason Colavito.
It seems there are a small - a very small - number of people behind this current wave of enthusiasm for UFOs/UAPs;
Harold Puthoff, Eric Davies, Robert Bigelow, Luis Elizondo, Harry Reid, Chris Mellon; they are the promoters of a massive wave of disinformation a group which Colavito calls The Invisible College (a name coined by Jacques Vallee),

and it will all end in tears when there is nothing of substance to disclose.
 

dr wu

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Mick West's interview with Jason Colavito.
It seems there are a small - a very small - number of people behind this current wave of enthusiasm for UFOs/UAPs;
Harold Puthoff, Eric Davies, Robert Bigelow, Luis Elizondo, Harry Reid, Chris Mellon; they are the promoters of a massive wave of disinformation a group which Colavito calls The Invisible College (a name coined by Jacques Vallee),

and it will all end in tears when there is nothing of substance to disclose.
While I agree that not much will come from this report to be released I think Colavito sounds like a pretty typical debunker and hard core sceptic. IMO he exaggerates the beliefs and positions of people like Dr Vallee and others to support his own agenda. Dr Vallee has been very circumspect for most of his career and has never said he outright believes ufos and aliens are inter-dimensional; he has said it's a valid place to consider based on many aspects of the phenomenon. He never dismissed the ETH as a possibility and really no one should..its also a valid option. The Invisible College was coined long before any of this modern bruhaha...in the 70's btw...and had no connection to Bieglow , Mellon, Reid, Elizondo, etc...Puthoff might have been involved since he goes back further and while Dr Vallee did 'work with' Bigelow regarding that notorious ranch he stayed well clear of the outlandish claims.
Puthoff and Bigelow might be more fanatical in their beliefs but even so I feel Colavito is again exaggerating because he has a stake in his debunking position as a writer. It's his meal ticket.
Having said this I am also sceptical about the upcoming release and alien disclosure. But...I do believe there is a genuine 'ufo phenomenon' as Dr Vallee has described in his work and books . I do not think it is all misperception and hallucination. I think there is an unknown phenomeon that has 'interacted' with mankind for a very long time. Whether it is an unknown natural event , an intelligence, consciousness issue ,or even a human psychological issue remains to be discovered.
 

charliebrown

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The answer was no explanation and not enough data.

The answer was the worst of the worst.

Elizondo claimed a lot of in house fighting, so we see who won this fight, the people who want to keep it buried.
 

Analogue Boy

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At what point did Flying Saucers turn into Tic Tacs and why weren’t Smarties part of the engineering process?
 

Nosmo King

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Here it is!​

UFO report published by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence

https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/ufo-report-published-by-the-office-of-the-director-of-national-intelligence/
cant get it here in the UK :(

Screenshot_20210625-233521.png
 

feinman

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Here's the PDF:
https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf
They know a hell of a lot more than that, and it will come out.
Perhaps it is a good start though... What do ya think?
This is a good article:
https://abc11.com/few-answers-in-unclassified-ufo-report-/10831172/



"There are 18 incidents in the database, in the data that we're working with, in which the UAP do appear to have some sort of propulsion or other technologies that's not immediately evident, that could be advanced," said the U.S. government official.
Just like the "airship" descriptions in the 19th century
The official noted that the propulsion is noted less in high-speed incidents, but in "station keeping against the wind" where "we don't have clear indications of what's the propulsion that's being used for that."
And:
"In those incidents, UAP "appeared to remain stationary in winds aloft, move against the wind, maneuver abruptly, or move at considerable speed, without discernible means of propulsion."
 
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