U.S. Military: UFO Investigations, Knowledge & Disclosure(s)

Ringo

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'Coastaljames' mentioned the US govt releasing this info to get funding and power; they already have all of that in case someone missed it.
Our military and intel groups have more funding and power than they need according to most here in the US.
I believe some in the govt (obviously not all) felt they needed to respond to the constant pressure from the ruckus Elizondo and others stirred up.
And regarding sightings...someone else mentioned that France had 600 unknowns over the last 9 years since 2012...that comes out to about 66 near misses with ufos each year or 5-6 a month. Considering we must have similar figures and one assumes that other major countries like England, Germany, Russia, China, etc do also, well....those aliens must be pretty darn busy and pulling a lot of overtime just to look at our planes and ships all over the world which one assumes they have already done for a long time.
Are the aliens that bored that they need to continue to buzz us all the time or are they simply bad scientists and data collectors? Does this not bother anyone as being irrational?
So...what's wrong with this picture? And why is this never talked about on all the useless media programs?
I have wondered if when pilots see things whizzing passed them, whether this is just a product of their own forward momentum. Pilots are not used to seeing this as such close range when at altitiude. So a balloon or a drone passing within feet of them would be an unusual and scary thing.
 

Carl Grove

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'Coastaljames' mentioned the US govt releasing this info to get funding and power; they already have all of that in case someone missed it.
Our military and intel groups have more funding and power than they need according to most here in the US.
I believe some in the govt (obviously not all) felt they needed to respond to the constant pressure from the ruckus Elizondo and others stirred up.
And regarding sightings...someone else mentioned that France had 600 unknowns over the last 9 years since 2012...that comes out to about 66 near misses with ufos each year or 5-6 a month. Considering we must have similar figures and one assumes that other major countries like England, Germany, Russia, China, etc do also, well....those aliens must be pretty darn busy and pulling a lot of overtime just to look at our planes and ships all over the world which one assumes they have already done for a long time.
Are the aliens that bored that they need to continue to buzz us all the time or are they simply bad scientists and data collectors? Does this not bother anyone as being irrational?
So...what's wrong with this picture? And why is this never talked about on all the useless media programs?
The picture is still confused whether you are pro the ETH or doubtful about it. Seeing the slick presentation of Elizondo's TV series, the way he was able to present the gun camera footage showing UFOs flying around the US fleet, I think the whole thing was part of the same plan, a quite intentional process of disclosure, but of what? Right from 1947 on there has been a pattern. Official denial combined with disclosure, initially via Donald Keyhoe in the 50s-60s, then via Vallee and Hynek and the Condon fiasco. If officialdom had really wanted to cover up things they could have done a lot better -- look how well they keep their black projects secure. And that raises the issue that many of the earliest cases (e.g. Roswell) were almost certainly indicative of tests of the recently acquired Nazi secret weapons. (Rocket developments were already well known so they and their operatives, von Braun et al, were kept in the public eye.) So stories about alien space craft sightings came in handy to distract attention from the bigger picture. At the same time, something else was going on -- UFO landings, occupant reports, contactee claims, then eventually alleged abductions. Many of these cases could be indicative of a quite separate process, whether ET or Magonia at work. Finally, to tie the ends together, comes von Braun's own claims that the US was planning to weaponise space using a series of fake threats -- terrorism, asteroid impacts and finally extraterrestrials. We have had the terrorists, and the stories about asteroids -- is this (and the formation of the US Space Force) the final phase of the plan? Finally, it doesn't matter whether we are right or wrong about any of this. The "average" person who is largely unaware of the whole picture will likely go along with the simplistic "alien potential threat" and China has already said something about their own plans in space that sounds worrying. The only definite conclusion I can come to is that we are living in very interesting times!
 

Analogue Boy

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Interesting article on the whole thing here…

https://theconversation.com/the-tru...-be-a-problem-of-intelligence-failings-163185

As it stands, the UAP issue seems like a microcosm of everything that can go wrong with intelligence. If the UAP report suggests anything, it’s that pilots are struggling to make sense of increasingly noisy skies, that military sensors cannot always be relied upon, and that the Pentagon’s analysts are out of their depth.

It also shows that unless the Department of Defense obtains clear evidence of an undeniable craft operating in undeniably extraordinary ways, Congress, and the public, should remain sceptical of UAP proponents.
 

charliebrown

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I don’t think there is a money problem for black projects in the U.S.

Wikipedia estimates the amount maybe around 80 billion dollars a year.

This is tax payers money, but no one knows where it goes.

For all we know, government people could be having a 24/7 party in the Caribbean.
 

dr wu

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When has anyone, particularly those involved in political circles, ever had enough power and money?



Really mate? I think it's important for our interested "community" to realise that 99.9% of the population of any country couldn't give two monkey's about any of this stuff. At best they joke about it, at worse they ignore it completey. Us "carers" are an absolute speck in the ocean. The amount of pressure we can put on our governments is the equivalent as the amount of presseure a flea could put on a brontosaurus.
I don't think 'they' need to pretend about ufo disclosure to get 'power and money'...assuming they don't have enough.
And I do think there are people in the govt who probably want some kind of dislcosure...if there is anything to disclose.
;)
 

Analogue Boy

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But you don’t really want a sensible government wasting money and resources on the suggestions of people who believe and are proposing some form of Wooooo. Which is sort of what was going on here.
 

Comfortably Numb

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That's a fake. (Or possibly chinese lanterns- but I'm more inclined to fakery).
Any evidence for either?

This is a video of a triangular/pyramid shaped object, allegedly filmed over Amsterdam and which looks remarkably similar to the recently declassified US Navy film of a pyramid-shaped, airborne artefact.

It was uploaded a couple of years ago, so can't have been influenced by the Navy footage.

If the latter hadn't come from official sources, would you not instantly have denounced it as faked, also?

 

charliebrown

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Fox News had a program called TMZ investigates UFOs this past Tuesday.

Luis Elizondo claims he he could not talk to then Secretary of Defense, James Mathis in 2017, as elements in the Pentagon were out to discredit his character.

Elizondo claims as he continues to speak out about UFOs, he has been personally threatened and claims the government has exotic materials.

Elizondo claims there are unseen, unfriendly forces in the Pentagon.
 

Comfortably Numb

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Elizondo claims as he continues to speak out about UFOs, he has been personally threatened and claims the government has exotic materials.
He doesn't appear to make any similar claims in a lengty interview with the Washington Post on 8 June, 2021 - there's a transcript here:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...threat-identification-program/?outputType=amp

Ultimately, the report confirms no concealed evidence concerning knowledge of ET visitations.

Has there been any media reaction in this regard to such as Bob Lazar's claims of working on actual 'flying saucers', in possession of the U.S. government?

Or, is that entire scenario too incredulous for inclusion in what seems to have been treated as a 'serious', so to speak, topic by the mainstream media.

I have previously noted that the report seemed to be fundamentally all-sweeping and takes with it in one clearout, any suggestions of a historical cover-up.

Essentially, yes there are some more recent enigmas regarding airborne observations, however, that's all there is to it.

Is this Fox program you refer to available online - it would obviously be important to look into this further and hopefully clarify.
 

Coastaljames

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I don't think 'they' need to pretend about ufo disclosure to get 'power and money'

This is the bit I don't get. It seems an odd way to go about it.

But. I remain confident that the only reason a government/intelligence agency would do anything would be-

Power
Money
Political advantage
Strategic advantage



I refuse to believe that they feel compelled to tell a few UFO geeks that UFOs are real.

Why would they?
 

Analogue Boy

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Because UFOs are a very good excuse to cover secret developments and operations.
’Here’s a video of a pyramid UFO’ sounds better than ‘We trained this guy to defend our country and he can’t even work a night vision camera properly’.
 

charliebrown

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I did not know that each July 2nd is World UFO Day being related to the Roswell Crash.

Some hard core ufologist claim it should be June 24th when Kenneth Arnold reported his flying discs.

Roswell, New Mexico will kick off their UFO celebration this coming weekend.
 

Analogue Boy

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I did not know that each July 2nd is World UFO Day being related to the Roswell Crash.

Some hard core ufologist claim it should be June 24th when Kenneth Arnold reported his flying discs.

Roswell, New Mexico will kick off their UFO celebration this coming weekend.
Kenneth Arnold did not report ‘Flying discs’. That was a reporter elaborating on his description of the movement. Arnold described them as crescent shaped.... not unlike a pelican or similar large bird in flight.
 

eburacum

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Any more thoughts on these notes, or has it been debunked?
Eric Davis is one of the leading lights in the UFO enthusiast contingent that includes Puthoff, Bigelow, Elizondo and Delong. He is about as mistaken as any of them. Exactly how mistaken depends very strongly on whether the ET hypothesis is correct in any way.

I don't think it is correct in any way, even though I am very open to the existence of aliens.
 

eburacum

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Concerning Admiral Wilson; he has denied any involvement or interest in UFOs, and Eric Davis has not acknowledged that this is material written by him; so it is either a fake, or both parties are not willing to confirm it.
 

Carl Grove

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Eric Davis is one of the leading lights in the UFO enthusiast contingent that includes Puthoff, Bigelow, Elizondo and Delong. He is about as mistaken as any of them. Exactly how mistaken depends very strongly on whether the ET hypothesis is correct in any way.

I don't think it is correct in any way, even though I am very open to the existence of aliens.
I think that's a bit extreme. If aliens do exist, then if some of them are considerably more clever and more advanced than us the odds are that they would have developed technology enabling them to reach us. Whether they would want to visit a planet like ours is another matter.. given the choice I don't think I would.
 

EnolaGaia

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... If aliens do exist, then if some of them are considerably more clever and more advanced than us the odds are that they would have developed technology enabling them to reach us. ...
I agree about the possibility of aliens more technically advanced than we are, but I dispute the bit about "the odds."

Barring revelation of aspect(s) of physics we have yet to learn, there's no correlation to be reasonably drawn between level of technology and capabilities for overcoming the time, energy and distance problems entailed in interstellar travel.

Being knowledgeable "light years" beyond our understanding doesn't necessarily mean light years are no problem for them.
 

Carl Grove

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I agree about the possibility of aliens more technically advanced than we are, but I dispute the bit about "the odds."

Barring revelation of aspect(s) of physics we have yet to learn, there's no correlation to be reasonably drawn between level of technology and capabilities for overcoming the time, energy and distance problems entailed in interstellar travel.

Being knowledgeable "light years" beyond our understanding doesn't necessarily mean light years are no problem for them.
Well, of course I'm assuming that there is a whole lot of physics that we have yet to learn, and maybe even a lot of physics that will always be beyond our mental capacity, but within the compass of some advanced being with an equivalent IQ of 2000 say. We are always making the unconscious assumption that we know everything there is to know, despite the evidence of our past scientific advances always being superseded.
 

eburacum

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Currently the top speed our physicists can imagine is 'c', the speed of light. In practice it would be impossible for any massive object to reach that speed, and the effects of erosion with the interstellar medium would reduce this top speed even more. People like Harold White and Hal Puthoff might imagine ways round this limit, but they are all vapourware at the moment.
 

Carl Grove

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Currently the top speed our physicists can imagine is 'c', the speed of light. In practice it would be impossible for any massive object to reach that speed, and the effects of erosion with the interstellar medium would reduce this top speed even more. People like Harold White and Hal Puthoff might imagine ways round this limit, but they are all vapourware at the moment.
At the moment, yes.
 

Comfortably Numb

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Some hard core ufologist claim it should be June 24th when Kenneth Arnold reported his flying discs.
Kinda think I might have evidenced enough times, especially quoting Arnold himself, that he never, ever, reported, 'flying discs'.

I know it's tough to accept, especially after all these years of that being a misconstrued foundation of everything related, inherently encompassing claims of a 'flying saucer' cover-up...

Don't you realise though, by continually championing same - indeed, proverbially 'flogging a dead horse' - it can only ever be detrimental?

My contention, as always, is that it's genuinely unnecessary to keep dragging this 'ball and chain' around.
 

Analogue Boy

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1625304386334.jpeg


"I, at first, thought that they were geese because it flew like geese."
 

Carl Grove

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Kinda think I might have evidenced enough times, especially quoting Arnold himself, that he never, ever, reported, 'flying discs'.

I know it's tough to accept, especially after all these years of that being a misconstrued foundation of everything related, inherently encompassing claims of a 'flying saucer' cover-up...

Don't you realise though, by continually championing same - indeed, proverbially 'flogging a dead horse' - it can only ever be detrimental?

My contention, as always, is that it's genuinely unnecessary to keep dragging this 'ball and chain' around.
The image of the disc is firmly embedded of course, but even back in the 50s there were many sightings of non discoid objects. It was interesting that reports of landings almost never spoke of discs, more usually ovoid objects. And was it coincidental that the US and Canada were working on discoid craft at that period, some home grown and some possibly from the treasure trove of acquired Nazi projects?
 

Comfortably Numb

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Any more thoughts on these notes, or has it been debunked?
It's all related to the existence of an 'MJ-12' type cabal, recovered alien spaceships, bodies and reverse-engineering of, 'flying saucers' at Area 51, etc.

On the subject of our Area 51 clandestine, 'scientific research', I was browsing through some archive copies of OMNI magazine recently and came across an interview with Robert Lazar.

He confirms that the, 'flying saucers' he worked on, were indeed identical to those depicted in Billy Meir's photographs.

Lazar also comments on a related aspect I don't recall him mentioning elsewhere.

[Edited to include exact quote]

"There was a poster of the disc I was working on, which I dubbed the Sport Model, on several walls. It read, 'They're Here'."

OMNI, April 1994, page 56

First published here, in a 'World Exclusive' revelation...

This one?

eceb02d880e9f45650d011f9d113f064.jpg
 
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CharmerKamelion

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I love that 'They're Here' poster above. I am gonna get a full-size one and have it on stand-by ready to replace my Fox Mulder-style 'I Want To Believe' poster, hopefully soon!
 
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