U.S. Military: UFO Investigations, Knowledge & Disclosure(s)

[Rappinghood]

As I've said elsewhere, few seem to ever take a step back and consider what it would mean if these were truly extraterrestrial. It would mean a civilization capable of interstellar travel - almost god like technology - was using technology roughly analogous to ours to fly around our atmosphere. That just doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that governments encourage belief in UFOs to explain away black tech, experimental aircraft testing etc.

It's also misinformation pablum to keep the public interest in what's not actually important, especially in this politically charged era.

I find it very hard to believe the US government would happily show their airspace being easily violated by non domestic aircraft.

 

[eburacum]

I look at it from the opposite direction. In a few hundred years we may be capable of building craft that could travel to other stars. These craft would need to use gigantic amounts of power to accelerate each kilogram to a reasonable interstellar speed, but even so they would take decades en route. We are talking about the entire generated energy budget of the Earth to accelerate a craft the size of a Volkswagen to 0.1c.
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high_frontier_redux.html
To conserve enough energy for the deceleration phase, we would need to reduce the mass of the craft on route, so that the travellers would arrive in a tiny capsule with minimal resources to spare.

Far from threatening us with their superior resources, any aliens with foreseeable technology will arrive with practically nothing in reserve, and need our help much more than we need them.

 

[Nosmo King]

I look at it from the opposite direction. In a few hundred years we may be capable of building craft that could travel to other stars. These craft would need to use gigantic amounts of power to accelerate each kilogram to a reasonable interstellar speed, but even so they would take decades en route. We are talking about the entire generated energy budget of the Earth to accelerate a craft the size of a Volkswagen to 0.1c.
To conserve enough energy for the deceleration phase, we would need to reduce the mass of the craft on route, so that the travellers would arrive in a tiny capsule with minimal resources to spare.

Far from threatening us with their superior resources, any aliens with foreseeable technology will arrive with practically nothing in reserve, and need our help much more than we need them.

That is based on our technology and our interpretation of physics

 

[Rappinghood]

I look at it from the opposite direction. In a few hundred years we may be capable of building craft that could travel to other stars. These craft would need to use gigantic amounts of power to accelerate each kilogram to a reasonable interstellar speed, but even so they would take decades en route. We are talking about the entire generated energy budget of the Earth to accelerate a craft the size of a Volkswagen to 0.1c.
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high_frontier_redux.html
To conserve enough energy for the deceleration phase, we would need to reduce the mass of the craft on route, so that the travellers would arrive in a tiny capsule with minimal resources to spare.

Far from threatening us with their superior resources, any aliens with foreseeable technology will arrive with practically nothing in reserve, and need our help much more than we need them.

We can never second guess intelligences that may or may not exist.
As long as we are in the dark, we can look at all options.

Hopefully we'll get an answer in our lifetime.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I look at it from the opposite direction. In a few hundred years we may be capable of building craft that could travel to other stars. These craft would need to use gigantic amounts of power to accelerate each kilogram to a reasonable interstellar speed, but even so they would take decades en route. We are talking about the entire generated energy budget of the Earth to accelerate a craft the size of a Volkswagen to 0.1c.
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high_frontier_redux.html
To conserve enough energy for the deceleration phase, we would need to reduce the mass of the craft on route, so that the travellers would arrive in a tiny capsule with minimal resources to spare.

Far from threatening us with their superior resources, any aliens with foreseeable technology will arrive with practically nothing in reserve, and need our help much more than we need them.

Such an advanced civilisation would not even do this unless they had a comfortable reserve of everything.
They may also have a network of way stations all across the galaxy.

 

[charliebrown]

George Knapp has put out a book called Skinwalkers in the Pentagon in which he claims UFOs were only about 5% of what the Pentagon was looking for.

George claims the Pentagon was looking for other dimensions, shape changing people and animals, people who could distant view, Skinwalker Ranch, etc.

 

[charliebrown]

Captain Robert Salas who was responsible for ten missiles at Malmstrom AFB in March 24, 1967 will tell the Nation Press Club in Washington, D.C. this week that the Pentagon is covering up that these 10 missiles went to shut down.

Captain Salas says these ten missile systems were independent of each other and it is impossible for all ten missiles to shut down at once.

Captain Salas says the Pentagon does not want the public to know the truth.

 

[eburacum]

Salas has been pushing this narrative for a while. It has a complex history.
There definitely was a ten-missile outage in March 1967 - at Echo flight. The outage was investigated and found to be due to electronic 'noise' in the control system.

Salas originally claimed to have been at Echo Flight when this happened, but it was shown later that he was not - he was instead at Oscar Flight, several miles away. He then claimed that a similar outage occured at Oscar Flight a week or so later - but this outage was not recorded in any of the logs. A few people have come forward and said that they remember the second outage, and also the reports of UFOs that accompanied this outage- I should point out that no first hand witness can be found that actually saw the UFOs associated with the Oscar flight outage. Assuming it happened at all, it could easily have been a repeat of the Echo flight fault.

Salas could not possibly have seen anything in the sky since he was required to be at his post underground when on duty.

Everyone remembered the Echo Flight outage, few remember the Oscar flight event.
https://www.scribd.com/document/423...antasy-Anatomy-of-a-UFO-Hoax-by-James-Carlson
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite2_2.pdf

An intriguing series of stories, as complex as Rendlesham in its way, but open to endless debate (like Rendlesham).

 

[BS3]

Salas has been pushing this narrative for a while. It has a complex history.
There definitely was a ten-missile outage in March 1967 - at Echo flight. The outage was investigated and found to be due to electronic 'noise' in the control system.

Salas originally claimed to have been at Echo Flight when this happened, but it was shown later that he was not - he was instead at Oscar Flight, several miles away. He then claimed that a similar outage occured at Oscar Flight a week or so later - but this outage was not recorded in any of the logs. A few people have come forward and said that they remember the second outage, and also the reports of UFOs that accompanied this outage- I should point out that no first hand witness can be found that actually saw the UFOs associated with the Oscar flight outage. Assuming it happened at all, it could easily have been a repeat of the Echo flight fault.

Salas could not possibly have seen anything in the sky since he was required to be at his post underground when on duty.

Everyone remembered the Echo Flight outage, few remember the Oscar flight event.
https://www.scribd.com/document/423...antasy-Anatomy-of-a-UFO-Hoax-by-James-Carlson
http://www.astronomyufo.com/UFO/SUNlite2_2.pdf

An intriguing series of stories, as complex as Rendlesham in its way, but open to endless debate (like Rendlesham).

As noted upthread the main person Salas offered as 'corroboration' was Meiwald, who remembered some kind of UFO incident associated with Oscar flight, but a) couldn't recall when it took place and b) mentioned a security alarm being tripped, not the missiles going 'offline'. In other words his anecdote didn't really confirm Salas' story at all.

 

[charliebrown]

I am a little puzzled why Captain Salas is talking in front of the prestigious National Press Club in Washington, D.C.

I do know people who have written books are invited to talk about their books in front of the press.

 

[BS3]

I suppose Salas has a willing audience for his story again, after ten years, because of the recent US paper on UAPs.

To give him the benefit of the doubt, he may well think he remembers events as written - but the evidence suggests that his memory is conflating several events now from 50 (!) years ago - most of which do not even involve UFOs. Even Meiwald's story, which does, is to my mind reminiscent of the well documented 1968 incident at Minot AFB - specifically an access alarm triggered in the middle of a UFO incident, at a base's "Oscar Flight" too - so you have to wonder if people were not just thinking of stories they had heard of something happening at another base.

Incidentally even if you disagree with its conclusions, the Sign Oral History Group's site on the Minot incident (linked above) is a very good effort in terms of documenting a complex case - interviews of many original witnesses, maps, original documents, Air Force investigations etc. If the Malmstrom incident genuinely happened then a similar exercise should be possible - yet clearly the evidence cannot be found.

 

[charliebrown]

The Sun Online reports that Salas will present a program about Malmstrom and UFOs this Tuesday in front of the National Press Club and also have other servicemen to tell their UFO stories.

Captain Salas claims he wants to counter the Pentagon coverup about UFOs.

Salas also claims that UFOs are not hostile, but E.T. wants humans to take better care of the earth.

This sounds like William Shatner’s many interviews recently on TV.

Shatner keeps saying the atmosphere keeps us alive versus the void and blackness of space which is death.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Salas also claims that UFOs are not hostile, but E.T. wants humans to take better care of the earth.

That could mean either of 2 things:
(a) Maybe they really care about us and only mean the best. Which means they're friendly.
(b) They want us to look after Earth because they want to have it when we're gone. Which means they're not friendly.

As they are probably logical beings with amazing technology, I'd like to think it was (a).

 

[charliebrown]

I vote the E.T.s will take over earth after we destroy ourselves.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I vote the E.T.s will take over earth after we destroy ourselves.

They may have a means of removing the pollution and radioactive fallout.

 

[charliebrown]

If Salas is telling the truth, there was no way ten missiles would shut down at the same time.

Salas claims each missile was its own entity not connected to other missiles.

If this is true I would say what Giorgio Tsoukalos ( big hair ) would say, I am not saying aliens, but it’s aliens !

 

[eburacum]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, ten missiles did shut down at Echo Flight, in a quite separate incident that was thoroughly investigated. The reason they all shut down was due to the primitive centralised electronics used in those days.

 

[charliebrown]

Salas must have confidence to present a program to the Press Club, plus he is bring other military members to try to put the Pentagon in its place.

 

[BS3]

If Salas is telling the truth, there was no way ten missiles would shut down at the same time.

Salas claims each missile was its own entity not connected to other missiles.

If this is true I would say what Giorgio Tsoukalos ( big hair ) would say, I am not saying aliens, but it’s aliens !

I think Salas believes he is telling the truth; this is why he has confidence. Unfortunately I think this is another one of those situations that affects most people from time to time where memory plays a few tricks.

One thing that shows this is the fact he had to change the location from Echo (where the recorded outage happened) to Oscar flight (where he actually served). His memory was initially wrong.

Now Salas obviously has a memory of a "UFO event" involving a couple of security staff. As (I think) capsule crew, he would have been underground, so would have relied on being told about this event by others, or listening to radio traffic. While the commander of the flight, Meiwald, also recalls something similar, he specifically said it involved a perimeter alarm - nothing about the missiles going offline. This is important as any outage would have been thoroughly investigated (as indeed the Echo incident was).

So, maybe there was a UFO incident at Oscar flight, but if so it doesn't seem to have resulted in an offline incident. Salas appears to have, perhaps unconsciously, combined two things he was told about in the same period of his life.

However, there was also a recorded (as in officially investigated and documented) incident at Minot AFB in 1968 where a perimeter alarm at an "Oscar Flight" site was triggered in the middle of a 'UFO' incident and which was investigated by two security staff. Project Sign tracked down a number of the people involved and interviewed them, too. As stories do seem to have got around between bases I have a suspicion, though no concrete evidence, that Meiwald and Salas are possibly recalling something they heard about what happened at Minot.

 

[charliebrown]

Capt. Salas is coming to the National Press Club Tuesday October 19th armed wIth sworn affidavits and declassified documents.

Salas is also bringing:

Capt. Robert Jamison—former nuclear crew commander

Capt. David Schindele—former nuclear targeting officer

Lt. Robert Jacobs—former expert photographer and missile expert for Pentagon

The purpose of the press conference is to call out the Pentagon about UFOs.

 

[eburacum]

The Jacobs testimony should be interesting. Jacobs was involved in the so-called Big Sur case, when a missile launch in 1964 was observed via telescope from Big Sur, and the resulting film seemed to show that it was 'shot down' by a UFO. The film was 'confiscated' so we can't see the evidence.

However there are many reasons to doubt Jacobs' account. First, he couldn't remember the date (he initially reported it as Jan 1965, then changed it to September 1964). Second, these events occurred more than a hundred miles distant from Big Sur, so the images would have been very indistinct and open to misinterpretation. Third, and most important, there are a few frames extant from a launch in 1964 that seem to show similar events to those described by Jacobs, but the various 'unidentified' elements have all been identified.

This is a shot from the telescope film made for the Buzzing Bee Launch on September 22, which shows a range of objects accompanying the missile at t+320 sec. Although this image is a photocopy, it does give some impression of how small and indistinct these events appeared on the film. Each of these objects has been identified: the HIRS PLUME is a cloud of exhaust from the High Impulse Retrorocket system, the decoys and associated packing are devices intended to defeat anti-missile defences, the RV is the dummy re-entry vehicle, and the AZ/EL DISP is the azimuth elevation display within the telescope system.

It seems entirely plausible that the UFO and its 'beam weapons' identified by Jacobs and his boss Mansmann were nothing more than misinterpretation of these various objects and of the various tethers and rocket plumes associated with their deployment. When this deployment occurred the rocket was well over a hundred miles away from the telescope, and was lost to view soon after.

Incidentally Jacobs suggests that this was not the launch in question, but instead the Butterfly Net launch on September 15 was the correct one, but since this occurred in daylight that would make the various distant objects even less distinct and prone to misinterpretation.The Butterfly Net launch was not 'shot down', but made a normal re-entry. It is tricky to make a definitive statement about these events, especially since most of the film is missing; I'm fairly sure that if we had a good copy of the film Mick West and his forum could come up with some good hypotheses, but we don't. If it was as poor quality as the screenshot above, we might still none the wiser.

 

[charliebrown]

So, I am sure a great presentation at the Press Club will be given to the news media but in the end, everyone will say this is interesting and then go their ways and forget what they heard about UFOs.

 

[charliebrown]

The Salas UFO review at the National Press Club this past Tuesday was reported as aging military veterans gave an enthusiastic show.

Aging vets, how do say OUCH !

 

[charliebrown]

American Fox TV News’s Tucker Carlson criticized the American news media for dismissing Salas’s National Press Club presentation on UFOs.

Tucker claims this is a travesty.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Tucker claims this is a travesty.

Takes one to know one ...

 

[charliebrown]

During a visit to the University of Virginia political department, the head of NASA, Bill Nelson, claims that he has talked to a lot of people about UFOs.

Bill said it was his opinion that we could be seeing an inter dimensional phenomenon, but this was pure speculation on his part.

Yes !

A point for my side.

 

[Carl Grove]

During a visit to the University of Virginia political department, the head of NASA, Bill Nelson, claims that he has talked to a lot of people about UFOs.

Bill said it was his opinion that we could be seeing an inter dimensional phenomenon, but this was pure speculation on his part.

Yes !

A point for my side.

Good that someone in his position isn't afraid to speak his mind. I think the interdimensional idea is probably better than the ETH overall but the answer may be something even farther out, as it were.

 

[Analogue Boy]

Always…just…out..of…reach.

 

[charliebrown]

Sir Walter Scott said what tangled webs we weave !

Greeenewald, Jr. from the Black Vault claims that the AATIP program had little to do with UFOs.

The program was run by Bigelow and the government was looking for super weapon development.

The government was also looking for all kinds of paranormal such as distant viewing, ghosts, other dimensions, etc.

Maybe UFOs is not the main objective the Pentagon is looking for and could less about flying saucers ?

 

[Comfortably Numb]

Sir Walter Scott said what tangled webs we weave !

Given that I live not that far from Scott's home, at Abbotsford House...

I have recently posted some early, rare material pertaining to our ufological genesis and irrespective of whatever our personal take on it all, the one thing which I found particularly striking looking back through those early archives, was not only the endeavour to make some sense of it all, it was how little had changed since.

A NICAP newsletter from the 1950s, lamenting the lack of proof and urging a campaign for government disclosure, would still not look out of place now.

You are touching on other aspects which, similarly, I came across - never mind the 'flying saucers', what is the government really up to, secretly!

The following is something associated I kept on file - an advertisement from 1977. It's not concerning my personal thoughts on any related issues, only highlighting how this aspect has precedents way back...

Can we still buy a copy...?



I'll check....