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U.S. Military: UFO Investigations, Knowledge & Disclosure

This past Saturday in an article written for Politico, past deputy assistant secretary for the DoD, Chris Mellon, wants to put the word out that the government has not been honest with the public.

He personally knows of four people who has knowledge of off world material and reverse engineering.

I think this is strong evidence that things are not “ kosher “.

https://www.newsweek.com/ufo-revers...-should-made-public-ex-intel-official-1804300
 
Why is the US gov “normalizing” or changed their tune on reporting and researching UFOs?
Pretty simple really. Advancements in drone technology available to just about any potential enemy.
There’s no need for speculation about off world tech to justify an increased interest in strange stuff flying around in the sky or in/on the water.
 
This is why the public is not sure how to respond to the sincerity of the government.

NASA and the Pentagon claim lacking data to make a firm answer on UFO/UAPs.

Then people like Chris Mellon claims the government has been reverse engineering crashed UFOs for a good while.

Chris implies the government has off world materials.
 
Well, it is not just Chris Mellon who is saying this. David Grusch is saying the same thing.
https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/
A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.
The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time.
Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.
The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office’s representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA’s co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force.
Click to expand...

Grusch was deeply involved in the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, and during his activity in that post he says he discovered documentary evidence about alleged alien materials and a recovery program intended to investigate these materials.

Interesting stuff!

Note, however, he hasn't actually gained access to any of this material so he knows of it only by reputation. Quite probably the material he is talking about (and Mellon is talking about) is just the high-tech junk that Bigelow and Art Bell have collected over the years, and which is much more likely to be of human manufacture than alien.
 
Article in The Guardian, personally I have my doubts, but here we go:

US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

Whistleblower former intelligence official says government posseses ‘intact and partially intact’ craft of non-human origin

The US has been urged to disclose evidence of UFOs after a whistleblower former intelligence official said the government has possession of “intact and partially intact” alien vehicles.

The former intelligence official David Grusch, who led analysis of unexplained anomalous phenomena (UAP) within a US Department of Defense agency, has alleged that the US has craft of non-human origin.

Information on these vehicles is being illegally withheld from Congress, Grusch told the Debrief. Grusch said when he turned over classified information about the vehicles to Congress he suffered retaliation from government officials. He left the government in April after a 14-year career in US intelligence.

Jonathan Grey, a current US intelligence official at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (Nasic), confirmed the existence of “exotic materials” to the Debrief, adding: “We are not alone.”
 
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At last, firm corroboration of UFO's in the hands of the United States government, by an Air Force vet and former intelligence officer, in our NY Post June 7, 2023:

US collects intact UFOs as part of secret program, Air Force veteran claims​

An Air Force veteran and former intelligence official has claimed the US government has been collecting intact extraterrestrial craft for decades as part of a UFO retrieval program it has allegedly been trying to keep secret.

David Charles Grusch, 36, told NewsNation he recently turned over “proof” of the alleged covert program to Congress and the inspector general of the Intelligence Community as part of a whistleblower complaint.

“These are retrieving non-human origin technical vehicles, call it spacecraft if you will, non-human exotic origin vehicles that have either landed or crashed,” Grusch said Monday of the so-called secret program’s alleged activities.

“These are retrieving non-human origin technical vehicles, call it spacecraft if you will, non-human exotic origin vehicles that have either landed or crashed,” Grusch said Monday of the so-called secret program’s alleged activities.

He also wildly suggested that more than just vehicles were found in some cases.

“Well, naturally, when you recover something that’s either landed or crashed, sometimes you encounter dead pilots and, believe it or not, as fantastical as that sounds, it’s true,” he alleged.

“We’re definitely not alone,” Grusch continued. “The data points quite empirically that we’re not alone.”

Grusch — who once worked on the government’s Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) task force — didn’t offer up any evidence to back up his claims, which were first reported on by science site the Debrief earlier Monday.

He did confess that he hadn’t actually seen photos of the alleged extraterrestrial craft, but had spoken at length with intelligence officials who had allegedly come forward to him.

“I thought it was totally nuts and I thought at first I was being deceived, it was a ruse,” Grusch said of the alleged program.

“People started to confide in me. Approach me. I have plenty of senior, former, intelligence officers that came to me, many of which I knew almost my whole career, that confided in me that they were part of a program.”

https://nypost.com/2023/06/06/us-collects-intact-ufo-crafts-in-secret-program-report/
 
You see why discussions of UFOs can drive one crazy.

On one hand NASA and the UFO Office are claiming insufficient data.

On the other hand you have high ranking military people saying the government has off world materials.

I think the truth will come out eventually.
 
I can only repeat that Grusch has never seen this recovered material himself, or even any photos of it; it is all hearsay, told to him by people he thinks he can trust. If these informants could be found, no doubt they would tell a similar tale of second hand information.

To be honest, this isn't really very good evidence at all.
 
On Tuesday, Susan Gough spokeswoman for the Pentagon, fired off an e-mail saying that the Pentagon disagrees with views of David Grusch.

I guess David Grusch stuck the bear and made it mad.
 
One interesting and checkable piece of data Grusch has supplied is concerning an alleged UFO recovery in Italy in 1933. This event is described in some documents from the Second World War, which are of doubtful authenticity, but at least they can be checked.

Here's an article by Roberto Pinotti about this event.
https://www.theblackvault.com/casef...ssolini-fascist-ufo-files-by-roberto-pinotti/

No actual physical remains are available from this event to examine, and the documents may or may not be fakes (indeed they almost certainly are fakes) but at least there is a sort of paper trail here.
 
If he his talking actual fighter pilots then it’s more likely pulling g to the point of greying out that as more to do with it , the brain gets starved of blood and the colour vision is first to go,
 
It took 55 years for the government to admit to the existence of Area 51.

We are going on 75 years with UFO.
 
"David Charles Grusch, 36, told NewsNation he recently turned over “proof” of the alleged covert program to Congress and the inspector general of the Intelligence Community as part of a whistleblower complaint."

Let Congress and the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community make the decisions on all this.
It will be very interesting to see what comes of this.
 
“ Beam me up Scotty ! “

Are you ready to go down the rabbit hole ?

Grusch has been on different media news shows claiming the U.S. is dealing with different humanoid species and there are crash UFOs some with dead humanoid pilots.

Different humanoid species ?

The Pentagon claims Grusch has not shown any evidence and discredits Grusch.
 
charliebrown said:
“ Beam me up Scotty ! “

Are you ready to go down the rabbit hole ?

Grusch has been on different media news shows claiming the U.S. is dealing with different humanoid species and there are crash UFOs some with dead humanoid pilots.

Different humanoid species ?

The Pentagon claims Grusch has not shown any evidence and discredits Grusch.
Click to expand...
This all sounds like a rehash of all the stuff that Tim Good came out with in Above Top Secret back in the late 1980s.
 
Grusch is getting a lot of attention but in the the end he will lose.

He can not present proof that is classified and the Pentagon know this.
 
This is the problem - it's always the same 'I spoke to someone who spoke to someone who claims to know' type of story. Versions of these have been appearing since the 50s, probably.

If this is all, as it were, just under the surface then thousands of people should have known, directly, over the years.
 
This Grusch “ thing “ seems to have different pieces.

In July 2022, The Inspector General for the intelligence community ruled that Grusch’s complaint was good and urgent and the Inspector General informed all intelligence committees to investigate Grusch’s whistleblower complaint.
 
Grusch has been very sparing with details about these so-called revelations. That is not surprising, since he does not claim to have seen any of the recovered alien material himself, nor even seen any photos of the material (as I understand it). He is only repeating hearsay, which might sound very earth-shattering to him, but to anyone trying to get reliable data, it is meagre stuff.

As I mentioned earlier, the only concrete example he has given so far (in public) is the 1933 crash of a UFO in Italy at Magenta, which supposedly supplied Mussolini and his scientists with materials and wreckage. All of this material was lost in WWII, or perhaps collected by US troops and sent to America for study, but Grusch hasn't seen it.

This wreckage supposedly allowed Italy to produce some of the earliest designs for a jet plane, thanks to reverse engineering. Some problems with this particular story is that the Italian jet development program was already under way before 1933, and despite this the Italian jet development program failed to produce a flying aircraft until after Germany flew their own version in 1939. The Italian jet aircraft was underpowered and used an inefficient type of jet which never led to any operational combat aircraft. So as reverse engineering it was a failure.

And of course no trace of the Magenta wreckage can now be found, except some documents which are almost certainly fakes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sightings_in_Italy#1933
 
eburacum said:
Grusch has been very sparing with details about these so-called revelations. That is not surprising, since he does not claim to have seen any of the recovered alien material himself, nor even seen any photos of the material (as I understand it). He is only repeating hearsay, which might sound very earth-shattering to him, but to anyone trying to get reliable data, it is meagre stuff.

As I mentioned earlier, the only concrete example he has given so far (in public) is the 1933 crash of a UFO in Italy at Magenta, which supposedly supplied Mussolini and his scientists with materials and wreckage. All of this material was lost in WWII, or perhaps collected by US troops and sent to America for study, but Grusch hasn't seen it.

This wreckage supposedly allowed Italy to produce some of the earliest designs for a jet plane, thanks to reverse engineering. Some problems with this particular story is that the Italian jet development program was already under way before 1933, and despite this the Italian jet development program failed to produce a flying aircraft until after Germany flew their own version in 1939. The Italian jet aircraft was underpowered and used an inefficient type of jet which never led to any operational combat aircraft. So as reverse engineering it was a failure.

And of course no trace of the Magenta wreckage can now be found, except some documents which are almost certainly fakes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sightings_in_Italy#1933
Click to expand...

I have to say the choice of the Magenta crash was a particularly odd one, given that the story has the familiar whiff of 'Nazi saucer' lunacy about it. You think he'd select a more credible incident from the tens, possibly hundreds of Crash-Retrieval Syndrome tales floating about.
 
The powerful House of Representatives Oversight Committee issued a statement that they have no information on Grusch’s claims, but they are starting to do their preliminary groundwork for a full Committee hearing.

Again the Pentagon responded that there is no truth to Grusch’s claims.
 
Getting old is a terrible thing, you know. Even as late as, say, six years ago I would have done cartwheels down the street upon the news of Grusch's `revelations`. Now I just feel laid-back in a world-weary sort of way about it all.

I am inclined to agree with eburacum. All we essentially have here is a guy, albeit with good credentials, telling us what other people have told him. He is not claiming to have any first hand knowledge of any of it, still less anything that could be called `proof`. it's hearsay from undisclosed sources (the lowest form of journalism). So the core story, when divested of its glittering headlines, is a little underwhelming.

And I can't help but concur with BS3 above in that, the one concrete example he does give - the supposed crash in Magenta in the Italy of the Thirties - is decidedly suspect in its colourful oddness. I for one had not heard this claim before now (had anyone else?). It seems to have popped up out of the blue yonder - even though other outlandish claims about that period in history have been aired and discussed for a long time, even pre-the internet.

Plus, anyway: we've said all this before, but let's say it again. Why would vehicles which can traverse interstellar distances and/or cross dimensions keep on crashing? I would be willing to accept that this may have happened once - but if the `crash retrieval` advocates are to be believed this has happened multiple times!

Then there's this whole idea of `reverse engineering` (basically, taking apart a machine to see how it works so that you can duplicate it). If you gave a petrol driven combustion engine to a steam engine maker from the Nineteenth century then that persom might just have a chance of working out what it is and how to recreate it. But we are told that UAPs are (evidently) interastellar and/or transdimensional forms of transport and that they defy known laws of physics. In short they are way beyond anything we can do or understand. The equivaklent would be like giving a smartphone to someone from the Eighteenth century and waiting for them to reverse engineer it!

There is one thing I will say though. I have seen this Grusch guy interviewed on TV - and I must say, for what it's worth, he does come across to me as a reliable, straightforward and even likkeable kind of person to me. Compare and contrat this with Bob Lazar - a person I have always instinctively distrusted and never believed for a moment.

I'm not holding my breath - but I'll keep my eye on this thread - and I hope you guys can keep on condensing all the salient points on the story, and save me from having to wade thriough all the dross which will be on the internet about it.
 
The earliest reports I can find regarding the Magenta crash date from 2000, when Roberto Pinotti first broke the 'story'. He claims to have received the anonymously-sent case documents in the mid 1990s; as these seem to consist largely of handwritten letters and a series of 'secret' telegrams, neither of which would be particularly difficult to hoax, I've not seen anything very earth-shattering there. The whole setup, with information sent anonymously to a prominent ufologist, reminds me strongly of the MJ-12 documents, which were also a hoax.

Pinotti et al claim to have found other archive documents referring to things like reports of 'unidentified aircraft', but in these cases it seems the records really are just referring to aircraft.

In short it's a really dubious case to lead with and I do wonder why Grusch has chosen it.
 
A website called The Debrief—which says it specializes in “frontier science” and describes itself as self-funded—reported this week that a former intelligence official named David Grusch said that the U.S. government has spent decades secretly recovering “intact vehicles” and “partial fragments” that weren’t made by humans. (A section of The Debrief is dedicated to coverage of UFOs.) Officials, Grusch said, sought to avoid congressional oversight while reverse-engineering these materials for the government’s own purposes. In a separate interview with NewsNation, which has advertised itself as an alternative to major cable networks, Grusch said the military had even discovered the “dead pilots” of these craft. “Believe it or not, as fantastical as that sounds, it’s true,” he said.

Grusch’s account has spread quickly across social media and been repeated by news outlets including The Guardian, Fox News, and New York magazine, as well as plenty of local network affiliates. And why wouldn’t it be? This story has everything: a seemingly authoritative source spilling secrets about a government operation designed to keep the American public in the dark. Oh, and aliens. The only problem is, there’s nothing backing it up.

Ever since UFOs—now also known as UAPs, for “unidentified anomalous phenomena”—first became a cultural sensation, in the technology-fueled postwar era, people have latched onto stories like this one. The cycle has usually moved this way: Someone with military or government experience comes forward with a strange experience or encounter. They have no hard evidence but, given their background, are perceived by some to be a reliable observer anyway. Tabloids amplify the story, fanning public interest and demanding that the government reveal whatever it must be hiding. Officials deny that they’ve found evidence of extraterrestrial activity, which only fuels conspiracy thinking. “This is familiar territory,” Greg Eghigian, a historian at Pennsylvania State University who has studied UFO culture, told me. And it never leads anywhere concrete.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www...e-anthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
 
Predictably a `body language expert` has been quick to offer his wisdom on the paralanguage of Grusch in the above mentioned interview.

I am a little dubious about body language expertise - at least when applied to determine the truth of what someone is saying. It seems to me that there are so many variables involved which can affect one's behavious that it is difficult to be definite abpout anything. Body language is the new polygraph and `truth drug` - ie not at all reliable as it is cracked up to be and I believe body language analysis is not allowable as evidence in courts of law.

But anyway, this is interesting. Grusch shakes his head and otherwise closes his eyes when making key assertions and seems to smirk at various points. (So much for my assertion - in my earlier post - that he comes across to me as pretty straight up!)

Our expert - Dr G - however is quick to point out that nothing can really be determined from this and its all very inconclusive. A lot of people in the comments below (which are more instructive than the main video!) make the observation that the guy is under huge pressure and having to weigh up every word is says and that this is bound to impact on how he comes across.


What do you think?


Also I have heard that the full seven hour (!?) interview with Grusch is due to be released today (not sure on what format) - so that might be something to look forward to, if you have time to kill.
 
Kevin Randle's take on the Grusch claims in which he reminds us of the Roswell Autopsy hype and ultimate admission of a hoax:

"While two reputable journalists have reported on the story and the Grasch has been vetted, the point is that he has offered nothing in the way of corroborative evidence. He has promised it is out there but this is not the time to reveal it. So, I report on what has been said, I note that this is not the first time this has happened, and I wait patiently for the evidence to be presented. Until then, this tale joins all the others we have been fed over the years. Without the corroborative evidence, all we really have is an interesting story told by a man who has offered no evidence and that many of us want to believe."

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2023/06/david-grusch-and-latest-crash-retrieval.html
 
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