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U.S. Sizing Up Iran?

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proberly not the right place?

but what right has bush and co got TO demand that iran, north korea (& possibly others) to give up alledged nuclear weapon program?

(ive possibly asked this before?)
 
Apparently WMD are only allowed to those prepared to fill out a load of forms `before` they are deployed...
 
They don't have to listen\comply, but we have the freedom to ask\demand.

The same reason why you don't want us\dictator\president to have nukes is same reason we don't want them\dictator\president to have nukes...
 
melf said:
but what right has bush and co got TO demand that iran, north korea (& possibly others) to give up alledged nuclear weapon program?
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they have larger weapons than Iran and North Korea, and more of them ... ;)

"peace through superior firepower", I believe the saying goes :?
 
jima said:
"peace through superior firepower", I believe the saying goes :?
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"Let him who desires peace, prepare for war."
Vegetius, Roman military writer.

But then, look what happened to the Romans (possibly the greatest empire ever seen)

- overrun by the 'barbarians' in the end.

The moral of the story is, nothing is forever.
 
...but the question is whether defending it aggressively will lead to a quicker end. If the states involved really do have WMD, then perhaps a policy of detente might be a better idea for all of us.
 
That depends - the approach by the major powers to the whole issue of NBC proliferation (especially nuclear) is not at all consistent. Some states have been 'allowed' to develop nuclear weapons, others are not - it depends on who is considered a threat or an ally. This makes some sort of global approach to non-proliferation somewhat difficult.
 
Posted on Sun, Feb. 13, 2005

U.S. uses drones to detect Iran arms

DAFNA LINZER

The Washington Post

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has been flying surveillance drones over Iran for nearly a year to seek evidence of nuclear weapons programs and detect weaknesses in air defenses, according to three U.S. officials with detailed knowledge of the secret effort.

The small, pilotless planes, penetrating Iranian airspace from U.S. military facilities in Iraq, use radar, video, still photography and air filters designed to pick up traces of nuclear activity to gather information that is not accessible to satellites, the officials said. The aerial espionage is standard in military preparations for an eventual air attack and is also employed as a tool for intimidation.

The Iranian government, using Swiss channels in the absence of diplomatic relations with Washington, formally protested the illegal incursions, according to Iranian, European and U.S. officials, all speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

A U.S. official acknowledged that drones were being used but said the Iranian complaint focused on aircraft overflights by the Pentagon. The United States, the official said, replied with a denial that manned U.S. aircraft had crossed Iran's borders. The drones were first spotted by dozens of Iranians and set off a national newspaper frenzy in late December over whether the country was being visited by UFOs.

The maneuvers have been conducted as the Bush administration sharpens its anti-Iran rhetoric and the U.S. intelligence community searches for information to support President Bush's claim that Tehran is trying to build nuclear weapons.

Bush's senior advisers, including Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, said last week that a U.S. attack on Iran is not imminent but that the option remains available.

The Washington Post reported Saturday that the intelligence community is conducting a broad review of its Iran assessments, including a new look at information about the country's nuclear program, according to administration officials and congressional sources.

In late December, Iranians living along the Caspian Sea and on the Iraq border began reporting sightings of red flashes in the sky, streaks of green and blue and low, racing lights that disappeared moments after being spotted. The Iranian space agency was called in to investigate, astronomy experts were consulted and an agreement was quickly signed with Russian officials eager to learn more about the phenomena.

But the mystery was laid to rest by Iranian air force commanders, some of whom were trained more than 25 years ago in the United States and are familiar with U.S. tactics. They identified the drones early last month, a senior Iranian official said, and Iran's National Security Council decided not to engage the pilotless aircraft.

That action is considered a major policy decision and reflects Iran's belief that an attack is unlikely anytime soon.

The U.S. National Security Agency, which conducts and manages overseas eavesdropping operations, said it had no information to provide on the reconnaissance missions over Iran.

The drones are one of several tools being used to gather information on Iran's nuclear programs and its military capabilities, U.S. officials said. The United States believes Iran is using its nuclear energy program to conceal an effort to manufacture nuclear weapons, but so far no one has found definitive evidence to substantiate that.

Iran is engaged in diplomacy with France, Britain and Germany aimed at ending a 2 1/2 -year crisis over Tehran's nuclear ambitions that began when Iranian defectors exposed a large uranium enrichment facility in August 2002. Inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency have been in and out of the country since then investigating nuclear facilities.

U.S. officials confirmed that the drones were deployed along Iran's northern and western borders, first in April 2004, and again in December and January. A former U.S. official with direct knowledge of earlier phases of the operation said the U.S. intelligence community began using Iraq as a base to spy on Iran shortly after taking Baghdad in early April 2003. Drones have been flown over Iran since then, the former official said, but the missions became more frequent last year.

(Begin Optional Trim)

The spring 2004 flyovers led Iran's military to step up its defenses around nuclear facilities in the southern cities of Isfahan and Bushehr, where locals first reported the UFO sighting. Defenses were added around those sites and others last month, Iranian officials said, after it became clear they were being observed by the drones.

A Dec. 25 article in the Etemaad newspaper, translated from Farsi by the CIA, reported on "the presence of unidentified flying objects in the Bushehr sky on a number of occasions, particularly in recent weeks." After Moscow experts were called in, the Russian daily Pravda reported on "UFO mania" sweeping Iran.

One U.S. intelligence official said different types of drones with varying capabilities have been deployed over Iran. Some fly several hundred feet above the earth, getting a closer view of ground activities than satellites, and are equipped with air filter technology that captures particles and delivers them back to base for analysis. Any presence of plutonium, uranium, or tritium could indicate nuclear work in the area where the samples were collected.

(End Optional trim)

The last drone sightings were in mid-January, around the same time that Iran's National Security Council met in Tehran to discuss them, according to an Iranian official.

"It was clear to our air force that the entire intention here was to get us to turn on our radar," the official said.

That tactic, designed to contribute information to what the military calls an "enemy order of battle," was used by the U.S. military in the Korean and Vietnam wars, against the Soviets, the Chinese and in both Iraq wars.

"By coaxing the Iranians to turn on their radar, we can learn all about their defense systems, including the frequencies they are operating on, the range of their radar and, of course, where their weaknesses lie," said Thomas Keaney, a retired U.S. Air Force colonel and executive director of the Foreign Policy Institute at Johns Hopkins University.

But it did not work. "The United States must have forgotten that they trained half our guys," the Iranian official said. After a briefing by their air force three weeks ago, Iran's national security officials ordered their forces not to turn on the radar or come into contact with the drones in any way.

"Our decision was: Don't engage," the Iranian official said. Leaving the radar off deprives U.S. forces of vital information about the country's air defense system, but it also makes it harder for Iran to tell if an attack is underway.

(Optional Add End)

The Iranian government lodged a formal protest through the Swiss Embassy in Tehran, which passed it on to the State Department, a Bush administration official said. The complaint was then forwarded to the Pentagon and to senior Bush administration officials, the official said.

Asked last Sunday about Iran, Rumsfeld told ABC's "This Week" that he had no knowledge of U.S. military activities in Iran. Rice, who helped plan the Iraq war, said during her European trip last week that an assault on Iran was not on the agenda "at this time."

So far, the drones have added little information to Iran's nuclear file, according to U.S. intelligence officials familiar with the mission.

Estimates vary on when Tehran could build a nuclear weapon using material from its energy program. Iran has agreed to stop enriching uranium, a key ingredient for a bomb, while it is engaged in talks with Europe. Mohamed ElBaradei, the director general of the IAEA, said if Iran resumes that work, it could have enough highly enriched uranium for a bomb within two years and could complete a weapon within three years.

Iranian officials have said repeatedly their country has no intention of building nuclear weapons.
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Source
 
Confusion surrounds Iran blast reports

Greets

Confusion surrounds Iran blast reports

Agencies
Wednesday February 16, 2005

Reports of a large explosion in southern Iran today were initially blamed by Iranian state television on an unidentified aircraft firing a missile near the city of Dailam.

However the Arabic state television channel Al-Alam later reported that the blast may have been caused by a fuel tank dropping from an Iranian aircraft in the region.

"A local source said the explosion could have been the result of the falling of an empty fuel tank from an Iranian plane," Al-Alam said.

The Arabic-language channel had previously cited witnesses who claimed an unknown plane fired on the outskirts of the city in Bushehr province, where Iran has a nuclear power plant. The station reported that a powerful explosion occurred about 12 miles from the city.

Senior Israeli security sources immediately denied that the Israeli military was involved, the Reuters news agency reported. The US state department said it had no information on the report.

The report comes on the same day that Iran said unmanned US spy planes have been flying over the country, searching for evidence of what Washington calls Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Iranian intelligence minister Ali Yunesi said today: "Most of the shining objects that our people see in Iran's airspace are American spying equipment used to spy on Iran's nuclear and military facilities. "

His remarks confirmed a report in The Washington Post on Sunday that quoted unnamed US officials as saying the drones have been flying over Iran for nearly a year to seek evidence of nuclear weapons programs.

The US believes that Iran has been attempting to make nuclear weapons at the facilities, which Iran insists are used only for generating power.

"U.S. spying activities over Iranian airspace have been going since a long time ago," Mr Yunesi said. "These activities won't reveal anything to them. That's to say, it won't give them anything new."

"Our nuclear activities are open and very transparent. Our military activities are all legal," Mr Yunesi said.

The Washington Post reported the drones had been flying over Iran from US military bases in Iraq and were equipped with air filters designed to pick up traces of nuclear activity.

In December, the Iranian air force was ordered to shoot down any unknown flying objects. At the time, there were reports in Iranian newspapers that Iran had discovered spying devices in the pilotless planes that its air defence force had shot down.

"If any of the bright objects come close, they will definitely meet our fire and will be shot down. We possess the necessary equipment to confront them," Mr Yunesi said.

Last month, Mr Yunesi said that the US had been conducting aerial surveillance, but he neither mentioned drones nor nuclear and military sites. Yunesi said U.S. commandoes had not entered Iran, adding the security forces would catch any American "chicks."

Iranian media has been gripped by a kind of "flying object" fever with dozens of reported sightings in recent weeks. State-run media has reported numerous sightings of unknown objects flying over parts of Iran where nuclear facilities are located. The objects were spotted near Natanz - which has a uranium enrichment plant - and Isfahan, which has a facility for producing uranium hexaflouride gas, the feedstock for enriching uranium.

Uranium enriched to low grades is used for fuel in nuclear reactors, but further enrichment makes it suitable for atomic bombs.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1415881,00.html

mal
 
Given the tension something like that could set off a very nasty chain of events!!
 
rynner said:
jima said:
"peace through superior firepower", I believe the saying goes :?
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"Let him who desires peace, prepare for war."
Vegetius, Roman military writer.
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'The sinews of War are infinite money'

'What use is an army abroad if there isn't wise counsel at home'

Marcus Tullius Cicero (106BCE to 43BCE)
 
"We have made a desert and called it peace."

Tacitus again.


Except it was already a desert.
 
boynamedsue said:
"We have made a desert and called it peace."

Tacitus again.


Except it was already a desert.
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WAR! - Huuuh - What is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

Edwin Starr (1942 CE to 2003 CE)
 
Havent UFOs always been interested in Nuclear and/or military establishments?
 
Oh dear oh dear:

Iran, Syria to Form 'United Front'

Wed Feb 16, 5:21 PM ET


TEHRAN, Iran - Iran and Syria, who both are facing pressure from the United States, said Wednesday they will form a "united front" to confront possible threats against them, state-run television reported.

"In view of the special conditions faced by Syria, Iran will transfer its experience, especially concerning sanctions, to Syria," Mohammad Reza Aref, Iran's first vice president, was quoted as saying after meeting Syrian Prime Minister Mohammad Naji Otari.

"At this sensitive point, the two countries require a united front due to numerous challenges."

Otari concurred, saying, "The challenges we face in Syria and Iran require us to be in one front to confront all the challenges imposed (on us) by others."

The report did not specifically mention the challenges, but both countries are under U.S. economic sanctions and the targets of intense American pressure.

Iran, which President Bush (news - web sites) had labeled an "axis of evil" with North Korea (news - web sites) and prewar Iraq (news - web sites), was named an "outpost of tyranny" last month by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites).

The United States has accused Iran of seeking to produce nuclear weapons, while relations with Syria have deteriorated, especially since Monday's assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

Many Lebanese blamed Monday's car bombing in Beirut on Syria, but the Syrian government has denied responsibility. Washington is recalling its ambassador from Syria in apparent response to Hariri's killing.

Washington also accuses Syria of aiding anti-Israeli militants and supporting insurgents in Iraq.

Tehran and Damascus have been strategic allies for years. Syria was the only Arab country that continued its warm relations with Iran during the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war.
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Source
 
Seymour Hersh was recently interviewed on The Daily Show and had more information to offer. Among other things, he talked about his sources at the Pentagon (very nonspecifically), the way in which the Bush administration works, and a possible timetable and strategy for invasion of Iran.

The interview -- or at least some of it -- looks to be available online here. I can't attest for the quality or whether it's complete, though, because I have no speakers at work. :cry:

I can't pass judgment on whether the information is for real or not; I simply found it an interesting interview.
 
America's self-fulfilling foreign policy.

They say Iraq is an Al-Qaeda stronghold, well it wasn't but it is now.

They say Iran and Syria are "an axis of evil", well they're certainly an "axis" now...though who's more evil is open to question.
 
C'mon this is just Syria being flushed out to expose who's side they are on. They have been behind all kinds of terrorist crap in the middle east, lebanon mainly, and are getting in bed with Iran because my enemy's enemy is my friend.

This is just them finally nailing their true clours to the mast.

No doubt someone will be able to come up with a theory as to why it was really the US/Israel that blew up the lebanese ex-primeminister. :roll:


Syria is just another Baathist dictatorship. That doesn't mean we should invade but lets try to remember who is on what side.
 
Sardan said:
C'mon this is just Syria being flushed out to expose who's side they are on. They have been behind all kinds of terrorist crap in the middle east, lebanon mainly, and are getting in bed with Iran because my enemy's enemy is my friend.

This is just them finally nailing their true clours to the mast.

No doubt someone will be able to come up with a theory as to why it was really the US/Israel that blew up the lebanese ex-primeminister. :roll:


Syria is just another Baathist dictatorship. That doesn't mean we should invade but lets try to remember who is on what side.
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Same old, same old. Put another nickel in the jukebox, baby! :rofl:

Considering the events of the last 5 years, isn't that all just a little naive?

Who would really benefit by such an act of destruction, considering how the US's sights have been turned towards Syria and Iran since the 'victory' in Iraq?

Do you really believe that the intelligence services of the US and Israel are incapable of such naughtiness, given what we all ready know of their methods?

Such a professional job too.
 
I just hope the 'good guys' win. I hope I'm on the right 'side.' :roll:
 
Volshebnik said:
I just hope the 'good guys' win. I hope I'm on the right 'side.' :roll:
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There are no 'good guys', just the possibility of weapons of ravening destruction.
 
a coment from a friend who knows much more about this stuff than me.... they are going to attack Syria, cos they are the enemy. They ought to attack Jordan, where terrorists are comming from, but they are thier friends.
 
Perhaps we are going to go for the double and take them both down!!!

Rice Says Syria Is at Least Indirectly Responsible for the Blast

By JOEL BRINKLEY

Published: February 17, 2005

WASHINGTON, Feb. 16 - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice roundly criticized Syria during Senate testimony on Wednesday in extended and animated remarks that struck a chord with several senators, who urged her to find new ways to penalize the Syrian government.

While acknowledging that the United States does not know who was behind the Monday bombing that killed the former Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri, Ms. Rice said Syria should be held at least indirectly responsible, "given their continued interference in Lebanese affairs."

Ms. Rice was testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on the State Department's 2006 budget request, and through most of the testimony her manner was calm and careful. But as one Republican senator after another asked increasingly angry questions about Syria, her responses grew longer, more detailed and more critical.

"We have an increasing list of problems with Syria," she said, detailing many of them. She said Syria was giving aid to guerrillas carrying out attacks against American forces in Iraq and cooperating with others that carry out attacks in Israel, and she noted the continued presence of Syrian forces in Lebanon.

Syria has not responded in detail to attacks from Washington over the last two days, except to say it had no role in the Monday bombing.

But on Wednesday, Syria announced that it would form a common front with Iran to face challenges and threats.

"We are ready to help Syria on all grounds to confront threats," Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref of Iran said in Tehran after meeting Prime Minister Naji al-Otari of Syria.

And the Syrian ambassador, Imad Moustapha, interviewed on CNN, said: "Syria is trying to engage constructively with the United States. We are not enemies of the United States, and we don't want to be drawn into such an enmity." In her testimony, Ms. Rice said that the assassination of Mr. Hariri was "the culmination of a long series with the Syrians, including ineffective and incomplete efforts to deal with the fact that Syrian territory is contributing to the insurgency in Iraq."

The Bush administration announced Tuesday that it was recalling its ambassador to Syria, Margaret Scobey. She left Wednesday. Ms. Rice described the recall as "a very strong signal" and said its length would depend on "how seriously the Syrians take this signal."

Ms. Rice also said that Syria "created a destabilized environment in Lebanon in what is a developing democratic process." And she charged that "terrorists operate in southern Lebanon with Syrian forces in close proximity to them."

Ms. Rice said Syrian efforts in recent months to address American concerns had been disappointing. "We frankly did not get very much help, and the Syrians need to understand that the United States is very serious."

George Allen, Republican of Virginia, was one of several committee members who heartily endorsed Ms. Rice's tough stance.

"I urge you to tighten sanctions on Syria," he said. "We cannot let them off the hook."

Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska, and Barbara Boxer, Democrat of California, also endorsed the criticism of Syria.

Last May the Bush administration imposed economic sanctions on Syria and blocked exports with the exceptions of food and medicine. Administration officials said few possible sanctions remain.

Ms. Rice said she hoped Syria would face broader international pressure so that "then the Syrians will start to worry about their isolation." But Europe has not been quick to endorse the administration's approach toward Syria.

Senator Mel Martinez, the Florida Republican, told Ms. Rice that "the lack of sovereignty of the Lebanese people ought to be something we keep uppermost in our minds."

Senator Allen said he feared that Syria would finance terrorist groups "that would actually take out Abu Mazen or Mahmoud Abbas," the Palestinian prime minister. "This is a terrorist state."

Midway through the hearing on Wednesday morning, the committee paused to vote unanimously to approve the nomination of Ms. Rice's proposed deputy, Robert B. Zoellick. The committee held his confirmation hearing on Tuesday, and he is expected to receive final Senate approval later this week.
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Source
 
Greets

On March 8, 1985, a Lebanese intelligence unit trained and supported by the CIA exploded a car bomb in West Beirut in front of the apartment building where Shiite cleric Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah was living killing 80 and wounding 200. Hundreds more died in Shiite-Palestinian fighting in Beirut camps and in shelling and car-bomb attacks in the spring and summer.
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http://www.nmhschool.org/tthornton/mehistorydatabase/civil_war_in_lebanon.htm

raises the possibility (and nothing more - i'm not claiming any "facts") that the recent car bomb in lebanon may be part of a campaign to get Syria out of lebanon or start some sort of trouble which leads to isreali or US intervention.

on the other hand it might be something totally different.

mal
 
AndroMan said:
Considering the events of the last 5 years, isn't that all just a little naive?

Who would really benefit by such an act of destruction, considering how the US's sights have been turned towards Syria and Iran since the 'victory' in Iraq?

Do you really believe that the intelligence services of the US and Israel are incapable of such naughtiness, given what we all ready know of their methods?

Such a professional job too.
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You say I can say just the same thing, namely:
Same old, same old. Put another nickel in the jukebox, baby! :rofl:

Only I think it should be a dime not a nickel.

Of course I don't believe that the US is incapable of such a thing, I just don't think they did it.

We can all dream up reasons why they might but that is all we are doing, dreaming them up.

It has nothing to do with naivety.
 
"Syria is just another Baathist dictatorship. That doesn't mean we should invade but lets try to remember who is on what side."

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us? Are 'we' against dictatorships and undemocratic regimes per se, or is there a little more self-interest at work?

And are 'we' opposed to supporting terrorists, or just some terrorists?
 
I'm opposed to dictatorships, undemocratic regimes and terrorists per se.

Edit I should point out that this is "I" as in "me". I don't know who "we" are but it seems lots of "us" don't really care about horrid regimes but would rather stick their heads in the sand.
 
"We" are not at war with anyone. The USA and UK governments are at war with "Terror".

"Terror" is any state, organisation or individual who prevents the aims of the US government or its client state Israel from being realised.

Iran has an unpleasant government and Syria has an extremely unpleasant government, but neither of them have been such consistent and succesful supporters of terrorism as the USA. They certainly have not caised anywhere near as many civilian deaths over the past 20 years as the US.

In this particular confrontation both sides have atrocious leaderships, let's hope it doesn't boil over into a situation where civilians are at risk.
 
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