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UAPs Over North America (February 2023)

Some people are just damned irresponsible.
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CharmerKamelion said:
...what about something the size of a car? Or a seemingly unidentified octagonal thing? As far as I know these descriptions haven't been officially verified yet, but the point I'm making is the official line seems to be they didn't know what they were. They may or may not have been balloons. Do we know whether they used the same zig-zag method to bring down all four of the things?
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Apparently they did. From what I'm told, the air-to-air missiles in use today are nearly all continuous-rod weapons, but these are difficult to use against small targets like drones and small balloons (although they are perfect for big balloons).

Drones and unmanned robot craft (such as small balloons) in general are a new threat, and there does not seem to be any efficient way of dealing with them, yet. I should also point out that mylar balloons can be actively used in warfare as radar decoys, both in the atmosphere and in space; so we haven't heard the last of them. Perhaps some of the recent UAP sightings have been tests by various adversaries, designed to test Western responses to a range of targets.
 
I'm still wondering WHAT the non-balloon objects could be. They were floating in the air like a balloon and with no visible means of propulsion. I recall they reported that one of the objects was shot down it was observed to have hit the ground and break into pieces, suggesting it was quite a bit heavier than air and NOT a balloon. But its flight characteristics were like a balloon.

I wonder if what got shot down was just a payload suspended from a balloon by a tether. The balloon could be conceivably much higher up and simply wasn't seen.
 
No, they were just balloons, apparently.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/b...s-were-for-research-not-chinese-surveillance/
In comments aimed at reassuring the American public and setting the stage for future diplomatic engagements with Beijing, President Joe Biden said Feb. 16 the three aerial objects the U.S. recently shot down were not part of China’s spy balloon fleet.
“The intelligence community’s current assessment is that these three ones were most likely balloons tied to private companies, recreation, or research institutions studying weather or conducting other scientific research,” Biden said in his first formal comments on the unprecedented series of air-to-air engagements over the skies of North America and the downing of the Chinese spy balloon off the coast of South Carolina on Feb. 4.
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Which is a fat lot of good if you need to use a balloon for research.

How much do these things cost anyway?
 
I did wonder why these objects were deemed a threat to aircraft when dozens of weather balloons are bobbing about in the skies every day. They didn't even identify what they were before they shot at them.

It's a bit like the mindset in this Victorian cartoon from Punch.
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Erinaceus said:
They didn't even identify what they were before they shot at them.
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Not an easy thing to do, apparently. Even if the person or persons who launched the balloon notified the Federal Aviation Administration, they would only expect the balloon to rise into the stratosphere and burst; most do this quite quickly. But if the balloon loses enough pressure to avoid bursting, the balloon can float for days.

Apparently the trick to launching a long-lasting balloon is to only fill it until it just reaches positive buoyancy, then it will never get too high and won't burst. Or, if you have a toy balloon filled at the greeting-card shop, keep it indoors for a day or so until it is barely flying, then let it go.
 
Biden putting the fault on private industry for the last three UFOs make me wonder what is the real truth behind all this misdirection.

It really is misdirection !
 
M/Hanger said:
Apparently one the Balloons the USAF shot was the ball that Harry Kane blasted over the bar from the penalty spot in the World Cup game against France in December.
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Do you have a source for this? I have not seen anything that states that the UAPs, other than the original Chinese balloon, have been identified yet.

Never mind. I reread your comment and see that you are making a smart aleck remark. I'm not a sports fanatic and so didn't really get the reference.

Come on guys. Some of these remarks are going way over my head.:chuckle:
 
charliebrown said:
This has been a brilliant misdirection by the U.S.

All UFOs now will be rejected as just balloons.

No one will take UFOs seriously anymore.
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The United States government is never going to admit that these UFO's are flying around our skies, MUFON is the organization that collects all the data from around the world. I'm paying attention to them.

https://mufon.com/

45th Anniversary of Frederick Valentich's disappearance.
 
eburacum said:
Apparently the trick to launching a long-lasting balloon is to only fill it until it just reaches positive buoyancy, then it will never get too high and won't burst.
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Here's an example of that type of long-lasting balloon launch; these ham radio enthusiasts use relatively small, partially inflated silver mylar balloons to carry tiny radio transponders into the lower stratosphere - some of these 'picoballoons' have circumnavigated the Earth.

Exactly the sort of balloon that can now be tracked by the 'adjusted' filters on US military radars.
 
It was the Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade behind it all along -

https://aviationweek.com/defense-sp...y-clubs-missing-balloon-feared-shot-down-usaf
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-military-shot-down-amateur-hobbyists-balloon

I tend to think the first one might actually have been exactly what the Chinese said it was, a weather ballon gone astray and not a spy one.
Just a hunch, but I'm inclined to believe it's more cock up than conspiracy.
The one that sounded like a kite (octaganal with strings) was probably a kite, and the rest were the nefarious bunch of ballonists above - wouldn't trust them a bit :p
( and no one mentions what the Southern Illinios lot are up to hmm ?)
 

Inside China’s Military Balloon Program​


Wu Zhe, a veteran aerospace researcher, has played a key role in advancing the Chinese regime in what it describes as the “near space” race, referring to the layer of the atmosphere sitting between 12 and 62 miles above the earth. This region, which is too high for jets but too low for satellites, had been deemed ripe for exploitation in the regime’s bid to achieve military dominance.

Despite having existed for decades, the regime’s military balloon program came into the spotlight recently when the United States shot down a high-altitude surveillance balloon that drifted across the country for a week and hovered above multiple sensitive U.S. military sites.

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has long vied for dominance in near space, which Chinese scientists see as a region for a variety of applications, from high-altitude balloons to hypersonic missiles.

From high above, there’s a wealth of information that an aerostat, equipped with an electronic surveillance system, can intercept and turn into an intelligence asset.

For the Chinese military, there’s high strategic value in aerostats. Compared to airplanes or satellites, balloons are cheaper and easier to maneuver, can carry heavier payloads and cover a wider area, and are harder to detect, two regular columnists wrote in a 2021 article for PLA Daily, the Chinese military’s official newspaper. They consume less energy, allowing them to loiter in a target area for an extended period. And critically, they are often not caught by radars, so they can easily evade an enemy’s air defense system or be classified as UFOs.

Chinese military researchers have also touted the utility of these balloons during combat. Newspaper articles and research papers have pored over balloons’ potential to screen for missiles, planes, and warships in lower space, serve as a medium for wartime communications, drop weapons to attack enemies, conduct electromagnetic interference, and deliver food or military supplies over a long distance.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/silen...wY8LprqwCJoKzC8Cau7wysF+Ifd9Xz1TZupfx0X8bNMQ=

maximus otter
 
As long as you are a competent balloonist and have reliable data about weather conditions, you can manoeuvre balloons to some degree. "Hot Air" balloons that is (and other non-powered aerostats).
Once you get into the powered varieties such as airships, which have moveable aerodynamic surfaces etc, it gets obviously much easier, except for in gusty wind conditions.
 
Kondoru said:
I dont get this.

Balloons are notoriously HARD to manouver.
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I don't get this either.

I read that the 'balloon' went over many highly sensitive military zones. How???

Surely if that was true, it would have been shot down very quickly.
 
Cos wind doesn't blow evenly, equally, always in the same direction. At different heights it can blow in the opposite direction. You also get 'updrafts' and 'downdrafts' over different types of landscape. These things are notorious for passenger planes, causing wind shear, and 'clear air turbulence'.
Having the means to identify when and where these differing movements of the air are, is what allows them to control balloon direction by releasing or adding quantities of gas to make the balloon ascend or descend.
 
Trevp666 said:
Cos wind doesn't blow evenly, equally, always in the same direction. At different heights it can blow in the opposite direction. You also get 'updrafts' and 'downdrafts' over different types of landscape. These things are notorious for passenger planes, causing wind shear, and 'clear air turbulence'.
Having the means to identify when and where these differing movements of the air are, is what allows them to control balloon direction by releasing or adding quantities of gas to make the balloon ascend or descend.
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This was an unmanned weather balloon of a type that goes to a height of usually between 60 000 and 100 000ft to measure various air current speeds and directions, air pressure to produce a type of diagram called a skew T diagram which is essential for weather forecasting.

They usually reach a limit of what the balloon can endure as it expands with height due to the reduced air pressure to a point where the balloon ruptures, falls to earth and the measuring equipment is retrieved as it contains a tracker.

Whether a weather type balloon has the necessary uplift to carry spying equipment is debatable.
 
I still dont get this.

If balloons have;

a) Military relevance
b) Are cheap.

Then surely every military and their dog will be using them?
 
Kondoru said:
I still dont get this.

If balloons have;

a) Military relevance
b) Are cheap.

Then surely every military and their dog will be using them?
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My understanding is that they do. It's when they stray that problems can occur.

Regardless if someone might think they are spy or weather balloons, if they have strayed even in to commercial airspace there is potential for aircraft mishaps if a balloon is in the wrong place. Think of how even birds can cause major mishaps.

This current non news is just that - non news.:roll:
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_1661
Aeroflot Flight 1661 was a passenger flight operated by an Antonov An-24 that crashed during its initial climb, 25 minutes after take-off from Tolmachevo Airport on 1 April 1970. All 45 people on board perished. An investigation revealed that the Antonov collided with a radiosonde (lifted by a balloon), causing a loss of control.
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Bolded segment added by me, for clarity.
 
Kondoru said:
I still dont get this.

If balloons have;

a) Military relevance
b) Are cheap.

Then surely every military and their dog will be using them?
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They are. It’s just that it was kept mostly in the shadows until the last few weeks.
 
The no news part is that China is spying on us all. That they use balloons for it does seem unusual.
 
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