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UFOs: Seen One? Personal UFO Sightings (IHTM; Miscellaneous)

o.k the other end of the county from me. it's just I do remember a lot of stuff from the late 1980s/early 1990s. at the time you're speaking of, round our way at least, it would have had a lot to do with the run-up and actual event of the first gulf war, and heightened activity around the raf bases nearby. i did see something in the skies over the didcot area in the late 1980s, which, even allowing for the raf bases, has always baffled me. oxfordshire is strange, in that not a lot of our stuff gets into standard books on the unexplained, and yet i've heard a lot word-of-mouth in recent years which is very intriguing. not all of it to do with this thread so i'll have to try some of the others.
 
yes military stuff is the obvious explanation. annoying if they fly about distressing members of the public though..... im paying for them to do that
 
Sudi - Do you think your friend may be an abductee? The one he had when he was a kid and the fact that when he sees them no one takes an interest or are asleep are quite common in abductee experiences. They have to be got alone or circumstances are arranged so that they won't be missed by others.:eek:

Jenny Randle discusses the SEP motive as directed by the UFO's themselves. Some people talk of seeing a UFO and being genuinely interested before suddenly deciding to go back to bed and fall straight asleep! Also one guy investigating a bright light landing in a disused quarry said that when he got down there he almost couldn't see anything in the shadows no matter how much he strained his eyes against the bright light coming from inside the Portakabin's windows. For some reason he decided that the quarry was empty and went home. Of course the next morning, puzzled by his own reaction in coming home and sleeping until morning, he returned to the sight and yes, no Portakabin! He just couldn't understand what had made him think it was realistic for a disused quarry to have a lit-up Portakabin installed and was baffled about why he thought it was reasonable to conclude there was nothing suspicious.

I mean, the guy went LOOKING for a ufo rather than just something strange, and even HE couldn't see it! So I don't think its as simple as SEP.:confused:

I don't like to think of anything controlling me like that. In Delores Cannon's Keepers of the Garden the guy in it is hypnotized and is apparently an alien soul born into a human body and is being abducted to get an idea of how the abductee feels during the experience but they're supposed to be buddies.
(It's weird but fascinating if you suspend disbelief) He said something along the lines of 'I know we're supposed to be friends and that they love me but I don't feel right...I don't trust them because I know something that I can't remember...Somethings going to happen and its not going to be good, for us anyway, and I don't like feeling one gives off when he tells me how they can control us just like cattle if we get difficult...' Something very scary like that, anyway. The worst part is that its a very optimistic book while you look at the good of the universe and 'brotherhood' and all that until you get to the patients views from the perspective of a human being on this planet and that its going to be very bad for us indeed but hey ho! we're doing our bit for the cause - whoever's that may be. I enjoyed the book though.;)

Oo! Oo! And another thing that was quite scary was that Cannon asked the guy who was channelling this stuff whether they thought about the impact their visits were having on our planet and they replied 'You do not seem to have understood us. This planet is ours and always has been since it's seeding. It is not for us to worry about what you may think. Our presence here is a fact and you would not be here without us.' :eek!!!!:
 
Chant asks:
Sudi - Do you think your friend may be an abductee? The one he had when he was a kid and the fact that when he sees them no one takes an interest or are asleep are quite common in abductee experiences. They have to be got alone or circumstances are arranged so that they won't be missed by others.
----------------

We used to discuss that possibility. Mostly in a "what if anything was possible ?" mode...because neither of us could venture into a frame of mind that actually allows that type of "abduction" phenomena to be real.

And in itself, even that is strange. We have both experienced things that are not within a normal, everyday reference, and have no explanation for our similar experiences...but we still can't commit to an "abduction" template for the experiences.

There was a friend with my friend when they had the "missing time" in the field in Florida. I asked my friend what the other guy thought about it. My friend said that the other guy was pretty much a recluse who continued to live at home with his parents well into adulthood. And even though my friend kept in touch with his pal for a while after my friend left Florida, he never asked the other guy about what he recalled about that day. He said they just never talked about it.

----Slightly Off Topic....

When I was about 12, I had (still do) a friend named Alice. I dreamed I was getting into the back seat of the family car. (In Real Life--At the the end of the road I grew up on, there was a lot of construction mounds for a new highway--) In the dream, after I got into the car, a BRIGHT light arose from the back of one of the construction dirt mounds. It was so bright I had to look down at the car seat. A voice as clear as any in waking life said: "You know that Alice's Grandmother died." I said "No." The male voice said "Yes. She had a stroke and was paralyzed in her left side before she died."
And I woke up sitting straight up in my bed.

The next day, Alice was not at the school bust stop. Nor the next.
She called me about a week later and said she had been to Suffolk to her Grandmother's funeral. I asked "Was she paralyzed after a stroke and then died?"

She said "Yes."

-------------


I have often wondered why that voice was so clear, and why the bright light?
My friend from Florida has had strange experiences like that throughout his life, too.

But we just can't entertain the reality of alien abductions.

Maybe that's a byproduct of the abduction. ;)

----------------
Jenny Randle discusses the SEP motive as directed by the UFO's themselves. Some people talk of seeing a UFO and being genuinely interested before suddenly deciding to go back to bed and fall straight asleep!
----------------


The night I saw the flying triangle behemoth, I was returning tapes to a video store, and once I got there, I didn't even ask anyone in the parking lot if they saw it. Even though moments before, I had actully gotten out of my car at a busy intersection to go over to another car and ask them what they thought it was. (But there were no other cars at the intersection, though....since then, when I sit at that intersection during a stoplight, I inventory how many cars there are stopped. I have yet to see a stoplight with NO other stopped vehicles other than my own. It could happen, but it is weird that on a busy Friday evening (about 7:30 or so,) that I saw no one else.....


-Sudi
 
I know what you mean about not being even ABLE to entertain the idea of abduction - even the ones who are being treated by psychiatrists just want to be told that its their imagination.

I sometimes wonder whether missing time is only connected to UFO experiences as I talked about an experience I'd had on the 'Ghost' Forum about my son's fifth birthday party at my sister-in-laws. The house had had a lot of 'activity' with many people refusing to be there on there own (or even in a crowd). We'd just finished his birthday tea and everyone was going to the front room to open his presents. I sat next to my husband as everyone began to file in and I said 'Hang on, I'm just off to the loo' and then, everyone in the front room and my mother-in-law standing in the doorway, I went up the stairs to the loo just at the top, went in, dragged my jeans down and this God Almighty banging started on the door, I was startled and then thought someone was playing a prank so I shouted 'Alright, alright!' with other grumbles and then opened the door after flushing to see noone, and the banging had continued until I pulled the lock open so someone SHOULD have been there. I glanced into the three small rooms leading directly off it and came hastily downstairs to be told by my mother-in-law that noone had come down before me, even though I was insistent that someone must have done. The wierd thing is that my little boy was most of the way through his presents and was actually using his new bubble-gun. I was a bit upset as I was his mother and no one had thought to wait for me and it was then that my m-i-l told me that I'd been 'a heck of a long time'. :confused:

It's only looking back that I think how the hell, in a family that is VERY particular about opening each present after reading who it is from and giving the correct thankyou, and the appreciation of each toy before moving on to the next, etc. and then getting the bubble gun out of its packaging of cardboard and wires and pouring the solution out etc did all this happen while I went for one quick wee? I DID say 'what do you mean a long time?' and was again reassured that I'd been a long time and also that she hadn't heard any banging and that she'd not heard me shouting. I also think its wierd that the mother of a young birthday boy wasn't missed during all this when ordinarily they were extremely thoughtful and would have considered it bad behaviour to have not even come to get me had my son been determined to begin without me! I have NO idea how long I was as I didn't see any clocks before or after but I know that I felt very confused about the whole thing - but most particularly about why my husband and family didn't think anything of it - what I was telling them about the hammering on the door and about why they hadn't waited for me. In fact, they were DISinclined to continue discussing it so I had to shutup or else cause a scene by insisting. VERY strange. Another example of SEP, perhaps?

That's the only period of missing time I can be sure about as I didn't think about it seeing as it was connected with a 'ghost' and not a sighting of a UFO. It's only since then that I remember things and think 'Oh, yeah...that WAS wierd actually'.

BUT...I DID see a UFO in February. Both my son, who is now seven, and I saw it together. We came out of our basement flat and crossed the road immediately (very unusual) and noticed how beautiful the moon looked. At that moment three lights in a perfect triangle of red, blue, and a yellow or green one (we can't be sure) slid across the dark sky underneath the moon. I said 'look at that! Do you think its a UFO?' and laughed as we both stared at it move across the sky until it was lost from view. What was wierd was that there were no cars on our road at all. It was six o'clock in the evening of a weekday on the largest of two roads coming into our town. The road is very very long and inclines away from where we were stood so you can see the traffic coming down into the town from a very long way off and there were lights in the distance but no cars coming. My son saw someone on the other side of the road but he didn't appear to have noticed anything despite us stood by the side of the road gazing up into the sky. I would have thought it was a plane as we are under the main flight path from London to Europe on the coast but it was dangerously low and completely silent and going cross-wise to the direction the traffic usually goes. Not only that but it wasn't three lights on a flat object flying flat seen from an acute angle, the lights were in a perfect triangle as if the 'plane' was banking and we could see the lights spaced on its underside. It didn't turn and as I said it was too big and silent to have been a plane. We went to the shop, didn't even mention it to the shopowner (which isn't like me or my son) and went home. But I DID check the clock this time and no, thank God, we'd only been the expected five minutes. PHEW! :D

Sorry for the laboriousness of this post but sometimes you have to go into detail to justify your reasons for thinking things strange when others will find it so easy to pick holes in your story.
 
Well, Chant, I also think that your birthday experience is strange. Especially the banging on the door. The fact that your absence was noted as being "a heck of a long time" without anyone coming to check on you is weird, too. If only to make sure you were OK. Let alone that under a normal circumstances, you'd think someone might at least yell up the stairs to tell you come down while your son started unwrapping his gifts.

--------

So. We've both seen a flying triangle. Mine was silent also. (But all the lights---one in each of the three corners---were red in my sighting.)

---------

Have you ever had sleep paralysis? Or what is referred to as a "night terror?"

---------

Thanks for the fascinating stories. They were not laborious. The details are the most important.

OH! I almost forgot.

The only "missing time" that I can think of right now that I have experienced....is once, I decided I needed a quick "get-away" by myself. (This is not unusual. I enjoy travelling alone and often will take off for a few days by myself....so that part is not out of the ordinary...) Anyway. I live about 2 hours from a beach. It took me four hours to get there. I left home at about 11:30am. I checked in at the hotel about 4:00 pm. I recall making only one wrong turn, which resulted in a detour and a back-tracking that took maybe 30 extra minutes....

:confused:


-Sudi
 
Hmmn...all starting to sound quite scarey now, isn't it?

Yes I have had Sleep Paralysis. I've discussed my views on this on the SP thread (that I've woken up unable to move on many occassions which is the normal body response to REM but this is VERY different to a particular episode when I was 18 when a loud and painful buzzing in my head actually WOKE me and then I realised that I couldn't move and something was there with me that night whilst the other times I've just been drifting out of sleep and have had to summon the energy to BOTHER to move and it has taken some minutes before I can wriggle my finger followed by the rest of me and I won't have anyone telling me that the one I had at 18 was a temporal-lobe epileptic episode;)) Again, I thought of it as ghost-related.

The thing about me is that I'm so scatter-brained that I don't find it strange at all that I'm late or that time has 'flown'. I rarely wear a wrist-watch and only look at clocks if I have an appointment or have to do something for someone else (family or friends) I'm a painter/artist so have only worked infrequently, so I wish I had a timed journey like you had because at least that would be proof of something strange.

Also as this was on my mind when I went to get my little boy and he was talking about his eighth birthday coming up I asked him about the birthday he had at his Auntie's house (the only one) and did he remember? Yes. Did he remember how many presents he had? About ten or eleven? Did he open them very quickly? Yes. Oh, I thought thinking I'd been exaggerating things when he said that it was strange because he'd thought I'd been behind him the whole time he'd been opening them. I asked him why he'd not said 'Mum look at this...' and he said because I thought you were behind me and could see anyway. I asked him if he'd asked his Dad to 'look at this...' and he smiled happily and said 'Yes I did' and his Dad was sat right in front of him. I asked why he'd thought to show his Dad even though his Dad could see and not thought to show me also. He seemed confused but said he'd just assumed I'd already seen. He didn't realise I wasn't in the room until I was by the door with his Grandma. I asked him how long he thought since he saw me go upstairs to the time he saw me by the door...about as long as it takes us to walk home from school? He thought about it and said that plus another five minutes.

It takes us 25-35 minutes to walk home depending on whether we walk smartish or not.

I stopped him there and then on the street, two-thirds the way home after going to the shops for bread and said 'you know I picked you up from school just now, and we went to Somerfield and now we've walked here, how long compared with that was I gone?' And he said as long as since I'd picked him up plus about another ten minutes. This was quite uncannily similar timing (you can never be completely sure of your kids sense of time) He said it was definitely a long time. I said weren't you worried? He said no as he thought I was there. I said didn't anybody else wonder where I was? and he said no. We agreed that this was very strange and changed the subject.

The funny thing is that I did the Abductee questionaire thingey on this Forum and just answered quickly and got a very low score indeed. I figured that if you thought about any of them for too long anyone could dredge up a memory from somewhere so I didn't think very hard about it. Now I'm thinking perhaps I should go back and look at each question carefully and really think before I answer!:eek:

Also my son has seen 'people' in his room in the middle of the night but I thought the first one was my recently deceased Auntie and the second one was the haunter of my sister-in-law's house(he seriously freaked everyone out with that one as he was hysterical with fear - aged four) He's had other frightening nightmares but not about people since then. Insects actually. Oh dear. This is starting to sound quite familiar Sudi. Thank God we can't believe we're abductees!:D :eek:
 
I saw this last year (I've zoomed in a bit bottom-right) when I was at the Glastonbury festival. At the time I thought it strange enough to be picture worthy but with hindsight I think its probably just a balloon - shame

(forgive me if I haven't done the attach file thing properly - no obvious indication on the preview screen)
 
Oh...my gosh...Chant said:

when I was 18 when a loud and painful buzzing in my head actually WOKE me and then I realised that I couldn't move
-------------------

Ok. This will sound like I'm putting you on....BUT.

Also...I was about 16. I was asleep, it was getting to be early morning. I recall hearing a VERY loud buzzing/whining sound. It was extremely uncomfortable. The next thing I knew, I was "floating" in a gray void. In fact, as I type this on the "Reply" screen, the screen color is just about the same value of "gray" color as the gray mist I found myself in. It seemed to have no boundaries and was expansive. I felt more totally alone than I had ever in my life.

The other weird thing I recall, was not being aware of a corporeal body. It was like I was a speck of consciousness. AND...it was very frightening. At first, all I could think was that I wanted my mother...for real....reduced to a very juvenile need for my mother. After The initial fear subsided somewhat, and I realized I thought I was dead, I started to pray. Like I needed a mantra to protect me, since I had nothing else.

I had no concept of time while I was in this dream/strange consciousness...but after some moments (?) I again heard a VERY loud uncomfortable whine...and "awoke" with an excruciation pain in my right side. It was so bad that my mother thought I was having an appendicitis and took my to the doctor. I missed school that day.

The other thing I remember was that as I awoke to that whining buzzing noise, (also very uncomfortable feeling, there really isn't a good way to describe the feeling, like if you knew you were about to fall a great height and that second before you let go of whatever is anchoring you...that sort of precipitous feeling of helplessness, resignation, dread and fear....) But anyway. As I awoke to that noise, it blended with an air conditioner motor that was running. Could the pitch of that motor have instigated an out-of-body experience? If it did, then why the accompanying pain and why had it never happened before. (?) Many nights I had actually relocated to the living room to be in the coolest room to sleep. But that "disembodiment" had only happened that once...and I wasn't directly in the room with the AC, where you would speculate the chances for an experience to be triggered would closer to the initiating sound, not further away.

I should also mention thati was not unfamiliar with out-of-body speculations about that time. But I can't remember whether I had read Raymond Moody's book about OOBs at that point. I do know that I was interested in the Far East as a source of mysticism and religions at a fairly early age...about 12 or 13. For instance, I recall that in 7th grade (age 13,) that I did "The Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda for a book report. So I didn't start researching the possible spiritual or historic roots of mysticism or strange "life-after-death" phenomena only because of the weird experiences.... though I guess one interest could trigger the experiences and then feed each other in a loop.

----------

The other thing you mention, that I find an interesting coincidence, is that I am an artist and a painter (occasionally now, I don't paint as much as I used to....but did study painting in college.) I also have worked sporadically. I don't have children, though. You do mention that your son has bad dreams about insects...so do I.
------------

I do have another question about the flying triangle you saw. Do you want to see another one? Or would you rather just never encounter one again?

-------------
I found the reinvestigation of your missing time at the Birthday Party intriguing. And that your son just assumed you were behind him....(???) You do have to wonder where that idea--a placating idea---came from and why did he so readily accept that you were there all along. (I ran across a story on the 'net somewhere about a garden party where a triangle was spotted. (Maybe the Aliens just like to party? :) ) There were 2 groups that saw it. The man posting the story said that he thought about calling over to the other group on the lawn to say "Hey, Look! What is that?!" but never got the energy or enough impetus to do so. And he mentioned that even though the group he was standing with all did acknowledge the triangle, and discussed it as it flew over, they didn't mention it again the whole night, and nobody talked with the other group to see what they thought.
--------------------
It is interesting that your son still recalls exactly what he thought was your position in the room. When you think about that....a million thoughts a kid might have during the excitement of opening presents...but he does recall the fact he thought you were behind him.....it almost would be more typical if he had just said, now, "Oh, I guess you were somewhere around," instead of an exact position. Like someone told him: "Your mother is behind you." But now I am writing a fantasy speculation...you never know. There are always a million reasonable answers to this sort of stuff, too.
---------------
When I had my (worst) sleep paralysis episode and "saw" a black shadow man come into my bedroom...to kill me I knew... the first thing that popped into my head was, as I "saw" the bedroom door open, was "Dad's coming in to empty my trashcan." It was a placating-type of thought but like someone was telling that was why the door was opening, not like I conjectured that on my own.....a totally harmless activity, Dad emptying the trash. Except that my father never came into my room for anything. My friend who had a similar "shadow" experience about the same time I did, & thought, also as his door opened, "My brother is going to borrow some socks."

All of this makes me sound like a Total Nut of the Most Golden Degree, and maybe I am. But they are facts, and I find them extremely curious. Thanks again for the further information about how your son remembered the party.

Tell him Happy Birthday on his 8th.
-Sudi
 
sudi said:
..."awoke" with an excruciation pain in my right side. It was so bad that my mother thought I was having an appendicitis and took my to the doctor. I missed school that day.
I've woken up with a strange pain in my right side a few times. It felt like a combination of a puncture sensation (not that I've ever been punctured in my right side, but that's the image it brought to my mind) and a sort of tickling, tingly sensation. I also felt very weak like all my energy was being drained through that part of me where I felt the sensation. Each time I've woken up with this pain it gradually faded within minutes.

ibid
You do mention that your son has bad dreams about insects...so do I.
I once heard somebody on a documentary about abductions say that the grey/zeta archytpal figure is representative of an instincual fear of insects on the part of humans inherited from our small, mammalian ancestors who were hunted by some of the larger insects. I have a hard time buying this theory only because I have a fear of insects (insectophobia?) but the image of Greys doesn't seem to bother me. In fact, I find them quite dull to look at.

ibid
...I recall that in 7th grade (age 13,) that I did "The Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda for a book report.
That's quite a book to do a report on when you're only 13! :eek!!!!: :D
 
It does sound John Keelish, doesn't it? That buzzing to tune in to you and then you percieve a change in reality. I was having a thought about the banging on the door. Sometimes the tones described in SP experiences can pulsate, so what if it was a low intermittent buzz that I thought was someone banging on the door and my brain had a wierd SP thing? Perhaps I tuned out for a while and didn't percieve the passage of time?

Now I've seen a UFO I feel very ambivalent about seeing another one. On the one hand it was amazing and I'd love it if a lot of other people witnessed it. On the other I'm frightened by the idea that these events can sometimes be 'staged' and therefore worry that they know I'm here and that makes me feel vulnerable so I sort of hope it was just a plane.

Something else wierd happend when I was eighteen too. I got up fairly early (5.30) to go strawberry picking and we knocked off around 9.00am and drove back to our town. I had arranged to meet three friends that evening and to go strawberrying the next morning also. I felt unaccountably tired as I went up to my bedsitter, closed the door, sat on the end of my bed (right next to the door) and then just flopped back with my legs still over the edge of the bed. The next thing I knew it was 12.30pm. Not of that day but the next! I didn't just slowly come awake with the odd bit of dreaming but kind of 'emerged' from this blackness lying in exactly the same position that I'd fallen asleep in - that's why I thought I'd been asleep for only an hour or so. When I next saw my friends they were frantic and really cross with me only adding to my confusion. Apparrently they'd come round for me at eight o'clock that evening and had buzzed my room but there was no response. As this was out of character they asked my landlady who lived down the road to let them into the house which she did. They hammered and shouted through the door but the landlady said she wouldn't let them into my room no matter how worried they said they were. Early the next morning the people I went strawberry picking with buzzed me repeatedly again and still no response so they went without me. To this day I think they think that I ignored them or that I went somewhere else and didn't have the guts to tell them after the worry I'd caused but I was as genuinely confused as they were.

I've flown to Australia on a 23 hour flight and not slept that long or deeply! I've had a baby and been deprived of sleep for years and still not been like that. In fact I wake up many times during the night every night.

One more thing, sorry for boring anyone, but after I'd seen the triangle of lights - on a couple of later occassions an image jumped into my head like a big cluster of diamonds with thick straight wires radiating from it like a cross. It felt more 'spikey' than that though, and I knew it was a three dimensional spikiness. (As I'm a creative bod I always take notice of images that flash into my head as I use some of them in my artwork designs) My son saw my looking at a hand-drawn cluster of lights that a man described in UFO Magazine and Jack said 'Oh yeah, that's how I thought they would look if they were real until we saw those lights the other night' and I said 'draw what you thought they looked like' as a curiosity and he drew a similar picture to the man's drawing except it had big what he called 'Rods' coming out from the main cluster of lights in a cross-shape. Hmnnn!

Everyone's lives are wierd if you look hard enough at the curiosities in your life. Its unsettling really.:D

I don't think being an abductee is as damaging as KNOWING you are an abductee through hypnosis so if I am then I don't really care to know about it. It doesn't stop me wondering, though.
 
On 19/02/04, r4d4 wrote:

>Hi people, been reading this thread with interest as I
>saw a triangular type ufo in oxfordshire[UK] in
>1991(ish). I feel it is an unusual sighting as its not
>your usual light/blob in the sky affair.

That's precisely what makes this type of report
particularly interesting. There's not so much scope for
misidentification, etc., if the object is only a few
metres overhead!

'Triangular UFOs' are a facet of ufology I have
researched in some detail and written related articles
for 'UFO Magazine' and 'Fortean Times'.

Reports seemed to peak in the 1990s and during 1999 I
summarised:

Perhaps the first step is to look at the overall
perspective and agree what exactly constitutes our core
of data.

We must exclude all reports of triangular/delta/boomerang
shaped aerial objects which are relatively consistent
with aircraft. These could simply be civilian flights,
military exercises, observations of unfamiliar 'stealth'
airplanes, or possibly even unrecognisable 'black
projects'. At least all feasible explanations.

We can also dismiss the high-altitude 'triangle of
lights' reports identified as being almost certainly
triplets of reconnaissance satellites.

Essentially, leave aside anything which comes under the
category of explainable in a standard context and what
remains resilient to rationalisation are the _reported_
observations of an object which:

- is observed at extreme low altitude, frequently
described as 'tree-top' level

- is with rare exceptions completely silent at all
times, a distinctive attribute

- can hover, sometimes reportedly for several minutes.


Additionally, typical properties include

- it can come to a standstill in mid-air; absolutely just
stop

- it can rotate on a central axis

- it's lights are, in several accounts, noted as
intensely brilliant, yet still diffused

- it is frequently reported as having a light at each
apex

- it is also often reported as having a central red light

- it can seem to suddenly just disappear

- it is, alternatively, sometimes reported as able to
'take off' from a standstill and at an 'incredible speed'

- it is almost exclusively encountered at night, usually
the claimed witness(es) being in a car

- 'it', is not always the case, there are claims of more
than one such object and when that occurs, generally 'two
or three', in proximity.
[END]


So, how does that itinerary compare with your account,
namely:

It was around 3am & me & friend were up on his farm. we
saw the oblect and thought it was a just a plane or
something but soon anter it turned on a powerfull
serachlight and appeared 2b searching the nearby woods.
oh its a helicopter we thought and watched with interest
from about 100 yards + away. then things got weird as it
came towards us low in the sky with its lights on and we
could see it was no helicopters. its had red, amber and
green lights in the corners i think and possibly a
central white one. it come right over me only a matter of
metres abover my head. it was close and you know when
your close to a helicopter if u know what i mean! it
hoverded for a bit as if 2 say ,'whats this' and then
nonchanlently few off over the hillsides and out of view
- not a any great speed i might add.
[END]


The following seem to be analogous:

- is observed at extreme low altitude, frequently
described as 'tree-top' level

- can hover, sometimes reportedly for several minutes.

- it can come to a standstill in mid-air; absolutely just
stop

- it is frequently reported as having a light at each
apex

- it is also often reported as having a central red light

- it is almost exclusively encountered at night...
[END]


Although you recall the central light as being white,
it's that combination of lights on each point, with a
central light, which is a prime characteristic.

Whilst not mentioned in the above list, another common
element is a powerful beam or searchlight.

More on that later...


Can I please ask some questions?:

Was there any discernable noise? If not, could any
traffic, etc., possibly have masked any noticeable sound?

What material would you describe the object as being made
of?

Did it reflect any available light?

What approximate height was it flying at and did it ever
change altitude?

How wide and how deep was the object?

Were all three sides of the triangle an equal size?

Were there any noticeable features on the object?

How fast would you describe it as moving?

Did it move in a straight line?

Did you notice any change in the atmosphere when the
object was present?

Did you report your sighting?

Were there any contemporary 'UFO' reports in the local
press?


James Easton.
 
The lights my son and I saw (we both drew what we had seen and compared them later on - the pictures were the same) were almost like Christmas lights. There was no central light in our sighting and the lights were 'spangley' and bright, equally spaced. Also we couldn't see anything 'solid' between them as it was against a dark sky (even though there was a full moon just above it from our perspective) as I suppose the brightness and colour of the lights obscured anything dark between them. There was no traffic noise to drown any sound out - it was silent. Where we saw it it looked like it may have been flying North above the coastline from Dover towards Whitstable. It didn't feel strange although it was arresting enough for us to stop on the pavement and look the opposite way to where we were going on a cold evening and stand there feeling that we had seen something very curious before we slowly continued toward the shop. It didn't seem to be aware of anything at all, just glided past our view as we admired the moon. I didn't report it as I wouldn't know how to do it and wasn't sufficiently startled enough to feel any determination to do so. The full moon that night was about the size of a golf ball held at arms length and the triangle of lights was about twice as big as that. It was in full view the whole time until it disappeared although I can't remember why we admired the moon, turned away, and I looked back again instead of just walking on. It was when I looked back that it was already in view travelling from left to right across the scene. It was very low.

There you go. That's some answers about my particular sighting which doesn't sound very interesting at all compared with yours. I hope you get the information you need. It's such a shame about UFO Mag. I'm a bit shy but I suppose I could contact some people in Dover with this as mysterious lights appeared over Dover last January (2003) so I know about a group there who might have seen something that night. I'll let you know.
 
Bannik mentions:
I've woken up with a strange pain in my right side a few times. It felt like a combination of a puncture sensation ....... and a sort of tickling, tingly sensation. I also felt very weak like all my energy was being drained through that part of me where I felt the sensation. Each time I've woken up with this pain it gradually faded within minutes.
--------------------

That morning, the pain did fade fairly rapidly, as I recall. But while it lasted it was excruciating. I don't recall a tingling or tickly feeling, though. Just a sharp deep pain in my right side. I don't think I associated an energy drain beyond what you would feel after a very scary "dream" and awaking to loud whining noise and then horribly piercing pain.

Now doesn't that sound like a typical restful morning?

-------------------


I once heard somebody on a documentary about abductions say that the grey/zeta archytpal figure is representative of an instincual fear of insects on the part of humans inherited from our small, mammalian ancestors who were hunted by some of the larger insects. I have a hard time buying this theory only because I have a fear of insects (insectophobia?) but the image of Greys doesn't seem to bother me. In fact, I find them quite dull to look at.


I've never been bothered by those illustrations of "greys" either.

----------

I said:
I did "The Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda for a book report.

Bannik said:
That's quite a book to do a report on when you're only 13!

----------
I'm sure I did it like most book reports, skimming it the night before....:D

------
Chant asks:
It does sound John Keelish, doesn't it?

Yes, it does more and more.

But in the movie, "The Mothman Prophecies" there was really only one particular scene I thought echoed anything close to my weird experiences, though. When the guy is recounting the story about going to the deserted factory(?) area and "talking" with Indrid Cole, the shape of the man walking towards the car, that of a shadow wearing a hat with a distinct brim....that remided me of my "shadow" visitor. And that the professor (Alan Bates) tells Richard Gear "They've noticed that you've noticed them," fits in with observations in the paranormal set that if you're looking for weird stuff, you'll certainly find it. Like synchronicities; they're there the second you start looking. Just like last night, I was reading F.T no. 178 (I'm behind because of some school work that keeps me busy,) and in the "Editorial" on page two is mentioned a project that concerns dreams, called "Dragon Project Trust." And then I noticed the facing page's advertisement for "Broken Sword--The Sleeping Dragon." Well, being that it was F.T., I chuckled and wondered if the editors hadn't designed the coincidence....;)
Then a few moments later...there was thunder storm raging...we lost power. I brought out my trusty battery powered reading light and read on, turned to page 11 and the (next "playstation") ad said "Sleep with the lights on!". Maybe a stretch, but slightly entertaining coincidences for me during a thunder storm in the dark.
-----

Chant:
Now I've seen a UFO I feel very ambivalent about seeing another one.

Of course, I really WANT to see another one. Preferably with a certain person who has heard about my sighting now for over ten years and thinks I am more nutster than originally he conjectured.

------The missed strawberry picking outing "sleep" is really unusual! I haven't had similar thing happen....yet. (!)
---------

Scotmedia asks: (and I'm not sure you meant for anybody to jump in...apologies if I'm butting into a directed query...)

Can I please ask some questions?:

Was there any discernable noise? If not, could any
traffic, etc., possibly have masked any noticeable sound?

It was silent. There was no traffic noise, since there were no cars in my lane or the lanes next to mine....I don't recall thinking that I needed it to be quieter in order to hear the thing...there was no noise of particular interest other than my noting that the triangle wasn't making "airplane" or engine noises.


What material would you describe the object as being made
of?

I don't know. the "body" of the triangle seemed to be defined by the lighter sky (but still night sky...) behind it, blocking out what would have been above it...like a shadow itself. It was toatlly black, except for the three red lights, one at each corner.


Did it reflect any available light?

No. And this sighting was near a heavily travelled intersection with a shopping mart across the street. ("K-Mart"... lots of parking lot and well lit. There were three radio towers (or some types of transmission towers,) behind the K-Mart, and that's the direction the triangle flew off in. It sort of banked and flew off over the trees...the lead light dissappearing first. Which is how I could guage it's altitude somewhat.)

What approximate height was it flying at and did it ever
change altitude?

It floated over treetops that were about 60 feet high...and flew off over treetops about the same height.

How wide and how deep was the object?

About 500-600 feet long (two football fields,) and about as wide. HUGE.

Were all three sides of the triangle an equal size?

I would say yes.

Were there any noticeable features on the object?

Just the lights.

How fast would you describe it as moving?

About 30 to 40 mph at first and then it slightly accelerated over the trees...maybe going 60-70 mph (?).

Did it move in a straight line?

No. It banked and turned right. No weird angles, though just a slight banking and acceleration.

Did you notice any change in the atmosphere when the
object was present?

No.

Did you report your sighting?

Not to anyone "official."

Were there any contemporary 'UFO' reports in the local
press?

The next afternoon, the afternoon paper reported many people reporting strange lights on the southside of town, (I saw the triangle on the northern end,) and that their VCRs and TVs were popping on and off.

I still have the paper...it's dated January 24, 1990.
It reads:

Ben **** was driving on *** Road toward *** last night when he saw a pqwerful, blue-green light from above.
"The whole sky lit up. Like it was an electromagnetic pulse," the 27-year-old *** resident said today.

The pulsating, bluish green light was "all over the sky," ** said. The light appeared three times, 10 to 15 seconds apart, and each appearance lasted about a second, he said.
*** was not the only person to see the light.
At least a half-dozen people called *** County communications last night between 9:30 and 10 o'clock and reported similar sightings.

A communications officer said last night that callers described the lights in various colors and intensities.

***, who works at *** in ***, said today two co-workers also saw the lights, and three others reported that the lights in their homes blinked during the same period.

"One guys' VCR popped off, and his lights blinked three times," ** said.

Officials have no explanation for the lights. ** said he has called (the electric company) *** International Airport and area police, but no one seems to know what caused the lights or where they originated.

"It lit up the inside of my car when it happened," ** said.

After the light appeared a third time, ** rolled down his car window but heard no unusual sounds, he said.

Dave ****, Federal Aviation Administration tower manager at the airport, said no unusual activity was noted alst night."

-------------

-Sudi

P.S. I did further research on follow-up reports. The next article mentioning the lights (The reports were the same evening I saw the traiangle, but later,) and the "official" report was a car struck a power pole and the electricity caused the lights and blinking VCRs.
 
Wow Sudi, you are so lucky to have it verified!

I'm feeling more and more fruit-cakey!:D
 
Well, I must be the nuts in the fruitcake, then, since no one mentioned a "triangle" in the"lights" reports...or at least the reporter didn't mention it if anyone did say they saw a "triangle" of lights. It was just the only weird "light" story that popped up at the same time I saw the triangle.

Yesterday, I had to leave so I didn't continue with the other newspaper reports, which I went and found about two years ago (2002), archived at the state library. I copied them.

The next report was dated: Friday January 26, 1990.

(And I forgot to give the headline on the first news account. It read: "Strange Light Reported in ***"-- it was dated Wednesday, January 24, 1990...which meant I saw the triangle Tuesday, January 23rd, 1990 at about 7 or 7:30 p.m.. )

This one is headlined:

"Mystery Light Close Encounter of Utility Lines"

A mysterious light reported seen in southern *** County and the tri-cities area this week most likely was an electrical "ball of fire" caused by a car hitting a utility pole.
The brilliant, pulsating light -- which many described as blue-green -- probably was caused by two utility lines crossing after a car slammed into a pole in downtown ***, a *** Power spokesman said yesterday.
*** ***, operations supervisor for the utilities central division, said the incident caused power outages for about 2,500 ** Power customers beginning Tuesday at 9:36 p.m.-- about the same time residents began reporting the strange lights.
(The operations supervisor) said about 1,400 customers were without power about 45 minutes; others customers had no power for slightly more than an hour.
Seconds after the wreck at *** and *** Streets, many reported they saw a pulsating light that caused the "whole sky to light up," according to one witness.
By most accounts, the light appeared three times, 5 to 15 seconds apart, and each appearance lasted about a second.
*** (The operations supervisor) said a brilliant light, often blue-green, will result when two utility lines cross and cause essentially what is a short circuit. "It will light up the sky," *** said. "It's hard for people to comprehend that it could make that brilliant of a light."
John ****, *** Power division manager of community and government affairs, said a pulsating effect can occur when the wires touch and then swing apart, causing a series of electrical arcs.
"Sometimes when the wires make contact and then break apart, the electical arc drawn between them will cause a light so brilliant that you will swear it lit up the world," he said.
He said the light can appear especially bright during an overcast night, when it is reflected back down to earth.
At least half a dozen people called *** emergency communications about the phenomenon between 9:30 and 10 o;clock. *** emergency communications also received reports of similar sightings, said Hiiary***, a communications dispatcher.
"I'm sure a lot of people would have seen it, Mrs. (Hillary) *** said.


Ben ***, 27, of **, (This is the original Ben in the first newspaper story--Sudi) said he was driving toward ** ** on *** Road in southern *** County when he saw the sky light up.

"I'm satisfied," (Ben) said yesterday when told of the light's probable cause.
(Ben) said "it was comforting" to learn that others also saw the light. "It's hard to believe that could light up the sky like that."
__________

Soooo....maybe there is NO connection between what I saw and what others saw.....Strangely enough, there was a story about a soldier dying in a car wreck in the same town, by hitting a pole, but three days later, after the initial "lights" reports.

It ran: Saturday, January 27, 1990.
It says his car hit a "concrete light post" at 55 miles per hour, killing him and injuring a passenger critically.

This accident is at a different intersection than mentioned in the second (explanation-giving) story. This means, within 4 days, two cars hit poles....I wonder why they didn't see the strange lights both times? Or why don't we see "pulsating" lights like this more frequently?

After all, 2 poles were hit within a weeks time, in a fairly small area. So it must happen in larger cities a lot.

You'd think these "arcs" would be dancing around all the time. Or at least so that they didn't seem unusual enough to report them to the authorities.

Any electrical engineers who might know about "arcing" utility poles wires?

:confused:

Sudi
 
On 8/3/04 sudi wrote:

>Scotmedia asks: (and I'm not sure you meant for anybody
>to jump in...apologies if I'm butting into a directed
>query...)

Your comments are welcome.


>Any electrical engineers who might know about "arcing"
>utility poles wires?

The following seems to be highly relevant:

http://wvlightning.com/bl.html


>Of course, I really WANT to see another one. Preferably
>with a certain person who has heard about my sighting
>now for over ten years and thinks I am more nutster than
>originally he conjectured.

If it helps. I have collected several hundred reports of
'triangular UFOs', although all anecdotal.

During 1999 alone, with permission of the 'National UFO
Reporting Centre', I extracted two hundred plus accounts
of 'triangular/boomerang/delta' UFO reports from their
records.

There have been many sources and I was fortunately able
to interview several claimed witnesses.

One of my favourite accounts, initially spotted as an
obscure newsnet posting mid 1990s, was thus documented
after considerable correspondence with the stated
witness, Julia. This is an agreed summary [although it's
from that period, Julia could not recall the exact date],
using only her verbatim testimony:

I swear this craft just appeared over my head. This was
at about 10:00 a.m. on a bright, sunny day. There was one
of those skyquakes, then in a minute or two after that,
(I was outside) the atmosphere seemed to get 'heavy' like
it was pushing down on me, and it got warm. I have dogs
and they were growling and when I looked up, suddenly
this craft was over my head, fairly close too. I felt it
there before I actually saw it. I did not see it, or hear
it approach except for noticing the change in the
atmosphere, suddenly it was just there, as if becoming
visible for the first time.

It appeared to be gunmetal gray, almost black, but not
quite. I'd say the shape was - triangular, a regular
triangle. It was exactly like the craft - well, no, but
very close to the craft in the second episode of the X-
Files.

I'm not sure how to describe how big this craft was. It
was big, but not giant. It was wider than a helicopter
but not as wide as the stealth fighter wing span, or
maybe it was close to that. And it was very close to me,
so close that I had a hard time keeping my eyes open
because of the pressure it caused in the air. The eerie
part was the silence for a craft hovering so close. It
wasn't far above the roof of our kennel and looked close
enough to almost touch. I'm not a very good judge of
measurements so I can't say for sure how high above me it
actually was, but it seemed rather close, I'd guess about
25 feet.

I was almost directly below it, so I only saw the bottom.
It had lights around the edges of the triangle, but I
couldn't say how many and they didn't appear to be on. I
can say for certain that I saw lights at each one of the
three corners of the craft and at least one on each of
the sides. I did see what appeared to be either a large
light or a window directly in the centre of the triangle.

I can't say if the edges were round or flat as I couldn't
really focus on it for a long time because I couldn't
keep my eyes open. It was sort of like standing under
helicopter blades - you have to shield your eyes. I
didn't hear any engines or whirring or humming, and there
was no real air movement to speak of, just this
pressurized feeling and the warmth.

It was there about a minute, give or take a few seconds,
then it disappeared from view - I did not see the craft
move at all, it just wasn't visible anymore. It
disappeared just as suddenly as it appeared and was gone
again without any visible movement. It was pretty creepy.

I'm not unused to seeing things in the sky. I don't live
that far from Edwards Air Force Base, as the crow flies
and I'm used to seeing the stealth planes, even when they
denied the existence of them. Those looked like giant
bats in the distant sky. This triangular craft was the
same color as the stealth planes, which leads me to
believe they are experimental military planes.
[END]


You say:

>It floated over treetops that were about 60 feet
>high...and flew off over treetops about the same height.

>About 500-600 feet long (two football fields,) and about
>as wide. HUGE

Coincidentally, I have in the past highlighted analogous
reports where a low altitude, hovering,
'triangular/boomerang UFO' is *specifically* described
[on both sides of the Atlantic] as sizable in comparison
to one more "football fields".

That duly noted [for your benefit], can I please enquire
- how did/do you personally reconcile; an unidentified
aerial object which was, astoundingly, "two football
fields" in length, "floated over treetops" in an urban
environment, yet... there were no other reported
witnesses?


James Easton.
 
James Easton asks;
...can I please enquire
- how did/do you personally reconcile; an unidentified
aerial object which was, astoundingly, "two football
fields" in length, "floated over treetops" in an urban
environment, yet... there were no other reported
witnesses?



--------

Thanks for recounting the sighting by your witness, Julia.

Over the years, I have dug infinitely through the 'net looking at other accounts of triangular craft sightings. I even have two friends who have also seen gargatuan triangles fly overhead.

One was with some friends at about 2a.m. and had other witnesses with him. Amazingly, he was the only one to think the triangle was strange. After pointing it out to his other pals, he says they glanced at it and basically shrugged it off. This was after having a few beers at a local bar, but nobody was impaired. He said it was huge, appeared over the tops of residential buildings (about two stories high, maybe 35 feet tall,) and the most strange thing he commented on was that his friends just didn't pay that much attention to it, while he was going "Hey! Hey! Look at that!" I believe he did say he heard a low thrumming noise....I didn't hear any noise.

The other friend was alone when he saw it. He was in the same area, took trash out to an alley garbage can, looked up and saw a huge triangle drifting over the building (---apartment building, also about 35-40 feet tall--) he took note of the strangeness of a huge craft flying so low over a heavily populated urban area, walked out to the street where he could see more open sky, and said it was gone. He had a roommate, but oddly, said he didn't mention it to her when he went inside, just fed the cat.

(I have posted these before and apologize for re-posting, but I know that it's often difficult to re-locate and match up exact posts....so here they are yet again.)

So. To answer your question: "how did/do you personally reconcile an unidentified
aerial object which was, astoundingly, "two football
fields" in length, "floated over treetops" in an urban
environment, yet... there were no other reported
witnesses?"


If I didn't personally know these two other people with similar sightings, both of whom are credible, I would say that I had hallucinated my sighting. (Even though I was stone-cold sober at the time.)

But their experiences do shore up my abilty to accept what I saw in the way I recall. It wasn't until about a year after my sighting that I actually learned that the friend leaving the bar saw a Triangle, and then he mentioned that the third friend, taking the trash out, saw one also. I guess it just came up in conversation somehow, I don't recall what led to our sharing of sightings, though.

When I think back now, even acknowledging that I know I saw it....it seems so utterly weird, that I would start explaining it in terms I could accept....that perhaps it was not a big as I recall....that it was just several helcopters or something like that. I wouldn't be able to reconcile the sighting with any other personal concepts that work in my realm of reality or within my limited knowledge of physics.

The craft was simply too big and too silent and too low-flying to operate in any aerodynamic terms that I, as a layperson, can understand.

The only thing that could work that way would be a dirigible. But why would the Federal Aviation Administration let anything that size fly that low?

I simply have no good conjectures about the lack of other witnesses. I have no idea why I didn't at least ask people in the parking lot of the store I went to, (about a minute after the sighting,) if anyone had seen it....I usually have no problem approaching people and asking the odd question or for directions, etc....I did call my rommate after I got home and told him. I asked him the other day "How did I sound when I called about that triangle?" he said "Matter-of-fact."

He's the one I'd love to have see a triangle like I saw...I must say he's pretty sick of hearing me talk about how astounding it was. You just can't describe how weird the thing is until you find yourself looking up at it.

Thanks again for your time and research,

Sudi
 
James Easton:

So what's your take on all these triangles? Do you think they're Keel/Vallee-ish, or nuts and bolts craft? Do they have any connection to abductions (as abductees usually describe round/elliptical objects and round rooms)? Are there any patterns to these sightings/witnesses? I wasn't particularly interested in triangles as I thought they were mis-identified Stealth craft until last month so I don't know much about them. Was my sighting a 'triangle' or 'lights'?

Anyone?
 
On 10/3/04, Chant wrote:

>So what's your take on all these triangles? Do you think
>they're Keel/Vallee-ish...

I would suggest that Keel's writings are regarded as
absolute fiction.

Although I have good reason to urge such caution, I can't
reveal why as it would be breaching a confidence.


Valee, in my opinion, proposes an overly complex
hypothesis to explain 'UFOs' and associated, diverse,
facets.

Some might conclude that his philosophy requires a
significantly more critical appraisal of the core
evidence.


>Do they have any connection to abductions (as abductees
>usually describe round/elliptical objects and round
>rooms)?

I'm not aware of any tangible evidence which lends
scientific credibility to hypnotised tales of being
abducted by ETs.


>...or nuts and bolts craft?

If they actually are, then we would naturally expect the
answer is, yet to be unveiled, top-secret aircraft.

The paradox is why that's arguably the most illogical
explanation.

As I know from experience, if this topic is discussed
with people who have an interest in, and extensive
knowledge of, military aviation, even those especially
keen on 'black projects' [super-secret developments],
it's generally deemed to be 'UFO stuff' and simply not
welcome.

That's quite understandable; why would any clandestine
aircraft risk exposure by flying at incredibly low
altitude over populated areas, let alone 'hovering'
around an urban environment?


>Are there any patterns to these sightings/witnesses?

As previously highlighted, there are notable
consistencies in both descriptions of 'triangular UFOs'
and particularly their behavioural characteristics.

However, there are also discrepancies and one difficulty
is that so many reports are insufficiently detailed.

Rarely, are they subsequently investigated and witnesses
asked to thoroughly document recalled observations.

On the occasions I have been able to, the results were
intriguing, if not equally puzzling.


>I wasn't particularly interested in triangles as I
>thought they were mis-identified Stealth craft...

No comparison in terms of the inherently reported silent,
slow moving, hovering, 'tree top level altitude', ect,
attributes.


On 10/3/04, sudi also wrote:

>The craft was simply too big and too silent and too low-
>flying to operate in any aerodynamic terms that I, as a
>layperson, can understand.
>
>The only thing that could work that way would be a
>dirigible. But why would the Federal Aviation
>Administration let anything that size fly that low?

Been there, had that discussion with aviation enthusiasts
and all agreed it's comprehensibly untenable.

Besides, many analogous accounts are from the U.K.,
Belgium, Scandinavia and even Japan.

Again, I have to note they are anecdotal, with a scarcity
of accompanying photographic or video evidence [debatably
not unexpected if reports predominately occur late at
night].


>I simply have no good conjectures about the lack of
>other witnesses.

The absence of corroborative witnesses isn't uncommon and
your overall reply is much appreciated.

Steve Johnson is an acquaintance whose artwork has
featured on the covers of novels by foremost science-
fiction authors.

Consider:

http://www.orionworks.com/artgal/svj/gallery_ufos_f.htm

Specifically therein:

'May Your Encounters Be Interesting'

Steve enlightens:

"Artist's interpretation of a black triangular shaped
Unidentified Flying Object witnessed on November 22,
1985, by a Wisconsin state employee. He observed the
object glide slowly, too slow to be flying
aerodynamically, as it crossed Highway CV, located
approximately 15 miles NW of Madison, Wisconsin. The
sighting occurred around 5:00 P.M., dusk. The object was
later estimated to have been about 40 feet across,
perhaps wider, and possibly 90 feet in length. The UFO
silently passed a few feet above a row of power lines
running parallel to the highway. The witness recalled
that the underside of the craft reminded him of "the back
of a refrigerator" ...like a collection of condensation
pipes that ran back and forth from tip to base. After
passing directly above the observer's car, the black
object suddenly accelerated into the evening sky at a
tremendous speed. Within seconds it disappeared. The
observer speculated that if he had been on board the
craft during its abrupt acceleration he would have been
squashed "flatter than a pancake." The object remained
silent during the entire observation.
[END]


"...He observed the object glide slowly, too slow to be
flying aerodynamically... The object remained silent
during the entire observation"...

You noted: "...The craft was simply too big and too
silent and too low-flying to operate in any aerodynamic
terms that I, as a layperson, can understand"...


This painting was actually commissioned by the claimed
witness, who wished to remain anonymous. At my request,
Steve obligingly put me in touch with his client, who
clarified that he held a named, senior position within
the local 'medical health profession', thus resultant
concerns about publicity.


I have several other high-quality witness sketches and
will try to make these available on-line.


James Easton.
 
The link to that illustration is greatly appreciated. It definitely captures the perspective and especially the altitude. I would have to say thet the thing I saw was larger. And nothi8ng on the underside but the three red lights.

I have mentioned before in other posts (you may noy have run across) that I did want to corroborate what I was seeeing with another person at that intersection, but as I (--also just as in that illustration--) stepped out of my car to look at it and glanced around to find another car stopped at the light---there were no other cars in the lanes immediately next to my car. It is a big intersection with three lanes plus a turning lane for each direction. So running across traffic which had the green light would have been hazardous, even if I did see another car stopped across the intersection.

Again, thanks for your time and the link. Any other sketches would also be very interesting. Maybe I should put my useless art degree to work and finally sketch exactly what I saw.

-Sudi
 
James Easton - That titbit about 'breaching a confidence' is very intriguing.

God I'd love to raid your brain. Can I ask a completely unrelated question? Have you ever investigated John Keel?

Also, when I asked if there were any patterns to the sightings or the witnesses I meant to enquire whether anyone had looked into their medical history for depression, anxiety, epilepsy, etc. Or similarities in the weather or terrain; the kind of thing that could help place it in a physical context. As these sightings tend to have SEP effects on other potential witnesses it seems to suggest an effect upon the mind of the witness which is why I thought it so Keel/Vallee.

Ahh...Go on! Tell us what you know! I've been thinking that the Keel/Vallee theories neatly cover everything - it was my Holy Grail of possible Answers. And you expect me to throw it out the window and start again without anything firm to justify it?
 
I read the Mothman Prophecies and Disneyland of the Gods, I couldn't shake the distinct feeling that John Keel is a bit of a..."trickster" himself, much like some of the "non-people" he describes. I know that isn't anything concrete to go by; just a sense I got. I've read some Vallee and I don't get the same vibe from him. O.K. I'll shut up now. ;)
 
Don't you dare shutup Bannik. This has piqued my interest and I think its worth pursuing!

Why did you get the sense of the 'trickster'?

It's only that I'd read many books about the paranormal/UFO/abduction phenomena and a LOT of authors go for selective information when they think they've got an angle - ie. Jenny Randles connecting such sightings with large expanses of water in her book about UFO's and the Pennine mystery when many many sightings do not occur anywhere near large expanses of water. Hopkins and Jacobs discuss abductions but fail to address the more benign 'visitations' such as Adamski (whom Timothy Good regards as one who's experiences shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater as he was given evidence from a subsequent Contactee he trusts that the 'aliens' wanted to deliberately discredit Adamski and gave him twaddle to alienate him from his followers and researchers alike - very Keel/Vallee behaviour!) Due to the fact that researchers do, very often, do this 'Selecting' I thought Keel's approach very inclusive and much more understandable. Even when you look at this very Forum you hear people saying the same things 'It was happening, but noone else saw it and it's impossible to convey the reality of what happened to a sceptic' about Ghosts, poltergeists, Magic, UFO's, abductions, Yeti/Big Foot, the Old Hag, etc, etc. To my own mind it makes perfect sense that there are similarities between how each person felt the experience so bunching them altogether doesn't seem unreasonable.

I used to think that some of the more 'off the wall' things that happened in peoples books discredited their research, as in - Well my God, if Timothy Good thinks that he can mentally call an alien-human to sit next to him and then he actually believes he achieved this within minutes then he'll believe anything! - but reading Keel changed my view on this. What he said was right - if you select the more believable things in your research what value is the result? You have to throw everything in warts and all and if you don't then you're censoring the information before examining it. And if you disbelieve Keel then surely you have to question Timothy Good because some of his odd experiences are not that far removed from some of the bizarre experiences in Keel.
Do we then question any researcher who happens to get involved in the phenomena rather than merely reporting other peoples experiences?

There's one guy, Hough, who DOESN'T get involved in the experiences at all - he's merely the reporter if you like, and HIS conclusions are that all these things, paranormal/UFO/abduction are many-faceted manifestations of SATAN himself!:confused:

I wouldn't dream of saying he's wrong. To me it all comes under the Keel/Vallee theories. And rather than seeming complex, I find the theory incredibly simple and all-encompassing.

So please please! I'm not stubborn. But I'd like to be truly convinced of its being wrong before I throw away such a beautifully simple explanation to cover the many wierd things that seems to happen to me, my family, and many others on this Forum. Ta;)
 
I found reading John Keel's The Mothman Prophesies in conjunction with Robert Anton Wilson's Cosmic Trigger and Philip K. Dick's Valis an interesting experience, bearing in mind Crowley's 'channelling' of The Book of the Law and the various other 'contact experiences' I am familiar with.

I found RAW's by far the sanest : his multi-model approach to looking for possible explanations of the phenomena and refusal to ultimately choose one in which to believe seems much more reasonable to me than assuming it's aliens because the voices say so.
:)
Even ultraterrestrials sound a little too 'nuts and bolts' to me at times.

Oh and I have a similar photograph I took of that 'ufo' balloon at Glastonbury 2003 somewhere ............
 
Keel

Chant - I do not wish to invalidate whatever "Keelish" (I believe I've seen that word used somewhere) experiences you or anyone else have had. Some people I know (some of whom never read anything by, or even heard of, John Keel) have experienced some of the phenonena he describes in MP. Remember, tricksters are so easily believed because they mix lies with truth. I reread the first few chapters of the book a few weeks ago and I still got the same feeling that I was being put on. I realize that's nothing concrete. I wouldn't have even mentioned it if it weren't that the feeling is so nagging. There's just something about Keel that doesn't sit right with me. I want to be wrong. ;) I'm no skeptic. I can't help but feel Keel is exaggerating, though. One thing I'm wondering is why so many occurences were concentrated in single place (Point Pleasant, WV) and a single time (in the late 1960's). Have any other witnesses ever come forward in the past decades besides Keel? Do we have only his word to go on?

Edit: And don't forget something John Keel himself says: "Belief is the enemy." ;)
 
Chant, I had to read your post a few times because it's a lot (not a complaint). Normally, I wouldn't even mention something as immaterial as a gut feeling, except when discussing Keel we are discussing things which themselves are immaterial; intangible - mothmen, flying saucers, MIBs, telepathy, synchronistic events, ect. Given the context of what we are discussing I felt it an appropriate thing to share. You've obviously done a lot more research UFOlogy than I have. I've only been studying it for the past for months or so. In fact, it was largley your posts on the subject that got me interested in the subject and for that I thank you :) (or blame you :mad: ).

All your points in your last post here are taken. Try "Daimonic Reality" by Patrick Harpur. I think you'll love it. In fact, I think it spoiled me a bit. He doesn't really explain "daimonic" events (inluding those associated with UFOlogy). He offers a different way to look at them and think about them that I'm sure many have never considered before. I got the book out of my local library because I heard somebody on this board say they liked both him and Vallee. I went to the library to get something by Vallee because people on this board (especially you) got me interested in him, but I couldn't find any books by him so I got Harpur's book out instead. I don't want to describe it and give it away. Hope you enjoy it if you decide to read it.

lizard23 said:
I found RAW's by far the sanest : his multi-model approach to looking for possible explanations of the phenomena and refusal to ultimately choose one in which to believe seems much more reasonable to me than assuming it's aliens because the voices say so.
Great. Now lizard23 has gotten me interested in RAW. I'll have to keep my eyes out for that one. :D
 
On 12/3/2004 sudi wrote:

>Maybe I should put my useless art degree to work and
>finally sketch exactly what I saw.

If time permits, it would absolutely be of interest and
I'm sure not only to myself.

As highlighted, comparative reports are seldom documented
in detail.

Meantime, I will not make available online any further,
associated, images which might influence your
recollections.


James Easton.
 
James Easton says:

If time permits, it would absolutely be of interest and
I'm sure not only to myself.

As highlighted, comparative reports are seldom documented
in detail.

Meantime, I will not make available online any further,
associated, images which might influence your
recollections.





O.K.

I have some free time this week. I will try to render a sketch of the sighting that (hopefully) conveys the size, altitude and situation it appeared.

I think I have some webspace laying around that I can put the drawing on...if that doesn't work, (my Mac is often recalcitrant on uploading images,) I will figure some other way to get in a public viewing domain.

Thanks for your interest; I will look forward to comparing the other "sightees" impressions with mine.

(Chant...as an artist, you need to get your triangle drawing out here in the open, too...)

-Sudi
 
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