• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

UFOs: Seen One? Personal UFO Sightings (IHTM; Miscellaneous)

On 13/3/04, Chant wrote:

>Can I ask a completely unrelated question? Have you ever
>investigated John Keel?

It's perhaps not practicable to research any such
improbable claims, specifically if they are predominantly
anecdotal.

That said, an acquaintance in the U.S. did have some
involvement with Keel and associates during the 1970s.


>I've been thinking that the Keel/Vallee theories neatly
>cover everything - it was my Holy Grail of possible
>Answers. And you expect me to throw it out the window
>and start again without anything firm to justify it?

As mentioned, I can only statedly suggest due
"caution"... ultimately, unless it can definitively be
proven either way, each of us must obviously decide for
ourselves the merits of any proclaimed evidence.


What exactly is the Keel/Vallee paradigm?

In later discussions you note:

"...Hopkins and Jacobs discuss abductions but fail to
address the more benign 'visitations' such as Adamski
(whom Timothy Good regards as one who's experiences
shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater as he was
given evidence from a subsequent Contactee he trusts that
the 'aliens' wanted to deliberately discredit Adamski and
gave him twaddle to alienate him from his followers and
researchers alike - very Keel/Vallee behaviour!)".

Leaving aside the fact that Adamski is given next to zero
credibility within 'ufology', this illustrates the
central issue; Adamski et al who professed to have been
contacted by aliens from Venus [etc.] and more
profoundly, that they had photographs of 'flying
saucers', overlooked a somewhat fundamental point.

The genesis of 'flying saucers' originates from private
pilot Kenneth Arnold's pivotal 24 June, 1947, observation
of nine unfamiliar aerial objects.

In the ensuing media hysteria these were reported as
'flying saucers'.

Yet, in that formative period, Arnold never described the
objects as remotely circular.

The full story of how and why this extraordinary media
delusion developed is fascinating and insightful.

Meantime, bottom line; as Brad Sparks, a foremost devotee
of 'alien contact', laments:

"I am nevertheless bothered by the fact that no one else
in the 1947 flap ever saw objects shaped like Arnold's,
with only one possible exception (a suspected hoax
apparently)."

If the only correlating evidence in our founding 'saucer
flap' is one probable hoax [the Rhodes photograph], it
surely justifies slightly more alarm for ufology than
merely being 'bothered'.

How do Keel and Vallee address this critical dilemma?


James Easton.
 
Black Triangles - whatever

My first post so pls excuse anything .
In the winter of 1981 we were returning from relatives on a B road that passes the Uffington White Horse, en rout to Swindon, my mother was driving, my sis in the front passesnger seat and my brother and I in the back. My mother spotted an odd formation of lights coming across the downs and stopped the car. My brother and I both got out for a better view ( he was a keen spotter of aircraft although it was dark the craft was against a brilliantly starry sky) .
The plane/whetever passed directly overhead, and it was huge, triangular ( as I say it had a backdrop of stars) with blue-white lights at each point. It passed over very slowly, heading across to the Vale of the White Horse. It was winter and although you could hear the tiny sounds of the countryside at night all around, this thing made no noise, before, during or after it passed us. Exciting? Well, we got in the car with various WTF's and just carried on driving home. Hum, a bit of a let down really, no abductions ( Not that I had any knowledge of such things back then)
I had never heard of these Black Triangle sightings back then, it was only in 1997 I saw an alleged photograph of, I believe, sightings in Belgium that I sat bolt upright and thought. ' We saw that! '

A few thoughts: I am quite willing to believe it was some kind of aircraft, that part of the world, at the time, had many air bases, Greenham Common was still in use, Fairford, Lyneham etc, within fairly close proximity, so I can't see that anything ET would be airily flying around.
From later reading I got the impression that these Triangles were of a later decade than 1981, but I could be wrong.
However: There were multiple ( sober) witnesses, it has remained with us all to this day as something ' unexplained possibly military ' it was solid ( it blacked out the stars) and noiseless and very big. I have been to Air shows, and once saw a Vulcan bomber fly close overhead ( It shook the windows ) I would scale it up to 3 or 4 times larger at the very least.
During the first Gulf War when Stealth aircraft were techincally first used, I was interested as I wondered if we had seen something which was classified ten years prior to that, maybe. Any views from people much more knowlegable in this field than I would be much appreciated.
 
On 19/3/04 Lethe wrote:

"However: There were multiple ( sober) witnesses, it has
remained with us all to this day as something '
unexplained possibly military ' it was solid ( it blacked
out the stars) and noiseless and very big. I have been to
Air shows, and once saw a Vulcan bomber fly close
overhead ( It shook the windows ) I would scale it up to
3 or 4 times larger at the very least".


Lethe,

I documented a comparative account in some detail and it
might be of particular interest. The initial report
read::

The following story is absolutely true and describes my
only "close encounter".

As a Chartered Accountant, I often have to oversee audit
assignments with a strict timetable. This leads to the
need to work long hours. In March 1978, I was working on
such an assignment in my home county of Lincolnshire, UK.
One Thursday night, I finished work at about 10.30pm and
drove a colleague home to the village of Alford.

In general, the coastal areas of Lincolnshire are very
flat. However, Alford lies on the edge of gently rolling
countryside - the Lincolnshire Wolds.

My route home took me up a hill on the A1104 towards
Ulceby Cross. Part way up the hill, at around 11:00 p.m.,
I was dazzled by what I took to be the undipped
headlights of an oncoming car. I flashed my own
headlights and slowed. To my astonishment, the oncoming
lights slowly "took off" from the road and gracefully
flew to my right. Excitedly, I stopped my car, wound down
the driver's side window and peered out. The sight that
greeted me will stay in my memory forever.


I saw that the lights were coming from a massive,
beautiful aircraft which had now turned, was flying at a
height of about 50 feet and was now heading towards the
coast directly over my car! The craft was shaped like a
delta, very similar to the Vulcan bombers based in
Lincolnshire at the time.

However, it was about four times the size of a Vulcan,
flew extremely slowly and was absolutely silent! All
leading edges of the delta were beautifully rounded -
there were no sharp protuberances such as a tailplane.
The underside of the craft was coloured sky blue. It just
glided over me and headed towards the coast - no noise,
no smoke, no vibrations, no smell - just an aircraft of
sheer gargantuan beauty.

It was very real; from the A16 I was able to watch this
craft making its slow, majestic way south towards Boston
until I lost sight of it just past Spilsby. I'd love to
know what it was. It seemed too real to be
extraterrestrial. However, its immense size, its low
speed and above all, the sheer silence made it unlike any
aircraft known to me!

Paul H Hanmer FCA
[END]


Asked if he would answer some questions about this
encounter, Paul was exceptionally helpful and elaborated
further on a number of issues.

However, for brevity, I'll leave them aside.

Paul's story was striking on two specific aspects.

The object didn't exhibit any characteristics which were
distinctly baffling, such as hovering in mid-air.

He also mentioned a couple of points which perhaps
offered clues to an explanation.

Yet, one of those central clues simply didn't equate with
what I suspected to be the answer.

It was only a year or so after I highlighted this case,
that someone came forward with astounding information
which possibly reconciled the overall evidence.


Lethe, before I explain further, can I please ask:

- could you determine any colour on the underside?

- how close was the incident to an airfield where Vulcans
were based?


James Easton.
 
Lethe---your account is very interesting to me---especially the part where you note that you just kept driving home.

Did you and the others discuss the sighting in the car after you saw the triangle?

---------

In an another matter:

I did finally sketch the triangle I saw.

So as not to bore you all with multitudes of explanations and excuses about the artwork itself, I will just say that I wanted to mainly try to show the general setting (the normally busy, large intersection which wasn't busy that evening,) and the heights of the trees, relative to the surroundings and so forth.

Here 'tis:

http://home.earthlink.net/~skurzma934/

James Easton---if you find the time to post some of the sketches in your collection, it would be more than fascinating to me....

--Sudi
 
Scotmedia: That account was fascinating.
I could not determin any colour on the underside, the lights at each corner were a very intense blue-white ( although not too bright for me to look at them,) but they were the only colours I saw and the fact that it was blotting out a sky full of stars, so it was something solid.

I don't know where Vulcans were based then, the one I saw was 10 years earlier when it flew over our school, very ( too ) low. It could have been going to Fairford ( a USAF base then) or Lyneham, where the Hercules transports are based, or even Brize Norton, I would need some-one in the RAF etc to know where Vulcans were based back then.


Sudi- We did talk to each other on the way home, but not much, as were were too..not shocked, we just had no explanation for something that huge which was noiseless and must have been very low. That's what I remember most of all , the clear frosty night and something vast passing overhead without a sound. Sudi, the shape of the illustration tallies with the one we saw except for the colour of the lights.
I can say now that none of us seriously thought ' UFO '. My preconceived image of these had always been of disc shaped craft, so I spent years wondering what sort of incredible new aircraft it was.
 
To me, a blue underside would suggest a very terrestrial plane. Unless the alien world has a blue sky too.
 
Nice picture Sudi. It certainly gets across how big it really was.

Mine pales in comparison!:eek:

James Easton - 'It's perhaps not practicable to research any such improbable claims, specifically if they are predominantly anecdotal'. For shame! ;)

I watched the film 'Mothman Prophecies' and was disappointed (I'm not even a Richard Gere fan) but interested by the 'documentary' after the film. They had witnesses talking for the promotional documentary and if they'd been bribed to keep silent about the veracity of what John Keel wrote of their experiences I don't think he could have paid them enough to keep lying for so long - up to the present day. All of the original witnesses seemed sensible enough except for the fantastic tales they had which were exactly as described by Keel in his book. Unless the film studios bribed them all over again.

Another example of this kind of Keelishness is found at the Ranch in USA covered by UFO Magazine where not only UFO's but 'Portals', dinosaurs, orbs, poltergeist activity, monsters etc. have been recorded all together and this is only very recently. The Ranch having been bought by a research unit who is puzzled by the variety of phenomena found in one area.

The Keel/Vallee paradigm, in my view, is the idea/model that there is another 'Other' intelligence that knows our thoughts, either individually or collectively, and which anticipates our fears, beliefs, or hopes and creates material/apparently material objects in order to stimulate our fears/belief and that putting ALL wierd phenomena into individual categories may not be helpful. Instead there is the 'Objective/tangible' against 'subjective/intangible' and that everything falling into the latter category could be studied as ONE phenomenon.

Other round or saucer-shaped objects have been seen before the 1947 sighting and have been painted and recorded - one incident in China referred to the 'saucer' as an 'earthenware vessel' which sounds strikingly like something bowl/saucer shaped. Giving people a 'name' to their experience doesn't mean that subsequent descriptions using this name are invalidated merely that it suggests some attempt on the part of the witness to attribute something completely unknown to something 'Known' which is understandable isn't it? I read many accounts of airships in 'Great Mystery' books that didn't connect them with UFO's at all. What I find most interesting is the fact that Keel highlighted the fact that this phenomenon actually anticipates new designs in aircraft suggesting an 'Other' intelligence. What I read in Mothman prophecies didn't reveal anything more wierd or interesting that other reports I've read elsewhere where they were not attributed to anything other than the curiously mysterious (and left at that).

I must admit that I do like Timothy Good and I believe his research is solidly logical and working from known facts. Adamski made quite a few claims before he went nuts and the first sighting or perhaps two sightings were real, according to his contacts. The UFO was seen at the site he was waiting at by three witnesses (albeit from afar) and seen to remain for about an hour before leaving. There was no corroborating evidence for his other 'trips' and visits. Nevertheless, some of the information that Adamski gave predates the Apollo missions and Timothy Good makes a good case for Adamski's descriptions echoing later descriptions made by the first Astronauts. Although it is 'accepted wisdom' that he was a crackpot Good does point out that there is SOME evidence that he gained information he couldn't possibly have known unless he's seen it with his own eyes (in outer space). Also Jenny Randles has a curious example of another man named Adamski who seemed to have 'vanished' for five days reappearing dead in the Pennines in inexplicable circumstances around the same time (I think). All sorts of strange things seem to be happening but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I'm NOT a fundamentalist Believer of all these things. Honest. What it means for me is that all of the strange things I've read about disjointedly over the years seem to make sense within this context. However I'm totally ignorant of Harpur and RAW so I'll try and get hold of these books asap! I hope its not too scary though.
 
On 20/3/04 sudi wrote:

>I did finally sketch the triangle I saw.
>
>...I will just say that I wanted to mainly try to show
>the general setting (the normally busy, large
>intersection which wasn't busy that evening,) and the
>heights of the trees, relative to the surroundings and
>so forth.

It's much appreciated - and I'm sure by others - having
an opportunity to envisage your overall perspective.

>if you find the time to post some of the sketches in
>your collection, it would be more than fascinating to
>me....

Uploaded to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/files/

Triangle - Petit-Rechain

The Petit-Rechain photograph was reportedly taken during
April 1990, by a young Belgian who did not seek any
publicity or financial gain. It was examined at the Royal
Military School, Brussels and was not considered to be a
hoax. Personally, I have my doubts - an anonymous source
is always troubling.


Triangle - Petit-Rechain (Enhanced)

Interestingly, a computer enhancement seemingly indicates
the object is delta-shaped.


Triangle - Belgium No. 1
Triangle - Belgium No. 2
Triangle - Belgium No. 3
Triangle - Belgium No. 4
Triangle - Belgium No. 5
Triangle - Belgium No. 6

Comparative sketches from that contemporary Belgian
'flap'.


I documented, detailed, accounts of the following
reported images/sightings:

Triangle - Richmond Hill, Ontario, 26 Dec, 1987
Triangle - Huachuca mountains, Arizona
Triangle - Seattle, 1993

The first was a much smaller triangle, as described by a
stated "amateur astronomer", Jackie:

"Astronomy is my favourite hobby, and I was just learning
the position of the planets and constellations at the
time. I was in the backyard stargazing when I decided I
would go to the front of the house to see the planet
Jupiter. The sky was fairly clear and the weather brisk.
At this time some clouds had started to move in, but they
were very sparse and you could still see the night sky.
In the distance, just past our neighbour's house, I
noticed a brown object flying towards me. It appeared to
be boomerang shaped.

At first I thought it must be a bat - but there couldn't
possibly be bats this size! Then I thought it was a kite
- but realized no one would be flying a kite in the
middle of winter at 1:00 in the morning.

This is where my memory gets fuzzy. As the object drew
closer I could see that it was triangular in shape. The
object was moving very slowly, approximately 5-10 miles
pr. hr. The colour was definitely brown, with darker
circles inside. There was no sound, (almost too quiet to
be real) and no lights of any kind. The object was
slightly higher than the telephone poles and just barely
cleared the roof of our house. I would say it was
approximately 20 feet in length and 5 feet high. I know
that when I saw it my first thought was that it was too
small for someone to be inside".
[END]

One conceivable parallel:

http://www.ufo.se/english/articles/brandstorp.html


The Huachuca mountains depiction is of personal
significance as the witness, Theresa Carlson, is someone
I know. Theresa is an exceptional, incredulous,
researcher (and accomplished graphics artist).


James Easton.
 
On 20/3/04, I wrote:

>It was only a year or so after I highlighted this case,
>that someone came forward with astounding information
>which possibly reconciled the overall evidence.

Although the most likely identification was a Vulcan bomber -
its profile matched and they were stationed nearby - obviously
the last thing they could be described as is silent!

However, John Burtenshaw is an acquaintance and experienced
military aviation enthusiast.

John explained the surprising and little known revelation from a
chance meeting with a Squadron Leader (Rtd.), who flew Vulcans
for most of his RAF career:

"A favourite trick of the Vulcan pilots was to reduce power and
use its massive wing area to glide for some miles before applying
power again, to conserve fuel. It was not officially sanctioned
and was never put on record as the public might have kicked up a
fuss (would you want a several tons of bomber gliding over your
town!!)".


Another corroborative factor is that Vulcans did employ a
grey/light-blue camouflage which was sometimes, although not
always, 'plain' underneath - see, for example the photograph
archive at:

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mongsoft/vulcan_welcome_page_all.ht
m

[this URL will 'wrap around']


Although Paul believed the size was much larger than a Vulcan,
it's notoriously difficult to gauge perspective, especially
against the sky as a backdrop and at night.

If Paul was duly mistaken, that's understandable under the
circumstances outlined.

I don't know as I wasn't there, however, those alleged 'silent
Vulcans' are perhaps worth keeping in mind.


James Easton.
 
Chant said:
Nice picture Sudi. It certainly gets across how big it really was.

Mine pales in comparison!


-------
Thanks. Please, if you get the time, post your interpretation.
-------

And the links to the various illustrations, Scotmedia, are very much appreciated.

We're covering a lot of ground (or air,) but the main differences I am noting in sightings are:

1) Sizes vary from very small to mammoth. This is really obvious, but also empahasizes that the size differences mean that IF these are secret prototypes of a new aerodynamic models...somebody is putting a lot of money into dithering around with a lot of formats.

2) Some triangles seem flat with no depth: two-dimensional. Others have a definite "wall" that bring them a three dimensional, more "terrestrial" "look".

I'd bet all the triangles have a "cabin" that allows it to be piloted, and that they aren't unmanned drones of some sort. Speaking of drones, IF these triangles are military craft....why haven't they been seen in the current conflicts or any other "hot" areas in the past several decades? What would they be used for that current aircraft can't be used for?

3) No sound confounds the witnesses because we are trained through experience to "match" things moving through air with either engine noise or air displacement.

I guess, I should speak from my own experience, it's just that after you are seeing something your logic tells you cannot be suspended in air, you switch to another sense to "match" it to familiar scenarios...so you really remember that it has no sound attached to its flight...because that's a part of the logical sensory verification that doesn't reinforce the aircraft's "normalcy." In my case...by the time I went through my spontaneous "checklist" of what I thought I should see or hear with a plane...it was moving away at greater speed...but still no sound.

Which brings me to the "coasting" Vulcans. If they were going to accelerate before your eyes, wouldn't they then make a terrific noise?

--------

That said. I was at the same intersection tonight. Some things I realized that have to be taken into account:

.....There was a bank on the northeast corner that I didn't even recall when I was drawing the "scene" the other day. There is another restaurant further east on the east-west portion of the highway. (I chose not to draw it in, since it didn't have anything to do with showing the scale...and it made my already cluttered sketch even harder to decipher...but I remembered the restaurant as being sited almost in a small gulley or ravine, when actually, it is at road level.) And the transmission towers, although I did get the height(s) pretty much as they are, are not "truss" structures, but more slender post-type towers.

I bring these incongruities up because I want to emphasize that I know memory plays tricks. I suppose that is one reason I want to see another triangle. To verify what I do remember...because it certainly seems like dream when I try to recreate it from memory.

-------

James Easton; the illustration done from the Seattle sighting sems to capture the overall "feeling" that I experienced.

You are standing on the side of a highway, looking at something totally unreal in a very mundane setting.

Also from the Seattle drawing, it looks like another shopping center is across the street. If it's a K-Mart, like the store in my sighting's area, we are obviously dealing with E.Ts who don't mind doing a little extra driving for what looks like a deal. Just wait 'til they get that crap home in Alpha Centauri and it falls apart, as usual. Then it's back in the Triangle and alllll the way back to Earth. I hope they remember to bring the receipts.
---------
Thanks again for the links.

-Sudi
 
Years after my sighting I did have one of those odd possible verifications re; our sighting. I was at a new job on a break flicking through UFO magazine - the time I saw the illustration and thought: ' Wow, I saw that! ' The Assistant manager wandered up and looked over my shoulder and he said almost exactly the same thing. I said: ' You're kidding!' And asked him where and when. He said it was also in the winter of 81 when he was playing outside his house in South Wales. It was coming on for dusk when he saw an enormous triangle fly silently over the houses ( there must have been other sightings as it was a built up area) He said it was black, and definitely solid, since it was still light enough to see. It was also something he had never forgotten. So it was the same time of year we both saw it and the same year. But I have never heard of many reports from that time in the UK, so possibly they were put down to aircraft ( like Vulcans) Some kind of silent Super-Vulcan.
 
Lethe - Is it possible to try and work out if you saw the same craft on one journey?

What can all this mean?

I wonder why everything goes quiet before these things are seen and why they make no noise?

A lot of these sightings then seem 'staged' but why are particular individuals chosen to see them? If they were all sceptics who now 'believe' then it would have a purpose but is that actually true? Is there anyone on this messageboard who was a complete Sceptic and then saw something that caused a complete reversal? Personally I believed they were probably here anyway.

Sudi - I don't have a scanner so it takes a kerfuffle every time I want to use an image. I'll try and sort something out asap.

Oh and what does everyone think about Whitley Streibers theory about the triangle shape? I'm not sure, but you know how Keel (I KNOW, I blush!) thinks the intelligence anticipates our thoughts and makes them real (which Streiber sort of goes along with at the end of Communion)? Well isn't that what sort of happened with Streiber's book? He goes on about the significance of triangles and its cultural, and possibly joint heritage with the aliens and that was in 1986. And hasn't the triangle shape been seen only a decade or so before that time growing in numbers through to the end of the nineties?

Mmnnn.
 
Chant - the guy and I did try to narrow down our respective sightings, but there was a 16 year interval, and all we could definitely say is that is was the winter and probably the school ( Christmas) holidays ( which might make it 1982 really) He knew he was off school as he'd been playing out with friends all day and for our family we would not have been out so late (10.30 p.m). If we had school the next day, as this was a Sunday night. We both wanted to say we must have seen it on the same day but too many years had gone by to verify that.
There definitely was no sound, my mother saw the lights crossing the downs and pulled the car up and switched the engine off. The night was still and frosty and there was complete silence, before it crossed our car, during and after as it flew out across the Vale. It didn't really have much effect on us, except acute astonishment, if pushed I would still come down on the ' Military aircraft ' side. Something that big in an area bristling with airbases would be picked up on Radar surely and it must have been. I'd love to say ' Oooh yes, it was a real nuts-and-bolts Alien ship from wherever', but if it was it was a very blatant, in-yer-face, I'm-going-to-fly-through-all-your-radar-installations-and ya-boo-you-can't-see-me approach.
I'm sorry, I've not read Whitley Schreiber so I don't know what his views are on the Triangle shape. :confused:
 
firstly, regarding sightings - I did see something about 7 or 8 years ago, outside Atlanta, Georgia... I was with a bunch of friends and we were all hanging out, and at one point I lied down on the ground as I was smoking a cigarrette.. I was staring at the clear blue afternoon sky for a little while, and then all of a sudden I saw a small white streak go across it - which I initially took to be a shooting star or something similiar. As I opened up my mouth to say "hey! I just saw a shooting star" I only got the first few words out "hey I ju-" because very soon after the first there was another streak close by but it made a fucking 90 degree turn and made a big L shaped streak... I was speechless, agahst - and of course none of my friends believed any of it - even though they were standing right there (but not looking of course)

secondly, regarding triangles - have a look at this:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/2906/tr3b.htm
 
scotmedia said:
Can I please ask some questions?:
Was there any discernable noise? If not, could any
traffic, etc., possibly have masked any noticeable sound?
What material would you describe the object as being made
of?
Did it reflect any available light?
What approximate height was it flying at and did it ever
change altitude?
How wide and how deep was the object?
Were all three sides of the triangle an equal size?
Were there any noticeable features on the object?
How fast would you describe it as moving?
Did it move in a straight line?
Did you notice any change in the atmosphere when the
object was present?
Did you report your sighting?
Were there any contemporary 'UFO' reports in the local
press?
James Easton.

sure, here are the answers in order:
*no traffic (was 3am) - it was pretty silent, eeriely so
*no idea but i can only really concieve it being metal
* no it didnt reflect light particularly, look preety black but then it was dark
* didnt change altitude much if at all, it was about twice as high as a house
*size about that of a house
* yeah they were, viewing from underneath at least
* i think it changed direction gently
* not really, it was an intense experience though
* no never reported
* dont think so, didn't really look
 
Chant says:Sudi - I don't have a scanner so it takes a kerfuffle every time I want to use an image. I'll try and sort something out asap.

Oh and what does everyone think about Whitley Streibers theory about the triangle shape?


---

I understand about wrestling with getting images from real space to cyber.
:)

I have read some of Streiber's stuff but don't recall his theory on the triangles. (I'm just full of requests...) Is there a synopsis you can post?
----
rajajuju---I enjoyed reading the text at your link. But sometimes the conglomeration of "scientific" acronyms and technology titles makes me leary of the veracity of such articles. (I do think the photo at the site is probably the only real photo I've seen of a triangle, even though it doesn't match my sighting exactly.)
But when phrases like " A circular, plasma filled accelerator ring called the Magnetic Field Disrupter," get thrown at me, my B.S. dectector is alerted, rightly or wrongly. I guess a "Magnetic Field Disrupter" could exist, but I feel like I'm dealing with a B-sci-fi movie script.
Anyway, ya' never know, I could be totally wrong and that explanation might be the real thing.

I still go with a secret project (U.S. or U.K. or Russian....or combo efforts... who knows?) as the source of the triangle.

What really intrigues me is the purpose of the craft, and WHY they fly the thing so low over cities and IF it's secret, why let any civilian see it, since it can obviously choose not to be seen...why the lights? Couldn't it operate without landing lights until it lands at Roswell or wherever? And IF it's military how have they kept every person working on it 100% silent? Why the reports of different colored lights? I'm sure it's not for decorative purposes. This would lead me to believe that there may be some "doppler shift" going on that makes the lights shift color. After all, our perception of light changes as the speed of the source changes.

Whatever. Too much tea.

Talk to y'all later-
Sudi
 
On 20/3/04, Chant wrote:

>Other round or saucer-shaped objects have been seen
>before the 1947 sighting...

Just a general note on this point; there are relatively
few reports of 'disc-shaped', aerial, objects pre-Arnold
and those which do exist are debatably comparative.


>...and have been painted and recorded...

The problem with 'saucer-like' depictions in earlier
artwork is that they generally occur in religious
[Christian], Renaissance paintings. Where is their source
within the bible?

'The Baptism of Christ' by Aert de Gelder (1645-1727), is
often cited as foremost historical evidence of 'flying
saucers', see, for example:

http://www.angelfire.com/movies/UFO/content/page30.html

Did de Gelder have some privileged insight?

Of course not; consider comparative artwork portraying
'The Baptism of Christ':

http://www.textweek.com/art/baptism_of_Jesus.htm

How many also feature a disc-shaped 'heavenly' artefact?


The explosion of 'flying saucer' sightings post-Arnold
was a veritable landmark.

Although that alone should be alarming and question the
influence of Arnold's report, it's much worse. As we now
realise, Arnold didn't actually describe 'saucers' at
all.

Suddenly, the media's awash with 'flying disc' hysteria,
amidst concerns of a new Russian secret weapon.

Meantime, absolutely nobody [perhaps a single exception
- I have studied copies of the mainstream American
newspapers post-Arnold] is seeing even one of the
enigmatic, "looked something like a pie plate that was
cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear"
aerial objects which perplexed Arnold, let alone several
in formation.

Arnold's utterly misconstrued report and resultant
'flying saucers' are the genesis of popularised ufology.

It could hardly be a more specious foundation.


Recognising this, 'triangular UFO' accounts are certainly
no less intriguing. Indeed, quite the reverse; unlike our
'saucers', there doesn't seem to be any one event which
sparked a profusion of analogous sightings.


James Easton.
 
I must admit that I read all the stuff on the link about the new technological Triangle thing but found myself struggling to finish it. It sounds like cr'p to me.

Mmn. The Whitley Streiber triangle theory...its long and tenuous but this is what he says -

'...many ancient traditions that view man as a being with three parts: body, mind, and heart. It seems possible that the visitors view themselves as an entire species with three parts, judging from the three distinct basic forms that have been seen...'

Scars found on abductees are often linear cuts in the shape of triangles or wounds triangular in shape (rashes, burns).

We're in a three-dimensional universe which may indicate that the use of the triangle shows abductees that they are also from the same dimension/universe. This symbol of the triangle is seen by many people.

'...The fundamental idea of the triad as a creative energy is that two opposite forces coming into balance create a third force...'

I think this is meant to imply that man and alien will balance out genetically and create a new stronger species.

'...ancient Taoist thought the fundamental force in the universe was duality, the yin and the yang, positive and negative...this was also thought by the Aztec and many other cultures to be fundamental to everything. And the duality, when it was in harmony, formed the triad.'

It's therefore an ancient tradition to this planet. Whether he means to imply it was given to us, I don't know.

He sees Egyptian imagery in one witness's vision during an ordeal and makes the connection with the pyramids and ancient Egyptian ideas and Gods.

and says also that

'...Life is expressed in Christian cosmology as having emerged from the unity of the Trinity.'

So he's saying that there's a rich tradition on this planet with three, triads, pyramids, triangles, culturally and religiously and now we are seeing it on UFO's and inside the craft and on the aliens uniforms and in the 'messages' they leave on people. It could be just our imagination that constructs these things that are embedded in our cultural heritage or they may be real physical entities that share this common truth about our dimension or anything between those two really as poor Whitley doesn't know what to make of any of it either!!:confused:

The passage is very long and this is meant to jog your memory rather than give you everything so I hope it helps!;)
 
Chant said:
The passage is very long and this is meant to jog your memory rather than give you everything so I hope it helps!

-------

Thanks for rounding up the Streiber triangle theories for me. Yes, that helps a great deal in seeing where he places that type of iconography historically. It reminds me of a lot of Jung's handling of the trilogy, both in religion and as archetypes which merge with universal subconscious imagry.

I am wondering, though, since some have seen the triangle navigate in all directions without regard to air friction or gravity, (it seems,) if a triangular shape isn't just the best design for taking off at any angle. (Without the shape being a symbolic shape, mainly, that is.)

Although, most natural shape is a circle...a disc. (Arnold's discs, I guess.) What benefits would a triangle have over a disc shape in manuevering in air?

I guess within a rigid frame configuration, a triangle would give the option of dividing into smaller, like shapes. (As some observers have noted---that the triangles have either broken into three separate triangles, or have converged from three into one larger.) I don't know if you were engineering a craft as a disc if this capability would work as well...you would have to stack them like flapjacks (panckes, crepes,) in order to get the divisions to work. I'm just rambling on here, hoping that something will pop out that helps explain "why a triangle and not a disc?"

(Since I'm arguing with myself about triangle shapes vs., disc shapes, the musings also prompt an observation I made early after my sighting and telling a few skeptical friends what I had seen. Having grown up on a diet of saucer-shaped UFOs in movies and science fiction, if I was going to hallucinate an unknown aerial craft, a triangle certainly didn't fit any preconceived notions of what I would have conjectured an unidentifiable flying object to be. I would have imagined circular lights or a disc, a la "The Day the Earth Stood Still.")


Since I frimly believe these things are very terrestrial, I think that instead of worrying about magnetic fields' disruption, we should look at some practical aspects of the concrete observations and see what makes sense. Of course, if it does have a magneto thing on it, or an interrocetor, then physics as we know and usually verify in our three-d world do fly out the triangular porthole.

Thanks again for the Streiber theory.

-Sudi
 
Some years ago, the following originally appeared as a
brief posting on alt.paranet.ufo and I followed it up,
asking if I could document the claimed incident in more
detail. The witness agreed and there ensued considerable
correspondence.

I summarised this account using only verbatim testimony
of the witness and have their confirmation it's an
accurate record of events. The witness was a 41 year old
lady, then currently a student.

[START]
On March 7th, 1995, at around 9.00 p.m., my father, son
and I were on our way home, traveling in a westerly
direction on Martin Road, a county road between Two
Harbors MN and Duluth, in a remote area, north-east of
Lake Superior.

Lighting conditions were very dark. The moon was in the
last quarter, right before the new moon, so it was a
sliver moon. It wasn't snowing in that area at the time,
however, the day before there was a huge snow storm, but
it had passed and there were only scattered flurries that
night.

As we were driving, we saw what appeared to be a huge
building or stadium on a high hill. It was the altitude
that made it appear to be on a hill, there is no hill in
this area.

I remarked about never seeing a building there before. I
asked my father at that point what the object was? He
didn't respond. My father is a stroke victim and
therefore has very limited speech. I could not recall a
factory or stadium or anything in the area that might
have been the size of what we were seeing.

As we proceeded up the road, the building started moving
toward us, at a fast rate.

Finally what we thought was a building was alongside us.

It was some sort of craft. It was huge. It had 4 lights
in front, and one larger light underneath.

The craft approached us from the south and was to the
west of us. It hovered off to the left and to the west of
us so that we could see it quite clearly. I would say it
hovered for approximately 60 seconds.

It seemed to be observing us.

My son was asleep in the back seat and didn't wake, even
though I was shouting at him to look.

We were almost stopped at this point. It then angled
downwards, tilting the front with the 4 lights directly
at us. When the craft hovered the back dropped down. It
then started moving toward us and toward the ground. When
it came at us, we could not see the back of the craft as
it was at approximately a 35 degree angle toward the
ground, with the headlights pointing at us. We could only
see the headlights and front of the craft at that time,
the light underneath was not visible at that point.

The front of the craft may itself have been angled
slightly, I can't recall for certain. We were also unable
to see the top of the craft.

We both thought it might hit us, which it looked like it
would have if it hadn't dropped the back end yet again
and started hovering in front of us, over the road.

It tilted back and hovered over us.

It was wider in front than in back, creating a wedge
shape from front to back. It was like a wedge of cake on
it's side, or at least from the angle we could see it.

It may have angled in the centre of the front slightly,
I'm not sure, but it gave that impression.

We are talking about a craft that is approximately 330
feet wide, at it's widest point, and approximately 220
feet in length.

The width of the back was much thinner, I can't be
certain of the width at the narrowest point.

In height, from the upper edge to the lower edge, the
front of the craft was approximately 40 feet. It was
comparative with the height of a 2 story house.

It appeared to use the back as a rudder, as when it was
hovering it angled the back down and seemed to just sit
watching us.

The was no determinable sound from the craft.


The lights in front were approximately 40 ft in diameter.

From left to right, they were spaced approximately as
follows:

From left hand front edge to first light - 30 feet

From first light to second light - 20 feet

From second light to third light - 70 feet

From third light to fourth light - 20 feet

From fourth light to right hand front edge - 30 feet

They were not flush with the end of the craft (front
edges).

There was a large gap between the front centre lights.
I'm not sure what was there as I was more interested in
the underside.

The lights were larger than the gaps.

These lights were an off-white color and did not
illuminate anything but the craft itself. They glowed,
and yet there was no beam.

When the object came at us we should have been
illuminated, we were not, neither was any of the
surrounding area. The lights did not change color at any
time. The only thing that was lit by them was the craft
itself.

As we continued to travel east on the road, we passed
under the object.

As we were passing under the craft I was looking up at
it.

The color became very evident; it was a snow-cloud gray.

The light underneath the craft was the size of all the
other lights put together, i.e., approximately 160 feet
in diameter. In my estimation, it was the size of a small
house. It was centered and there was approx 85 feet of
area on either side from the side edges.

Underneath, in the centre of the craft and surrounding
this central light, were objects which are difficult to
describe. They were angular, square, rectangular, the
only way I can describe them is maybe like doors? They
did not protrude a lot, but enough to see them.


When I could no longer see the craft, I looked in the
rear-view mirror, and it was gone.

I said to my dad that if he and my son hadn't been with
me I would have stopped and he said, "turn around, turn
around". I told him it was gone.


After we went under the craft, I was just in a state of
shock for a while.

My son didn't waken until after we were under it and it
was gone.

I then spoke to my dad some. Then I thought I should
remember everything I could and checked the time, I
estimated that it had been between 10 and 15 minutes
since we had passed under the craft. I looked at the
clock and it was 9:15 p.m.

We were about 15 or 20 minutes longer getting home than
usual. I attribute this to watching the craft and maybe
not driving as fast as usual after seeing it. I watched
the sky the rest of the way home.

We didn't stop, we kept driving as we still had some
distance to go to get home. As mentioned, my father is a
stroke victim and therefore has very limited speech. To
ask him about the encounter, "yes" and "no" questions
would essentially have to be asked. The next day, I asked
him, "did we see something weird on the way home last
night?" "Yes, Yes", was his reply. We did discuss some
of the experience on the way home, but it is very
difficult to communicate with him due to his disability.
I am able to understand him through gesture, facial
expression etc. He is able to communicate to some extent,
but his vocabulary is very limited.

There was another vehicle the night we saw the object, a
pickup truck. It turned off on a side road before we
passed under it. I believe the truck turned at about the
time the object started to hover the first time. The
truck turned to the left and that was the end of seeing
it, we were more interested in the object.

I had thought maybe we would see something in the paper
about it, but nothing was there and if the person in the
truck was alone, they may have thought they just imagined
it.


I am 41 years old and have never seen anything like this
before nor have I heard of anything like it. My father is
70 and he too has never seen anything like it. Both of us
felt we were being observed by this craft.

Since seeing this craft it has made thinking of anything
else difficult. I know it was there and so does my
father.

I have almost become obsessed with this thing. It is
making me afraid to drive at night, because I'm
constantly watching the sky. I want to see it again. I
don't know why.


I have also been having nightmares since seeing it. On
Tuesday night after seeing the craft, I dreamed that I
was somehow involved in a vivisection. I don't recall the
rest of the dreams, but I have had very disturbing dreams
that wake me and I can't remember them.

The vivisection dream is the only one I really remember.
I assume that is due to the fact that I will be taking a
human movement class and have to dissect a human cadaver.
I have been taking very intensive anatomy and physiology
classes for the past couple of years, as well as other
related classes. It was strange to me that I would have
this dream after seeing this craft. In the three years of
anatomy classes, I've never had bad dreams about it. I
usually never recall any dreaming, so the nightmares, or
interrupted sleep is new too.

My son is sleeping fine and we haven't noticed any
unusual physical effects, such as marks.

My car has however been acting strange since that night.
It has been "coughing" but we haven't had a chance to
have it checked out by a mechanic.


I felt that it was not a friendly looking craft. The only
curves on it were the lights, everything else was
angular.


The encounter for my father was not as traumatic as one
might think. He and my mother saw another craft many
years ago along with approximately 100 other people. He
tells me that this was in North Carolina in the early
50's and people had stopped their cars to watch this
craft.

I do wish very much that he were able to talk, as in
asking him questions he says he did see the top of the
craft, but is unable to articulate what he saw.

When I posted details of my experience to
alt.paranet.ufo, I wanted to make the post as soon as
possible as I didn't want to forget anything.

I wasn't really looking for anything other than to make a
post at that time.

I didn't know what to look for as I didn't really know
where to start or what I would be trying to find.

Any previous interest in UFO's has always been just a
normal curiosity.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd see something
like this.
[END]


Like any anecdotal testimony, it has to be taken 'as
read'. That noted, it's one case which encapsulates all
of the common and quite bizarre elements - the reported
night-time observation of a slow moving, hovering,
exceptionally low-altitude, triangular/wedge-shaped
object, lights etc. and which gives an impression of
being 'attracted' to the witness(es).

It's practically impossible to reconcile this, even with
a yet to be revealed super-secret aircraft.


If puzzling enough, consider another, surely comparative,
report I also documented [one of several from the same
era which I'm aware of]. Again, this is verbatim
testimony:

[START]
I had a UFO sighting at approximately 9:30 p.m.

I was riding in a car with two other people going down I
5, south from San Francisco.

At about 250 miles north of LA, I saw two huge
floodlights on the side of the car. When we passed by the
object we could see it very clearly. It was about as wide
as three cars and it was much longer.

It had a stingray shape (it was shaped like a stingray
fish). It was round in front, it had protrusions on each
side (like small wings) and came to a rounded point in
the back.

I did see the size of the craft. I think it was about 40
feet long and 30 feet deep, about as high as a two story
building.

It was dark and the color was hard to see but I think the
color was a metallic grey or black.

It had a blue light on one side and a green light on the
other side. It was a long time ago, so I could be wrong,
but I think the green light was on the right and the blue
light was on the left. The lights were on each side at
the farthest point on each side. They were at the end of
the "wings" on the sides of the craft.

The floodlights were right on front of the craft, similar
to headlights but brighter than daylight and brighter
than any light I've ever seen. They were brighter than
high intensity mercury vapour lights which are used to
light up football fields at night.

They were approximately one fourth to one eighth the size
of the front of the craft, similar to the size of
headlights on a car.

They were on all the time.


It was hovering above the ground at about three feet. We
immediately pulled the car over and got out. There was no
wind and absolutely no sound.

Then, it slowly rose up and floated over the two lane
freeway and paused very still on the other side before
taking off.

I saw the underside of the craft but it was dark so I
didn't see details. I do know that I did not see any
wheels or landing gear. I was looking specifically for
that because I couldn't figure out how the craft was
suspended without any moving parts. When I looked to see
what was holding it up, I was astonished to find that
nothing was holding it up and it was not touching the
ground.

There were no lights visible underneath the craft.

When the vehicle went over the freeway, it had been in a
stationary position. It paused about 5 seconds and took
off at an accelerated rate, which was instantaneous. I
mean, it was like going hundreds of miles an hour in one
second, with no acceleration time. It travelled straight
at about 30 or 40 feet off the ground and then it went up
into the sky and disappeared.

The craft made no discernable noise at all, even when it
took off.

It had two red lights on the back, they were smaller in
comparison to the other lights.

When it took off, it did so at lightning speed and was
gone in 3 seconds.

I've never known anyone else who has seen anything like
this.

Kathy.
[END]


The date; some thirty years ago, September, l974.


James Easton.
 
Two more fascinating documents. (Found in Scotmedia's post concerning a March, 1995 and a September, 1974 sighting.)

But...1974? I'm flummoxed.

I'm beginning to realign my "terrestrial origins" hypothesis.

-Sudi
 
James Easton -

On the 5 April 1943 US Army Air Forces flying instructor Gerry Casey, together with a student, both saw a craft that they couldn't explain moving in a way that suggested it was 'independent of air-reaction'. Both agreed that it was an orange colour, changing to white when it accelerated. Casey felt certain the object was elliptical, while the student was certain it was circular. Both agreed it had a rounded hump on the top and a smaller hump on the bottom. Casey later computed its departure speed to be over 7000 m.p.h.' Timothy Good, Alien Base, page 14.

During the summer of 1944, Bill Steele, who frequently observed V-1's being attacked by Royal Air Force fighters, was watching. On clear days he could see the aircraft patrolling, the V-1's approaching, and the Observer Corps firing rocket signals to alert pilots. 'It was while watching one of these that I saw these curious discs. The impression was of hub-caps, though a little larger, circling the V-1 and running alongside with ease...the odd thing was the curious melodious whistle-like noise that I heard...' page 20.

That same summer Madeleine Arnoux (aged 13) was out on her bike and saw a craft about the size of a car 'it was of a dull metallic grey colour' and she saw beings about 1metre tall. She couldn't move and felt the air very oppressive (very Vallee/Keel) and ran away as soon as she was released. She feared ridicule so told no one. It was only when news of 'soucoupes volantes' began to appear in the newspapers that she 'began to put two and two together'. page 21.

There are so many more it would bore you to relate them. Sufficient proof that Discs were indeed seen. The descriptions are many, but its enough that coining the phrase doesn't mean the phenomena didn't exist prior to its naming.

The Disc doesn't just appear in Christian tradition either. What about ancient India with all their religious depictions of the vessels that carried 'sky-people' around (isn't it Virmana's? I haven't got the book to hand just now), some even have very detailed descriptions of seemingly nuts and bolts craft and how they may have been constructed. And again, the Chinese called one of them an 'earthenware vessels' which in my view pre-empts 'flying saucers' by 800 years only they didn't have the Media resources to spread the word around the globe.

What we all need to ask ourselves is what was it about Kenneth Arnold's sighting that caused so much interest? Why was THAT the case that broke into mainstream media? He certainly wasn't any MORE qualified than others who have seen the same and even gone on to report it. I don't think the fact that people saw discs after his report is surprising. What IS surprising is why his is considered the first credible sighting and description of what later became 'flying saucers'. :confused:

Are you saying that because there is no firm terrestrial 'spark' for the triangle phenomenon that is has more merit than Disc phenomenon (which may be tainted by Jung-consciousness and media interference)?

So the discs are Arnold's, the Pyramid-shaped ones are possibly inspired by Mars/Egyptian hysteria that developed through the last century, and the cigar-shaped ones could be Freudian/Jungian. The balls could be fuel dumps or methane, but there are an awfully long list of different ones throughout history. What is it about the Triangles that attracts you personally, as an area of research? Is it because it is a latter-day phenomenon and you can gain access to witnesses first hand or is there any other reason? I'm intrigued.;)
 
On 26/3/04, sudi wrote:

>Two more fascinating documents. (Found in Scotmedia's
>post concerning a March, 1995 and a September, 1974
>sighting.)

Please, call me James...

>But...1974? I'm flummoxed.

Another, contemporary, comparative account I've come
across dates from 1975, as reported in the 'National
Enquirer'. Although perhaps not exactly regarded as a
reliable source, I understand the 'Enquirer' did
prominently feature 'mainstream UFO reports' back then,
see:

http://www.cohenufo.org/hynek.enquir.html

Note Bob Pratt's involvement - more on that later.

More importantly, the following case had several named
witnesses, including a Police Chief. As published by the
'Enquirer':

'Triangular-Shaped Saucer Shakes Up Five North Carolina
Counties'

'Skies Over Lumberton, N.C., Visited By A Glowing Object
that Baffled Officials For Nearly A Week - but Remained
Unexplained'

[...]

The first of the scores of reports came shortly after 1
a.m. on April 3 (of 1975). "We were swamped with calls
from the public and 30 officers reported seeing a strange
object," submitted Lumberton sheriff's radio dispatcher
Ronn Thompson. Most of the callers-in said they had seen
the UFO over the north end of the rural hamlet.

"I saw the object hovering about 50 feet over the town's
water tank," said officer Phil Stanton, one of the
policemen who received calls from citizens who were, if
not frightened, certainly very impressed at what many
thought was a drop-in from extragalactic beings.

"It seemed to be triangular or vee-shaped. I could make
out reddish lights on one side of it and green or blue
lights along the other. I thought it was about the size
of a Cadillac. The strange thing was that there was no
sound at all. It appeared to have a solid hull and one
big spotlight."

Just as the mystified officer began to register that he
was seeing something that he couldn't do anything about--
and something that very few others could expect ever to
see--the strange object vanished, hurtling away at almost
unearthly speed. And then--"I heard on my patrol car
radio that it was spotted over St. Pauls just 90 seconds
later. And St. Pauls is 15 miles away," he said.


Over in St. Pauls, security guard John McPherson and
officer Tom Hagens chased the triangular mystery in a
patrol ear. Their first glimpse of it came with a red
flash "like an explosion," behind some trees way back in
the boondocks. The strange craft was moving low and slow
across an isolated country road and the officers saw
their duty.

"We took off after it, but lost it. Then we stopped the
car and just waited," reported McPherson. And then, as
though playing an interplanetary game of tag, "There it
was again ... it seemed to be triangular, maybe vee-
shaped, with blue lights all around the edges and a big
pulsating ball of red light in the center. There were two
big beams like searchlights. The next thing I knew, it
took off at terrific speed--without a sound.


If that isn't the same whatsis that Stanton saw four days
later, it must at least have been a sister ship.

And suddenly, the same ship or one much like it turned up
a few miles away. When McPherson and Hagens last saw it
in St. Pauls, it was racing west. Soon it was picked up
by Hoke County Deputy Sheriff George McGuire. "It seemed
to be travelling about the speed of a jet, but far closer
to the ground than I've ever seen a jet fly," he
recalled.

Reports of mysterious doings in the North Carolina skies
kept pouring in. The Lumberton radio dispatcher, Ronn
Thompson, found that his curiosity was whetted by all the
reports he had received from presumably sane and sober
citizens. So off he went on his own UFO hunt when he got
off duty Friday night. Sure enough about 20 miles
southwest of Lumberton he really did spot it.

"It appeared suddenly, less than 200 feet above my car,"
he told reporters later. "I could see a beam shining out
of the thing and flashed my car lights. Incredibly, the
beam flashed back at me in response. I flashed my lights
a second time and again I got a response.

"Then the object took off at tremendous speed and
vanished."


There were more reports. A police chief, Gary Moore, of
White Lakes, N.C., said he spotted a similar triangular
UFO with a pulsating red light just about at dawn on
Saturday, April 5. But the visit to Lumberton was nearing
an end. One more cop, State Trooper Marshall McGee, was
to make a sighting in the early hours of Sunday, April 6.
He saw something in the sky between Lumberton and St.
Pauls and his description was substantially the same as
those submitted by many others.

Naturally, the Federal Aviation Administration was
consulted and, as happens so often, it was, officially,
baffled. Authorities at the nearby Fayetteville, N.C.,
Airport were notified almost as soon as the UFO was first
spotted. "We had a Piedmont Airlines Boeing 737 make a
test flight in the area," said an FAA spokesman "But the
UFO reports continued after it landed".

And not only are the civilian flying folk stumped. An Air
Force official at the nearby Fort Bragg flying facility
admitted, "We're just as baffled as the FAA."
[END]


There's an accompanying sketch at:

http://www.voyager.ukonline.co.uk/ftp/carolina.jpg


Note the features which are common to 'triangular UFOS'
in later years:

...hovering about 50 feet...

It seemed to be triangular or vee-shaped...

The strange thing was that there was no sound at all...

...the strange object vanished, hurtling away at almost
unearthly speed...

The strange craft was moving low and slow across an
isolated country road...

...a big pulsating ball of red light in the center...

...far closer to the ground than I've ever seen a jet
fly...

It appeared suddenly, less than 200 feet above my car...


Although not entirely clear, these also seem to be
predominately night-time reports - "The first of the
scores of reports came shortly after 1 a.m." ..."just
about at dawn", hence presumably the stated
'searchlights' [a perfectly terrestrial technology!].


I would have to question the reliability of this claim:
"I could see a beam shining out of the thing and flashed
my car lights. Incredibly, the beam flashed back at me in
response. I flashed my lights a second time and again I
got a response".


Anyway, the point being that there was a *possibly* an
analogous reported 'flap' almost 30 years ago.


Bob Pratt, has a related interest:

http://www.bobpratt.org/triangles.html


You mentioned, "the illustration done from the Seattle
sighting seems to capture the overall 'feeling' that I
experienced".

This is the full account Gary Val Tenuta provided to
myself:

The following is a true and accurate account of my "close
encounter" in Seattle, Washington (U.S.A.) which occurred
in 1993. I believe it was in the month of November.

It was a Sunday night about 9:30. I often had occasion to
be driving north about that time of evening on Sundays
and I usually took the I-5 freeway. This time, however, I
knew the freeway, northbound, was jammed up due to an
accident. So I had taken an alternate route which
eventually led me to what I think was East Marginal Way,
right next to the main Boeing Aircraft plant.

I noticed three red lights low in the sky ahead of me.
They were moving in unison, very slowly across my field
of vision from east to west. At first I thought they must
be the lights of a low flying plane, perhaps about to
land. Then I thought, no, they must be helicopters
because a plane, even if it was landing, wouldn't be
moving that slowly. The trouble was, I couldn't actually
see the craft or crafts that the lights were attached to.
They were, maybe, a half mile ahead of me, about 30
degrees to my right. Normally, I wouldn't have paid much
attention to this at all because I'd been making that
Sunday night drive past Boeing (although via the freeway)
for twelve years. In all that time I'd seen plenty of
airplanes and helicopters flying low in this area. But
something was different this time. It took me a minute to
realize what it was. It was the fact that the lights
weren't blinking. I thought that was odd. It seemed to me
every airplane or helicopter I've ever seen flying at
night had blinking lights. I squinted my eyes as I drove
toward the lights, trying to see just what I was actually
looking at. Although I was now only about two blocks away
from being directly under the flight path of these
lights, I still could not make out what they were
attached to. However, from their slow, steady movement,
in unison, I was pretty sure all three of them were
attached to a single object rather than being independent
of each other. By the time I was directly in line with
their flight path, they were about to enter the airspace
over Boeing Field to my immediate left. I was now
convinced it was a single, low-flying craft of some kind
and I knew there was something very odd here. I pulled my
car off to the side of the road and rolled down the
window to get a better look. But the craft was now
directly over head so I had to get out of the car to see
it.

I opened the car door and stepped out. Craning my neck to
see the craft as it passed slowly directly over my head
at an estimated altitude of less than 500 feet (Note: at
the actual time of the sighting my impression was that
the craft was perhaps only about 150 above me) I could
see it was a gigantic black triangle! There is no other
way to describe it because that's precisely what it was;
a huge, black, triangle; not just "sort of" triangular
shaped, like one of those wedge-winged jets I'd seen
photos of. It was just one big, three-sided, cookie-
cutter-straight-edged, black, geometric shape; a triangle
with one large, round unblinking red light at each of its
three corners, flat up against the underside of the
craft. There was a high, gray cloud cover that evening,
subtly lit by the Seattle city lights in the distance. I
could clearly and unobstructedly see the object like a
huge, dense black silhouette against this gray ceiling.

I stood there almost not believing what I knew I was
seeing. I actually said to myself, "Ok. What, exactly,
are you seeing? You're going to want to remember every
detail of this! Just the facts, now. What, exactly, do
you see?" I made a mental inventory. "Black triangle. Red
light on each corner, flat up against the underside of
the craft. They don't blink. ...(Note: at this point it
has proceeded on past me and was now over Boeing field)
...It looks like it's about seventy-five to a hundred
feet above one of the main Boeing hangars. It's moving
very slowly. Maybe five miles per hour. It's heading
west. It appears to be about the size of a football
field."

Suddenly I realized, as I stood there in the dark on this
quiet empty street, the object didn't make a sound! Maybe
more than anything else, that's what made the whole thing
so eerie. Something that huge, that close, moving through
the air at a snail's pace should be making some kind of a
sound! A hum! A rumble! Anything! But, no. It just moved
across the sky like something out of a Steven Spielberg
movie with the volume turned off. I looked up and down
the street to see if anyone else was witnessing this
silent event, but the street was dark and empty in both
directions. I looked up again at the mysterious craft now
blending into the dark horizon. I watched it until I
couldn't see it anymore and then it was over.

I got back into my car and closed the door. The window
was still open and I took another look. Nothing was there
but the gray night sky, softly aglow from the distant
city lights. It was as if nothing had happened. I sat
there for a minute and lit a cigarette. Then I turned the
car on and took one more look, knowing it wouldn't be
there, but still wanting to remember where it had been.
All the way home I just kept asking myself, "What the
hell was that?"

Whatever it was, it was my one and only close encounter.
I waited all my life to see a UFO and, as it turned out,
it was nothing like I always imagined it would be. I
wanted to see a "flying saucer"! You know, one of those
shiny, disk-shaped things that everybody else sees. But,
no. I had to see a flying black triangle!

©1998, Gary Val Tenuta
[END]


James Easton.
 
From James Easton's post,
Gary Val Tenuta's observation:

"I looked up and down
the street to see if anyone else was witnessing this
silent event, but the street was dark and empty in both
directions."

Yet another observation wherein the sightee notes no other people around.

In fact, Val Tenuta's entire statement could define my experience exactly.
--------
Pratt's list has sightings back to 1960. This is new information for me. It also makes me wonder what technology can explain these early events. I had run across reports from about 1968 concerning large multi-colored craft, but not triangular objects. So the paradigm I had wedged my "military-craft-timeline" into has to be reformatted. I was thinking, "OK...big wierd colorful UFOs, late '60s...then Triangular stuff flying around by the 80s and then finally the Big Triangles in the 90s."

But I guess that doesn't work anymore.
-----------

Another update. I saw the "Triangle at the Bar Sightee" at a funeral the other day. I asked him if he would sketch his sighting so I could add it to the page I have my sketch. He said he might. I will bug him.

And...this will sound fabricated. But. When I asked the Bar sightee to draw his sighting, he mentioned that the Trash-Dumping sightee had "seen another one." I said "You're joking!" Bar Sightee said "No, he called me the other night and said "I saw your friend again." Bar sightee said "Who?" Trash sightee said, "Your friend the triangle."

I asked where when what ...etc. Bar guy said "Pretty much like before..." Anyway. I have emailed Bar guy and pressed him to get more info from Trash sightee. He is close friends with Trash guy...I'm not, just acquaintances. S0 I am trying to get more info from Trash sightee through Bar sightee...and a sketch from Bar guy, and maybe one from the Trash Dumping sightee too, eventually.

For the record, when I did last talk to Trash guy about his sighting, I asked him if he wanted to see another one and he said definitely, "yes."

I really want to know if anyone was with him, etc, etc....that makes four sightings of BIG triangles between three people. But 14 years since I saw one. I am envious of Trash Guy, but it gives me hope of another spotting.

-Sudi
 
On 27/3/04, Chant wrote:

>On the 5 April 1943 US Army Air Forces flying instructor
>Gerry Casey...

[...]

Casey reportedly "felt certain the object was
elliptical", Steele seemingly describes what appeared to
be tiny disc-like artefacts and the young girl apparently
doesn't describe the claimed object's shape at all,
merely associating it with a 'flying saucer' years later.


>She couldn't move and felt the air very oppressive (very
>Vallee/Keel) and ran away as soon as she was released.

According to Jenny Randles:

"It occurred one hot and thundery day in the summer of
1944. World War II raged around the village of Le Verger,
near Toulon-sur-Arroux, France, when a thirteen-year-old
girl, Madeleine Arnoux, decided to risk the many Germans
and resistance fighters in the woods to cycle out and
pick berries. In doing so she confronted a strange object
in the grass, like a small car but dull grey in colour.
She then noticed that small men stood beside it, no more
than three feet tall and dressed in brown one-piece
suits. Feeling *desperately afraid* [my emphasis], she
tried to run but was paralysed and lost all sense of
time...".

Any reason to conclude she wasn't 'frozen', other than by
fear?


>She feared ridicule so told no one. It was only when
>news of 'soucoupes volantes' began to appear in the
>newspapers that she 'began to put two and two together'.

So, this 'midgets in a small car' tale wasn't in fact
recorded _before_ the media hysteria which followed
Arnold's report?


>There are so many more it would bore you to relate them.
>Sufficient proof that Discs were indeed seen.

The first two references are hardly compelling examples,
never mind 'sufficient proof' and the third apparently
isn't even valid.

Perhaps only boring in that respect?

As I noted: "there are relatively few reports of 'disc-
shaped', aerial, objects pre-Arnold and those which do
exist are debatably comparative".


How, also, was Casey able to guess at a claimed "7000
m.p.h. departure speed", if, according to Barry
Greenwood, "Size was difficult to determine without
knowing the distance", see:

http://www.cufon.org/uhr/uhr1.htm

If he didn't know how far away it was, etc...

Are you sure your source material is reliable?


>The Disc doesn't just appear in Christian tradition
>either.

A 'flying disc' doesn't appear in Christian tradition at
all.


>What about ancient India with all their religious
>depictions of the vessels that carried 'sky-people'
>around....
>
>And again, the Chinese called one of them an
>'earthenware vessels' which in my view pre-empts 'flying
>saucers' by 800 years...

Historical mythology and an ambiguous 800 year-old text?

This precisely emphasises the point. Such folklore is
commonly cited, by necessity, as being tangible evidence
why 'flying discs' have a scientific validity and were
not merely a popularised result of Arnold's misconstrued
account.

Where though, pre-Arnold, are the *profusion* of *daily*
'flying disc' reports, such as newspaper front pages
filled with stories of mass-sightings from all over
America [and then consequently outwith] in the weeks
after Arnold's story was misreported?

They simply don't exist beforehand.


>What we all need to ask ourselves is what was it about
>Kenneth Arnold's sighting that caused so much interest?

It's a question we know the answer to; it was feared the
Russians had developed a new 'secret weapon'.


>What IS surprising is why his is considered the first
>credible sighting and description of what later became
>'flying saucers'.

No surprise whatsoever. It *WAS* the first credible
sighting and description of what later became 'flying
saucers'.

Problem being, Arnold hadn't seen any.


This is Arnold's 'flying saucer' [Arnold pictured with an
artist's rendition]:

http://www.voyager.ukonline.co.uk/ftp/sketch_4.jpg


This is a rare and profound sketch, almost certainly
drawn by Arnold [similar to others he made], which I
discovered:

http://www.voyager.ukonline.co.uk/ftp/sketch_0.jpg


For further background about the latter drawing and my
recent announcement about a new, related, research
development see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/2477


James Easton.
 
On 27/3/04, Chant asked:

>What is it about the Triangles that attracts you
>personally, as an area of research? Is it because it is
>a latter-day phenomenon and you can gain access to
>witnesses first hand or is there any other reason? I'm
>intrigued.

Consider, for example, one 'UFO' sighting as reported to
the National UFO Reporting Center [NUFORC]:

On November 27, 1998 at approximately 8:45 p.m. an object
containing 3 lights was seen by myself and two friends.
The object's lights were elliptical in shape, had an
outer ellipse that glowed a dark orange color and
contained a smaller yellow white ellipse. The three
objects moved in perfect unison with one another as they
passed in the sky. They did not vary up or down but the
triangle did tend to flatten as it passed across the
night sky. The stars it passed in front of were blocked
and could not be seen between the 3 lights giving the
indication of sides to the object.

The three lights did not disappear over the horizon (past
trees, houses, etc.) but stayed in the sky and
disappeared into the darkness. The object appeared to be
very high in the sky (10-20 miles) and moved very quickly
as it passed. There was no sound that could be heard.
This was unlike anything ever seen by any of the three of
us. I have made a drawing the next day of what I had seen
the night before and this is available for you to see.
[END]


If seemingly "10-20 miles" above, this is almost
certainly a triplet of reconnaissance satellites [known
about].

Compare with another, contemporary, NUFORC account:

12/10/1998: Traveling on I-81 North heading home. No
traffic around. A triangle shaped object hovered over my
vehicle, just about 20 feet above my car. I slowed to a
stop on the interstate. I thought it was a helicopter. I
got out of my car, the object, which was shaped like a
triangle, traveled about 100 feet in front of me, which
was over the woods. It did not make a sound, then in
about 3 seconds drifted upward, then vanished. It had 3
or 4 lights, but they were extremely bright, and the
outside layer of the craft was a washed metallic/light
metallic.. sorry hard to describe.. when it took off I
thought I heard a hum, slightly. Also I had static
electricity on my body.
[END]

At an apparent altitude of some 20 feet, this is an
entirely different proposition.

It's perhaps not so much that we now have ready access to
contact claimed witnesses via e-mail, or forums such as
here, than the fact they are consequently able to detail
an object which was so ludicrously close overhead.

That, plus some notable comparisons [although not always]
between similar sightings.

In short, these 'triangular UFO' reports offer
significantly more data, even if, as a lovable robot once
remarked, "It does not compute".


James Easton.
 
scotmedia said:
On 27/3/04, Chant asked:

>What is it about the Triangles that attracts you
......
James Easton.

My interest is obviously sparked by my own experience (re. previous post) What gets me about it is the puzzling propulsion system and the odd behaviour. That is to say I cannot concieve a prpulsoin system that fits the sighting and also why are strage vehicles flying about shining lights in peoples faces?

Its been interesting to see many other reports on this thread of experiences also exhibiting these aspects. One last thing I find makes these cases interesting is that they are clearly not explainable as planets / sattellites / aeroplanes ETC
 
Mmn. Thanks James Easton for that titbit about recognaissance satellites flying in formation. Although my own sighting was too low (lights reflected off slick-slate roofs as if passed) it does explain a sighting a close friend of mine had on a ferry crossing to Ireland in the early nineties. There were two other witnesses on deck (night) and it was the first Triangle sighting I'd ever heard of, personally. She admitted that it had been very subjective as she said she was convinced something big and black lay between the lights based on the 'quality of the darkness' between the lights and the sky. Even she felt frustrated by her conviction.

By the way...My other half, a Cynic with a capital C, saw a UFO yesterday evening. He was looking across the sky from one of the highest vantage points in this region and noticed a plane high above - very small with a vapour trail, and directly above it, from his perspective, was an object about two-thirds its length pacing the plane, and then slowing down. There was no vapour trail though. He watched hoping that it would do something dramatic but it didn't before he was called back into work. He thought that perhaps it was a smaller plane closer to him in a different layer of air. Is it possible to have moist vapour-trail forming air, with layers of dry non-vapour-trail forming air inbetween? Is that actually possible? It was a cloudless yet clammy day yesterday and every plane I noticed had a pronounced vapour trail too. Any thoughts as he said it wasn't disc shaped - more tubular, implying a plane. But then discs can look tubular from certain angles.:confused: We get a lot of air-traffic flying over us, sea rescue, military, and commercial and it was the first time he saw something he didn't understand.

edit - and last night was the first time he didn't scoff when I mentioned mine and our son's sighting in February! So things are looking up. Excuse the pun.;)
 
Roughly four years ago, a friend and I were parked, sitting in a car, waiting for a third friend to retrieve something from his house when we both saw a relatively large ( probably the size of an automobile ) shiny, silver 'orb' ( for wont of a better term, ) several hundred feet away, slowly glide across the expanse of desert immediately adjacent to us, then suddenly speed up, and disappear before our eyes. It was highly reflective in the afternoon sun, was perfectly round, and made no sound ( that we could hear ). It had gone by the time our friend had returned to the car, and he looked at us as though we'd been imbibing, but I/we know what we saw, and I've no rational explanation for it. However, having said that, I should like to add: I fully accept the existance of UFOs - I saw one myself - but when it comes down to the semantics ( aliens from other worlds, time travellers, etc., etc., etc.,)...I've no idea. I don't believe any particular theory as regards the origin of UFOs is any more than idle speculation, because we just don't know. And as far as a vast government conspiracy to 'keep the truth' from us - if these are 'ships' ( transports, aircraft, spacecraft, ) as we understand them, and they are from interstellar space, and they have managed that pesky 'faster than light' problem - then I have doubts as to how any government could keep the public from discovering 'the truth'. The 'aliens' would simply land on the white house lawn ( or your lawn, or mine ) and that would be the end of the conspiracy.
 
they would probably be more concerned with staying a secret than our government would be

some recent Majic level happenings have been fairly high-profile... supposedly Dr. Burisch wants to come clean before a federal court about the goings on at area 51 involving biotech warfare... and I think he also wanted to disclose our contact with "birds" (aliens/ufos)

http://www.prweb.com/releases/Apr /0/prweb117400.htm

but this more recent update shows that the media circus may be causing the good Dr. to reconsider

http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/news/dan_burisch_update.htm
 
Back
Top