Ultra-Orthodox Jews

It's not just a religious aspect - the geographical food culture and norms are twined up inside it. I am a Christian who is married to a (cultural) Hindu, we have Sikh, Buddhist and Muslim friends and family and somehow we all live in rural SW England**

The aversion to eating the items proscribed in one's tradition (religiously or otherwise taboo) is literally visceral - we cannot stomach it if we've been brought up to be averse to it since birth. Some sects of Hinduism and Jains are strict vegetarians, some more will eat dairy and eggs, many traditions in Nepal will eat chicken, fish and goat/mutton but not pork or buffalo meat (depending on caste/sect). Of course beef is never on the menu.

My husband on a rational level accepts beef meat is edible but his reaction to the idea of it being served to him is akin to mine about being given a nice plate of witchetty grubs, Kentucky fried kitten or a dolphin steak - my brain could accept it's protein but my mouth and stomach won't. We have to keep quiet about our general piggy-eating when his more Hindu-ey relatives are about, as they're all not 'supposed' to eat it for some caste-related reason.

For some reason many people from a non-Judeo Christian culture assume all Christians are rampantly eating beef all the time, and many I have met have been quite shocked to learn about Christian vegetarianism and similar.

Some Christian sects, IIRC also adhere to the general Kashrut dietary rules. Most Sikhs are veggie or add a bit of chicken or fish. When I'm not sure of anyone's dietary needs I cook Nepali Dal Bhat Tarkari (using plant oils) which is then vegan, dairy-free and gluten free so just about covers everyone but importantly still tastes nice.

So even if a cross-bred pig could provide Kashrut Pork, like you I doubt if it'd catch on - maybe with the younger generation?

Sorry about the long witter but I find comparing cultures/religions and noting the parallels fascinating.

And no, I don't get out much.
I'm a bit hazy on this but I'm under the impression that if you haven't eaten certain foods for a long time or ever you stomach my not have the necessary enzymes to digest them.
 
As for the above mentioned pig, I doubt that many jews, even secular ones, (in Israel at least) would eat it, so ingrained is the belief that pigs are dirty animals that can also harbour worms, even when cooked properly.

Another reason that pigs are avoided, is because of the belief that their skin is similar in character to human skin.
All the major religions have similar reasons for this prohibition, and I believe it has the same origin.
I'm a subscriber to this theory that pigs carry more parasites and diseases than other herd animals and this prohibition had to be enforced somehow, for the common good. Including it in religious teaching was a good way of getting people to follow the rules.
Today, with modern animal husbandry and medical science, these religious rules could be safely dropped. We are in a different world now.
 
All the major religions have similar reasons for this prohibition, and I believe it has the same origin.
I'm a subscriber to this theory that pigs carry more parasites and diseases than other herd animals and this prohibition had to be enforced somehow, for the common good. Including it in religious teaching was a good way of getting people to follow the rules.
Today, with modern animal husbandry and medical science, these religious rules could be safely dropped. We are in a different world now.
My thought on pigs -and this would not be a Jewish concern because it involves Jesus - is that swine have been seen as unclean since Jesus cast out demons from a man and then drove them into a herd of swine.
 
and then drove them into a herd of swine.

Well, he was a Jew, operating in a Jewish context! The usual question is why there was a herd of swine there*?

I like to think it was a translation thing and they were unclean and unidentified whotsits! :)

*Area was swarming with Greeks and Romans, who kept them. That seems the standard answer. So they got the devil-meat in their butties!
 
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Well, he was a Jew, operating in a Jewish context! The usual question is why there was a herd of swine there*?
I meant that the western/Christian (not sure if this is exactly the distinction) view on pig meat being unhealthy and unclean was due to this episode in the NT.

Interesting take on the interpretation of "swine". I hadn't thought of that.
 
All the major religions have similar reasons for this prohibition, and I believe it has the same origin.
I'm a subscriber to this theory that pigs carry more parasites and diseases than other herd animals and this prohibition had to be enforced somehow, for the common good. Including it in religious teaching was a good way of getting people to follow the rules.
Today, with modern animal husbandry and medical science, these religious rules could be safely dropped. We are in a different world now.
Yes, it stems from a time when it was very easy to die (or at least be seriously ill) from eating pork, but it's no different of a principal than certain religions (or factions of a religion) who ban (or discourage the use of) say, the internet or driving a car, or using electricity on a certain day.

Saying that we are in a different world now makes no difference to the people who want to carry on practising their dogmas that originate from hundreds of years ago.
 
Nice anecdote on today's Quora about a young mum's encounter with an orthodox Jewish guy:

"Ruby and I were on the Southern State Parkway when it became obvious we had a flat tire. There's no shoulder on the side of that highway, so I pulled off onto the grass, and, almost immediately, a black Jeep pulled off the highway in front of us, just as I was looking for the phone number for AAA.
A young man wearing a yarmulke stepped out of the Jeep into the 96 degree heat and walked over to the passenger side window of my car. He said he had lots of tools in his car and could change my tire for me. Really? 'Yes,' he said. 'I see you have a child in the back, and, if this happened to my mother, I'd like to think someone would do the same for her.'
So, as he's changing the tire, we started chatting and he told me there's a group of people in his Orthodox Jewish community who do volunteer roadside assistance - for anyone and everyone. There's also a volunteer ambulance. I said I've never heard of such a thing before. And he said, 'Yeah, you only hear the bad stuff about us.'
He quickly and adeptly finished changing my tire, and, as I was thanking him profusely, I asked if there was anything I could do to thank him. He responded with a smile, 'Zero.' I got back in the car, crying.
Ruby asked me why I was crying, and I said they were happy tears and tears of relief. So super scary to think about how much worse the day could have been for us, and such an amazingly kind person who came to our rescue. That kid has his ticket to heaven written in stone. "

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Nice anecdote on today's Quora about a young mum's encounter with an orthodox Jewish guy:

"Ruby and I were on the Southern State Parkway when it became obvious we had a flat tire. There's no shoulder on the side of that highway, so I pulled off onto the grass, and, almost immediately, a black Jeep pulled off the highway in front of us, just as I was looking for the phone number for AAA.
A young man wearing a yarmulke stepped out of the Jeep into the 96 degree heat and walked over to the passenger side window of my car. He said he had lots of tools in his car and could change my tire for me. Really? 'Yes,' he said. 'I see you have a child in the back, and, if this happened to my mother, I'd like to think someone would do the same for her.'
So, as he's changing the tire, we started chatting and he told me there's a group of people in his Orthodox Jewish community who do volunteer roadside assistance - for anyone and everyone. There's also a volunteer ambulance. I said I've never heard of such a thing before. And he said, 'Yeah, you only hear the bad stuff about us.'
He quickly and adeptly finished changing my tire, and, as I was thanking him profusely, I asked if there was anything I could do to thank him. He responded with a smile, 'Zero.' I got back in the car, crying.
Ruby asked me why I was crying, and I said they were happy tears and tears of relief. So super scary to think about how much worse the day could have been for us, and such an amazingly kind person who came to our rescue. That kid has his ticket to heaven written in stone. "

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I was once walking from a town in Israel to get to where I wanted to go, or at least the bottom of the mountain (where I knew I'd get a lift up from there).

I wasn't hitchhiking, just walking.

I just measured it on google maps - it's 9 miles and it was 35c (I was much fitter back then).

When I was on the last 2 mile stretch, a car came towards me, went past and then stopped.
It then turned around and pulled up next to me.

Three young soldiers, 2 guys and a woman.
Asked me where I was going, took me there, then carried on the way that they were originally going.

To be fair though, pretty much everywhere in the middle east is like this and if you were in difficulty (like with the car problems mentioned above) it wouldn't be long before someone, whether Jew or Arab, stopped to help you.
 
Very trivial question. How are skullcaps, yarmulke or otherwise, kept on?

I'm thinking hair grips? Is there a particular form of pin or grip? that would be a lovely piece of material culture!

Maybe this is one for the fashion thread.
 
How are skullcaps, yarmulke or otherwise, kept on?

The Jewish lads I taught were always losing their kippas, as they called them, especially during vigorous ball-games. They did not always treat them with great respect and took great delight in plonking one on my head, whenever they could*! I never saw any clips on them but I think older gents with thinning hair may have secured them that way!

*Ultra-Orthodox they were but a most unruly bunch! :doh:
 
Very trivial question. How are skullcaps, yarmulke or otherwise, kept on?

I'm thinking hair grips? Is there a particular form of pin or grip? that would be a lovely piece of material culture!

Maybe this is one for the fashion thread.
They use these:
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More about the Lev Tahor Cult.

When Mexican police raided a self-styled Jewish sect, former members hoped it would spell the end of the group, which has been accused of crimes against children. Instead, the case collapsed and the sect recovered - but not before details about the cloistered community were exposed, including its plans for mass slaughter if outside authorities intervened. One former member, who recently fled, spoke to the BBC about his ordeal.

Warning: This story contains details of physical and sexual abuse

When Yisrael Amir got married, he and his bride stood under the chupah, the traditional Jewish wedding canopy, surrounded by members of their community. But what should be a couple's happiest day was for them a nightmare. Yisrael and his wife, Malke (not her real name), were both 16 and had met there and then for the first time. The marriage had been organised by leaders of the group which they had been brought into as children. The group is Lev Tahor, Hebrew for Pure Heart, which claims to follow a fundamentalist version of Judaism. Former members though, along with an Israeli court among others, say it is nothing but a cult.

"We had no choice," Yisrael, now 22, tells me as we sit and talk in the back yard of his aunt's house, just south of Tel Aviv. "The rabbi called me into his office and said, 'Next week you're getting married. If you refuse you get punished'. My sister was 13 and they forced her to marry a 19-year-old. She was crying. She cried so much they punished her by banning her from speaking for a year. She could not say a word - not ask for food, not ask for the toilet, nothing." ...

But, according to Yisrael, there was much worse.

"I saw every day Shlomo Helbrans [the founder of Lev Tahor] and another leader take boys in their room, boys as young as eight, then afterwards he sent them to the mikveh [ritual bath used for purification]. I didn't understand what he did with them. Now I know."
Yisrael says boys and girls told him they were sexually abused - and raped.

The BBC tried to speak to alleged child victims of rape who have left the group, but none were willing to talk. A US-based support group, Lev Tahor Survivors (LTS), told the BBC there are child rape victims among its members, while a source involved in an official investigation says Central American authorities have sworn statements from ex-members that rapes were committed. ...

This is what happened to Yisrael. At the age of 12, he was taken from their home in Israel, along with his six siblings, to join the group in Guatemala City by their father, Shaul. Yisrael says Lev Tahor had falsely promised his family that life in Guatemala would be paradise, with animals for the children to play with.

Instead "it was a complete shock," he says. "Everyone was separated from each other. Children had to sleep on stone floors. We were woken up about 3am every day, then prayers all day long, no food, no water, no talking to other children. If the rabbi [Helbrans] lectured us, it would go on for hours. Sometimes I would fall asleep standing up. Every single thing was controlled. You could only go to the toilet when they said you could. We had no education. We did not even study Torah [holiest books of the Jewish Bible] or Talmud [a principal Jewish book of laws] because that would have opened our minds - just Helbrans' writings, which we had to learn by heart. We did not go to sleep until 11pm." ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63942615

The Lev Tahor sect again, this time in Guatemala.

Authorities in Guatemala have resisted efforts by members of a Jewish sect to recapture 160 children rescued from its premises.

The children were taken into care on Friday when police raided a farm used by the Lev Tahor movement, which is under investigation in several countries for serious sexual offences.

Interior Minister Francisco Jimenez said they were allegedly being abused by a member of the sect.

But on Sunday, sect members broke into a care centre where they were being held in an attempt to get them back, leading to scuffles with police.

The Lev Tahor sect is known for extremist practices and imposing a strict regime on its followers. It advocates child marriage, inflicts harsh punishments even for minor transgressions and requires women and girls as young as three years old to completely cover up with robes.
The sect accuses the Guatemalan authorities of religious persecution.

The community settled in Mexico and Guatemala between 2014 and 2017. In 2022, members of the sect were arrested in a police operation in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas, but they were later freed for lack of evidence. ...

The Jewish Community of Guatemala has issued a statement disowning the sect, describing it as foreign to its own organisation.

It expressed support for the Guatemalan authorities in carrying out necessary investigations "to protect the lives and integrity of minors and other vulnerable groups that may be at risk".

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cnv3291z9p2o
 
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