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Ultra-Orthodox Jews

As some of you will know, Judaism has as one of it's 13 principles of faith, a focus on the Messiah/Messianic Era.

This means that major world events are analysed as to how they fit in with the period of turbulence that is expected to come before the Messiah.
This is hard to isolate, because the majority of the history of mankind has been one of wars and earthquakes, famines and plagues.
But the major events of - the Holocaust, the return of many Jews to Israel and the founding of the new state, space flight, the internet, computing and genetic medicine, have made a general level of expectation amongst Jewish eschatologists.

Events are assessed as to when in the calendar they happen and what else happened around that date in previous years, and how events might be the fulfilment of biblical prophecy, plus there is study of the Gematria (numerology of Hebrew letters) of key phrases linked to world events.

No one has come out and said "This is definitely the moment".
But the concurrence of no clear government in Israel after three successive elections, the Covid 19 pandemic, worldwide stock market fall, the continued Iranian nuclear ambitions, and the recent Trump Middle East Peace Plan - all this has lead to Jewish eschatologists being on tenterhooks more than at any time since 9/11.
 
Following on from the above post, we approach the Passover (Pesach) festival, takign place this secular year in April 8th - 16th.
It is a festival in the Jewish calendar with a very strong content about the Exodus from Egypt, the future redemption and the Messiah.
Some parallels between conditions before the Exodus and the conditions now have been pointed out.
This has heightened the speculation even further.
 
Last night in Jerusalem at midnight the Shofar was sounded.
This is extremely unusual, because this musical instrument, usually made of a ram's horn, is used for specific occurrences.
That is, the mornings of the month of Elul, which is late summer/early autumn, leading up to the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashona).
And it is sounded on that New Year, and once again ten days later just before the end of the Day of Repentance (Yom Kippur).
It is a call to repent.

So for it to be sounded outside of these times (unless someone is practicing it indoors) is a rare and emergency measure for repentance.
It is not done capriciously.
This time it was sounded in response to the Covid 19 outbreak.


You can hear it on this link.


The Shofar has perhaps only been sounded on three previous occasions since 1948 in response to emergencies, each time in a plane that flew over Israel - 1991 The first Gulf War, 1996 Terror attacks 2009 Swine Flu.


https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3760270,00.html

It was also sounded publicly 1967 at the Western Wall when it was recaptured.
 
LordRsmacker,

We do not permit political point-making on the board.

You may be wholly right, you may be wholly wrong or perhaps you're somewhere in between, but we won't be having the debate here.

Your post and a reply to it have been removed.
 
Wouldn't the jewish messiah need to show up, before it can be the end of days?
 
Wouldn't the jewish messiah need to show up, before it can be the end of days?

The Jewish Messiah is for all humanity.
Jews believe that when he arrives, the world radically changes rather than ends outright..
Exactly how, and when, is conjecture.
But generally will be an era of peace and improved morality.
 
After ignoring warnings, Israeli ultra-Orthodox hit by virus.

Early this week, the streets of the central Israeli city of Bnei Brak were bustling with shoppers as ultra-Orthodox residents, obeying their religious leaders, ignored pleas to stay home in the face of the coronavirus threat.

By Friday, Bnei Brak had become the country's worst hot spot and now resembles a ghost town. The military will soon be sending troops in to assist local authorities. One expert estimated that nearly 40% of the city's population might already have been infected.

The city has become a lightning rod for anger and frustration by some secular Israelis who allege insular Haredi communities — with disproportionately high numbers of confirmed cases — are undermining national efforts to contain the virus.

The pandemic also has threatened to upend deep-seated customs in the religious world, including blind obedience to religious leaders and the belief that religious studies and traditions take precedence over the rules of a modern state.

The crisis is rooted in a combination of factors. Israel’s ultra-Orthodox tend to live in poor, crowded neighborhoods where sickness can quickly spread. Synagogues, the centerpiece of social life, bring men together to pray and socialize in small spaces.

https://news.yahoo.com/ignoring-warnings-israeli-ultra-orthodox-064304057.html

maximus otter
 
The Jewish Messiah is for all humanity.
Jews believe that when he arrives, the world radically changes rather than ends outright..
Exactly how, and when, is conjecture.
But generally will be an era of peace and improved morality.
Sigh of course. Dont suppose it could instead be a world of better treatment of others.
 
This won't end well. Vid at link.

Some extremist Jews reveal that they've been dressing as Muslims to enter and worship at a bitterly contested holy site, Temple Mount or the al-Aqsa Mosque compound.

After Israel captured and occupied East Jerusalem in 1967, a delicate status quo remained: non-Muslims can visit the complex but must not pray there.

The BBC has been speaking to Jewish Israeli activist, Raphael Morris, who leads a fringe group called "Returning to the Mount", which advocates prayer at the site he calls Temple Mount and to a Palestinian Muslim activist, Hanady Halawani who says she will defend al-Aqsa Mosque.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-60291670
 
This won't end well. Vid at link.

Some extremist Jews reveal that they've been dressing as Muslims to enter and worship at a bitterly contested holy site, Temple Mount or the al-Aqsa Mosque compound.

As a Jew, I believe it will end in the best and prophesised outcome, which is a house of prayer for all humanity.

Note:

Not all Jews will go up to the Temple Mount.
Some say we are not in a state of purity that allows it.
Others will go up, but only walk in certain places that were outside the inner sanctum environs, the Holy of Holies, and it's surrounding courtyards and plazas, which were for the ritually pure Levites and Priests only.
The closest large place of prayer to the Holy of Holies which does not require such a state of purity is the Western Wall, hence it's importance.

Note Two,:

Here's a Muslim dressed as a Jew, dressed as a Muslim dressed as a Jew (see the film "The Infidel.")

MV5BNWI3ZTVlMzEtM2M5Zi00YzcwLTllNmUtYTFhYmFlOTM3ZmJlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzU1NzE3NTg@._V1_QL75_UX50...jpg
 
This Lev Tahor sect is not practicing Judaism in a conventional way.

The head-to-toe covering for women is actually against Jewish teachings and is too extreme.

There are whole books on this subject, called in Hebrew "Tzniut", which basically means "Modesty".
Whilst traditional Jewish female clothing may seem quite restrictive by mainstream Western standards (i.e. skirts which are ankle length and long sleeve tops), face veils are not required and are actually seen as an ego trip...whereby someone is trying to be "Holier than thou".

There do exist a few very pious holy men and Kabbalists who avoid looking at any women other than their wives, but these are a special case.

The Lev Tahor sect will have amongst it some genuine but misguided people, and some innocent children, but is also a cover for criminals who are on the run.

More on the Lev Tahor sect.

Children and older teenagers have been removed from the jungle compound of a Jewish sect in Mexico following a raid by police, the BBC has learned.

It took place against the Lev Tahor group, which was investigated on suspicion of trafficking minors. The children and teenagers are being flown to Israel where they have extended families.

Lev Tahor (Hebrew for Pure Heart) is known for extremist practices and imposing a strict regime on members. It advocates child marriage, inflicts harsh punishments for even minor transgressions and requires women and girls as young as three years old to completely cover up with robes. The stricture has earned the group the nickname the Jewish Taliban because of seeming similarities with the dress code enforced by the Sunni Muslim extremist group which controls Afghanistan.

On Friday morning, police made their way into the compound 11 miles (17.5km) north of Tapachula in Chiapas state.

A source connected to the operation said the boys and girls were quickly separated from the rest of the group due to fears their lives could be at risk from members trying to prevent them from being removed. ...

While the group is often described as ultra-Orthodox, it follows its own sets of rules and has been declared a "dangerous cult" by an Israeli court. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-62372365
 
More on the Lev Tahor sect.

Children and older teenagers have been removed from the jungle compound of a Jewish sect in Mexico following a raid by police, the BBC has learned.

It took place against the Lev Tahor group, which was investigated on suspicion of trafficking minors. The children and teenagers are being flown to Israel where they have extended families.

Lev Tahor (Hebrew for Pure Heart) is known for extremist practices and imposing a strict regime on members. It advocates child marriage, inflicts harsh punishments for even minor transgressions and requires women and girls as young as three years old to completely cover up with robes. The stricture has earned the group the nickname the Jewish Taliban because of seeming similarities with the dress code enforced by the Sunni Muslim extremist group which controls Afghanistan.

On Friday morning, police made their way into the compound 11 miles (17.5km) north of Tapachula in Chiapas state.

A source connected to the operation said the boys and girls were quickly separated from the rest of the group due to fears their lives could be at risk from members trying to prevent them from being removed. ...

While the group is often described as ultra-Orthodox, it follows its own sets of rules and has been declared a "dangerous cult" by an Israeli court. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-62372365

The cult members have escaped.

About 20 members of a Jewish sect held at a facility in Mexico after a police raid on their jungle base have fled.

Footage showed men, women, and children streaming out of the site in Huixtla, in the west, on Wednesday night.They had been there since the raid last Friday when two members were arrested on suspicion of human trafficking and serious sexual offences.

The sect, Lev Tahor, is known for extremist practices and imposing a strict regime on its followers. It advocates child marriage, inflicts harsh punishments even for minor transgressions and requires women and girls as young as three years old to completely cover up with robes.

Local media said members of the group had been protesting against their detention since their arrival, including rioting and assaulting personnel.

Video from Reuters news agency shows the detainees, dressed in gold, grey and white robes, forcing their way past two guards at a gate as one of their members holds it open. One of the guards trying to hold them back falls down and the group climb over him as they make their escape. A youth is seen turning and kicking the guard as he lies on the ground.

It is unclear where the group has gone. Associated Press said they were collected by a lorry and headed towards the border with Guatemala, while news site El Heraldo de México said they went by foot for several miles before disappearing into the night.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63086207
 
The cult members have escaped.

About 20 members of a Jewish sect held at a facility in Mexico after a police raid on their jungle base have fled.

Footage showed men, women, and children streaming out of the site in Huixtla, in the west, on Wednesday night.They had been there since the raid last Friday when two members were arrested on suspicion of human trafficking and serious sexual offences.

The sect, Lev Tahor, is known for extremist practices and imposing a strict regime on its followers. It advocates child marriage, inflicts harsh punishments even for minor transgressions and requires women and girls as young as three years old to completely cover up with robes.

Local media said members of the group had been protesting against their detention since their arrival, including rioting and assaulting personnel.

Video from Reuters news agency shows the detainees, dressed in gold, grey and white robes, forcing their way past two guards at a gate as one of their members holds it open. One of the guards trying to hold them back falls down and the group climb over him as they make their escape. A youth is seen turning and kicking the guard as he lies on the ground.

It is unclear where the group has gone. Associated Press said they were collected by a lorry and headed towards the border with Guatemala, while news site El Heraldo de México said they went by foot for several miles before disappearing into the night.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63086207

The saga continues.

Leaders of a Jewish sect arrested on suspicion of human trafficking and sex crimes in Mexico have been freed.

Their lawyer said the pair, who are foreign citizens, were released on Thursday night for lack of evidence. It followed a mass breakout of about 20 members of the sect held in a government facility after the raid on their jungle base last week..

The sect, Lev Tahor, is known for extremist practices and imposing a strict regime on its followers. It advocates child marriage, inflicts harsh punishments even for minor transgressions and requires women and girls as young as three years old to completely cover up with robes.

A source who was involved in the operation against the group told the BBC the decision to free the pair undermined "the impressive and untainted legal work accomplished by the Attorney General's Office and the police prior to and during the raid".

The two men had been under arrest since the raid on 23 September. Israel's foreign ministry identified them as an Israeli and a Canadian citizen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63091720
 
To lighten the tone of this thread, one of the least expected things I've ever seen was a family of (I'm assuming here by their dress code) Hasidic Jews swimming in the Kennet and Avon Canal by the George pub in Bathampton, near Bath.

I think it was only men and boys, but it was very much out of the ordinary, partly because I've never seen anybody swimming in the canal; there's a swimming area (Warleigh Weir) in the River Avon a couple of miles away, but in the canal, never.
 
To lighten the tone of this thread, one of the least expected things I've ever seen was a family of (I'm assuming here by their dress code) Hasidic Jews swimming in the Kennet and Avon Canal by the George pub in Bathampton, near Bath.

I think it was only men and boys, but it was very much out of the ordinary, partly because I've never seen anybody swimming in the canal; there's a swimming area (Warleigh Weir) in the River Avon a couple of miles away, but in the canal, never.
Canals are usually quite dirty.
 
I usually go the other way when people describe themselves as “ultra “ or “ orthodox “ which can apply to many religions or communities.

For example even though it is against Utah’s laws, it is quietly known that thousands of Mormons still have several wives or many females living with one male in their self made communities.

Stories of male children being thrown out on their own when they reach puberty or young females being horribly abused sexually and mentally.

I don’t think this is a one religion or culture “ thing “.

In my southern Bible Belt area “there is usually scandalous gossip somewhere about some religious person doing wrong.
 
Ultra Orthodox in terms of Judaism is a label largely used by others to describe a certain grouping within the Jewish community who are stringent about the applications of the religious laws of daily life.

It is not a label many would use of themselves.
 
I'm not sure many people would call themselves ultra-anything when it comes to belief. I think it's the type of label usually imposed by outsiders who think the ultra-x have gone too far in their literal interpretation of the rules
'Ultra' is indeed considered offensive by members of this form of Judaism. 'Haredi' or 'strictly-orthodox' is preferred.
 
'Ultra' is indeed considered offensive by members of this form of Judaism. 'Haredi' or 'strictly-orthodox' is preferred.

Thinking about it, isn't it kind of a tautology to be 'strictly' or 'ultra' orthodox. Surely, you're either orthodox or you're not - are there any grey areas that allow for nuance? Isn't it s bit like saying nearly infinite, or almost absolute?
 
Thinking about it, isn't it kind of a tautology to be 'strictly' or 'ultra' orthodox. Surely, you're either orthodox or you're not - are there any grey areas that allow for nuance? Isn't it s bit like saying nearly infinite, or almost absolute?
I think it depends on the constantly changing preferences for being either a lumper or a splitter. Lumpers would agree with you. I am agnostic about the whole lumper-splitter usage, and use either depending on which will be useful to the analysis. Both true lumpers and true splitters consider me an apostate, and both have named a price on my head. This is why I live in hiding in a retirement community.

Damn! I forgot to take my meds this morning, as my attendant has just reminded me. :)

....The existence of a tautology depends on the definition of the categories (logical components) and the goal of the analysis. Looking for distinctions among different Jewish orthodox groups is splitting; and in this way looking at ultra-orthodox is useful. Looking at Jewish orthodoxy as a whole, perhaps to compare to Christian or Muslim orthodoxy is lumping.
 
Ultra Orthodox in terms of Judaism is a label largely used by others to describe a certain grouping within the Jewish community who are stringent about the applications of the religious laws of daily life.

It is not a label many would use of themselves.
Yes agreed, the sects themselves tend to describe themselves as followers of one or another rabbi, but having grown up in a community that includes Jews from reform (and actually there are now groups that consider themselves more-than-reform, generally having to do with inclusiveness) to conservative to orthodox to "ultra" orthodox, there are definable differences regardless of what the outside world calls them, and the differences are important in consideration of marketing to them and in political analysis.
 
Thinking about it, isn't it kind of a tautology to be 'strictly' or 'ultra' orthodox. Surely, you're either orthodox or you're not - are there any grey areas that allow for nuance? Isn't it s bit like saying nearly infinite, or almost absolute?
I think the difference (as far as they're concerned) is that 'ultra' has connotations of extremism. But yes there is a wide difference in beliefs.
For example, some Haredi will only associate with other Haredi, some with non-Haredi and others even with non-Jews, so nothing is black and white as far as any term goes.
And perhaps some words have slightly different meanings in different languages.

@Victory will be able to give us more info I think.
 
I think the difference (as far as they're concerned) is that 'ultra' has connotations of extremism. But yes there is a wide difference in beliefs.
For example, some Haredi will only associate with other Haredi, some with non-Haredi and others even with non-Jews, so nothing is black and white as far as any term goes.
And perhaps some words have slightly different meanings in different languages.

@Victory will be able to give us more info I think.

Yup, agreed.

To be honest, my post was more about the odd way we sometimes use language than it was about the specifics of the religion.

As Victory has already suggested, people generally don't really call themselves any such thing; it's another generalisation, used by others, and like most generalisations, not always terribly useful.
 
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