Unacknowledged

hunck

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#1
Here's the full version of Unacknowledged if you've got 1hr 40mins to spare. The trailer was linked in the Marilyn Monroe thread but that's only a tiny [& pretty speculative] part of it.

It's by Stephen Greer & is about his disclosure project which I think has been running for years - UFOs, aliens, black projects consuming billions of $. Lots of random clips & talking heads but there's also some pretty heavyweight people from ex CIA, military, NASA astronauts, even a US president plus some UK ex military/intelligence, admitting to the reality of aliens. Implies technology captured & developed by the big defence contractors in 'off the books' black projects. Some UFOs are 'definitely' alien, others advanced military craft.

Leads on to the 'people really running things' & it's not necessarily the President who is just a temporary employee & doesn't have to know about some things. Gets a bit carried away with speculating false flag alien invasion at the end. It's speculative by it's very nature and goes off the deep end at times but there seems no doubt about the huge 'black projects' budget which is largely unaccounted for.

You get the drift. We've all heard this sort of stuff before but as I said, there's some heavyweight people in it. It's not going to convince you but it's interesting.
 

GNC

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#2
I dunno, space alien conspiracy theories are looking increasingly passé with each news bulletin. Do you think there's a weird kind of comfort in believing there's nothing we can do because the aliens have the world all wrapped up? That sense of futility also means we have the advantage over the sheeple of being in the know when the alien overlords play their hand. The old "told you so" gambit?
 

hunck

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#3
It's not about aliens being in control or feeling superior. It's about government secrecy & control of information in the UFO field & huge black project budgets. On the other hand maybe governments are completely open & up front about everything & there's nothing to see.
 

GNC

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#4
If anyone's superior it's the governments, which lends those civilians who think they've uncovered their secrets their self-imagined cachet. It's so easy to spread misinformation that the subject of UFO provides a useful smokescreen because when someone starts going on about them with complete seriousness, they lose a lot of credibility with a large number of the general population and the actual black budget projects are protected.

It's like government MIBs asking random questions to those they have been questioning, what's your star sign and all that, it makes the witnesses and investigators, armchair or otherwise, sound like kooks.
 

eburacum

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#5
Lots of random clips & talking heads but there's also some pretty heavyweight people from ex CIA, military, NASA astronauts, even a US president plus some UK ex military/intelligence, admitting to the reality of aliens.
I've bolded the one controversial word in your post; none of these 'heavyweight people' are 'admitting to the reality of aliens'; all they are doing is stating their interpretation of the facts, which looks increasingly mistaken as time goes by.

Yes, there are almost certainly alien lifeforms in the universe, and no, they almost certainly have nothing to do with the UFO phenomenon.
 

dr wu

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#6
I've bolded the one controversial word in your post; none of these 'heavyweight people' are 'admitting to the reality of aliens'; all they are doing is stating their interpretation of the facts, which looks increasingly mistaken as time goes by.

Yes, there are almost certainly alien lifeforms in the universe, and no, they almost certainly have nothing to do with the UFO phenomenon.

I'm curious what you think the 'ufo phenomenon' represents (we might have done this dance before...? ).....is it simply misidentifications over all these years, or is something truly unknown interacting with mankind?
 

Mythopoeika

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#7
I've bolded the one controversial word in your post; none of these 'heavyweight people' are 'admitting to the reality of aliens'; all they are doing is stating their interpretation of the facts, which looks increasingly mistaken as time goes by.

Yes, there are almost certainly alien lifeforms in the universe, and no, they almost certainly have nothing to do with the UFO phenomenon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer
 

eburacum

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#8
Hellyer has no evidence whatsoever (except perhaps his own sighting). All the rest is his overactive imagination. He is not 'admitting' that aliens are coming to Earth; he is stating his belief, which is a different thing.
 

eburacum

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#9
I'm curious what you think the 'ufo phenomenon' represents (we might have done this dance before...? ).....is it simply misidentifications over all these years, or is something truly unknown interacting with mankind?
There will always be UFOs. When we eventually meet an alien species, I confidently expect two things - one is that the UFO phenomenon has nothing to do with them, and the other is that they will have UFOs of their own.
 

dr wu

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#10
There will always be UFOs. When we eventually meet an alien species, I confidently expect two things - one is that the UFO phenomenon has nothing to do with them, and the other is that they will have UFOs of their own.
Hmm...I once knew someone on another forum who said almost exactly the same thing all the time.
But that doesn't address what you think they might be.
;)
 

eburacum

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#11
Come on. Each report has a different explanation. But it is often difficult, or even impossible, to find out what that explanation is. That's why they are UFOs. And that is what makes them interesting.
 

dannycheveaux1

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#12
Steven Greer gets a lot of negative comments in FT (as do UFOs in general). Instead of taking any particular member's opinion as the definitive point of view and so close out most posts in this forum, I would urge any Fortean who has lost their enthusiasm for the subject to watch a few of the Sirius Disclosure Witness Testimony series of videos on YouTube with an open mind. Please, put Steven Greer himself to one side and listen to what the people involved in the events say they witnessed. Yes, it is a "succession of talking heads" and that's what witness testimony is.
 

Zeke Newbold

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#13
Steven Greer gets a lot of negative comments in FT (as do UFOs in general). Instead of taking any particular member's opinion as the definitive point of view and so close out most posts in this forum, I would urge any Fortean who has lost their enthusiasm for the subject to watch a few of the Sirius Disclosure Witness Testimony series of videos on YouTube with an open mind. Please, put Steven Greer himself to one side and listen to what the people involved in the events say they witnessed. Yes, it is a "succession of talking heads" and that's what witness testimony is.
I welcome the gist of this post but you really do have to put Greer to one side to get anything out of those videos. I don't know all that much about the guy, but I trust my instincts - and he reminds me very much of the Guy-in-the-Bar-who-tells-you-he-trained to-Be-A-Tibetan priest and-Now-Works-As a-Skydiving -nstructor. Then he starts telling you to punch him in the chest...

I haven't lost my enthusiasm for the subject, and I think that a lot of the `F.T` dismissal of it is rather shallow, but you really do have to consciously ignore some of the characters that pile on to anything UFO related to stay interested.
 

skinny

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#14
Please, put Steven Greer himself to one side and listen to what the people involved in the events say they witnessed. Yes, it is a "succession of talking heads" and that's what witness testimony is.
Yup. That's what I do. Their accounts are of interest to me, some more than others, but as to what they witnessed - that is entirely up to your subjective level of imagination and/or credulity. I believe none of them when they state they saw ET carcasses laying around dead on the arroyo after their metallic craft crashed for no known reason after successfully negotiating it across interstellar distances. OTOH, people who state that they worked under the previous chief of MJ12 and have insights into the state power apparatus I can accept, but that, IMO, has zip to do with unexplained aerial and light phenomenon. It's the automatic association of the two that turns off the more rational thinking members, myself included.
you really do have to consciously ignore some of the characters that pile on to anything UFO related to stay interested
Yup. I ignore them all. I stay interested by going way outdoors on clear moonless nights and looking out there. Never seen anything unexplainable myself. But I'm out there looking. A lot.
 
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#15
Yup. I ignore them all. I stay interested by going way outdoors on clear moonless nights and looking out there. Never seen anything unexplainable myself. But I'm out there looking. A lot.
^this^

One might be more able to watch these types of videos with an open mind if they were presented with an open mind - the witnesses themselves relay heavily on biasing the watcher/listener by speculating continuously 'it must be aliens/conspiracy/etc....', if they presented the known facts, didn't bias the video's title and accounts with speculation along the lines of; "We don't know so it must be 'insert wild speculation of choice'".

Or, avoid introductions that present the testimony as establishing facts, when it does nothing of the sort. "This proves aliens exist", when no-one has ever proved there are aliens. This is fairy-tale science, it’s circular reasoning, using the conclusion of an argument as a premise of that same argument; aliens must exist because it must be aliens, so aliens exist…

So; once I've waded through biased titles, biased introductions and the witnesses’ speculation, I regret I do tend to lose interest. I’ve said it before: if the goal is to have everyone believe the material, double down on a rigorous proper presentation of the actual evidence without trying to ‘lead the witness’.

If someone doesn’t want to do that, they’ve got no justification for then banging on about everyone being close-minded.
 

gattino

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#16
Just watched this documentary on Netflix last night. It's certainly persuasive...but i always think how im persuaded by every new book and documentary naming a different Jack the Ripper from the previous one, or by another take on the Kennedy assassination. They are always totally convincing for the same reason...they include information (which you accept without checking to be accurate) that's supportive of their claim or theory and omit any information that undermines or is counter to it.

That doesn't mean one of them isn't right - or that this particular documentary isn't explosively true - just that I recognise that being convincing shouldn't necessarily convince me!

For me the fatal flaw in the "they have ufos and are keeping it secret" lore is the "they" part of it. It all depends on either all of these craft (if they crashed in the 40s did they suddenly stop crashing? If not they must still occassionally do so) crashing entirely in territory under the control and sway of the United States, or else on an international and intergovernmental conspiracy between all nations, of different and opposing economic, political and theological leanings. Have none ever fallen into the hands of Iran or China or Sadaam's Iraq or North Korea? That seems implausibly convenient.

Yet if they have come into contact with states outside the American orbit, then the fact none of them have released anything about it at any time would seem to suggest a cross-ideological agreement between all governments. But such an agreement or conspiracy would itself undermine one of the central claims of the documentary...that the American Government per se isn't behind it, but rather big business and the shadowy deep state. Who then is China or the Ayatollah conspiring with in America to keep the silence?

It would also be worth considering that if capitalists and communists, secularists and theocrats, liberals and tyrants are all in agreement to keep it secret from the public, then maybe they have a point!
 

feinman

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#17
I don't know what to think about Greer, and I've seen "Unacknowledged". I also have problems with the alien bodies idea, and am perplexed by occupant accounts. I tend to believe they are on the device side of the spectrum vs. sci-fi starship with aliens walking around. That said, creating android devices to interact with us would be within the capabilities of visitors, especially if they had been here for a long time.
There is that very old article about the two folks terrorized for a bit by that "object dressed in white"; I suspect that was some kind of device.
 
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