Uniforms - Especially Redcoats

[Frideswide]

I was told, in a very authoritative manner at primary school, late 1960s, that british soldiers wore red because they were so brave they fought on having been wounded and it meant the blood didn't show. I was reminded of this by our all too brief appreciation for the film Barry Lyndon recently.

At the time I dismissed this as utter bobbins on the grounds that my Uncle Tim (infantry in Lybia) wore green camouflage whenever I'd seen him in uniform. I do now accept that a visual inspection of my Uncle Tim wasn't a solid basis for extrapolation to all branches of the british armed forces throughout their history.

But I have heard the "red shows no blood" argument on several occasions. Is this widespread?

And, as red was worn, what dates? in what theatres? all services?

I did go to an Oxford May Ball on the arm of a military gentleman in his dress redcoat (red coat) and white breeches. It was a memorable evening for all the right reasons.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I think it was because red was the cheapest colour and making the uniforms went to the lowest bidder.

 

[escargot]

Butchers traditionally wear blue aprons because blue doesn't show blood as red, it just looks darker. Works better than red.

A story I heard about the Redcoats' uniforms was that the colour stood out from any background, making an advancing army a more fearsome sight. The concept of wearing a camouflage design was rejected as cowardly.

The later use of khaki was explained beautifully by Lance Corporal Jones in Dad's Army.

 

[EnolaGaia]

I'd heard / read the 'so blood doesn't show' explanation in childhood, but ...

There is no known basis for the myth that red coats were favoured because they did not show blood stains. Blood does in fact show on red clothing as a black stain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_coat_(military_uniform)

Having said that ... Based on relevant conversations over the years with military historians, I think there's a much more plausible explanation ...

At the time of the red coat's formal adoption (New Model Army ordinance; 1645) and up through the 19th century, battles were fought face-to-face between masses of soldiers arranged in formations. Battlefields were essentially giant chessboards on which these formations were placed and maneuvered. In the smoke and chaos of a battle, it could prove difficult to discern who was who, who was where, and what was happening. This was a big problem for top-level commanders, who typically sat off at a distance and who had only very limited and slow capabilities for communicating with the front-line troops.

The key problem was situation awareness in the heat of battle. One of the only available ways to facilitate own-force identification was to give your own soldiers a consistent and clearly visible / discriminable appearance.

Nothing catches the eye at a distance like something colored red, and being the only force to clad its foot soldiers in a prominently visible color gives a relative advantage in making sense of a battle in progress.

My guess is that this was the primary functional (as opposed to economic) rationale for prescribing the red coats.

 

[Xanatic*]

Didn't most countries' armies of the time do that though? The difference just being the choice of colour. The Caroleans had some quite spiffy uniforms.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Didn't most countries' armies of the time do that though? The difference just being the choice of colour. The Caroleans had some quite spiffy uniforms.

Yes. The formal uniforms weren't unique to the British forces, but the universal use of red coats was.

 

[Frideswide]

what about the british navy? air force?

and do the marines do something different or they linked to the navy ones?

I'm not interested so much in the high ranking, ceremonial stuff - the sort of thing royals wear when reviewing parades. It's the historical stuff worn by the troops.

 

[escargot]

I'm not interested so much in the high ranking, ceremonial stuff - the sort of thing royals wear when reviewing parades. It's the historical stuff worn by the troops.

*nods* Puttees.

 

[Frideswide]

Puttees

YES!

And once there was an agreed uniform, how far was it changed for climate?

 

[Timble2]

There's been a history festival on in Huntington over the last few weeks, so we've had re-enactors of different eras drifting around giving the impression there's some sort of rip in the space time-continuum. To the point, we had the Napoleonic era crowd in last weekend, a lot of the uniforms from all sides look wildly impractical, the white linen trousers and red tunic combos for example would make you an easy target on the battlefield and must have looked pretty shabby after marching over the hills and over the main, through Flanders Portugal and Spain.

It being Cromwell's home town, we get Civil war re-enactors around fairly regularly, the New Model Army uniforms look a lot more practical,

 

[Frideswide]

must have looked pretty shabby after marching over the hills and over the main, through Flanders Portugal and Spain.

that's what happens when King George commands and you obey!

 

[Frideswide]

the New Model Army uniforms look a lot more practical,

buff (both senses)!

I used to do Viking and it was a real pleasure trying to get details right. Never had a beef with people who just did it casually though. The viking stuff was great - comfy and practical although getting seriously wet you absorbed enough water to squelch.

 

[Frideswide]

What colour did Prussian forces go for? was it actually Prussian Blue or is that another UL?

 

[maximus otter]

Most battles were fought in open green fields, with an available high spot from which the opposing generals could direct festivities. The colour at the opposite side of the contrast wheel from green is - ta-dah! - red:

Therefore, red would be the obvious choice for visibility.

If mere cost had been the driving consideration, numerous local natural dyes could have been used at little expense, e.g. woad for blue (as was used in police uniforms until the 1930s).

Royal Marines' uniforms started to standardise on red as the coat colour in the late seventeenth century. By 1742, all wore red coats.

Royal Navy officers wore blue from the inception of officers' uniforms in 1748. There were no regulations for seamen's uniforms until 1857, when they got blue...

maximus otter

 

[Frideswide]

Wonderful! thank you.

Royal Navy officers wore blue from the inception of officers' uniforms in 1748. There were no regulations for seamen's uniforms until 1857, when they got blue...

I'm reading Dan Simmons' The Terror (again). This time through I'm enjoying all the naval detail, although I don't know how accurate it is. I am fascinated by the Welsh Wigs. I'm taken with idea of knitting some for Christmas presents. Sally Pointer sells a handsome repro:

https://www.sallypointer.com/product-page/welsh-wig

 

[maximus otter]

Wonderful! thank you.


I'm reading Dan Simmons' The Terror (again). This time through I'm enjoying all the naval detail, although I don't know how accurate it is. I am fascinated by the Welsh Wigs. I'm taken with idea of knitting some for Christmas presents. Sally Pointer sells a handsome repro:
View attachment 19234
https://www.sallypointer.com/product-page/welsh-wig

l presume you’re aware of Michael Palin’s latest book, Erebus: One Ship, Two Epic Voyages, and the Greatest Naval Mystery of All Time?

maximus otter

 

[Frideswide]

l presume you’re aware of Michael Palin’s latest book, Erebus: One Ship, Two Epic Voyages, and the Greatest Naval Mystery of All Time?

well... I do now! *shuffles feet*

good job it's my birthday within the half year lololol

 

[titch]

the white linen trousers and red tunic combos for example would make you an easy target on the battlefield and must have looked pretty shabby after marching over the hills and over the main, through Flanders Portugal and Spain.

i watched a Napoleonic re-enactment once where some re-enacters had based their look on soldiers on the morning of Waterloo, they looked a right muddy, patched up mess, i suspect that's how most soldiers out in the field, regardless of era would look as soon as they spend a few nights out in the open.

Muskets where not very accurate at anything but point blank range, even max would look like a champion sharp shooter compared to the average Napoleonic soldier.

 

[Mythopoeika]

What colour did Prussian forces go for? was it actually Prussian Blue or is that another UL?

Some were blue, some were dark green.

 

[maximus otter]

...even max would look like a champion sharp shooter compared to the average Napoleonic soldier.

maximus otter

 

[Tempest63]

I was told, in a very authoritative manner at primary school, late 1960s, that british soldiers wore red because they were so brave they fought on having been wounded and it meant the blood didn't show. I was reminded of this by our all too brief appreciation for the film Barry Lyndon recently.

Nelson said that to Hardy at the battle of Trafalgar which prompted Hardy to nip below decks and put his brown trousers on...

 

[Frideswide]

even max would look like a champion sharp shooter compared to the average Napoleonic soldier.

nah! Max = Sharpe

 

[Analogue Boy]

 

[Mythopoeika]

Do people still go to Butlins these days?

 

[Timble2]

Do people still go to Butlins these days?

Only if they've been convicted of something serious.