Unknown Wave

Sid

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#61
So did you talk to the women after the event to confirm that what they saw was the same as what you saw??

I don't know why two people would run off saying "I'm not going back there" when seeing this event it doesn't make sense.
Why would I need to talk to them? They saw what I saw, they were the customers, they were just as astonished as I was, they were the people I was serving at that time, they had (in their minds - and in mine) very good reason to react the way they did, and leave the way they did.
P.S. Especially as I didn't know them from Adam!
 

EnolaGaia

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#62
... Another 'hiccup' is that both women saw the same effect at the same time as myself, so I'm guessing that that, would rule out the image being formed from a stray light refraction, as they where both seeing the exact same thing from the opposite side to myself! ...
So did you talk to the women after the event to confirm that what they saw was the same as what you saw?? ...
Your prior postings make it clear the women retreated after you reached for the pot and you saw the phenomenon. However ...

Nothing in your prior postings unequivocally indicates, much less demonstrates, they had to have seen the same thing you did. They may have been reacting to your state (expression, etc.) upon seeing the phenomenon rather than the phenomenon itself. I specifically asked you about their reactions and whether they'd indicated having seen what you saw.
 

Naughty_Felid

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#63
My point is that if you'd had a seizure or something that may have freaked them out.

Which is much more likely than them seeing a rainbow beam coming from your hand.
 

Sid

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#64
Your prior postings make it clear the women retreated after you reached for the pot and you saw the phenomenon. However ...

Nothing in your prior postings unequivocally indicates, much less demonstrates, they had to have seen the same thing you did. They may have been reacting to your state (expression, etc.) upon seeing the phenomenon rather than the phenomenon itself. I specifically asked you about their reactions and whether they'd indicated having seen what you saw.
Don't understand what you're asking me to do?
I reacted as we all did to what we all saw. "How else can I put it." How can I demonstrate anything - it happened years ago, you want proof? Well, I can't do that. I can only explain the situation; and the reaction of what happened, and how it happened and their reaction to what happened, they reacted to the appearance of the wave in front of all three of us at the exact same time - they certainly were not watching me when it happened.
 

Naughty_Felid

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#65
Don't understand what you're asking me to do?
I reacted as we all did to what we all saw. "How else can I put it." How can I demonstrate anything - it happened years ago, you want proof? Well, I can't do that. I can only explain the situation; and the reaction of what happened, and how it happened and their reaction to what happened, they reacted to the appearance of the wave in front of all three of us at the exact same time - they certainly were not watching me when it happened.
Hey Sid don't get angry. You've posted here on what is basically a site that investigates paranormal activity. We are not reddit sites that just accept everything as fact.

It's completely reasonable to ask about the responses of the only other two individuals who witnessed this event.
 

IbisNibs

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#66
I can say is that I convey to others on this forum personal accounts of my own weird perceived experiences, even though some of it might well sound a bit 'whacky.'
Weird perceived experiences count as Fortean experiences, and personal accounts make them "It Happened To Me!" accounts, so please keep sharing, Sid! People on this forum are inquisitive, analytical and civil.

(Well, sometimes people are a little profane, too, but it's all in good fun.)
 

Sid

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#68
I specifically asked you about their reactions and whether they'd indicated having seen what you saw.
To answer that particular sentence - all I can say is that I specifically worded that we all saw the same thing, at the same time - their reactions were tied to what we all saw, nothing to do with me.
 
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rasputin

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#69
You should post this story on one of the reddit science subforums, perhaps you can get some kind of logical scientific explanation, although it is a great eccentric fortean tale!
 

Sid

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#70
You should post this story on one of the reddit science subforums, perhaps you can get some kind of logical scientific explanation, although it is a great eccentric fortean tale!
H'mm - well 'Rasputin,' I'd rather say one 'true account' for the Forteana Forum, but one of life's strange experiences for me!
 

Zeke Newbold

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#71

The key elements I noticed were that the "wave" displayed a prismatic rainbow-style set of colors, the presentation of this prismatic color was stable (didn't waver or show shifts among the colors), and it exhibited smooth continuous movement from Sid's hand toward / unto the pot the woman was holding.

Based on these elements I zeroed in on a favored hypothesis early on, and I've been querying Sid in relation to refining this hypothesis ever since.

I may as well toss this hypothesis into the ring ...

If there's a mundane explanation, it most probably involves a transient projection of prismatically-colored light into the scene. This projected rainbow light was discrete and stable in content, and it moved quickly but smoothly for a short time before disappearing.

Given the relative locations and orientations Sid illustrated in his latest sketch, the most likely natural light source was in front of him toward his left - in the direction of the door and what I assume was the shop's windowed front.

In the naturally-lit version, the light source was a glint or reflection from or off a moving object - e.g., a vehicle passing by outside the shop. This glint (whatever) was refracted to give the stable rainbow colors - maybe by a window / door glass, maybe via something within the shop. The movement of the original light source and the path along which it refracted / reflected (i.e., optically ricocheted) into / within the shop made it a discrete projected image that moved a short distance in a short time.

This passing projection of a rainbow chunk happened to become visible from Sid's vantage point such that it appeared first at his hand's position in his field of view, and its movement gave the appearance of the colorful "wave" emanating and progressively extending from his hand.

.
I'm not really sold on this explanation. Both Shady and I were reaching for a less polished version of the same sort of idea. However, it seems to me that if these sorts of optical phenomena were possible then they would be more frequent - frequent enough to have given birth to their own folklore and label - but I can think of no such thing.

Besides, for this to work the way you imply then the shop would have to have been very very dusty (or smoky) inside. Yes, sometimes you can see motes of light in dust and smoke - but it really has to be quite dense. We're talking old attic dusty or 1970's pub smoky - not your typical hardware store atmosphere.

Moreoever, if this explanation were to make sense then it ought to be repeatable - one ought to be able to create the same effect on purpose. If so, there's a free helicpter ride to Zurich for anyone who can do so: there's a whole lot of stage magicians and the like who would pay good, good money to be able to command such a phenomena!



Then Felid's point about the possibility of a seizure: I'd thought of that too,(although it does feel an awful lot like calling someone a nutjob foir having an experience you can't describe). I wasn't going to ask this, but now the cat's out of the bag: Sid, have you had any previous experience with anything like seizures? Hallucinatory episodes? Or been on medication?

And then I looked up the `Blairgowrie inciident`. This took me straight onto a site on Forteana Forums! And in this thread there was a post by...Enola Gaia! And on there Gaia shares an ecerpt from a Halliday book on this incident which refers to a 1984 UFO encounter with one Sid Freeman! Sid - is that you? Did them critters turn you into a witch?

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/blairgowrie-men-in-black.14354
 

PeteS

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#72
As a bit of an aside the hole in the pan thing seems to have surprised some people. My mother burned holes in several pans on gas stoves over the years, mainly because she was easily distracted and often forgot there was a pan on the stove. I saw many examples as well when attending the scene of kitchen fires, sometimes involving chip pans. Nothing very unusual in burned holes in pans where the cak handed are concerned.
As far as the "plasma" ribbon is concerned I think the whole idea of some sort of reflected light source would be the most logical explanation.
 

Sid

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#73
As far as the "plasma" ribbon is concerned I think the whole idea of some sort of reflected light source would be the most logical explanation.
Thanks for that PeteS: However, 'logical explanations' aren't always factual in situ.
 

Sid

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#74
I'm not really sold on this explanation. Both Shady and I were reaching for a less polished version of the same sort of idea. However, it seems to me that if these sorts of optical phenomena were possible then they would be more frequent - frequent enough to have given birth to their own folklore and label - but I can think of no such thing.

Besides, for this to work the way you imply then the shop would have to have been very very dusty (or smoky) inside. Yes, sometimes you can see motes of light in dust and smoke - but it really has to be quite dense. We're talking old attic dusty or 1970's pub smoky - not your typical hardware store atmosphere.

Moreoever, if this explanation were to make sense then it ought to be repeatable - one ought to be able to create the same effect on purpose. If so, there's a free helicpter ride to Zurich for anyone who can do so: there's a whole lot of stage magicians and the like who would pay good, good money to be able to command such a phenomena!



Then Felid's point about the possibility of a seizure: I'd thought of that too,(although it does feel an awful lot like calling someone a nutjob foir having an experience you can't describe). I wasn't going to ask this, but now the cat's out of the bag: Sid, have you had any previous experience with anything like seizures? Hallucinatory episodes? Or been on medication?

And then I looked up the `Blairgowrie inciident`. This took me straight onto a site on Forteana Forums! And in this thread there was a post by...Enola Gaia! And on there Gaia shares an ecerpt from a Halliday book on this incident which refers to a 1984 UFO encounter with one Sid Freeman! Sid - is that you? Did them critters turn you into a witch?

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/blairgowrie-men-in-black.14354
There were no 'critters' involved ~ as you say. Plenty of weird events, and encounters of the unexplainable in someone's daily life doesn't make anyone a "Witch" as you put it - that 'profession' probably takes years to learn!
And just for the record, the 'Plasma' ribbon was nothing to do with any dust; smoke or anything else in the atmosphere, the shop was always clean. In fact, when you start "inventing" reason's for another person's experience/s, your only adding in invention - i.e. not being factually logical! Suggestions for possible scenarios for what may give rise to something being understood from another persons viewpoint - yes no problem there, because it's either "yes it could be," or "no that's not how things happened," but don't label a person just because it doesn't make any sense to yourself. Oh, and by-the-way, one-off events do and can happen!
 

EnolaGaia

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#75
I'm not really sold on this explanation. Both Shady and I were reaching for a less polished version of the same sort of idea. However, it seems to me that if these sorts of optical phenomena were possible then they would be more frequent - frequent enough to have given birth to their own folklore and label - but I can think of no such thing.
I've seen such effects on numerous occasions, as transient prismatic projections from (e.g.) transparent dangling bits within wind chimes, a chandelier, or older windows with beveled edges. There's nothing mysterious about them, and hence there's no need to invent a category or label for them. If what Sid saw was indeed one such transient prismatic projection its novelty didn't lie in its basic occurrence, but rather in its occurring in such a manner as to be interpreted as an emanation from his outstretched hand.


Besides, for this to work the way you imply then the shop would have to have been very very dusty (or smoky) inside. Yes, sometimes you can see motes of light in dust and smoke - but it really has to be quite dense. We're talking old attic dusty or 1970's pub smoky - not your typical hardware store atmosphere.
No ... I specifically suggested the involvement of dust only if the rainbow emanation had in fact been observed in mid-air. Prior to that I mentioned the far more likely scenario in which the rainbow emanation was projected onto a surface which (from Sid's vantage point) caused the moving light thingie to appear to be moving from Sid's hand to the pot.


Then Felid's point about the possibility of a seizure: I'd thought of that too,(although it does feel an awful lot like calling someone a nutjob foir having an experience you can't describe). I wasn't going to ask this, but now the cat's out of the bag: Sid, have you had any previous experience with anything like seizures? Hallucinatory episodes? Or been on medication?
The seizure angle occurred to me, too, but the static color scheme and longitudinal orientation of the colors doesn't match any visual aura effect (e.g., migraine aura; drug-induced optical glosses) of which I'm aware.[/QUOTE]
 

EnolaGaia

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#76
Your prior postings make it clear the women retreated after you reached for the pot and you saw the phenomenon. However ...

Nothing in your prior postings unequivocally indicates, much less demonstrates, they had to have seen the same thing you did. They may have been reacting to your state (expression, etc.) upon seeing the phenomenon rather than the phenomenon itself. I specifically asked you about their reactions and whether they'd indicated having seen what you saw.
Let me expand on this, if only to illustrate the limits of the testimony Sid's given us to work with ...

It's clearly the case that Sid believes the women saw the rainbow emanation. It's not clear at all that this presumption derived from anything that occurred in the incident. Furthermore, without correlating the impression they saw the emanation with anything claimed within the storyline, Sid both (a) left this presumption unsupported and (b) opened up the possibility of an alternative explanation for the women's reaction.

Sid stated:

Post #7
I did hold the pot for a very short time - then she snatched it away from me.
The woman was indeed holding the pot until after the event when I held it for a few seconds before she ran off.
I specifically pressed on this issue in asking (post #17):

Did the woman and / or her daughter react or indicate in any way (verbally; surprised expression; etc.) that she / they definitely witnessed the luminous wave thingie?
What happened between the time you reached out and took the pot and the woman took it back and flounced out of the shop? Was it during this time that (e.g.) you told her the pot couldn't be repaired or she should just replace it?
The entirety of Sid's response(s) relevant to these two questions is as follows:

Post #20

I did take hold of the pot just long enough to see the hole in the bottom - as she had previously explained before I had actually touched the pot.

I was relaying to the woman that I doubted that the hole in the pot could be repaired not long after she started in conversation - she showed me the hole in the bottom of her pot before the event actually happened. Then she hurriedly left the shop and fled down the street. She couldn't leave the shop quick-enough actually!
As a result:

- Sid still hasn't provided any testimonial evidence indicating (much less proving ... ) the women saw the emanation themselves.

- Sid leaves open the issue of why the women reacted.

This latter point is subject to an obvious explanation other than shocked response to seeing the emanation - i.e., that the older woman was reacting to Sid's expressed judgment that the pot couldn't be repaired.

You'll notice it's unclear when Sid expressed this judgment - I can parse his posted text to mean he'd done it before or after reaching out and taking hold of the pot. Maybe he did it twice ...

The exact point in the sequence of events at which Sid expressed this judgment doesn't really make much difference. If he first expressed it upon taking hold of the pot, the woman's reaction (in frustration at no hope of repair) was understandably instantaneous. If he'd already expressed it before reaching out to grasp the pot, it could easily and understandably be construed in terms of a delayed realization she was wasting her time.

Either way ... Frustration at learning repair was not feasible provides plenty of ascribed motivation for snatching the pot out of Sid's hand(s) and stomping out of the shop - regardless of whether she'd seen the same emanation phenomenon Sid saw.
 

INT21

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#77
Seems a rather extreme response on her part if it was simply to having been informed that the pot was not repairable.

INT21.
 

EnolaGaia

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#78
Seems a rather extreme response on her part if it was simply to having been informed that the pot was not repairable. ...
The fact she bothered to bring a pretty obviously irreparable pot into the shop and exhibited a strongly emotional response in exiting suggests she was either intrinsically volatile or making the inquiry under some measure of duress or desperation.

In any case, the volatility of her eventual behavior doesn't uniquely support, nor give any weight to, the claim she'd actually seen the same rainbow emanation Sid saw.
 

Sollywos

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#79
Yes I'd been wondering why Sid assumed that both or either women had seen the same as him without actually having discussed it with them? I read his posts a couple of times in case I'd missed something. I guessed it was their facial expression which Sid read and he's best placed to report if they left in a huff or alarm!

I'd wondered if it was some sort of trick the women were playing to spook people but then that leaves the question of why they didn't stay around to milk it for all it was worth?

I'd also been wondering why all the surprise/doubt on here about holes in pans? It's not exactly uncommon specially in the old days. How were the tinkers making a living if no one got holes in their pans? I've even done it myself ..... whistle.

It must have been an amazing and disconcerting thing to see Sid.

Sollywos x
 

IbisNibs

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#81
My mother burned holes in several pans on gas stoves over the years, mainly because she was easily distracted and often forgot there was a pan on the stove.
Thank you for verifying this odd point as being within reasonable possibility, PeteS!
I've burned soup before, and ruined pans. I'm very easily distracted when it comes to cooking, so I'm glad I've never burned a hole in one. (Maybe if I took up golf—must go to other thread now . . .)
 

PeteS

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#82
Yes I'd been wondering why Sid assumed that both or either women had seen the same as him without actually having discussed it with them? I read his posts a couple of times in case I'd missed something. I guessed it was their facial expression which Sid read and he's best placed to report if they left in a huff or alarm!

I'd wondered if it was some sort of trick the women were playing to spook people but then that leaves the question of why they didn't stay around to milk it for all it was worth?

I'd also been wondering why all the surprise/doubt on here about holes in pans? It's not exactly uncommon specially in the old days. How were the tinkers making a living if no one got holes in their pans? I've even done it myself ..... whistle.

It must have been an amazing and disconcerting thing to see Sid.

Sollywos x
Yes in the days when nothing was chucked away, tinkers (and even blacksmiths) would repair pans with holes in them. IIRC they would hammer weld a patch over the hole or use some sort of hand made rivets to secure a patch. According to my mother her father was able to do it. Perhaps the OP's customer remembered these times and was just hacked off that the shop couldn't do it, hence her flouncing off.
 

Zeke Newbold

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#83
Zeke Newbold:

No, things like this event have never happened neither before or since, but I have had more than my fair share of strange events and encounters since quite young - usually when I would be going about my daily life, and usually at times and in places when I would least expect events to happen.
There's an aspect of this thread that seems to have become buried and no one is responding to it!

Sid told us that this event happened shortly after `The Blairgowrie incident`. By doing so he gave us a location of the event and a general time - but there might also be a hint that those events could be connected to the plasma wave phenomena. We have had a thread on this incident before - I linked to this in my previous post -and it involves high strangeness stuff such as Men in Black and UFO close encounters.

One of the key witnesses in this case was one Sid Freeman. In light of the fact that Sid is an uncommon name and the fact that the O.P claims to have had many unusual experiences (c.f above) I am asking Sid, for the second time, if he is the same Sid who was the UFO witness in Blairgowrie.

This may or may not be relevant. However, there have been many cases of random High Strangeness incidents occuring in and around UFO sightings - regardless of what you think of UFOs themselves.
 

Sid

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#84
There's an aspect of this thread that seems to have become buried and no one is responding to it!

Sid told us that this event happened shortly after `The Blairgowrie incident`. By doing so he gave us a location of the event and a general time - but there might also be a hint that those events could be connected to the plasma wave phenomena. We have had a thread on this incident before - I linked to this in my previous post -and it involves high strangeness stuff such as Men in Black and UFO close encounters.

One of the key witnesses in this case was one Sid Freeman. In light of the fact that Sid is an uncommon name and the fact that the O.P claims to have had many unusual experiences (c.f above) I am asking Sid, for the second time, if he is the same Sid who was the UFO witness in Blairgowrie.

This may or may not be relevant. However, there have been many cases of random High Strangeness incidents occuring in and around UFO sightings - regardless of what you think of UFOs themselves.
Hi 'Zeke Newbold:' Apologies for missing out to answering your question... yes I am that person.
 

Sid

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#86
Yes in the days when nothing was chucked away, tinkers (and even blacksmiths) would repair pans with holes in them. IIRC they would hammer weld a patch over the hole or use some sort of hand made rivets to secure a patch. According to my mother her father was able to do it. Perhaps the OP's customer remembered these times and was just hacked off that the shop couldn't do it, hence her flouncing off.
Hi 'PeteS:' No - nothing to do with them being disappointed about the pot itself, t'was all to do with that wave of light.
 

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#87
Yes in the days when nothing was chucked away, tinkers (and even blacksmiths) would repair pans with holes in them. IIRC they would hammer weld a patch over the hole or use some sort of hand made rivets to secure a patch. According to my mother her father was able to do it. Perhaps the OP's customer remembered these times and was just hacked off that the shop couldn't do it, hence her flouncing off.
Nobody repairs pans these days because they are mostly aluminium. It's easier to scrap than to repair.
 

Sollywos

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#89
What was your repaired pan made of, and how did you fix it ?
Oh I didn't repair mine ... in fact now I'm re-examining the event I'm not sure if it did have an actual hole although I've put one there in my memory!

Too long a story and not relevant to the thread (not my fault ... badly designed cooker knobs) it spawned a new saying in my house as a response when the word 'shit' is used:- "soot I think you'll find madam" quoting what the fireman said after I'd uttered said expletive after he'd showed me the pan!

So the black void in the pan in my memory is not perhaps a hole but was well yes 'soot'. Anyway the pan had been given to me as a wedding gift in '71 and wouldn't have been top of the range as I don't have rich relatives! Not that it's composition is relevant now I've realised that the hole might well be in my memory and not the pan after all.

Sollywos x
 
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