Vegetarianism: Roots In Europe?

Krepostnoi

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The land of the borscht? I know the Tsar had to go, but that's a bit much.
For most Russians, borsch isn't borsch unless there's a beef bone in the pot, and ideally some of the beef that had been on said bone.
 

Krepostnoi

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I don't think Russian peasants had a lot of choice in the matter, when the revolution failed to improve their lot. There was a doomed project which encouraged collectives to establish breeding-colonies of rabbits but there was not enough fresh greenstuff to keep the little breeders going. This may have influenced Steinbeck, when he made rabbits the dream of self-sufficiency of two hapless blokes in the depression. :fbunny:
I thought the problem wasn't so much in the feeding of Bugs, Roger, Judy et al. per se*, but in the feeding of them to the humans afterwards: rabbit starvation is a thing. Of course, for that to be a problem, first you've got to actually subdue the bugger - I wouldn't fancy tangling with ol' General Woundwort, here.

4aef857564973f88375a6a221054256b.jpg


*I never had the Lapin for the judgin'.
 

Yossarian

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We also have a woefully inefficient digestive system where meat is concerned, and lack the speed and sharp teeth or claws to be effective natural predators. The idea that we're naturally predisposed towards a more meat-based diet doesn't really hold that much weight, and the idea that a vegetarian/vegan diet is universally a detriment to athletes compared to a meat-based diet is nonsense.
 

ramonmercado

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Death threats to vegans! it's ok, he was only joking!

William Sitwell, editor of Waitrose Food Magazine, has caused controversy with a joke about “killing vegans” in response to a vegan freelance journalist pitching work to the magazine.

Journalist Selene Nelson said the response came after she suggested “a series on vegan cooking”, with plant-based recipes, to Sitwell for the publication.

In an email published by BuzzFeed, Sitwell wrote: “Thanks for this. How about a series on killing vegans, one by one? Ways to trap them?

“How to interrogate them properly? Expose their hypocrisy? Force-feed them meat? Make them eat steak and drink red wine?”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/examv...sy-with-joke-about-killing-vegans-882076.html
 

AlchoPwn

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And human dentition most closely resembles that of the great apes, who are primarily vegetarian / herbivorous.

That is merely vegetarian propaganda. Human dentition is evolved for our diet, which is omnivorous.

Here is a well researched article by a Vegan being honest on this issue:
https://veganbiologist.com/2016/01/04/humans-are-not-herbivores/

About the only thing the article gets wrong is the B12 statement. B12 supplements cannot keep you healthy as the length of the molecules in the supplements are basically not bio-available enough, despite what the companies who make them suggest.
 

maximus otter

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a) We...lack the speed and sharp teeth or claws to be effective natural predators.

b) The idea that we're naturally predisposed towards a more meat-based diet doesn't really hold that much weight...

c) ...and the idea that a vegetarian/vegan diet is universally a detriment to athletes compared to a meat-based diet is nonsense.

a) Which is why we developed intelligence and communication skills: “How much brain power does it take to sneak up on a blade of grass?”

b) Except that we’ve done it for as long as humans have been humans, and even before that.

c) The only test l’ve ever seen was conducted on a UK TV series about nutrition several years ago. A team of veggie female martial artists went onto a normal diet for a lengthy period. The performance of every woman increased as a result, in one case by 15%. As l said in a previous FTMB post, the only thing about it that surprised me was that the segment was televised...

maximus otter
 
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AlchoPwn

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I don't just eat meat. I eat stuff that only vaguely resembles meat. I eat bits of animals that no sane person would regard as meat.

Why? Why do you do that? Are you from Eastern Europe?
 

escargot

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Death threats to vegans! it's ok, he was only joking!

William Sitwell, editor of Waitrose Food Magazine, has caused controversy with a joke about “killing vegans” in response to a vegan freelance journalist pitching work to the magazine.

Journalist Selene Nelson said the response came after she suggested “a series on vegan cooking”, with plant-based recipes, to Sitwell for the publication.

In an email published by BuzzFeed, Sitwell wrote: “Thanks for this. How about a series on killing vegans, one by one? Ways to trap them?

“How to interrogate them properly? Expose their hypocrisy? Force-feed them meat? Make them eat steak and drink red wine?”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/examv...sy-with-joke-about-killing-vegans-882076.html

Longterm vegetarian here but will freely admit, in extremis I'd eat meat. The Andes plane crash survivors are my heroes.

If it was me, a machete, a box of matches and any member of this forum on a desert island only one of us is going home.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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Death threats to vegans! it's ok, he was only joking!

William Sitwell, editor of Waitrose Food Magazine, has caused controversy with a joke about “killing vegans” in response to a vegan freelance journalist pitching work to the magazine.

Journalist Selene Nelson said the response came after she suggested “a series on vegan cooking”, with plant-based recipes, to Sitwell for the publication.

In an email published by BuzzFeed, Sitwell wrote: “Thanks for this. How about a series on killing vegans, one by one? Ways to trap them?

“How to interrogate them properly? Expose their hypocrisy? Force-feed them meat? Make them eat steak and drink red wine?”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/examv...sy-with-joke-about-killing-vegans-882076.html

Just reading about him in The Guardian. Sitwell is, apparently, an Old Etonian toff who disliked the direction Waitrose was going, with its large increase in vegetarian and vegan food. His outburst was in response to freelance contributor Selene Nelson submitting a number of vegan recipes to be considered for publication.

Sounds like Waitrose (who do sell excellent veggie food) are well shot of this dinosaur.
 

Anonymous-50446

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If it was me, a machete, a box of matches and any member of this forum on a desert island only one of us is going home.
Sure, keep telling yourself that...:chain:

Ah, yes: Frying Down to Rio.
Steve, Clem, Hobbsy, John
Crazy Dil and Pappy
Had to travel second class,
They ain't too f**king happy,
 

maximus otter

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Just reading about him in The Guardian. Sitwell is, apparently, an Old Etonian toff who disliked the direction Waitrose was going, with its large increase in vegetarian and vegan food. His outburst was in response to freelance contributor Selene Nelson submitting a number of vegan recipes to be considered for publication.

Sounds like Waitrose (who do sell excellent veggie food) are well shot of this dinosaur.

Selene should note that aside from being healthy and delicious, meat is apparently also the wellspring of the human sense of humour.

maximus otter
 
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Mythopoeika

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Applying for the job of Waitrose magazine editor...
 

escargot

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Just reading about him in The Guardian. Sitwell is, apparently, an Old Etonian toff who disliked the direction Waitrose was going, with its large increase in vegetarian and vegan food. His outburst was in response to freelance contributor Selene Nelson submitting a number of vegan recipes to be considered for publication.

Sounds like Waitrose (who do sell excellent veggie food) are well shot of this dinosaur.

Heh yup, what a stupid old tosser. When you're in business you offer the punters what they want or you'll soon be OUT of business.
 

AnonyJ

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Longterm vegetarian here but will freely admit, in extremis I'd eat meat. The Andes plane crash survivors are my heroes.

If it was me, a machete, a box of matches and any member of this forum on a desert island only one of us is going home.

We are 'conscious omnivores' - in that we have seen our meat/fish being killed for us on occasion, indeed have done it ourselves and still make the choice to eat something that's had a good, free-range life knowing what eating meat entails in terms of slaughter. We also like to eat the offal and make soup/stock from bones.

Quality and not quantity, and respecting that the animal deserves to die as swiftly as possible, are what we try to stick to. No factory-farmed meat, no beef (on religious and environmental grounds), we have mostly lamb/mutton from local farmers and the odd tough old ex-laying free-range hen. It can also be somewhat cheaper than supermarkets. Half a local outdoor-reared pig works out at about £3.50 per kg, butchered.We also eat a fair bit of local wild game and even road-kill venison and pheasant.

Although we like to eat meat and enjoy it, we have no illusions about what the process entails. On trips to Nepal my husband will often slaughter a village goat. But it's shared between multiple households in a mass curry and up until 30mins before cooking it was leading a pretty good life for a goat! Meat is a valuable protein and treated as such, maybe 3 or 4 pieces on the side of your rice, dal, veggie curry etc.

I think that many people have become divorced from the reality of meat-eating, hence the tolerance of factory-farming which is so much more cruel than taking a kukri to an animal and killing it instantly. I might fish all day at Weymouth but coming home with 3 or 4 quality mackerel, killed & bled immediately is a real feast compared to farmed salmon.

I've often felt that if one is not prepared to kill, gut, prepare an animal for food then you don't have any right to eat it.

I also have much respect for vegetarians, and indeed know many through the south Asian side of my family. A Punjabi full vegetarian dinner is stupendous!

Over in the subcontinent being veggie isn't a big deal, most restaurant menus have the dishes in "Veg." or "Non-Veg" options, simple as that, with no separate menu or sniffy opinions.
 

Anonymous-50446

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I might fish all day at Weymouth but coming home with 3 or 4 quality mackerel, killed & bled immediately is a real feast compared to farmed salmon.

Chesil Beach is your friend, but I expect you know that!

I've often felt that if one is not prepared to kill, gut, prepare an animal for food then you don't have any right to eat it.
I so agree with this.
 

Anonymous-50446

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"A Punjabi full vegetarian dinner is stupendous! "

Agreed. One of my local curry houses specialises in Punjabi vegetarian thalis. Utterly wonderful food.
I've away found it simple enough to make really good and nice tasting vegetarian food (Mrs Coal and the Coalettes are vegetarian), and spices are a big part of this - why is so much commercial vegetarian food, both the kind found in supermarkets and vegetarian dishes served in food outlets, so bland and dull? Has no one heard of onions? Cumin? Parika? Garlic? Celeriac? And so on...

I suspect most 'vegetarian options' are a meat-eaters idea of what vegetarians eat.
 

Min Bannister

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both the kind found in supermarkets
Isn't all processed food rubbish? It is prepared in a factory where it is boiled to death then the flavours added back in chemically. There is no way it can compare to home cooked food.

vegetarian dishes served in food outlets
This is harder to understand. So many amazing vegetables in the world and it is always courgettes and sodding aubergines. :mad: I hate courgettes and aubergines.:yellowc:
 
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