Vegetarianism: Roots In Europe?

Anonymous-50446

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Read in the paper today that 1 in 8 Britons are vegetarian or vegan, with about a quarter almost cutting out meat entirely, and more than that cutting down significantly. It's the future! It's also annoying when you can't find the veggie ready meals because meat eaters have snapped them up for variety in their diet.
I just don't believe that, country-wide. Where did they get their data?
 

Anonymous-50446

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Min Bannister

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I believe it. I know quite a lot of people who are vegetarian. But still eat lamb/pork/chicken or whatever it is they don't actually want to give up..:sherlock:
 

AnonyJoolz

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Chesil Beach is your friend, but I expect you know that!

Chesil beach is my 'frenemy' - by the time I make it over the bank, with sticks and husband/fishing bro to stop me going A over T (swearing), I then have to try and tackle up in the wind (more swearing), and try to cast without lobbing myself into the surf (even more sweariness) manage to get at least 10 metres out and fish all day for nowt except the odd gurnard taking the piss (swear more, pack up, fall over and go home)

I mostly stick to the Stone Pier these days, a free run for the wheelchair and some surprising catches. I once got a gannet....seriously.




But I love it really ;)
 

ramonmercado

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Read in the paper today that 1 in 8 Britons are vegetarian or vegan, with about a quarter almost cutting out meat entirely, and more than that cutting down significantly. It's the future! It's also annoying when you can't find the veggie ready meals because meat eaters have snapped them up for variety in their diet.

Veggies should count themselves lucky that we just eat the ready meals and not them as well!
 

AlchoPwn

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I too am vegetarian, except for all the meat I eat. I would be a vegan, except that, sadly, I still have a personality, and have not substituted it with a repeating dialog loop involving obsessive compulsive dietary propaganda. This is okay however as I have special dispensation from the Invisible Lodge of Gurus to do as I please. I can however teach you how to become more gluten intolerant, to make up for the hole that the loss of your racism left in your life. Try as we might, hating one orange man just isn't enough, is it?

If you want to learn more about Gluten Intolerance and how to achieve full existential hatred of Gluten, classes start at $100 dollars, with a $500 weekend re-education retreat, where I will teach you all about thought crime and how to avoid it not only by changing your diet, but by having your ego surgically realigned.

P.S. Has anyone else done enough digging to realize how much of the current Vegetarian and Vegan agenda actually ties back to various cults of dubious provenance?

P.S.S. I also take classes in how to decode various virtue signals, starting from $200.
 
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Yithian

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I hope not.

That would be like saying you're a non-smoker, except for the pipe and cigars.

Vegetarians don't eat animals and a fish sure as hell isn't a vegetable.

The last time I consumed land-based meat was about fifteen years ago now (a Zinger Tower Burger on New Year's Eve, as you ask). Since then it has been fish and seafood only, but you'd be stunned how many people cannot immediately grasp the non-existent intricacies of this.

"So, you're kind of vegetarian, then?"

No. I'm not.

"Do you, like, love animals?"

Err... Some of them, but this isn't really about them--it's about me.

"That must be really difficult."

Only if you're an idiot.

"Does that mean you're a vegan?"

Please stop talking to me.

[My favourite]: "What happens if you eat meat by accident?"

I explode.

 

Anonymous-50446

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Chesil beach is my 'frenemy' - by the time I make it over the bank, with sticks and husband/fishing bro to stop me going A over T (swearing), I then have to try and tackle up in the wind (more swearing), and try to cast without lobbing myself into the surf (even more sweariness) manage to get at least 10 metres out and fish all day for nowt except the odd gurnard taking the piss (swear more, pack up, fall over and go home)

I mostly stick to the Stone Pier these days, a free run for the wheelchair and some surprising catches. I once got a gannet....seriously.
But I love it really ;)
There are stonking mullet in the harbour. I've seen shoals of over 100 fish and many I'd put at over 5lb.

I'm told, although the last time I fished the beach was a decade back (I had 1,000,027 small pollack), that fishing a few meters out is the way to catch the bass.

I don't fish the sea very much, but I've been spotted fishing Kimmerdige of a summer evening, standing in the water up to the nicky-nacky-noos and catching wrasse with an old avon rod and float-fished cockles.
 

Anonymous-50446

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The last time I consumed land-based meat was about fifteen years ago now (a Zinger Tower Burger on New Year's Eve, as you ask). Since then it has been fish and seafood only, but you'd be stunned how many people cannot immediately grasp the non-existent intricacies of this.

"So, you're kind of vegetarian, then?"

No. I'm not.

"Do you, like, love animals?"

Err... Some of them, but this isn't really about them--it's about me.

"That must be really difficult."

Only if you're an idiot.

"Does that mean you're a vegan?"

Please stop talking to me.

[My favourite]: "What happens if you eat meat by accident?"

I explode.
Has no-one asked you if you only eat chicken then?
 

escargot

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The last time I consumed land-based meat was about fifteen years ago now (a Zinger Tower Burger on New Year's Eve, as you ask). Since then it has been fish and seafood only, but you'd be stunned how many people cannot immediately grasp the non-existent intricacies of this.

"So, you're kind of vegetarian, then?"

No. I'm not.

"Do you, like, love animals?"

Err... Some of them, but this isn't really about them--it's about me.

"That must be really difficult."

Only if you're an idiot.

"Does that mean you're a vegan?"

Please stop talking to me.

[My favourite]: "What happens if you eat meat by accident?"

I explode.

The correct answer to every such question is 'Well YOU'RE nosy aren't you?'
 

eburacum

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My ambition for humankind is to conquer the galaxy, but I don't think there will be much meat-eating going on out there. Or rather, we may have as much meat as we want, but it won't come from animals. Vat-grown, printed meat will be easier to take with us to non-terrestrial environments than the land-hungry, polluting and wasteful system of livestock production.

I also expect that, by the time we are ready to create colonies outside the Earth (or soon afterwards), there will be genetically-modified plants that produce all the essential vitamins, amino acids and other dietary requirements that humans need. Mind you, the first examples of this sort of crop might taste horrible, but hopefully that will change.

Only on very Earth-like terraformed planets and on megastructures with similar amounts of land surface will there be enough room to carry out livestock production. People won't miss it.
 

eburacum

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Another future development that I expect to become increasingly important is the process of animal uplifting, the technological enhancement of animals towards sentience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uplift_(science_fiction)
Genetic and technological augmentation of non-human species has the capacity for producing a population of highly diverse consumers, some of whom will be instinctive predators, and some of whom will be more sympathetic with the consumed livestock than we frugivore/omnivores are. Maybe we could persuade a population of uplifted dogs to like printed meat (they'll eat anything we give 'em, almost) but a proactively evolved tiger might prefer to chase and kill her own dinner.
 

AlchoPwn

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My ambition for humankind is to conquer the galaxy, but I don't think there will be much meat-eating going on out there. Or rather, we may have as much meat as we want, but it won't come from animals. Vat-grown, printed meat will be easier to take with us to non-terrestrial environments than the land-hungry, polluting and wasteful system of livestock production.

But... we too are livestock being shipped to the stars in this scenario. There are probably plenty of sources of manageable animal protein we could trans-ship. Hamsters for example. Or battery chooks.

I also expect that, by the time we are ready to create colonies outside the Earth (or soon afterwards), there will be genetically-modified plants that produce all the essential vitamins, amino acids and other dietary requirements that humans need. Mind you, the first examples of this sort of crop might taste horrible, but hopefully that will change.

If genetically modified plants are on the menu, then why not genetically modified animals better suited to the conditions?

Only on very Earth-like terraformed planets and on megastructures with similar amounts of land surface will there be enough room to carry out livestock production. People won't miss it.

That sort-of assumes that humans won't be altering their physiology to deal with the new worlds they encounter. Who really knows what is possible with nanotech? I mean, we may never crack light speed travel, but if we can live long enough in a controlled homeostatic space environment, we won't need to.
 

eburacum

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Speaking of animal modification, one interesting but bizarre possibility is the genetic elimination of predation; all species could be sufficiently modified so that they can live on a plant diet alone. This has happened to the Panda as a result of natural evolution- they evolved from meat-eating bear/dog-like species.

The philosopher David Pearce has come up with a scheme for literally making lions capable of lying down with lambs without eating them. In fact his ultimate goal is a world without pain for anything with a nervous system.
https://uncivilizedanimals.wordpres...e-intersection-of-veganism-and-transhumanism/

There is a non-zero chance that (in a colonised and diverse galaxy) that some or many colonies will pursue a similar path, leading to the development of vegitigers and grass-lions. But I don't think this will be a very popular choice, at least not at first.

Ultimately, I think a more encompassing goal for mind-kind will be the achievement of sentience for all species, so that mice and men (and woodlice) are capable of comparable degrees of conscious thought. But very few of these sentient entities will resemble humans in outlook. This would no doubt lead to some interesting differences of opinion.
 
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eburacum

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But... we too are livestock being shipped to the stars in this scenario. There are probably plenty of sources of manageable animal protein we could trans-ship. Hamsters for example. Or battery chooks.
There was a 'food futurist' on Jon Richardson's program the other day saying that we should all be eating insects. Insect meat would be relatively easy to translate to an space environment. Interesting too, if the little buggers escape.

After seeing that program I finally plucked up the courage to eat the scorpion chocolate bar I got for my birthday - it was actually quite nice.
s-l300.jpg
 

eburacum

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If genetically modified plants are on the menu, then why not genetically modified animals better suited to the conditions?
I'm assuming that plants of these kind can be grown hydroponically or aeroponically, in artificially lit growth spaces; to raise livestock, you'd still need to grow their food plants in a similar way. Some sources of animal protein, like insects or some kinds of fish, would thrive by eating organic rubbish, so that would be a reasonable use of space and energy. Maybe a particularly omnivorous space pig would be a good idea in certain circumstances.
 

Mythopoeika

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My ambition for humankind is to conquer the galaxy, but I don't think there will be much meat-eating going on out there. Or rather, we may have as much meat as we want, but it won't come from animals. Vat-grown, printed meat will be easier to take with us to non-terrestrial environments than the land-hungry, polluting and wasteful system of livestock production.

I also expect that, by the time we are ready to create colonies outside the Earth (or soon afterwards), there will be genetically-modified plants that produce all the essential vitamins, amino acids and other dietary requirements that humans need. Mind you, the first examples of this sort of crop might taste horrible, but hopefully that will change.

Only on very Earth-like terraformed planets and on megastructures with similar amounts of land surface will there be enough room to carry out livestock production. People won't miss it.
 

Anonymous-50446

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This has happened to the Panda as a result of natural evolution- they evolved from meat-eating bear/dog-like species.
...which is why they are dying out.

Ultimately, I think a more encompassing goal for mind-kind will be the achievement of sentience for all species, so that mice and men (and woodlice) are capable of comparable degrees of conscious thought. But very few of these sentient entities will resemble humans in outlook. This would no doubt lead to some interesting differences of opinion.
The sentience we possess is by and large linked to the size of our brains and the complexity of them. The idea that a woodlouse brain is complex enough to register anything other than basic responses is flawed, it's unlikely, strike that, impossible for it to be able to support the complexity of self awareness or sentience. Same for a mouse.

Even a dog's brain isn't large enough to do that to any reasonable degree.
 

eburacum

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You may be correct, and you may not. Years ago I did some experiments with woodlice, and they do have a number of curious behaviours that are more complex than simple stimulus/response reflexes. But that isn't really what I meant; developments in neurotechnology could allow us to delve deep into the consciousness of a woodlouse, or a dog, and integrate this into a larger conscious entity. Woodlice brains could linked to a larger, external processing unit, or maybe even linked together to form a woodlouse hive mind, or a multispecific gestalt.

I expect that in a few hundred years time we'll be juggling consciousness around like any other data integration system, and we'll probably find that the consciousness of a woodlouse is a profound and valuable phenomenon, worth augmenting in a wide variety of ways.

Mice are vastly more complex than woodlice, and they have much more complex mentalities. The actual size of a mammal's brain may not be directly related to its degree of consciousness, and it could be possible to augment a mouse brain until it reaches the same level of intelligence as a corvid bird (which has a brain roughly the same size, but exhibits profound ingenuity and complex, playful behaviour).

I think the answers to all these questions will be uncovered in the next millennium, and it may be the case that once we can fully understand the mind of (say) a sheep, and share its experiences, then we won't be so keen to eat them. On the other hand, if we choose to share the experience and consciousness of a leopard, fox or hyaena, then this might make us even more ready to crunch bones.
 

Anonymous-50446

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Mice are vastly more complex than woodlice, and they have much more complex mentalities. The actual size of a mammal's brain may not be directly related to its degree of consciousness, and it could be possible to augment a mouse brain until it reaches the same level of intelligence as a corvid bird (which has a brain roughly the same size, but exhibits profound ingenuity and complex, playful behaviour).
Nope. There simply isn't the raw material to play about with. You're suggesting the biological equivalent of re-configuring a ZX81 and expecting to get a "quad core pentium". It really can't be done.

You could take a ZX81 box and rip out the insides and put a high power processing unit inside it, but then it's not a ZX81 any more.
 
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