Venezuela Next?

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I think that the US is literally playing games with Venezuela.

They cannot fight insurgents in three or four countries can they?

If they start war in Iran and Venezuela then that is what they would have to do.
 

ramonmercado

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They could bomb Iran and/or Venezuela from the air and then send in special forces. In Venezuela they would definitely have the majority of the people and the armed forces againsy them. They would be unable to commit the forces necessary to "pacify" Venezuela.

Iran is more complicvated. The Iranian Regime does not have a genuine democratic mandate. Various progressive forces including Kurds, Left Nationalists and Communists are already carrying out armed struggle. But only a section of the Kurds would likely side with any US hostilities. any US attack might even increase support for the Junta. Again the US do not have the forces to occupy Iran.
 

waitew

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Iran poses no nuclear threat to either to USA or Isreal at this point & isn't likley to for at least a decade.The reason for an attack on Iran is therefore something other than it's threat!Might be a conveint place for a pipeline though!

Ps..Allway follow the money/benefit & you'll allways have your culprit!
 

crunchy5

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Is it the cia or Nixon and Stalin collaborating to bring down Venezuela?

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=59105

Riots break out in southwestern Merida: Chavez' Revolution in immediate and serious danger ... challenging times for Latin America: for Venezuela, Bolivia and Peru...

University of Los Andes (ULA) professor Franz J. T. Lee writes: Riots and 'guarimbas' are running wild in southwestern Merida State, led by the delinquent student leader, United States CIA and "opposition" stooge Nixon Moreno.

Over the past few days, a small group of reactionary students of the University of The Andes, Merida ... with the probable aid of paramilitary forces smuggled into the university from inside the Faculty of Law & Political Science campus, opened fire at police forces guarding the streets, wounding twenty-six policemen ... three very seriously.

At present time, the bloody political carnival continues around the Plaza de Toros (the bull-ring), in front of the faculty, where student "matadores" are using military arms ... shotguns and pistols ... and seem to be well-organized, aided by some university authorities who oppose the Chavez government.

Many buses full of anti-chavistas students from other national universities were detained by security forces in nearby Ejido preventing their arrival to Merida City in destabilization attempts to cause total chaos
Either way there's money behind them. ;)
 

wembley8

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Merida has a long history of student protests, though it's unusual for them to come fromt he right wing.
If someone wants to encourage Chavez to crack down with maximum force and accelerate the armed militias they're going the right way about it.
 

ted_bloody_maul

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US accused of bid to oust Chvez with secret funds


The US government has been accused of trying to undermine the Chvez government in Venezuela by funding anonymous groups via its main international aid agency.

Millions of dollars have been provided in a 'pro-democracy programme' that Chvez supporters claim is a covert attempt to bankroll an opposition to defeat the government.

The money is being provided by the US Agency for International Development (USAID) through its Office of Transition Initiatives. The row follows the recent announcement that the US had made $80m (42m) available for groups seeking to bring about change in Cuba, whose leader, Fidel Castro, is a close ally of Mr Chvez. Article continues Information about the grants has been obtained following a Freedom of Information request by the Associated Press. USAID released copies of 132 contracts but obscured the names and other identifying details of nearly half the organisations.

The Office of Transition Initiatives, which also works in such 'priority countries' as Iraq, Afghanistan, Bolivia and Haiti, has overseen more than $26m in grants to groups in Venezuela since 2002.

Among the grants detailed in the information are: one for $47,459 for a 'democratic leadership campaign'; $37,614 for citizen meetings to discuss a 'shared vision' for society; and one of $56,124 to analyse Venezuela's new constitution.'What this indicates is that there is a great deal of money, a great deal of concern to oust or neutralise Chvez,' said Larry Birns, director of the Council on Hemispheric Affairs (Coha) in Washington yesterday. 'The US is waging diplomatic warfare against Venezuela.'He said that while the US had accused Mr Chvez of destabilising Latin American countries, the term 'destabilisation' more aptly applied to what the US was trying to do to Mr Chvez.'It's trying to implement regime change,' Eva Golinger, a Venezuelan-American lawyer who wrote The Chvez Code: Cracking US Intervention in Venezuela, told AP. 'There's no doubt about it. I think the US government tries to mask it by saying it's a noble mission.'She added: 'It's too suspicious to have such a high level of secrecy.'President Chvez has also accused groups of taking American money and predicted that the US will seek to use its influence in Venezuela's December polls.

USAID officials denied any suggestion the money had any political aim and said the reason for anonymity for some groups was to protect them from potential harassment.'The goal of the programme is to strengthen democracy, which is consistent with President Bush's 'Freedom Agenda',' said a USAID official yesterday. 'A strong civil society is a critical part of any healthy democracy, just as it is in the United States, England or anywhere else in the world.'The official said that the money was used to pay for 'a wide range of seminars, educational programmes and even public service TV commercials aimed at promoting dialogue between pro- and anti-Chvez camps. Other projects include workshops on conflict resolution, efforts to promote human rights, and training for positive citizen involvement in their communities.'USAID also supports programmes such as day-care centres for the poor, improvement for schools, junior sports teams, and children's homes, the official said, adding that the sums being spent in Venezuela were much smaller than those allocated elsewhere this year in Latin America, with USAID budgeting $3.8m for Venezuela compared with $84.8m for Bolivia and $85.1m for Peru.

The row comes just as China has agreed to invest $5bn in energy projects in Venezuela, including the building of 13 oil rigs and 18 oil tankers. Last week Mr Chvez announced that China was endorsing Venezuela's bid for the rotating Latin America seat on the 15-member security council, a candidacy strongly opposed by the US. The commercial arrangements with Beijing are seen as part of the Chvez government's strategy of establishing new links so as to lessen the country's dependence on US trade.

As a symbol of the friendly relations established between Mr Chvez and the London mayor, Ken Livingstone, there will be a festival of Latin-American music with a Caracas theme in Trafalgar Square this Friday evening. The two men met earlier this summer when the president was a guest at an event hosted by the mayor. Results of AP's Freedom of Information Act request: hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_documents/ven_dollars.xls Millions of dollars given to opposition, claim critics Venezuelan groups' details hidden from list

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1860868,00.html
 

lupinwick

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So nothing new there then :)

Other projects include workshops on conflict resolution, efforts to promote human rights, and training for positive citizen involvement in their communities.'
Perhaps we should consider setting up a similar fund for the US seeing as the current administration seems to have problems with some of tha above?
 

ted_bloody_maul

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watching the news last night (unfortunately can't recall if it was sky or bbc news 24) there was a feature on the citizen militia of venezuela. when i looked this up i found the story was well over a year old.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4635187.stm

seems a little odd that this should feature now.
 

Hanslune

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Venezuela - where is it and Chavez going?

I'd be interested in peoples opinions on where Venezuela is headed under Chavez, socialist paradise with him as president for life or an economic basket case under a dictatorship?
 

ArthurASCII

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I'll go for option 2. He seems to spend more time being Castro's butt monkey than he does looking after his country.
 

Mythopoeika

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Well, he keeps needlessly ruffling America's feathers from time to time, which isn't very good for business... so I'd go for number 2 - hell in a handbasket.
 

ArthurASCII

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There are persistent rumours that Chavez is using Venezuela's oil wealth to influence elections in at least one other South American country (Bolivia), and his plan to push a 5,000 mile gas pipeline through the Amazon rain forest seems unnecessary and ill-conceived.
IMHO, he displays many of the same traits that he slates the US for.

And then there's the Chav thing.......
 

ramonmercado

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ArthurASCII said:
I'll go for option 2. He seems to spend more time being Castro's butt monkey than he does looking after his country.
Butt hes elected, Castro isnt. Chavez has faced the people about 6 times in democratic elections. Castro has never faced an open election.
 

tastyintestines

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Venezuela to chop 3 zeros off currency bills

By Saul Hudson Fri Feb 16, 8:34 AM ET

CARACAS (Reuters) - President Hugo Chavez said he will chop three zeros off new bolivar currency bills to bolster Venezuelans' perception of a strong currency in a bid to curb inflation, which is now highest in Latin America.


But an ex-central bank director said the measure may have the opposite effect because it could give people the idea they have more buying power and businesses may round up their calculations so that consumers will pay a little extra.

The bolivar, named after Chavez's 19th century hero Simon Bolivar, trades above 4,000 bolivars to the dollar on the parallel market, around double the official fixed exchange rate is 2,150 bolivars.

Chavez said he wants to alter the bills so that for example, a 1,000 bolivar note would be a one bolivar coin.

'PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS'

"This will give us higher efficiency in payment systems, consolidate confidence in the currency and produce positive psychological effects in people," Chavez said in his late-night television program "Hello President."

Last year, Venezuela started to take out of circulation the 500 bolivar note.

Chavez, who announced the move as part of an anti-inflationary package that included reducing VAT, emphasised his point by throwing an old silver 5 bolivar coin, nicknamed the "muscle," onto his desk with a clang.

He said he hoped to launch the new currency next year on February 4, the anniversary of his failed 1992 coup that made him famous.

But Domingo Maza Zavala, who this year left his post on the board of the central bank, disagreed, saying it would prompt people to spend more and allow stores and suppliers to edge their prices up.

"With rounding it's always the same problem, there's never any rounding down," he told local station Union Radio on Friday morning.

Chavez has faced opposition and media criticism for last year's inflation of 17 percent and has struggled to keep food costs down despite controls that have caused distortions in supply chains and occasionally left store shelves empty.

http://tinyurl.com/2yynlo
 

wembley8

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(Trying to influence elections on other countries - how shocking! :) )

If you look at Chavez' record, he has done a lot to help the poorer sections of society and seems serious about reducing inequalities. He's also a great enthusiast for the Bolivarian cause and rolling back US influence in Latin America in favour or self-determination, which can only be a good thing.

Annoying the US? He has guaranteed that the oil supply to the US will not be interrupted, hardly the act of someone who wanted to make trouble. he winds up a lot of people because he's not in favour of the whole capitalist thing (the coverage in The Economist is hilarious).

Put another way - what would you do in his place if you wanted to improve the place, reduce corruption and do something about the apalling poverty in Venezuela? Maybe a 'socialist paradise' is too much to ask, but could the place be improved?
 
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Anonymous

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Where is the conspiracy in this thread? All i see is political opinion. This thread should really be in the mainstream news section. Unless you can prove a conspiracy of sorts.
 

ramonmercado

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wowsah156 said:
Where is the conspiracy in this thread? All i see is political opinion. This thread should really be in the mainstream news section. Unless you can prove a conspiracy of sorts.
The conspiracy is the one being carried out by the US, they have tried to overthrow Chavez and are doing their best to undermine him.
 

wembley8

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Too late - they're taking over!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6377867.stm

Mayor signs Venezuelan oil deal

Tuesday, 20 February 2007, 12:21 GMT

Ken Livingstone has signed an oil deal with Venezuela - providing cheap fuel for London's buses and giving cut price travel for those on benefits.
The mayor of London said the agreement will help provide half-price bus and tram travel to some 250,000 Londoners on income support.

The deal follows discussions between Mr Livingstone and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
 

Hanslune

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LEADERSHIP: Mighty Venezuela Looks for Justice

February 22, 2007: Venezuela is rearming, mainly via six billion dollars worth of Russian weapons.
Officials insist that claimed the stuff is needed to protect the country from an American invasion.
But for the last two years, Venezuelan officials, including the country's demagogic president, Hugo
Chavez, have made numerous public statements about the "reunification" of the islands of
the Dutch West Indies (Aruba, Bonaire, and Curaτao) with Venezuela. Added to that there is
the ancient claim on most of neighboring Guyana, some disputed Colombian territorial waters, and
very flimsy claims on Caribbean islands like Trinidad and Tobago. There has been some actions as
well. Venezuelan violations of Dutch air space and territorial waters, including illegal over
flights by military aircraft, have occurred with some frequency. In addition, Venezuelan authorities
have urged residents of the islands to form "Bolivarian" cells, in support of eventual
"reunification."

The Netherlands responded by reinforcing their West Indian garrison (with consists of a small naval
contingent, a battalion of infantry, and some helicopters) with a flight of F-16s. The Dutch
government also took the matter up with the European Union, and Britain (given that some other
territories on which Venezuela is laying claims, such as Trinidad, Tobago and Guyana, are members of
the British Commonwealth) and France (which also has overseas territories in the Caribbean).

No sane man would try to use force to settle these territorial disputes. But Chavez has been doing
some pretty insane things inside Venezuela lately. He's been trashing the economy (like price
controls that force farmers to either do illegal deals on the black market, or go out of business,
and forcing foreign companies to sell their Venezuelan assets to the government at a fraction of
their cost.) In a similar situation of mad desperation, the Argentinean military dictatorship tried
to grab the Falkland islands from Britain in 1982.

Going after Guyana would not only bring the British in, but probably the United States as well.
That's because over a quarter million Guyanese live New York City, and senator Hillary Clinton would
feel obliged to answer pleas from her constituents to do something. The population of Guyana itself
is only 750,000, but the country is the size of Great Britain. The 60 percent of Guyana Venezuela
claims is thinly populated, and many of those people have long been pro-Venezuelan. Still, Chavez
would stir up a hornets nest going after Guyana.

Taking a grab for the Dutch islands would also be troublesome. Even if Venezuela follows thru and
gets those nine Russian submarines, taking and holding these islands would bring forth a military
response from the United States and Europe. Any halfway competent staff officer could point out to
Chavez the high degree of risk in going after Guyana or Aruba (which does have a lot of oil). But
Chavez has been blowing off competent advice of late, and is wary of his own military. He's
replacing a lot of trained officers with yes-men. It may be time to expect the unexpected.

From Strategy page:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/ ... 70221.aspx
 

crunchy5

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Took a look at the site and it looks like a typical right wing soldier fanboy site, there were rumours that Venezuela was going to attack Guyana back in the late 70's early 80's when it was ruled by one of the cia's place men.

Grabbing back their oil is not a bad move economically unless the US decide to embargoe them as a result, and iirc the Venezuelan inflation rate is less than China's and they are meant to be the economic golden boy, it's wage inflation or out of control price inflation as a result of falling currency values, that are bad not an expanding economy.
 

Hanslune

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Howdy Crunhy5

Oh no attempting to dismiss the information based on the messenger?

What you may be missing is that those threats against its neighbors have been made.

Are you stating that

1. The Venezuelans DIDN'T make those threats?
2. Are you stating they aren't arming?

I don't quite understand your second paragraph can you explain what you meant please.
 

wembley8

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The Guyan claim doesn't seem to be current, and for the others Venezuela has agreed to arbitration.

As for the carribean one:

US, France and the Netherlands recognize Venezuela's claim to give full effect to Aves Island, which creates a Venezuelan EEZ/continental shelf extending over a large portion of the Caribbean Sea; Dominica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines protest Venezuela's claim that Aves Island sustains human habitation and other states' recognition of it
http://www.answers.com/topic/venezuela

I can't see any suggestion that there is an active land claim going on.

And as for Venezuela carrying out an offensive military action, why would they do that? Chavez is pretty secure at the moment, and he doesn't need that kind of desparate gamble. We all know perfectly well that anything contentious by Chavez would give the Pentagon the green light to act with extreme prejudice before you could say 'regime change'.
 

ted_bloody_maul

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wembley8 said:
And as for Venezuela carrying out an offensive military action, why would they do that? Chavez is pretty secure at the moment, and he doesn't need that kind of desparate gamble. We all know perfectly well that anything contentious by Chavez would give the Pentagon the green light to act with extreme prejudice before you could say 'regime change'.
On the other hand the Americans' congested fixture list might make this the ideal time to play them, as it were.
 

crunchy5

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Such a fixture would surely be Chavez's testimonial even if the Yanks are going for the Prem, the Champions league , the FA Cup and the league Cup as well as a stupidly timed trip to Japan to boost their Asian profile.
 

ted_bloody_maul

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crunchy5 said:
Such a fixture would surely be Chavez's testimonial even if the Yanks are going for the Prem, the Champions league , the FA Cup and the league Cup as well as a stupidly timed trip to Japan to boost their Asian profile.
without wishing to extend the metaphor too far (and, believe me, i would really like to :oops: ) the americans don't really have a reserve squad capable of taking care of the less important competitions.

all i know is that money's destroying this game.
 

crunchy5

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S t r e t c h

There's a lot of talk about of them raiding the academy and blooding some of their youth.
 

Hanslune

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The problem may be that Chavez may want to start his own league, with his own rules and one of those new rules is he gets to decide where he wants to play
 

ted_bloody_maul

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Hugo Chavez feels 'persecuted like Christ'

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, back in Caracas after a diplomatic spat with the King of Spain, has likened his situation to the persecution of Christ.

Mr Chavez, who was told by King Juan Carlos to shut up at a summit in Chile, said if he were to keep quiet the stones of the people of Latin America would cry out, paraphrasing words used by Christ in Jerusalem shortly before his crucifixion.

The Venezuelan information ministry later issued press releases detailing the relevant passages in the Bible to ensure the message was clear.

Mr Chavez also accused the king of supporting a coup that briefly removed him from power in 2002.

He added that the kings public rebuke of his interruptions during a speech by Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the Spanish prime minister, demonstrated a colonial superiority complex.

During the summit Mr Chavez repeatedly shouted insults about Spain's former prime minister Jose Maria Aznar, calling him a fascist. When Mr Zapateros calls for restraint were ignored, the king leaned over to Mr Chavez and asked: Why dont you shut up? Recalling the incident afterwards, Mr Chavez said: They had to rein in the king and he got very mad, like a bull. But I am a great bullfighter - ole! As he left his Santiago hotel before his return to Venezuela he said: I hope this will not damage relations. But I think its imprudent for a king to shout at a president to shut up. Mr. King, we are not going to shut up, he said. Spain also tried to downplay the incident.

Miguel Angel Moratinos, the foreign minister, said: I dont believe it should affect relations with Venezuela.

Link
 

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US hails Chavez referendum defeat

The White House has said it welcomes the defeat of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's controversial reform plans in a referendum.

"It looks like the people spoke their minds... and I think that bodes well for the country's future and freedom and liberty," a spokeswoman said.

Mr Chavez narrowly lost his bid to change the constitution but says he will try again to win approval.

The changes would let a president stand indefinitely for re-election.

They were defeated by 51% of the vote to 49%, officials said.

Accepting the result, which came as a wide surprise not only to his supporters but also to his opponents, Mr Chavez urged his followers to remain calm.

But it was his first electoral defeat since he came to power in 1998 and is being seen as a major blow to his plan to make Venezuela a socialist republic, BBC Americas reporter Julian Miglierini reports.

Still in power

Many point to the levels of abstention registered at Sunday's election as an explanation for the defeat: more than 40% of Venezuelans did not vote.

It is thought that the bulk of those who abstained were made up of Chavez supporters who chose not to endorse the reforms proposed by their leader.

Apart from ending limits on presidential terms, the reforms would have halted the central bank's autonomy and cut the working week.

It is believed that opponents to Mr Chavez turned out massively at polling stations after a campaign led by students, who have become the most prominent voices of Venezuelan opposition.

The defeat, however, does not mean that Mr Chavez is losing his strong grip on power, our Americas reporter adds.

The president still dominates the country's congress, a law passed in January allows him to govern by decree and his current presidential mandate lasts until 2013.

Congratulations

Opposition celebrations began almost immediately after the result was known in the capital, Caracas.

"Venezuela won today, democracy won today, and I am sure that this victory for the Venezuelan people will have a very important impact in the rest of Latin America," Leopoldo Lopez, opposition mayor of the Chacao of Caracas municipality, told the BBC.

In a statement from the White House, the US state department said the Venezuelan people had delivered a clear message that they did "not want any further erosion in their democracy and their democratic institutions".

Mr Chavez congratulated the opposition but asked them to "go home [and] know how to handle [their] victory".

He insisted that he would "continue in the battle to build socialism" and that his reforms proposal was "still alive".

Since winning power in 1998, Mr Chavez has set about introducing sweeping changes in the country's laws aimed at redistributing Venezuela's oil wealth to poorer farmers in rural areas.

Just a year ago, he was re-elected with 63% of the vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7125689.stm
 
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