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Victorian & Victorianesque Ghost Stories

A

Anonymous

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A big Hello to all of you inhabiting the Fortean Zone :)

I'm currently indulging myself with Victorian and Victorian-influenced Ghost Stories - short stories, novels, plays, films - anything really!

Some favourites that have come to mind are:
"The Turn of the Screw" by Henry James
"The Woman in Black" by Susan Hill (play by Stephen Mallatrat) (film by Herbert Wise)
"The Others" film by Alejandro Amenabar

Basically I love Ghost Stories, but with most I don't get too involved - but I found "The Others" and the play of "The Woman in Black" scared the hell out of me....even now the image of the Woman in Black from the play puts the fear up me big time...:eek!!!!:

What I'd love to hear back from you all is any comments on the above works - or even better, about other works of the same genre or style, especially ones that really get to you!

Thanks for the chills in advance

M
 
Check out The Innocents, a film from 1961- I think it was based on The Turn of the Screw, by James? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I need to reread that.
 
Yes Jack Clayton's film The Innocents is an excellent version of the
Turn of the Screw.

Oddly enough I came across a modern adaptation on the telly last
week under the title The Haunting of So-and-So. I've forgotten it
already. Well it was prettily photographed but so inert and unscary.
 
"The Haunting of Helen Walker"

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0113271

Notable only for having Diana Rigg in it. I watched bits of it but was never enthralled and haven't been by any versions of the book that have been filmed. I did hear a very effective radio version, the reason being that the success of the book is that it is subjective and the audience must rely upon the unreliable narrative of the Governess, whereas the convention of most films is to be objective.

Anyway, book version is presented here

I personally loved the stage version of Woman in Black. It made me jump, had me in cold shivers and was even more effective because it was not done naturalistically, had a cast of 2 (3 if you count her) and was a matinee performance. I have long enjoyed horror films and yet this production managed to draw me in and then completely un-nerve me. Could be due to the presence of Albert Finney...
 
The update of The Innocents wasn't scary at all. Maybe it was because I'd seen the man who played the ghost in something else and spent the whole time trying to figure out where I'd seen him before! :rolleyes:
The Innocents was far more scary, and I think it made the ambiguity over the governess' sanity more obvious, which worked really well. Was she really seeing ghosts and were they really possessing the children, or was it all in her mind? I like that kind of vague story telling, it leaves you thinking about it afterwards.
The most scary bit of that film? For me, it was when the governess looked across the water and without warning saw the ghost of the woman standing in the reeds. Scary stuff indeed.
 
Marius said:
...especially ones that really get to you!
Click to expand...

You will find quite a few devotees of the great MR James on this board. I would recommend EF Benson as well. Neither are Victorian writers but they are both in the style I think you are probably looking for.

The best compilation of ghost stories I've come across is The Oxford Book of English Ghost Stories. I think there is also a specifically Victorian compilation from the same publishers.

As for modern writers in this genre I personally think that on a good day Peter Straub wipes the floor with everyone else. Ghost Story is the one everyone knows but Julia and If They Could See Me Now are the ones that have me turning all the lights on.
 
Thanks! Must scoot down to the video store...

Many Thanks for the comments and suggestions. :D

Spook : MR James keeps popping up in my reading - so will get onto that one and your other suggestions- Thanks!

ctaylor, jameswhitehead; carnacki, spooky angel : re: The Innocents/Haunting of Helen T/Turn of the Screw - which way did you (or the movie) lean in interpretation - were the ghosts real? or was the governess losing the plot? I was always a bit more inclined to think that the ghosts were real - but the governess is a wonderfully unreliable narrator. Quite a contrast to the Woman in Black... such a reliable narrator - you never really question his tale at all....

Turn of the Screw (et al) certainly captures an element of the reality of a ghost encounter - you never know if you can believe what you experienced which leaves you dounting your sanity a tad!!


( spooky angel : was your scary bit when the governess is with the houskeeper pointing at the ghost - but the housekeeper says she can't see it? That was a good moment in the book.... )

(Carnacki : the story within the story format made the Woman in Black particularly involving, I really began to feel I was the only other person in the theatre, eavesdropping on the two actors... BTW Did the woman actually appear in the aisle or among the audience something? - I can't fully remember !! That scream of hers was truly blood curdling :eek!!!!: )
 
I think the power of the Turn of the Screw is in its ambiguity and
the unreliable narrator you mention. Either way it goes into some
very dark regions: those children were either abused by Quint or
are being abused by the Governess one way or another.

It's ages since I read the story but much is made of the attraction
the Governess feels for her remote employer. There is a suggestion
that her neurosis is an attempt to lure him to the house. Or she
uses the boy Miles as a surrogate. Their courtly but suggestive
conversations are always very creepy. I seem to recall that the
boy in the Innocents had an especially innuendo-laden manner,
poshly drawling. "My dear", while stripping the Governess with
his eyes. :eek!!!!:

I didn't see very much of the remake but the boy seemed younger
and the sexuality toned down. A sign of our times. I don't have
the text to hand but I think the kids were supposed to be around
eight and ten?

Henry James used a very similar theme in a story called The Pupil.

And Benjamin Britten set The Turn of the Screw as an opera in the
early fifties. The theme of corrupted innocence seemed to float
his boat. :eek:
 
Chambers' work is fantastic. Especially "The King In Yellow" and it's associated tales. A big influence on Lovecraft, apparently.
 
Ah...MR James once more. If I may bore everyone who's heard me say this a hundred times, Oh whistle and I'll come to you, my lad remains the greatest ghost story ever.

Does anyone know if there's a collection of Chambers available? I love what King in Yellow related stories I've managed to track down. It's a play, isn't it? With an effect not unlike Gloomy Sunday?
 
I remember the story "The Monkeys Paw" had a huge impact on me as a boy. Damned if I can remember who wrote it though. Could have been Poe....
 
Anyone read The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman? Very creepy indeed. When I was at university it was held up as a work of feminist fiction - which it probably is. First and foremost though it's a bloody good "spook story" as EF Benson would say.

I saw the Britten opera that James mentioned a few years back. I'm not an opera fan so I can't tell you if it's a "good" opera or not - but it was very atmospheric. It's amazing how a bit of dissonance and a good lighting designer can turn your dials.
 
Re: Thanks! Must scoot down to the video store...

Marius said:
ctaylor, jameswhitehead; carnacki, spooky angel : re: The Innocents/Haunting of Helen T/Turn of the Screw - which way did you (or the movie) lean in interpretation - were the ghosts real? or was the governess losing the plot? I was always a bit more inclined to think that the ghosts were real - but the governess is a wonderfully unreliable narrator. Quite a contrast to the Woman in Black... such a reliable narrator - you never really question his tale at all....

Turn of the Screw (et al) certainly captures an element of the reality of a ghost encounter - you never know if you can believe what you experienced which leaves you dounting your sanity a tad!!


( spooky angel : was your scary bit when the governess is with the houskeeper pointing at the ghost - but the housekeeper says she can't see it? That was a good moment in the book.... )
Click to expand...

I think in the film The Innocents, as I said the ambiguity was handled better. I tend to think it was the governess "losing the plot" in this case, whereas in the new film, it was more as if it were real ghosts, and you never doubted it.
The sexuality was hinted at in both films; not sure I'd say it was dressed down more in the latest film version in comparison to the original necessarily.
And yes, that was the bit I was referring to. The housekepper could see nothing, the governess saw the figure in the reeds, and was insisting that the girl could see something too, although she denied it.
 
DanHigginbottom said:
Ah...MR James once more. If I may bore everyone who's heard me say this a hundred times, Oh whistle and I'll come to you, my lad remains the greatest ghost story ever.
Click to expand...

The TV version from the 60s is brilliant. I have it on VHS and it still gives me the creeps, no matter how many times I watch it.

Carole
 
I saw a stage version of "Dracula" in an old opera house when I was about 10 or so. I knew the story well enough by that
time, but seeing it performed "live" was something I'll never forget! Even to the point of having the actor who played Dracula
actually in a coffin as you exited the lobby.

The only thing that broke the mood was AFTER we
dropped off the 3 friends who went with me,
my father and brother revealed that they had helped
Dracula into his coffin -- the actor just about broke his neck
trying to climb into it himself!

Ah, childhood...
TVgeek
 
Just took delivery of Lafcadio Hern's Some Chinese Ghosts (1887) from Amazon. Will report once I've read it.
 
Re: Monkey's Paw

Forty2 Does this sound like it ??
about a monkey's paw which has magical powers. It gives to its owner three wishes.... it's by W.W Jacobs, published in 1902.

Sounds like a cracker - and is close enough to Victorian for me!!

Many Thanks - if you're interested Amazon have a collection it's included in entitled "The Monkey's Paw and other Great Ghost Stories" (also includes DanHigginbottom's fave MR James)
 
Top guidance!

So much to read..... Looking forward to delving into MR James - particularly as his work was a major influence for "The Woman in Black", one of the chapters is titled "Whistle and I'll Come to You". MR James may not be Victorian - but is pretty close to the mark ("..Whistle" is around 1904??)

Apparently MR James was a fan of (and edited some editions of) JS Le Fanu saying 'he stands absolutely in the first rank as a writer of ghost stories'. Henry James was a bit of a fan too. DanHigginbottom, I imagine you've probably read Le Fanu - any comments?? Please feel free to regale me with MR James musings - or direct me to the relevant threads.....

James W : The Innocents really does sound top notch - especially "Miles a a surrogate" theme - there is a line in the book where the housekeeper says something along the lines of "he always liked them (governesses) young and pretty" - she could have meant the employer or Quint, but the context of the discussion implies "he" is Miles. Miles is a right little charmer - and seems like a young Lovelace (from Clarissa) in the making... Very Dark indeed....
Along the governess' neurosis and attraction for her employer line.. yes, considering his insistence to not be contacted by her - she would have had to pull out all the stops to get him to come to Bly and see her - however in the novel she sends the housekeeper and Flora to the employer, and stays at Bly with Miles.... so as per usual many readings are possible

Suppose part of the appeal of "The Others" was it made so many references to TOTS, though a more cynical reading would be that it was merely derivative..... I guess I see it as a bit of a reworking?
 
Re: Top guidance!

Marius said:
Apparently MR James was a fan of (and edited some editions of) JS Le Fanu saying 'he stands absolutely in the first rank as a writer of ghost stories'. Henry James was a bit of a fan too.
Click to expand...

An Account of Some Strange Disturbances in Aungier Street by J. Sheridan Le Fanu is one of my favourite "traditional" type ghost stories. Le Fanu was early Victorian (his literary career started about the same time Victoria became queen) which for me at least makes some of his writing, especially the novels, a bit heavy going. His short stories are definitely worth looking at.

I must admit to getting a mild case of the frights when I found myself staying on a gloomy fog-bound Aungier Street the first time I stayed in Dublin

Another story of the period that always sticks in my mind is F Marion Crawford's The Upper Berth which you will probably find in a collection somewhere and might put you off cross channel ferries for life.

After posting previously concerning The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman I dug it out of a box and re-read it (a constant hazard with threads like this) and can now thoroughly re-recommend it. In a way its quite modern and not dissimilar to The Turn of the Screw in that you are never sure if the supernatural phenomena exists or is a figment of the protagonists imagination.
 
One extremely odd work of Victorian fiction is The Three Impostors by
Arthur Machen, 1895.

Parts of it, such as The Novel of the Black Seal and The Novel of
the White Powder are quite well known and often excerpted.

But to get the full weirdness of it, you have to read the whole
portmanteau novel. Parts are quite bad, yet the whole leaves
you with a most disconcerting feeling and the ending is quite
simply depraved! :eek:

I had assumed when I read it that the linking story was inspired
by the outbreak of Magic warfare which erupted in the Golden
Dawn, involving Crowley, Mathers and Yeats. But the dates do
not match and Machen's involvement with that affair came about
five years later. In a Preface he added later, the author describes
how certain scenes he had invented in the book, later came to
pass!
 
James Whitehead said:
One extremely odd work of Victorian fiction is The Three Impostors by
Arthur Machen, 1895.

Parts of it, such as The Novel of the Black Seal and The Novel of
the White Powder are quite well known and often excerpted.

But to get the full weirdness of it, you have to read the whole
portmanteau novel. Parts are quite bad, yet the whole leaves
you with a most disconcerting feeling and the ending is quite
simply depraved! :eek:

I had assumed when I read it that the linking story was inspired
by the outbreak of Magic warfare which erupted in the Golden
Dawn, involving Crowley, Mathers and Yeats. But the dates do
not match and Machen's involvement with that affair came about
five years later. In a Preface he added later, the author describes
how certain scenes he had invented in the book, later came to
pass!
Click to expand...

"Labyrinth of Satan"
"The Devil's Maze"
and
"The God Game"

are Gerald Suster's (a man with OTO connections and a keen crowleyist if a few of my GOOGLE searches are correct) attempts to expand upon the content of Machen's work and his experiences playing with the blending between fiction and reality that Machen toyed with and that has become one of the mainstays of the Cthulhu Mythos that has built up around Lovecrafts work. Certainly an interesting literary experiment if you can pick up any copies of them. Predominantly (debauched) victoriana in style.
 
Dickens & Poe

"No 1., Branch line - The Signalman" also called just "The Signalman" by Charles Dickens is fantastic. I particularly love the way the spooky mainfestations happen alongside (sometimes even via) the most advanced contemporary technology - electric bells, the telegraph, etc.
For me "The Facts in the Case of M. Waldemar" by Poe is the scariest story ever - although the last couple of sentences spoil the unusually-for-Poe restrained tone which makes it so creepy.
Anyone else like it?
 
Re: Dickens & Poe

Jaybee said:
For me "The Facts in the Case of M. Waldemar" by Poe is the scariest story ever - although the last couple of sentences spoil the unusually-for-Poe restrained tone which makes it so creepy.
Anyone else like it?
Click to expand...

I have that one on an audio tape, with Christopher Lee reading it. *shiver* :D
 
I've always found The Novel of the Black Seal to be one of the most disturbing things in literature. Weird that he also wrote The Bowmen which seems ideologically very different. As in, it's faintly optimistic.

And as for MR James; the bit in Casting the Runes with the darkened bedroom still haunts me. If you've read it, you'll know what I mean.
 
I think The Bowmen, despite its seeming Patriotism, contains a faintly blasphemous
parody of the eucharist along vegetarian lines. It is probably more celebrated
for its effects on the "real world" than its literary merit, though.

But I have just remembered The White People! The tale of a young girl who
goes on a journey like no other.

The truth about Machen is that his work often seems deficient when you
read it. The dialogue is often terrible! But it does have the ability to stay
with you, like a malignancy in the imagination. :eek:

And I love M. R. James too. I re-read a selection of the tales recently and
enjoyed them all over again. As well as those mentioned, I love The
Mezzotint and Canon Alberic's Scrap-Book. I bet he was a Freemason. :rolleyes:
 
I always think of MR James as a kind of prototype Roald Dahl. He knew that his readership (and children amongst them in particular) loved the full on horror of something terrible happening. To whit: 'Wailing Well', one of the funniest and nastiest stories for children ever written. Also, 'After Midnight on the playing fields' which is just plain bizarre.
 
Spook said:
After posting previously concerning The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman I dug it out of a box and re-read it (a constant hazard with threads like this) and can now thoroughly re-recommend it. In a way its quite modern and not dissimilar to The Turn of the Screw in that you are never sure if the supernatural phenomena exists or is a figment of the protagonists imagination.
Click to expand...

Have just found this thread after posting 'The Yellow Wallpaper' on the My Favourite Book thread. Your comments interest me, Spook, because I read it many years ago and remember thinking that as it was written in 1892, it was probably based on real cases of madness and depression, brought about by middle-class attitudes at that time to a 'respectable' woman's role. So I don't think of it as fiction - more as a beautifully written piece of observation.

Re: The Innocents
Click to expand...
Having watched the film, I was left wondering about the children's father - he seemed to have no interest in the children's welfare once he had engaged a governess. So it would have been surprising if the children, particularly the boy, had turned out 'normal'. Any child, under those circumstances, would be a willing dupe for stronger personalities, would be likely to have imaginary friends, and in turn would become manipulative to a great degree. So for me, it's the absent father who is the villain of the piece!

Heather.
 
I, too, enjoy a good ghost story - I like my horror gothic as opposed to splatty! To that end, there is an Oxford Book of Gothic Tales that may also interest you.

Chaosium have started a concerted effort to reprint the works of those who inspired and worked with Lovecraft, including Machen, as already mentioned.

I find LeFanu a good tale teller, although not as frequently scary as MR James. James' Stolen Hearts was the one that terrified me the most.

Edith Wharton wrote some good ghost stories, although I remember her society tales better. Then again, Ethan Frome is distinctly creepy, and Summer for some reason makes me think of a '70s style film (as in I would film it in the style of a film made in the '70s) with a distinctly creepy undercurrent to the bright sunshine and floating pollen. Maybe something along the lines of Picnic at Hanging Rock .

The Changeling with George C Scott scared me so much that I had to change channel part way through. I now have it (somewhere!) on tape from a showing on SciFi, so will have to see if it's still as effective. I similarly had to change channel during the TV adaptation of The Woman in Black made some time in the 90s. Their make-up for the Woman was extremely effective - very pale but not unbelievably so, and with incredible burning eyes. The play was also extremely effective, particularly through its wonderful use of sound.

I have a number of collected volumes of Victorian / Edwardian ghost / scare stories, single author and general anthologies. Terror by Gaslight is one of them, if I remember correctly, with a slightly lurid cover of a late-Victorian woman opening the door into a dimly lit room, and only we can see the shadowy horror waiting behind the door ... I'll see if I can remember to bring in some of the titles to share with you!
 
heather 71 - You’re right of course that The Yellow Wallpaper is actually about the gradual disintegration of a woman’s sanity. However the story is dressed up in the familiar clothes of the very popular Victorian genre of the ghost story which possibly increased it’s accessibility to a relatively conservative audience and is probably why I remembered it that way. Film-makers in the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s used the same device in making the classic melodramas (e.g. Gaslight and The Spiral Staircase). They used techniques and traditions common to horror films and the literature of ghost stories while actually making films that were concerned with psychological suspense rather than the supernatural.

There is of course the theory that all ghost stories are about repression. Critics often roll out the theory that both MR James’ and EF Benson’s stories were a result of repressed homosexuality. However the difference is that whatever their sexuality (and frankly I couldn’t give a toss one way or the other) both Benson and James intended to write ghost stories whereas Gilman intended to write a piece of early feminist fiction in which a young woman’s mind is destroyed by psychological brutality disguised as spousal concern.

heather71 said:
...it was probably based on real cases of madness and depression, brought about by middle-class attitudes at that time to a 'respectable' woman's role. So I don't think of it as fiction - more as a beautifully written piece of observation.
Click to expand...


Again you are probably right in that I think Gilman had personal experience of mental breakdown. From what I can remember she also got divorced which I suspect was a pretty radical thing to do in 1890’s New England.
 
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