Wacko Jacko

Yithian

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hunck

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The Real Michael Jackson

On iplayer for the next month

There's a bit from his childhood & early days but it mainly focuses on his decline/downfall after Thriller. Not his popularity however, which remained despite all the evidence/rumour/trial.

Features input from people close to him at one time or another & paints a picture of the vast & costly lengths he & his team went to to gloss over all the allegations. He paid several millions to several children along the way.

He played the media for a while to his advantage earlier on with stories like the oxygen tent he slept in etc & it suited both him as extra publicity, & the media/newspapers for whom a Wacko Jacko story was gold dust guaranteed to sell. Everyone made a lot of money from milking the golden cow & turning a blind eye.

He was never found guilty of anything & is still the highest grossing dead artist to this day. He made $400 million in 2019 despite being dead.

Uncomfortable viewing but compulsive.
 

GNC

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I thought about watching that, Jacques Perreti is a really good TV documentarian, but Whackson just gives me the creeps now, I don't know if I could watch an hour and a half of him.
 

Ogdred Weary

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The Real Michael Jackson

On iplayer for the next month

There's a bit from his childhood & early days but it mainly focuses on his decline/downfall after Thriller. Not his popularity however, which remained despite all the evidence/rumour/trial.

Features input from people close to him at one time or another & paints a picture of the vast & costly lengths he & his team went to to gloss over all the allegations. He paid several millions to several children along the way.

He played the media for a while to his advantage earlier on with stories like the oxygen tent he slept in etc & it suited both him as extra publicity, & the media/newspapers for whom a Wacko Jacko story was gold dust guaranteed to sell. Everyone made a lot of money from milking the golden cow & turning a blind eye.

He was never found guilty of anything & is still the highest grossing dead artist to this day. He made $400 million in 2019 despite being dead.

Uncomfortable viewing but compulsive.
Saw the latter half of this last night, Peretti makes the point (which I'd unconsciously made over the last several years) that death appears to have largely rehabilitated Jackson and that he seems to be more positively thought of and spoken of recently than he was in the last decade or more of his life. There seemed to be significant positivity towards him even at his least popular and whilst he was essentially an object of suspicion and ridicule from the trial if not the allegations onwards, he still sold out that tour and residency at the O2 arena. A friend of mine bought tickets to that, in the meantime he's had two children, I wonder if he'd have bought them if he'd been a dad then?
 

GNC

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I watched the Peretti doc, and it was as well-presented as his other stuff, but still gave me the creeps. That District Attorney (I think) who brought the case against Jackson was right: he basically bought his way out of a prison sentence. Shame on the celebs who testified at the trial. The staff at his mansion attested they never saw him spend the night with either wife, always with the little kids he brought to sleep over. I know it's possible to be dazzled by celebrity, but what were the parents thinking?

I also know, as we have seen recently, that it's possible to lie about abuse for whatever reason, financial, attention seeking, fantasists etc. But Jackson went and admitted straight out he regularly spent the night with children. The most interesting thing was his sentimentalisation of childhood, that he did not have a happy one, when he enjoyed a far more privileged childhood that most can ever dream of. It was just his authoritarian father that seems to have sent him into this downward spiral of infantilization.

But what he did to his face... jeez. Imagine being a little kid waking up to that death mask every morning, quite apart from the rest of it.
 

pandacracker

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What strikes me, from watching this documentary and Leaving Neverland, is that Jackson really didn't see himself as doing anything wrong.

Those clips of him rolling his eyes when questioned by Bashir, saying things like "what could be more innocent than two people sharing a bed", and knowing it was on film, indicates his pathology (if that's the right word) was deep and his driving force.

I think the kids natural love of him (the men in Leaving Neverland talk about it) abled Jackson to massively project his sexual desires onto them. If the story of Jackson threatening his father to never dance again if he continued to beat him is true, it shows a terrifying step in Jackson learning from the abuse to become an arch manipulator himself. Jackson truly believed he was in consensual, romantic relationships with the boys and no one in his family* or entourage stood up to him because he paid their bills. The kids families, clearly groomed it seems to me, were quite happy to get some of the vip treatment, even if it was only by association.

It was a horrible, nasty mess. And still seems to be.



*Except La Toyah, for a bit. But what's she all about anyway?
 

GNC

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La Toyah ruined her face with cosmetic surgery too.

But yes, @pandacracker , it seems there was a cycle of abuse there, from father to son, although not knowing enough about it, it is strange that a violent father bred a sexually abusive son. Maybe it was a control thing, creating an idealised second childhood that was corrupted with adult desires. Bleh.
 

Ogdred Weary

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La Toyah ruined her face with cosmetic surgery too.

But yes, @pandacracker , it seems there was a cycle of abuse there, from father to son, although not knowing enough about it, it is strange that a violent father bred a sexually abusive son. Maybe it was a control thing, creating an idealised second childhood that was corrupted with adult desires. Bleh.
Why is it strange? Abuse is abuse. It's also not one for one phenomenon. There are also plenty of abused people who don't go on to commit abuse and plenty of abusers who never experienced it themselves.
 

GNC

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Why is it strange? Abuse is abuse. It's also not one for one phenomenon. There are also plenty of abused people who don't go on to commit abuse and plenty of abusers who never experienced it themselves.
I guess people look for patterns and try to make sense of extreme behaviour. If it's alien to your own experience, it'll be strange.
 

escargot

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They did seem to be morphing together in appearance towards the end of his life.
There were quips at one point about their actually being the same person, as in 'You never see them together!'
Part of the joke might have been that by then LaToyah was estranged from the family and unlikely to be socialising with them.
 

escargot

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La Toyah ruined her face with cosmetic surgery too.

But yes, @pandacracker , it seems there was a cycle of abuse there, from father to son, although not knowing enough about it, it is strange that a violent father bred a sexually abusive son. Maybe it was a control thing, creating an idealised second childhood that was corrupted with adult desires. Bleh.
There often certainly is a cycle of abuse in families. Often though the kids grow up determined to be better people themselves and to keep their own children safe. Your Take a Breaks and Chat magazines are full of the stories of such admirable people.

The crucial thing for children of an abusive family is to realise that what's going on is not natural or normal. This is traumatic in itself. It's all very complicated.
 

GNC

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There often certainly is a cycle of abuse in families. Often though the kids grow up determined to be better people themselves and to keep their own children safe. Your Take a Breaks and Chat magazines are full of the stories of such admirable people.

The crucial thing for children of an abusive family is to realise that what's going on is not natural or normal. This is traumatic in itself. It's all very complicated.
Yes, far too complicated for inexperienced posters like me to be throwing out theories about, really. As you have a criminology degree, I can bow to your superior knowledge.
 

Ogdred Weary

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There often certainly is a cycle of abuse in families. Often though the kids grow up determined to be better people themselves and to keep their own children safe. Your Take a Breaks and Chat magazines are full of the stories of such admirable people.

The crucial thing for children of an abusive family is to realise that what's going on is not natural or normal. This is traumatic in itself. It's all very complicated.
In your studies, is there any indication on how widespread abuse might be? Obviously we will never know the full extent. My fear is that it's a lot more prevalent than the vast majority of people think.
 

GNC

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In your studies, is there any indication on how widespread abuse might be? Obviously we will never know the full extent. My fear is that it's a lot more prevalent than the vast majority of people think.
That's interesting, I prefer to think it's less prevalent, is that naive? I emphasise I don't deny it happens.
 

Ogdred Weary

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That's interesting, I prefer to think it's less prevalent, is that naive? I emphasise I don't deny it happens.
I'd prefer that too. The average person on the street (they are decidedly averge, by and large) appears to think there are paedos everywhere waiting to pounce on unescourted children but as far as I'm aware most abuse, is perpetrated by people known to the child, within their family or within the parents' social group. I think people are a lot less comfortable with this, it's a little "too close to home" for lack of a better word and is a far more difficult problem to address.
 

maximus otter

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That's interesting, I prefer to think it's less prevalent, is that naive? I emphasise I don't deny it happens.
ONS research suggests that 11% of girls and 3% of boys experience sexual assault during childhood:

“...includes sexual assault by rape or penetration (including attempts) and other sexual assault including indecent exposure or unwanted touching.”

“Two-thirds of child sexual abuse took place within the family environment or the close circle around it.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34904705

maximus otter
 
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