Was Merlin From Glasgow?

[Timble2]

It's been known for a long time that there was Scottish starnd to some of the stories about Merlin, but i think this chap's letting his imagination run ahead of the evidence...

Merlin 'from Glasgow not Camelot'

Legendary wizard Merlin lived in the Partick area of Glasgow and not in Camelot, a new book has claimed.
Tradition has it that King Arthur's magician was either English or Welsh.

But Scots advocate Adam Ardrey, who spent six years researching Merlin, claims he actually lived in what is now Ardery Street with his wife Gwendolin.

Mr Ardrey said be believes Merlin was a politician and scholar rather than a magician, and is buried near Dunipace, just south of Stirling.

In his book Finding Merlin: The Truth Behind The Legend, amateur historian Mr Ardrey said his research showed Merlin was born in the year 540 in the Cadzow area of what is now part of Hamilton in Lanarkshire.
Merlin lived where the king, his brother-in-law, lived in what was called the Royal Town of Partick
Adam Ardrey

Mr Ardrey said Merlin later lived with Gwendolin at Ardery Street from 600 to 618, where they would have enjoyed a "comfortable lifestyle".

The area is today occupied by traditional red sandstone tenement flats, but in Merlin's day it would have been open countryside.

It is best known as the area where comedian Billy Connolly grew up, and was also the original home of Glasgow football club Partick Thistle.

Mr Ardrey said he made the discovery while researching his own family name in the National Library of Scotland. He believes the real story of Merlin has been suppressed by Christian writers.

Modern image

He said: "I found that the my name Ardrey was connected with the very first reference to Merlin, which had him fighting at the Battle of Arddreyd.

"Then later and separately I found that in the last 20 years of his life Merlin lived at a place that even today is still called Ardery Street.

"Merlin lived where the king, his brother-in-law, lived in what was called the Royal Town of Partick."

Mr Ardrey said Merlin was assassinated in about 618 while making his way from Glasgow to Dunipace.

He added: "Tradition has Merlin being buried just outside Stobo in the Borders at a place called Drumelzier but they have got the wrong Drumelzier.

"The real Drumelzier where Merlin is buried is attached to Dunipace."

The modern image of Merlin is moulded by his portrayal as a magician in movies like Excalibur and the Sword In The Stone.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/s ... 965593.stm

Published: 2007/08/27 14:40:01 GMT

© BBC MMVII

 

[Anome]

I've read stuff that indicates Merlin was an actual person, a Welsh bard whose name escapes me.

Of course it could be complete bollocks. But then again, that doesn't really help this guy's case any.

 

[rynner2]

I've read books suggesting Merlin was a composite figure (like Arthur himself), and that some of the elements of this figure did have Scottish origins.

Then again, maybe there were several people called Merlin (how common a name was it?) The scarcity of reliable written sources for the dark ages means it must be easy to put two and two together and make five.
(As Bill Bryson comments, there's no evidence that Shakespeare ever owned any trousers, and Will lived only a few hundred years ago!)

Just because your name is Jones, it doesn't necessarily mean you're related to Tom Jones!


(Telegraph version here: http://tinyurl.com/2z8hzf )

 

[Timble2]

I agree with Rynner, Merlin's probably a composite, including Myrddin Wyllt, a Scottish seer who went mad, Myrddin Emrys the prophet/magician who may be composite himself, both these may or may not be fictional.

Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain, is a major contributer to the legend, and thoroughly confuses the issue as his attitude to research seems to have been to never let absence of facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[Timble2]

I agree with Rynner, Merlin's probably a composite, including Myrddin Wyllt, a Scottish seer who went mad and Myrddin Emrys the prophet/magician/bard who may be composite himself, both these may or may not be fictional.

Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain, is a major contributer to the legend, and thoroughly confuses the issue as his attitude to research seems to have been to never let absence of facts get in the way of a good story.

 

[rynner2]

I agree with Rynner...

How nice it is when two people agree with me!

(I see they have the same name - could they perhaps be related? )

 

[Timble2]

I agree with Rynner...

How nice it is when two people agree with me!

(I see they have the same name - could they perhaps be related? )

It's because I'm a Gemini
(or possibly because the PC's been playing up and I didn't the first post had gone)

 

[ramonmercado]

I agree with Rynner...

How nice it is when two people agree with me!

(I see they have the same name - could they perhaps be related? )

I agree with Rynner as well! Yeah, composite seems most likely.

Anyway no evidence of Merlin acting like a Glaswegian. He didnt go around glassing people or singing sectarian football songs etc

 

[Creamstick1]

Ardrey, Adrery and Arddreyd.

Three straws thoroughly distressed after a good clutching.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

Not only was Merlin from Partick, but there's similar proof that Jesus held the Last Supper in The Gallowgate, in Glasgow and not in Galilea (an unfortunate Biblical misprint).

Link:
Billy Connolly gives audio evidence that Jesus came from Glasgow.

 

[Min Bannister]

My mum used to believe that the three wise men did indeed come from far away in the east, I think it was Wishaw, something like that anyway.

 

[ramonmercado]

My mum used to believe that the three wise men did indeed come from far away in the east, I think it was Wishaw, something like that anyway.

Aye, ye wouldna find 3 wise men in Glasgow. Maybe in Robrt Gordon University in Aberdeen.

 

[Min Bannister]

Aye, ye wouldna find 3 wise men in Glasgow.

*can't resist*

Or a virgin..

coat - gone

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

My Grandfather worked in Edinburgh, with a Jewish chap, in the Army Pay Corp, during the War. Apparently, they sometimes had to handle special cash payments, in local currency, for payment to agents, in the field.

One day, they were sorting out some monies destined for the Middle East, when this chap mentioned that he wouldn't mind being sent out East.

"Out East?" Says my Grandpa. "Where out East?"

"Oh!" Says his mate, "About as far East as Portobello!"* :lol:

According to my Pa, "They sent him out East, alright. They transferred him to Palestine!"

*Portobello is a seaside resort 3 miles east of Edinburgh.

 

[ramonmercado]

Aye, ye wouldna find 3 wise men in Glasgow.

*can't resist*

Or a virgin..

coat - gone

Hmm, I managed to resist it.

Any shepards around Glasgow would be too pissed to be of any assistance to newly born messiahs. The cows would probably have BSE and attack the crib.

 

[Creamstick1]

Aye, ye wouldna find 3 wise men in Glasgow.

*can't resist*

Or a virgin..

coat - gone

Go back in time and tell that to me when I was going through puberty! Everybody seemed to be able to find me then - usually to point and whisper *there he is!* *are you sure?* *it's practically written on his face!*

Bastards all of you!

*ahem*

I would like to take the opportunity to thank the lady, who no doubt was aware of my predicament, that dragged me into the upstairs ladies bathroom at the Cathouse nightclub sometime in 1993, and proceeded to rid me of that vile blight on my character.

I would also like to thank Norris McWhirter, who was in the next stall, for adjudicating the event, and for awarding me with my place in the Guinness Book as the World Land-Speed Record holder fo intercourse.

nb - The Cathouse (in it's old location at 9 Brown St). in Glasgow was considered for re-naming as 'The Cothouse' due to the sheer amount of conceptions that took place there.

Can you tell I miss the old place?

 

[miss_scarlet]

I heard he was from cove hithe, near southwold in suffolk.

 

[Fizz32]

That's the place with the small chapel built in the ruins of the large church, isn't it? I went there when I lived in Norfolk, it's quite a spooky place.

Merlin was from North Wales, definitely, so was King Arthur. Well, that's what it says in "The Keys to Avalon", which is completely true and not based on the similarities of geographical place-names, ooh, no, definitely not.

 

[rynner2]

Time to re-boot this thread:
Vandalism or work of art? Merlin sculpture at Tintagel divides opinion
By CM_HazelMurra | Posted: February 17, 2016

Picture: English Heritage (More at link)

A CARVING of Merlin the wizard has caused controversy after it divided opinion when it was carved into the rocks of an ancient historical site maintained by English Heritage.
The carving of Merlin's face at Tintagel Castle was met with mixed opinions from Cornish residents, with one organisation, Kernow Matters To Us (KMTU), who are dedicated to preserving Cornish culture and history, claiming it 'desecrates' the site.

Situated at the entrance to a rock inlet, known for generations as Merlin's Cave, it marks where the wizard carried the infant Arthur to a place of safety, according to legend.
A spokesman for Kernow Matters To Us said: "This official vandalism has been condemned by people who love Cornwall, both at home and as far away as Australia.
"We are deeply shocked that the inappropriately named 'English' Heritage has installed a sculpture of Merlin in our Cornish Tintagel Castle.
"This is nothing but 'false' history and diminishes our heritage. It is a disgrace. No doubt it will enhance tourist numbers for a season or two – but at the cost of further denuding the Cornish cultural and historical context of this location."

Tintagel Castle has long been associated with the legend of King Arthur - a link which English Heritage actively promotes. The castle attracts more than 190,000 visitors each year.
However, serious historians argue that there is no evidence to associate the castle with the legendary king.

Mr Graham, who spent three months crafting the image in all weathers, said: "Usually you would choose the perfect stone from a quarry, but here I have worked into the rock of Tintagel's landscape. Merlin has emerged organically out of that rock – and to see him now is really rather satisfying."

The carving is part of a project designed to "bring the legends and history of Tintagel to life", according to EH.
Further sculptures and installations have been commissioned and are expected to be placed on the castle site throughout the year.
Responding to the criticism, English Heritage last night issued a statement, saying Tintagel Castle had been "inextricably linked with the legend of both King Arthur and Merlin since the Middle Ages".
It went on: "The newly carved face of Merlin reflects this legend and sits just outside Merlin's Cave – so called after Victorian poet Alfred Tennyson's retelling of the legend in which Merlin used the passageway to carry away the infant Arthur.
"Tintagel Castle has inspired artistic endeavour for centuries and this piece embraces that spirit of creativity."

http://www.westbriton.co.uk/sculpture-classed-vandalism/story-28750819-detail/story.html#1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintagel_Castle

 

[Mungoman]

I reckon that it's a made up story with an origin based on someone like Vercingetorix.

 

[Ermintruder]

To the OP...the only 'Merlin' definitively from Glasgow was out of Rolls-Royce Hillington, but that was a 28litre V-12, and it was wizard....

 

[rynner2]

I wonder if the sculptor of Merlin's head based it on Billy Connelly? There's a Glasgow link!

 

[Tribble]

New book reckons t'King Arthur were a Northern lad.

The real King Arthur was not from Cornwall or Wales - he was actually a northerner.

That's the verdict of a new book entitled Pennine Dragon: The Real King Arthur of the North.

Author Simon Keegan, 36, a journalist with the Mirror's Manchester office, has spent years researching the ancient texts and says he can prove Arthur was from the Lancashire-Yorkshire area.

And the timing could not be more fitting as 2016 is the 1,500th anniversary of Arthur's "Waterloo" - the Battle of Badon in which he defeated the Saxons in 516AD and stopped their invasion for a generation.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/king-arthur-revealed-historic-northern-7475430

A possible reenactment of one of Arthur's greatest battles :

 

[Carmilla K]

There is talk of the 'Round Table' actually being an derelict Roman amphitheatre.
The circular racecourse at Chester being the number 1 candidate.

 

[rynner2]

"Arthur was fighting the enemy on the front line - the northern frontier and the east coast. He would have been wasted if he were based in Cornwall.
"He had to be further north and further east to keep the invasions at bay."
Author Simon Keegan.

But AFAIK Arthur was never 'based in Cornwall'. The legend claimed he was born at Tintagel, but he never lived there. Merlin spirited him away after birth, and he lived with his real father, Uther Pendragon.

 

[Carmilla K]

New book reckons t'King Arthur were a Northern lad.

The real King Arthur was not from Cornwall or Wales - he was actually a northerner.

That's the verdict of a new book entitled Pennine Dragon: The Real King Arthur of the North.

Author Simon Keegan, 36, a journalist with the Mirror's Manchester office, has spent years researching the ancient texts and says he can prove Arthur was from the Lancashire-Yorkshire area.

And the timing could not be more fitting as 2016 is the 1,500th anniversary of Arthur's "Waterloo" - the Battle of Badon in which he defeated the Saxons in 516AD and stopped their invasion for a generation.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/king-arthur-revealed-historic-northern-7475430

A possible reenactment of one of Arthur's greatest battles :

Could Arthur have actually been a blacksmith?
Early Britons crafted their swords from a mould; carved/chisilled out of hard stone.
So the one who could 'draw' the sword from the stone, would be King?

 

[Carmilla K]

Could Arthur have actually been a blacksmith?
Early Britons crafted their swords from a mould; carved/chisilled out of hard stone.
So the one who could 'draw' the sword from the stone, would be King?
This would provide a possible link between Arthur and Weyland, (Wayland the Smith) as in Germanic/Norse mythology?

Volundr, or, Weyland the Smith

 

[Mythopoeika]

There is talk of the 'Round Table' actually being an derelict Roman amphitheatre.
The circular racecourse at Chester being the number 1 candidate.

I have this theory (my own) that Stonehenge is 'the round table'.
It's a round structure on a flat plane (table).
Knights would turn up on horseback and stand in under the arches, looking inward at the king and assorted chieftains.
It would be the meeting place of tribes and kingdoms, where important issues could be discussed.

 

[Carmilla K]

I have this theory (my own) that Stonehenge is 'the round table'.
It's a round structure on a flat plane (table).
Knights would turn up on horseback and stand in under the arches, looking inward at the king and assorted chieftains.
It would be the meeting place of tribes and kingdoms, where important issues could be discussed.

Its a good theory you have there. I think that its highly likely that the tribes would have found a common use for these old abandoned structures. Makes far more sense than the wooden table that is hanging up in Winchester Castle.

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[Coal]

Could Arthur have actually been a blacksmith?
Early Britons crafted their swords from a mould; carved/chisilled out of hard stone.
So the one who could 'draw' the sword from the stone, would be King?
This would provide a possible link between Arthur and Weyland, (Wayland the Smith) as in Germanic/Norse mythology?

Volundr, or, Weyland the Smith

Bronze swords were certainly cast using a stone mould so there might be something in that.