Was Oliver Cromwell Kidnapped By A Monkey?

[Bad Bungle]

Applying Betteridge's law of headlines, the answer is "no" and this will be a very short thread. Indulge me please:
I first read the story in a Ladybird book complete with an illustration: Oliver Cromwell (an Adventure in History) in Primary School, which related how as a baby the future Lord Protector was abducted from his crib by a monkey and carried on to the roof of his Grandfather's house (Hitchingbrooke). I accepted this , like so much at Primary School, without question (like how prevalent were thieving monkeys in Huntingdon in 1600 ?)
As this nugget of information wasn't applied or didn't come up in conversation, I forgot about it. Years later I was doing A Level History (Tudors & Stuarts) and some-one ask the Teacher "I read this Ladybird book about Cromwell as a baby ..." to much general amusement. But it did make me wonder why the normally informative and respected Ladybird book series would include such a tale ?
Moving on to a few nights ago and I was delving into the excellent Strange Victoriana by Jan Bondeson (articles from the Illustrated Police News) and the section on animals. Dwarf killed by cats, lady hugged by a polar bear, child killed by pig, child killed by donkey, child eaten by dog, many children carried off by eagles and finally baby snatched by a monkey called "Hulch" (1870 Somerset). So simian snatching is not unknown, but how old was the Cromwell story ?
Of course I find some-one had already asked the question 10 years ago and Ted Vallance had a dedicated blogpost "Oliver Cromwell and the Monkey". So the Ladybird books probably lifted the story from Through Great Britain and Ireland With Cromwell (1912) by the Children Authoress H.E. Marshall. To push the tale further back, I paraphrase from the blog:
"Thomas Cromwell’s Oliver Cromwell and His Times (1822) lists the story as one of the many extravagant claims inserted into hostile biographies of his ancestor (referring here to Mark Noble’s Memoirs of the Protectoral House of Cromwell (1787)). Noble claimed that he received this story from ‘the rev. dr. Lort’s M.S.S.’, who in turn received this from ‘Mr. Edw. Audley".
Audley was a draper who owned the house in Huntingdon where Oliver Cromwell was born. It is speculated he may have inherited a collection of documents from the house or was simply relating Huntingdon oral tradition. So the monkey story may be true - although it is not mentioned in one of the earliest anti-Cromwell biographies, Thomas Heath’s Flagellum (1663).
Anyone from Huntingdon ?

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/5095/was-oliver-cromwell-kidnapped-by-a-monkey
https://edwardvallance.wordpress.com/2009/07/28/oliver-cromwell-and-the-monkey/

 

[Ermintruder]

Whilst not yet back in the 1600s being used as photographic model 'lures for the mark', monkeys have probably existed as rare unwilling imports into the British Isles since the earliest eras of trade and travel.

Monkeys appear to have been popular mascots on board ships (not just pirate vessels, either) and the seafaring islands of Britain must have had permanent immigration from a wide variety of both two and four legged animals via this route for centuries.

Whilst the famous Harlepool Monkey hanging story underlines perhaps more the rarity of such a sight for the populace than its general prevalance, I strongly-suspect that monkeys (tamed, feral or at the very least, mentioned) were not totally-unknown in these islands. On a passing note: I had never heard (until today) the sadder proposition that the Hartlepool hung monkey might actually have been a small French boy (ie a 'powder monkey' from the stricken French warship).

I have definitely heard the Cromwell Monkey Story before, and it doesn't surprise me in the least that this tale was a condensed offering within the mighty mechanism of Ladybird Books (that'll've been the route for me, then).

These were (and possibly may still slightly be?) an utterly-seminal source of early years education and entertainment for many 20th century generations of British & Commonweath children (do I incorrectly-presume that the Ladybird channel of enlightened educational publishing was prevented from entering the Americas due to some arcane observance of the Berne Convention, or had/has Britannia not yet made peace with the Library of Congress?)

 

[stu neville]

I do vaguely remember the Cromwell monkey story. Like you it might well have been the Ladybird book as our primary school had the entire collection and I was an avid reader.

(Incidentally, the new wave of Ladybirds for grown-ups are brilliant - I recommend them highly.)

Anyway, I don't recall hearing that detail since, but I agree they were usually rigorously subbed so I doubt it was just slipped in capriciously.

On a passing note: I had never heard (until today) the sadder proposition that the Hartlepool hung monkey might actually have been a small French boy (ie a 'powder monkey' from the stricken French warship).

This has been batted around before - the legend itself does imply a massive degree of (at best) ignorance or (at worst) stupidity on the part of an entire populace. It's a port, people will have probably seen actual monkeys before as they were (as noted above) popular ship's mascots, likewise actual French people. The monkey-hanging motif is more than likely, as you say, to be a convenient mask for executing a pre-pubescent child.

 

[EnolaGaia]

Whilst the famous Harlepool Monkey hanging story underlines perhaps more the rarity of such a sight for the populace than its general prevalance, I strongly-suspect that monkeys (tamed, feral or at the very least, mentioned) were not totally-unknown in these islands. On a passing note: I had never heard (until today) the sadder proposition that the Hartlepool hung monkey might actually have been a small French boy (ie a 'powder monkey' from the stricken French warship). ...

We have a thread on the alleged Hartlepool incident:

Hanging A Monkey: True Or Legend?
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/hanging-a-monkey-true-or-legend.36329/

... to which subsequent posts about the incident have been moved.

 

[balding13]

(Incidentally, the new wave of Ladybirds for grown-ups are brilliant - I recommend them highly.)

The Ladybird guide to Hipsters is wonderful.

 

[Timble2]

Currently about 200 yards from Cromwell's birthplace (I live here, not breaking the lockdown or anything). Like everyone else, I saw the story in the Ladybird Book. There's nothing about it in the Cromwell Museum.

 

[ramonmercado]

Cromwell's Ma?!

Painting could be first 'genuine' image of Oliver Cromwell's mum​

Published5 hours ago
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• English Civil War

IMAGE SOURCE,CROMWELL MUSEUM
Image caption,
The painting could be the first genuine portrait of Oliver Cromwell's mother, a museum believes

A painting stored in an attic could be the first genuine portrait of Oliver Cromwell's mother, an historian said.

The picture of Elizabeth Steward dates from the 17th Century and was bought in the 1990s from the estate of the Earls of Sandwich, supporters of Cromwell.

Cromwell Museum curator, Stuart Orme, said: "No authenticated paintings of his parents were thought to exist."
The provenance "makes a strong case for this being a genuine picture", but more research was needed, he said.

The oil on canvas had been purchased by a collector from St Albans and recently stored in his attic as he did not have space to display it. It was offered by him to the museum in Huntingdon, in Cambridgeshire, and having been restored, is now on show to the public there for the first time.

Historian Mr Orme said: "Research has shown that the painting was identified as being an image of Cromwell's mother as far back as 1784, earlier than other putative paintings of her."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-61347711

 

[ramonmercado]

An ideal Xmas present for your Irish friends.

Publication in Focus: The Letters, Writings, and Speeches of Oliver Cromwell​

December 5, 2022 - Though he was stationed in the country for less than a year, the name Oliver Cromwell rings infamously throughout Ireland centuries after his death.

As such, the new multi-volume series The Letters, Writings, and Speeches of Oliver Cromwell represents a landmark publication in the effort to better understand one of the most notorious figures in Ireland’s early modern history.

Published by Oxford University Press, The Letters, Writings, and Speeches of Oliver Cromwell is the first full scholarly edition in almost a century of all the recorded writings and recorded speech acts of the English politician and military commander Oliver Cromwell (1599-1658), who led an invasion of Ireland in 1649, leading to hundreds of thousands of casualties. The edition consists of more than 1,000 texts, not only publishing new items never made public before, but also editing a large number of items from recovered originals, which have not previously been edited.

“Oliver Cromwell, one of England's greatest and most controversial generals, rose from lowly provincial origins to preside over the trial and execution of a king, to undertake a brutal conquest of Ireland and Scotland, and to spend the last five years of his life as head of state, as Lord Protector of England, Scotland and Ireland”, said Micheál Ó Siochrú, Professor in Modern History at Trinity and an editor of The Letters, Writings, and Speeches of Oliver Cromwell. “This project is about recreating, as much as possible, the authentic voice of this hugely important, influential, and controversial figure to understand what motivated him.”

On 28 November 2022, the Trinity Long Room Hub hosted a roundtable discussion to mark the launch of the new multi-volume series as part of the Early Modern History Research Seminar Series. The discussion featured Professor Ó Siochrú , along with fellow editors Professor John Morrill (University of Cambridge); Dr Patrick Little (History of Parliament Trust); and Dr Elaine Murphy (University of Plymouth). It was followed by the official launch of the collection by British Ambassador to Ireland Paul Johnston and Irish Times columnist Fintan O’Toole.

“Cromwell was by no means alone as a factor contributing to the tensions in the British-Irish relationship throughout the years, but the brutality of his actions undoubtedly mark him out as a uniquely despised figure”, Ambassador Johnston said at the launch. “Drogheda and Wexford are names that will echo down Irish history for all the wrong reasons.” ...

https://www.tcd.ie/trinitylongroomhub/media/news/articles/2022-23/2022-12-5_PIF_Cromwell.php

 

[Dick Turpin]

Applying Betteridge's law of headlines, the answer is "no" and this will be a very short thread. Indulge me please:
I first read the story in a Ladybird book complete with an illustration: Oliver Cromwell (an Adventure in History) in Primary School, which related how as a baby the future Lord Protector was abducted from his crib by a monkey and carried on to the roof of his Grandfather's house (Hitchingbrooke). I accepted this , like so much at Primary School, without question (like how prevalent were thieving monkeys in Huntingdon in 1600 ?)
As this nugget of information wasn't applied or didn't come up in conversation, I forgot about it. Years later I was doing A Level History (Tudors & Stuarts) and some-one ask the Teacher "I read this Ladybird book about Cromwell as a baby ..." to much general amusement. But it did make me wonder why the normally informative and respected Ladybird book series would include such a tale ?
Moving on to a few nights ago and I was delving into the excellent Strange Victoriana by Jan Bondeson (articles from the Illustrated Police News) and the section on animals. Dwarf killed by cats, lady hugged by a polar bear, child killed by pig, child killed by donkey, child eaten by dog, many children carried off by eagles and finally baby snatched by a monkey called "Hulch" (1870 Somerset). So simian snatching is not unknown, but how old was the Cromwell story ?
Of course I find some-one had already asked the question 10 years ago and Ted Vallance had a dedicated blogpost "Oliver Cromwell and the Monkey". So the Ladybird books probably lifted the story from Through Great Britain and Ireland With Cromwell (1912) by the Children Authoress H.E. Marshall. To push the tale further back, I paraphrase from the blog:
"Thomas Cromwell’s Oliver Cromwell and His Times (1822) lists the story as one of the many extravagant claims inserted into hostile biographies of his ancestor (referring here to Mark Noble’s Memoirs of the Protectoral House of Cromwell (1787)). Noble claimed that he received this story from ‘the rev. dr. Lort’s M.S.S.’, who in turn received this from ‘Mr. Edw. Audley".
Audley was a draper who owned the house in Huntingdon where Oliver Cromwell was born. It is speculated he may have inherited a collection of documents from the house or was simply relating Huntingdon oral tradition. So the monkey story may be true - although it is not mentioned in one of the earliest anti-Cromwell biographies, Thomas Heath’s Flagellum (1663).
Anyone from Huntingdon ?

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/5095/was-oliver-cromwell-kidnapped-by-a-monkey
https://edwardvallance.wordpress.com/2009/07/28/oliver-cromwell-and-the-monkey/

Not sure if he was kidnapped by a monkey- never heard of that one before. But I did read he was a secret satanist who did a pact with the Devil.

Found in the attic of a country mansion in the 1960’s, was a letter written by one of Cromwell’s lieutenants, that just before the battle of Worcester in 1651, Cromwell was seen arguing with an old man deep in the woods. The old man was holding a scroll and told Cromwell that he could have the scroll for no more than 7 years. Cromwell argued that needed it for 20, but the old man wouldn’t budge.

Cromwell then took the scroll, jumped upon his horse, and was heard to shout “The day is now mine”. The Lieutenant petrified by what he’d just witnessed fled the battle and went into hiding. Later writing the letter to his father.

Interestingly, Cromwell died 7 years to the day of the battle (3rd of September) in 1658