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Demons In Seattle: Keith Linder's Home(s) (Bothell WA)

Here is how James logic is severely flawed. James asks for video evidence. But he ignored several key facts. Facts made over time with this investigation. Tina and myself tried the "get the activity on film" back in 2012, 2014, and 2015. I've reported and their are videos that show this items in the home being moved, manipulated and out right taken. There are still to this day 4+ cameras missing. 3 or so have been out right destroyed. Most of the activity has taken place when Tina and I were at work. Sometimes the power to the house is cut albeit intermittently.

Bothell/PUD(Power Company) have made inquiries to our house, house visits as did Comcast when complained about the intermittent power, cable and phone loss. Neither company could find the source or root cause to the problem.

The phenomena about "geist" throwing objects and manipulating electronics is very documented. The throwing of objects goes way back, before when electricity was even discovered. But thats just one element of the phenomena. The other element is the "geist" propensity for doing things off camera or better yet out of the immediate view of the house occupant. I can't begin to count how many times I've seen. We've seen items zoom by in mid-air, in mid-flight. Only one time have I seen an object rise vertically. And that was early on. The other times the object is always ready airborne by time Tina and I see it, which goes lock in step with other reported cases (the world over).

James as does others (so it would appear) have a low grasp of what in fact a Poltergeist is or does? The word intelligent doesn't even do the term or actions of a "geist" justice. Don't think of intelligence think of an high IQ. Think master manipulator.

Its quite possible the "Geist" albeit smart, albeit crafty, albeit purposely elusive might be in fact constrained or restricted in doing what it does when it does it.

You're never going to advance the subject of the Unknown, of the Poltergeist, of the Ghost if your #1 moniker is "SHOW ME" SHOW ME" or your motto is "Seeing is Believing."

The words "Seeing is Believing" in direct contradiction to the activity of the Poltergeist itself. Its very existence or upper hand I should say is embedded with your belief of wanting to see it. Thats not thinking outside the box. To do so as we did for 4 years is the equivalent of a cat chasing its tail. An invisible one at that.

James notion and understanding is folly. But don't worry I was the same way for 4 years.
 
drbates

Summer/Fall of last year I reached out to Steve Mera after finding his name numerous paranormal books that centered on Poltergeist. In not knowing that we had a Poltergeist, my assumption was we did based on the violent activity. That being said several books by other authors mentioned Steve as a Parapsychologists with a background in malevolent activity. After consultation, interview and vetting Steve and team arrived both January/April of this year. The report explains it in written format. The video explains it in verbal format.



Steve does a good job in explaining their groups case and does go over some of the evidence.


Regards


KL
 
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macqdor said:
drbates

Summer/Fall of last year I reached out to Steve Mera after finding his name numerous paranormal books that centered on Poltergeist. In not knowing that we had a Poltergeist, my assumption was we did based on the violent activity. That being said several books by other authors mentioned Steve as a Parapsychologists with a background in malevolent activity. After consultation, interview and vetting Steve and team arrived both January/April of this year. The report explains it in written format. The video explains it in verbal format.


Steve does a good job in explaining their groups case and does go over some of the evidence.


Regards


KL
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so what happened? Not the report which is a bit odd and full of stuff that's less than helpful. So you live in the house?
 
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I moved out of the house May of this year. Case is still Active.

Level of Activity (Scale 1 to 5)

2012 Level 1, Level 2 Activity
2013 No Activity (low level 1)
2014 Level 5 Activity
2015 Level 4 Activity
2016 Level 1

How I rate our experience
Level 1
foot step noises, wall taps, occasional banging, missing items
being watched, intermittent electrical issues. Pacing
Level 2
Objects begin to move, Noises, Items appearing that we don't own
Apparition
Level 4
all the previous levels combined
Level 5
Door slams, Loud Bangs, large objects thrown, small objects thrown
Fires, scratches, objects thrown at us.



Case is viewed as an Interactive Localized, Intelligent Haunting.
 
 
macqdor said:
Their nick picky at best
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"nit picky" :kiss: (sorry, couldn't resist). Having been taught how to interact with humans, I think you will get better results if you start to rebut the criticisms in a systematic manner.

Thank you for posting!
 
Thanks Frideswide. I'm cool trust me. :bananas:I've had glass candles zoom centimeters from my chin while sleeping. All of this OK.
 
macqdor said:
I've had glass candles zoom centimeters from my chin while sleeping. All of this OK.
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I don't think that's going to work. Address each critique - not "criticism, we don't do that without good reason - and you will find people responding better. You might like to feed back to their professionals that the style and lack of substance in their reports, as well as the half-assed nature of the apeing of research publication standards, isn;t having the effect they might have hoped for.

GLENDOWER I cannot blame him: at my nativity
The front of heaven was full of fiery shapes,
Of burning cressets; and at my birth
The frame and huge foundation of the earth
Shaked like a coward.
HOTSPUR Why, so it would have done at the same season, if
your mother's cat had but kittened, though yourself
had never been born.
GLENDOWER I say the earth did shake when I was born.
HOTSPUR And I say the earth was not of my mind,
If you suppose as fearing you it shook.
GLENDOWER The heavens were all on fire, the earth did tremble.
HOTSPUR O, then the earth shook to see the heavens on fire,
And not in fear of your nativity.
Diseased nature oftentimes breaks forth
In strange eruptions; oft the teeming earth
Is with a kind of colic pinch'd and vex'd
By the imprisoning of unruly wind
Within her womb; which, for enlargement striving,
Shakes the old beldam earth and topples down
Steeples and moss-grown towers. At your birth
Our grandam earth, having this distemperature,
In passion shook.
GLENDOWER Cousin, of many men
I do not bear these crossings. Give me leave
To tell you once again that at my birth
The front of heaven was full of fiery shapes,
The goats ran from the mountains, and the herds
Were strangely clamorous to the frighted fields.
These signs have mark'd me extraordinary;
And all the courses of my life do show
I am not in the roll of common men.
Where is he living, clipp'd in with the sea
That chides the banks of England, Scotland, Wales,
Which calls me pupil, or hath read to me?
And bring him out that is but woman's son
Can trace me in the tedious ways of art
And hold me pace in deep experiments.
 
The 666 was a different stuff!

The Krylon was just the weird webbing designs - explained in the report in terms of horse-hair. :confused:

But both are now attributed to common sprays. They were supposed to be a mystery - especially the horse-hair piffle.

Then Keith demands that we explain why poltergeists should not use common sprays. :confused:
 
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Never have I seen so many paranormal researchers gathered together in one place? No one's yet to introduce one case they've worked on. One report to bench mark this report to. Critique format? To web or not to web? and ignore so many other things.


Innuendo, accusations. Common deflection tools used when debating. Offer up scientific hypothesis that addresses that might explain how someone can paints upside over carpet. And paint four other walls while the house occupants are gone 20 minutes or so. Riddles the mind. Really does. And yet, and yet request to see something in action as if the cheapest movie making software couldn't imitate.

Fake and burn 3 Bibles as if burning one isn't enough. I see what up Im up against.

Gents/Ladies

Truth is always stranger than fiction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-bullets-rooms-attempts-exorcise-FAILED.html
 
macqdor said:
Never have I seen so many paranormal researchers gathered together in one place? No one's yet to introduce one case they've worked on. One report to bench mark this report to. Critique format? To web or not to web? and ignore so many other things.


Innuendo, accusations. Common deflection tools used when debating. Offer up scientific hypothesis that addresses that might explain how someone can paints upside over carpet. And paint four other walls while the house occupants are gone 20 minutes or so. Riddles the mind. Really does. And yet, and yet request to see something in action as if the cheapest movie making software couldn't imitate.

Fake and burn 3 Bibles as if burning one isn't enough. I see what up Im up against.

Gents/Ladies

Truth is always stranger than fiction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-bullets-rooms-attempts-exorcise-FAILED.html
Click to expand...

Why dont you just tell us what happened to you first?
 
This is a forum, not full of believers of the paranormal, but people skeptical and at the same time interested in the subject. I notice many newcomers react when they meet opposition and questions about their fortean experiences.
 
Well, my fellow researcher Kenny Biddle of the Anomalies Research Society has discovered pure plagiarism in this report.

Compare the wording about Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle starting on page 15 of the report with the text and equations here: http://chem.libretexts.org/Core/Phy..._Mechanics/Heisenberg's_Uncertainty_Principle

It's the same. No reference.
<Virtually throws electronic report in trash.> What bullshitters.
 
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I have aggregated all of macqdor's separate threads on exactly the same subject into this single, handy compendium. Please can we all restrict discussion of this subject to this one thread.

macqdor said:
Last time I researched and checked Poltergeist
  • throw things
  • write things on the wall using Ex. Crayons, Pencil, Lead, paint, Wax, etc.
You have to prove hoaxing. being dismissive is lazy intelligence...Do I need to list the reported cases(the word over) of objects being thrown? Guess what 9 times out of 10 the objects being thrown are items and inventory within the house..
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Yes - believe it or not, we are all well aware of what poltergeists are and what they are purported to do. I'd even go as far as to say that the majority of us on here believe in the objective reality of poltergeists. However, if you do indeed have a poltergeist manifesting, then all I can say is that the report which you are relentlessly promoting actually does absolutely nothing to reinforce or validate your claims. If you paid them for it, you should at least ask for a refund. Equally, constant evading and deflecting on your part just looks as if you're being deceptive. Purely on that basis, as others have said, why don't you start interacting and actually answer directly posed questions? It may go some way to establishing some credibility on your part, and once you have that, maybe we will take your claims more seriously.
 
Dont give us the reports of the ones you called in, give us what you experienced personally, what you saw and heard, from the beginning please, we might understand better.
 
I'm struggling to see what you hoped to achieve by having this report done. Disclaimer - I didn't have the patience to read all 37 pages.

If you're living in the house, you already know it's got a poltergeist. You get an investigation done who give you a report saying "yes you've got a poltergeist". Then what? They've just told you what you already know. You're still living there & you've still got a poltergeist. I'm assuming it's still there.. [see above disclaimer]

So what's the aim? Hoping to get possible movie interest? A book deal? What do you hope will happen as a result of all this activity on your part? Would you ideally like to just get rid of it & live a more peaceful life? Or what?

And what about the owner? Who owns the house & what's their reaction to all the graffiti etc?

If you had any more convincing evidence it might help your cause. Vague recorded voices do not qualify, nor do photos or videos of examples of items in odd places or things painted/sprayed on walls. As drbates has already said, all these are readily explainable & extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. You haven't provided any so far. That surely says something in a house apparently so 'active'.

I think we're quite open to discussing it with you here but the reality is you haven't so far convinced many other than your team that there's anything paranormal going on. Huffing & puffing isn't going to do the trick.

As to who is doing it is another matter..
 
Another thread that follows an all to familiar pattern. New poster arrives and announces something fantastic backed up by proof. The board ask a few questions. New Poster gets all antsy and defensive. This goes on for a bit. New Poster buggers off.

Macqdor come back start again and give us your account.
 
stuneville said:
We've brought it. Just saying.
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Uh, ok stuneville. I shut up and sat back. Putting it out there that this house does have activity but there's an agenda that is not directly related to pure investigation and is getting in the way. Since maqdor has moved out, we're unlikely to see a competent investor. This is a pity.
 
Lb8535 said:
Uh, ok stuneville. I shut up and sat back. Putting it out there that this house does have activity but there's an agenda that is not directly related to pure investigation and is getting in the way. Since maqdor has moved out, we're unlikely to see a competent investor. This is a pity.
Click to expand...
Damn this new operating system that's investigation.
 
I contacted Steve Mera regarding the demonstration of plagiarism in this report. Here is my letter to him:

Dear Mr. Mera:
I have read the SEP report regarding the investigation of the Keith Linder house and was unimpressed with the poor formatting, errors, stylistic messiness and the misappropriation of scientific concepts to a paranormal explanation. All that is disturbing enough but I submit the following for you to answer to - an allegation that a large portion of the report (nearly half) was simply plagiarized.
Of approximately 15,000 words, 6,700 words were copied verbatim without attribution.
1 - Page 12, Starting with "Hallucinations can on occasion be responsible for witnesses to report a number of sensory experiences..."
Copied, without reference, from http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hallucinations/Pages/Introduction.aspx
2 - Page 14 to 15, Starting with "Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle"
Copied, without reference, from http://chem.libretexts.org/Core/Phy..._Mechanics/Heisenberg's_Uncertainty_Principle
3 - Page 15 to 19, Starting with "The word for Poltergeist is German for 'Noisy Ghost'..."
Copied, without reference, from http://strangegr.tripod.com/strangeandparanormalactivities/id32.html
4 - Page 22, Staring with " Horsehair Pottery is a Native American art form that was discovered in 1980 by sheer accident."
Copied, without reference, from http://www.innovateus.net/crafts/how-make-horsehair-pottery
5 - Page 22, Starting with "The beast apparently can control who can and cannot buy and sell."
Copied, without reference, from http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-does-666-mean-a-bible-study/
6 - Page 24 to 26, Starting with "Loggers founded the King County community that became Bothell in the 1880s"
Copied, without reference, from http://www.sunset-hwy.com/bothellcity.htm
7 - Page 30, Starting with " Geopathic Stress: This is the result of spending long periods working..."
Copied, without reference, from http://www.royriggs.co.uk/www.royriggs.co.uk/GEOPATHIC_STRESS_RESEARCH.html
8 - Pages 32 to 33, Starting at "Kennard Corner"
Copied, without reference, from http://snocohistory.com/life-along-the-highway/kennards_corner_bothell
9 - Page 34 to 35, Starting with " Paranormal Researchers have always adopted various technologies to conduct investigations"
Much of it was copied, without reference, from https://ocprstoronto.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/the-“ghost-box”-fraud/
10 - Page 35 to 36, Starting with " Those that Lie often speak at a slower pace and provide less detail in their stories..."
Copied, without reference, from http://blog.archprofile.com/archinsights/body_language_deception
Do you not realize the seriousness of plagiarism, lack of attribution of sources and disregard for even minimal scientific standards? This reflects so poorly on your credibility that the report should be completely discarded and the SEP disgraced. The history of this case and of the behavior of Mr. Linder to promote it as paranormal (which is based on shoddy evidence and strongly suggests a hoax) also lends serious investigators to utterly dismiss it. I am baffled as to why you would release such an awful representation of your work on the Linder case.
Those who respect the ethos of science and strive to maintain ethical standards in investigations would like to hear your response to this. Please note, as the editor of DoubtfulNews.com, I am considering publishing this story.

Sharon Hill​

Note: The work above was spearheaded by Kenny Biddle. Software was used to analyze the report (as is commonly done with school papers). 38% of the paper was plagiarized, not exactly "nearly half" as I originally cited.

-------
Mr. Mera replied:

Hello Sharon, the document you refer to is just some information for Keith, as we promised him some documented info. It is also incomplete and draft version sent to him because he was constantly asking for it. We sent him over the draft version so to keep him happy. No distribution was to take place, for which Keith was told. References are not as yet added but noted on our system. The investigation process and evidence has not even been added to the document.

The third comment in regards coppied without reference is in fact my own work. [sic]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will most certainly be in touch with him.
As for the investigation at the location, we have not been able to rationalise numerous incidents.
SEP and including myself believe the incidents to be paranormal in nature.

Many thanks.
PS: If you would like to know any further information pertaining to tests carried out, evidence obtained, then please do not hesitate in contacting me.​

----
Keith Linder then sent this email to me and to my DoubtfulNews Facebook page:

Dear Doubtful news, you may or may not have received a report about the Bothell Washington/USA case aka coined "Demons In Seattle" or "Washington State Poltergeist case". Such a report might have reached you prematurely and should be viewed as a draft only. Report is partial complete.

The references made and the quoting of info hasn't been cemented yet. Thus making the report premature for public consumption. Please remove or amend what ever version you have.

Much thanks,

Keith LïïnderHouse Occupant
​
----
A few things of note:
  • This case currently is about two separate issues: What, if anything, is going on at the Linder house; and, has SEP done a credible job of reporting on what they observed. So far, we don't have a complete answer to the former but the latter is a definite NO.
  • Steve Mera is does not hold a PhD in parapsychology. He does not appear to be affiliated with the SPR but with several media ventures that he lists in a very long email signature. His bona fides to explain parapsychology, quantum physics, and Bible scholarship are unsupported.
  • The report says "Cleared for release". In no place does it say "Draft" as you should cite clearly if it truly is not finalized.
  • Why was Mr. Linder (now Liinder?) constantly asking for it? He states I "may have received a report"? Um, it was deliberately distributed by Mr. Linder to several locations across the web. That's not quite the same.
  • In no way does the status of "Draft" excuse the blatant plagiarism, poor data displays and incoherent discussion of the report.
This case has a considerable backstory. I currently do not have the time available to conduct the due diligence necessary to flesh out the facts and allegations, though I hope someone does. Regardless of the facts and conclusions of the case, is THIS the way premium paranormal investigation is conducted these days? It's AWFUL! I'm thinking maybe Ghost Adventures crew did better! This is a terrible example for SEP to present of their work, draft or not -- too many egregious errors, unethical copying, and pseudoscientific piffle. If paranormal investigators wish to be taken seriously for the time and effort they put into cases, they have to raise the quality of their methods and deliverables tremendously. They have not helped Mr Linder, whatever his motives are.
 
I noticed that Mr. Linder removed the report from his Dropbox...it is no longer available for download.

The report itself offered no evidence whatsoever. It was a collage of speculation, assumption, shoddy investigative techniques, uncontrolled environments, confirmation bias, and a severe lack of objectivity. It was an embarrassment to be referred to as a "Scientific Evaluation" since the only science I read was plagiarized from other sites. This is by far, the worst report I've read in a long time. It is certainly not considered a peer reviewed paper, and I have little doubt it will ever achieve such a status.

I've seen nothing that would lead an intelligent person to believe this house is "haunted". With all the videos Keith has posted on YouTube, Facebook, and sites like this...nothing stands out as extraordinary. This "report" only serves to support that statement. Amateur ghost hunting teams with no scientific training (some have publically stated they don't care about science"), and a heavily biased team from the UK (that writes up this pitiful report) are not confirmation of the house owner's claims - they've only added to the circus and obsessive need for attention.

Perhaps, instead of reaching out to groups that make it a habit of believing things at face value, the house owner should contact a skeptical organization that could demonstrate the proper execution of the scientific process. Perhaps the Independent Investigations Group in California.
 
Hi Kenny

I never heard of the Independent Investigations Group in California and I live close by in WA state. Im pretty sure there are ample organizations that could have investigated this house. Several teams did. 5 in fact. Two from the east-coast. I found S.E.P Steve Mera specifically through the reading of books about Poltergeists. I was trying to understand the phenomena we were experiencing in an effort to make the house livable i.e. quiet.

It was through books and books alone I found Steve Mera and for the record Steve and team did a GREAT job. Paranormal politics never interests me. And trust me the community as a whole is full of it. Steve has 30+ years of experience as does Don and both men never took things as face value. Online interviews of both Steve and Don will prove that to be true.

We're now in the later part of 2016. The events began in May 2012. Tons of vetting, discovery in between.

Obviously some people are going to nitpick and in typical knee jerk fashion cling to performing some acts of Ad hominem.

If I've one thing about both the paranormal and parapsychology community and I'm being very generous giving them the title of belonging to a community its this. Many are siloed, segmented, cut off and envious of others findings. It seems if the evidence didn't come from them directly the evidence is suspect.

I find this sad and unfortunate. You don't grow intellectually. And the topic of both paranormal and supernatural forever stagnates.

Instead of trying to disavow a potential friend or colleague why not extend an olive branch for the purpose of better understanding the weird stuff out there happening in people's home.

I am forever in debt and gratitude for the work Steve and his organization done and are continuing to do.
 
macqdor said:
Obviously some people are going to nitpick and in typical knee jerk fashion cling to performing some acts of Ad hominem.
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There are precious little ad hominae in the preceding five pages, if truth be told. There is however much criticism of a severely un-scientific investigation, which when produced as supporting evidence for your claims does nothing to bolster your own credibility.

macqdor said:
I am forever in debt and gratitude for the work Steve and his organization done and are continuing to do.
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Caveat grator.

Meanwhile, now you're back, may I remind you..
macqdor said:
Then let's do it. I'm sharing. I'm providing. Who's got questions? I've got answers. I want to engage the most skeptical mind and lets solve this. Lets go after it. In essence BRING IT ANYONE


lets talk paranormal!
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There are plenty of questions in the queue. We're listening..
 
credibility is elusive as it is relative as is the word scientific. I've pasted a substantial amount of evidence here some people hear have vouched for the EVP's.

case in point.

2014 ( this video has me propping bedrooms with video cams. Most are now gone. Destroyed or out right taken. I kept a stock pile of videos hoping to capture the often requested moving phenomena. Case in point the giant Amour in this center pic. This Amour has been tossed several teems. Lifted up and thrown. use to sit in the hallway till it started damaging the hall walls due to be thrown so much. Of course I wanted to capture the object being thrown on video. But what I want and what the "geist" want are two separate things. It becomes a tale of the cat chasing its tale weeks and months later. And it becomes dangerous because the more cams I buy the higher the activity gets. There way of telling me to leave them alone(no cams buddy) is tossing a couch.

Now I'm out the house, so I began reviewing all my old video footage months back after realizing through Don and Steve that these spirits love to talk. Sometimes they utter one words like "Hey" "No" Go" "Yes" and "yeah" Even "Keith" . Over 20+ video and audios with the name "Keith" being uttered, over a 4 year expanse.

People talk about "attachments" and "targeting" if a entity can utter your name in various audio and video for 4 years I think that might shed some light on the validity of the words "attachment" and "targeting". Mind you the initials "Die KL" were written on my wall a few times come fall/winter 2014.

Here is one of the oldest 00:55 "Keith" footages.
00:55 [old bothell house]



https://soundcloud.com/user-423872078/keith-evp [new house/summer 2016]
00:12 "Keith" voice sounds female

https://soundcloud.com/user-423872078/rec014-2keiths-evp
1:08, 1:10 "Keith, Keith" (female/male)


Now I'm not a proponent of having a sterile environment(as some suggest, turn everything off) perse, esp when I'm trying to chase these type of EVPS. Some investigators believe in the Q/A EVP session. I've discovered these entities respond or comment I should say among themselves when the environment is natural as possible. Which is one of the reasons why I believe GA left empty handed

I'm going by day to day business while home. 2 to 3 voice recorders or cams spread through out the home. Each device is different from the other. I also discovered these entities voice is louder when more than one person is in the room or house.

case in point.
[old house]
11:13 "Yeah Shit", 19:03 "Chickened Out You Puss"


Im speculating but I kind know why they said "you chickened out you p*ss..."
My friend came over with several cameras to take photos of both inside and outside.
This was weeks before i moved. One again I had 3 audio recorders in various parts of the house. trying to ascertain are they near or far.

They try to hide their voice under ours to avoid detection. Sometimes they utter a word before we do, which seems to suggest they know what we're about to say. That evidence is not here but I have it. Its available.

The house exorcism/cleanse ritual is already posted somewhere on this thread where 40+ "Keith" EVP's were found. Listen for yourself. The benefit of sharing is strangers, not me have come back to me informing of other voices they've found. Hence my reason for going back into my video/audio stash reviewing old footage.

(wear headphones and turn off your surrounding noise when listening to these)

Questions?
 
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