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What Is The Connection Between Greensleeves & Ice-Cream?

OneWingedBird

Beloved of Ra
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Not something I hear too often these days, it was a thing particularly in the 70s and 80s that ice cream vans played Greensleeves.

It's not just a UK thing as this features in the plot of the Australian show Round the Twist, in one episode, the protagonists catch an ice cream machine in human form by walking around with a ghetto blaster playing the tune!

Who thought this was a good idea though?
 
I have heard one that played the Match of the Day theme once, but you're right about Greensleeves and ice cream vans.
 
Erm....... because Jane Seymour made Henry VIII happy, and icecream makes us happy......?
 
Not something I hear too often these days, it was a thing particularly in the 70s and 80s that ice cream vans played Greensleeves.

It's not just a UK thing as this features in the plot of the Australian show Round the Twist, in one episode, the protagonists catch an ice cream machine in human form by walking around with a ghetto blaster playing the tune!

Who thought this was a good idea though?

Is it a royalties issue (royalty as in money, not as in the purported composer...)? Out of copyright = free to use.
 
Yes, I think Krepostnoi is correct - I was about to suggest that until I read his post.
 
If it's about not having to pay royalties though, there's several centuries of classical music out there, they can use anything where the composer has been dead more than 50 years. it doesn't narrow the options down that much.
 
If it's about not having to pay royalties though, there's several centuries of classical music out there, they can use anything where the composer has been dead more than 50 years. it doesn't narrow the options down that much.
Maybe Henry VIII REALLY like icecream as well as Jane Seymour?
 
The other thing about 'Greensleeves' is that it's a simple, catchy tune that doesn't use a great range of notes.
The little snatch of tune played by the ice cream vans is just a small part of the tune, on a repeating loop. It doesn't use many notes, which makes it ideal to be played mechanically (I think the older vans had a mechanical system playing bells or something - a bit like a crude pianola). Newer vans may just use a tape loop
 
Ice cream trucks in this region tend to play "pop goes the weasel" or "Hiawatha" , at least in my experience, so it really may be a tradition associated more with Britain/British related culture than with ice cream itself?

Greensleeves is such a sad song that it would put me right off of eating ice cream!
As a side note, the bell tower at the university of Texas (from which Charles Whitman went on a shooting rampage) played Greensleeves, so the song has always made me think of mass murder, as well as lost love :eek:

I want to see that Australian show OWB mentioned. :D
 
If it's about not having to pay royalties though, there's several centuries of classical music out there, they can use anything where the composer has been dead more than 50 years. it doesn't narrow the options down that much.

That's a fair point. To muddy the waters further, the best van that came round our way in the 1970s played what I now know to be the "Happy Wanderer". According to wikipedia, the tune was only written after the second world war, so still well within copyright when I were a lad.

@Mythopoeika's post sets me wondering about the sound generators themselves. Presumably they must have been manufactured by someone, and I presume further that the manufacturers would only sell so many units. It doesn't strike me as farfetched that Acme Ice Cream Chimes Inc. might choose to offer e.g. the Mark 1 (Greensleeves), the Mark 2 (Match of the Day) and the Mark 3 (Happy Wanderer) and leave it at that. Not quite Hobson's Choice, but not much better.
 
We all know, don't we, the fairytale that ice cream vans only play their tune once they've run out of ice cream? That's what mum and dad always told me, so it must be true.

Ice cream vans are very nearly making the trip into Unhappy Valley, already occupied by Disrespected Former Cultural Icons.

Clowns, circus animals, fizzy drinks.....ice cream vans are sliding slowly and surely into the Pit of No You Can't.

Requiring an Out Of House experience to bring back your fix, their fat and sugar-laden chilled cholesterol candies are just one step up from elective dialysis. The drivers are frequently modelled upon the Child Catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, and not in a good way. Evil cars lurk behind them, revved and ready to shatter the cornettos of innocent young hedonists dithering blithely across the roads.

Parental hypocrisy hits a strange sprinkles-coated watershed when the Ice Cream Van comes a'calling.
 
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The thing about those tune is that they all sound familiar. I am wondering if there wasn't some famous instance of an ice cream van on television or film that played Greensleeves and that's what we are remembering.

What did the van in The Day of The Triffids play?
 
I'm almost certain that Duncan Bannatyne was my Mr. Whippy as a child.

What you need to do is sneak onto his property at night, climb up to the bathroom window and keep watch.
 
Ice-cream van chimes: the sound of the British summer
The thin, peculiar jingle of the ice-cream van will play for longer, thanks to the relaxation of government regulations. Will you welcome extended plays of Greensleeves and Waltzing Matilda?

Ice-cream-van--009.jpg

Ice-cream van: 'The distinctive tinniness of the chime is largely regarded with affection.' Photograph: Rob Cousins/Alamy
The low, sweet call of the woodpigeon; the distant sound of leather on willow; the thin, peculiar song of the ice-cream van playing Greensleeves through the warm, child-cluttered streets of a housing estate; of these is the distinctive sound of a British summer made.

And now, at long last, the British summer may bloom louder and longer. For, 31 long years since its seminal work Code of Practice on Noise From Ice Cream Vans Etc was published, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has finally agreed to relax the country's chime regulations.

In a move that has brought jubilation to the ice-cream industry, chimes can play for up to 12 seconds rather than four; and once every two minutes, instead of three. Vans may also now chime while stationary.

It is, says Steve Verrill, a spokesman for the Ice Cream Alliance, which represents 650 different ice-cream companies: "a welcome loosening of the red tape". The regulations, he says, "were quite draconian and outdated" and took little account of the sheer joy spread by the sound of the ice-cream van. "Just this morning, I was speaking to an ice-cream van owner from Scarborough who had initially chosen to forgo a chime on his van," he adds. "But he said he would turn up at events and the children would be so disappointed there was no chime on his van that he had to get one. The chimes are a great feature – it means there's a nice treat coming your way."

The earliest chimes were operated like a music box and fitted with a magnetic pickup and amplifier. It wasn't until 1958 that transistors transformed the van chime, along with amplifiers that could be fitted to the vehicle's battery. Traditional British ice-cream vans have tended to use Grampian Horn loudspeakers, angled downwards, towards the road, to diffuse the sound, and though the technology has improved sound quality, the distinctive tininess of the ice-cream van's call is largely regarded with affection.

Most of the country's 5,000 ice-cream van chimes are made by MicroMiniatures in Staffordshire, which for 25 years has offered the most technologically advanced chimes (most are now digital) and an extensive range of tunes, from Jerusalem to The Stripper, via Nessun Dorma, Cherry Ripe and Waltzing Matilda.

"Our most popular chimes are O Sole Mio, Greensleeves and Match of the Day," says the company's Rich Lister. "We also provide a service to have custom chimes, so if the customer wants a particular song or their own jingle we can put this on to a chime. Most recently, we have produced Soul Limbo (the Test Match Cricket theme) and Amarillo of Tony Christie & Peter Kay fame."

John Bonar of Piccadilly Whip took over the family ice-cream van business from his uncles. Today the firm operates at 15 licensed pitches around London, including the Tower of London and Westminster Bridge, selling fresh-mix softee ice-cream with "sauces, nuts, the sprinkles, waffle cones … all of that". He is, he says, delighted by the relaxation of chime regulations. "If you can only play it for four seconds people down the street won't hear it," he explains.

His vans are all Whitby Morrison built, some modern, some classic, but all play the Pied Piper tune. "We've just always used the Pied Piper since the start, so all the vans we order come with that tune," he explains. And does he ever tire of hearing it? "Ohhh," he laughs, "you get pretty sick of it. But whatever tune you'd have you'd get pretty tired of it."

Posted by
Laura Barton
Friday 12 July 2013 16.05 BST The Guardian
 
That's the one...... our local icecream van plays "just one cornetto" (o sole mio)
 
Hello folks! Anyone recognise the van tune in Bill Forsyth's Comfort and Joy? Cheerio folks!
 
That's a fair point. To muddy the waters further, the best van that came round our way in the 1970s played what I now know to be the "Happy Wanderer". According to wikipedia, the tune was only written after the second world war, so still well within copyright when I were a lad.

Now that I think about it, I've variously heard local ones over the years playing the James Bond theme, Match of the Day theme, and possibly the Halloween theme though I still wonder if I dreamed the last one.

So they don't seem to be too fussed about copyright busting.
 
Now that I think about it, I've variously heard local ones over the years playing the James Bond theme, Match of the Day theme, and possibly the Halloween theme though I still wonder if I dreamed the last one.

So they don't seem to be too fussed about copyright busting.
Maybe that doesn't apply to short clips?
 
Round my way, I've heard one ice cream van that for a long time played a short burst of distorted, overly-loud, seemingly random and discordant notes. Not a tune at all.
I came to the conclusion that it was an old-fashioned mechanical chime system that was broken and they didn't care very much about it.
 
Round my way, I've heard one ice cream van that for a long time played a short burst of distorted, overly-loud, seemingly random and discordant notes. Not a tune at all.
I came to the conclusion that it was an old-fashioned mechanical chime system that was broken and they didn't care very much about it.

Are you sure it wasn't a Politician? In addition to the above description, provides sugar-coated cold comfort, not really true sustainance, never there in bad weather, takes in quite a lot of money for what's fundamentally a simple product, sticks to it's own patch but only stays in one place for a very short time...
 
Thanks for the video, OWB. I love surrealistic tv shows for kids!

Technically off topic, because neither of these clips uses Greensleeves, but may be of interest re: the ice cream van in popular culture. The music in both is used for a specific effect (both nostalgia and mystery in the first and irony in the second)

Clip from The Adventures of Pete and Pete - what we did on our summer vacation
Which is my favorite episode of my favorite tv show, ever. I'd recommend looking up the whole episode for anyone who does like surrealistic tv shows for kids.

Clip from the film After Hours, in which Griffin Dunne witnesses a shooting while being pursued by an ice cream van containing an angry mob bent on vigilante justice

Funny, I just noticed a common thread of surrealism between all three videos. Maybe there is a link between ice cream vans and surrealism, as well as Greensleeves!
 
Hmmm, song choice must be a national/regional thing,
around here they play a blaring off key rendition of "turkey in the straw".
 
Hmmm, song choice must be a national/regional thing,
around here they play a blaring off key rendition of "turkey in the straw".

Yes - choice of typical music varies with geography. Greensleeves is most common in the UK. Turkey in the Straw is probably the most common classic melody used in the US.
 
From Wikipedia.....

"A distinctive feature of ice cream vans is their melodic chimes, and often these take the form of a famous and recognizable tune, usually in the USA"The Mister Softee Jingle", "Turkey in the Straw", "Do Your Ears Hang Low?, "Pop Goes The Weasel" "The Entertainer",[1] "Music Box Dancer", "Home on the Range", "It's a Small World", "Super Mario Bros. theme" or "Camptown Races"; or, in Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom, "Greensleeves", "Whistle While You Work" in Crewe and Nantwich, "You Are My Sunshine" in Vale Royal, "Teddy Bears' Picnic" in Sheffield, and "Match of the Day" in other places. In some places in the US, ice cream trucks play the song "Ice Cream" by Andre Nickatina (essentially just Turkey in the Straw with bass)."
 
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