What Links The Betty & Barney Hill And Travis Walton Cases?

WeirdExeter

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
225
Reaction score
665
Points
99
Answer: brightly illuminated towers at night. See here:

https://threedollarkit.weebly.com/

Excellent research into the two cases that, in my opinion, has nailed them both. Having read ‘Encounters at Indian Head’ I already knew of the tower and cafe explanation for what Barney took to be the UFO (and more) but this is the first time I have read of fire towers that illuminate at night in US forests and how there was one in the vicinity of the Walton abduction (and would also have provided him shelter for his missing days and nights).

Not expecting everyone to agree(!) but it adds up for me.
 

stu neville

Commissioner.
Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2002
Messages
12,829
Reaction score
7,277
Points
314
The trajectory of the Walton case has taken on a bit of a downward turn of late, having previously been if not Exhibit A then certainly Exhibit B or C, but recently there have been allegations of fakery, that witnesses weren't there, etc, complete with the inevitable counter accusations. Being a keen observer of "celebrated case entropy" (which I've started calling it) I'm following this closely.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
The trajectory of the Walton case has taken on a bit of a downward turn of late...
With the earliest evidence in any investigation tending to be critical, I wondered if there might be something relating to the incident on YouTube...

LO!

Doesn't get any earlier than this. I didn't know the case well enough to judge whether the story has changed since its inception. However, I thought the following might be of interest to those who do have a greater appreciation.

Travis Walton gives his first interview on 11.11.1975...


@https://youtu.be/eXzJ3yw25YY
 

WeirdExeter

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
225
Reaction score
665
Points
99
With the earliest evidence in any investigation tending to be critical, I wondered if there might be something relating to the incident on YouTube...

LO!

Doesn't get any earlier than this. I didn't know the case well enough to judge whether the story has changed since its inception. However, I thought the following might be of interest to those who do have a greater appreciation.

Travis Walton gives his first interview on 11.11.1975...


@https://youtu.be/eXzJ3yw25YY
Thanks for that, fascinating listen.

It's intriguing, although his description of the non-human aliens is very 1970s, especially their clothing. Also, they have spacecraft that can defy the laws of physics and cross the vast expanses of space but can't either restrain or sedate their human subject to prevent him lashing out physically....? Then he gets to wander around their craft...? It feels a bit Buck Rogers/70s sci-fi.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
Thanks for that, fascinating listen.

It's intriguing, although his description of the non-human aliens is very 1970s, especially their clothing. ...It feels a bit Buck Rogers/70s sci-fi.
Likewise, I found that interview absorbing and also a tad spooky!

A speculative discovery, completely new to myself also and It's not often you hear something like this - such an early snapshot - in what seemed almost like, 'real time'.

Yes, the description of our arguably archetypal 'flying saucer' spaceship and then the space-suited occupants (why did only the first one encountered need to wear a helmet?) are somewhat zeitgeist!

Accepting all manner of issues re the story's authenticity, where it distinctly differs from the Hill's case is of course no requirement for hypnosis.

On which point, if of interest there are audios of their 'regression' sessions on YouTube.

Personally, I can't see the point of listening to them, as they add nothing of evidential consequence.

However, it certainly touches on the question of whether that is the origin of our 'greys' portrayal. Coincidentally, I was only thinking recently of correspondence I had on this subject some years ago with researcher and author Martin Kottmeyer.

If I recall correctly, we both unearthed conceivable, preceding examples and Martin send myself a CD with related images.

I still endeavour to locate same and have a look. We're talking circa 20 years ago and I suspect that's why they were on a CD - not sure you could easily email large graphic files back then. :)
 

WeirdExeter

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
225
Reaction score
665
Points
99
Seems Travis plagiarised the sci-fi of Robert A. Heinlein for his account of what happened to him during his five day absence, although he can actually only provide a narrative for a two-hour period:

https://threedollarkit.weebly.com/tw-heinlein-heist.html

...a step-by-step comparison of Walton's claims and how they are 'inspired' by Heinlein.

It says an awful lot about 1970s/80s ufology that the initial analysis of a hoax by researchers from within the community was subsequently brushed aside and the incident became a bedrock of the ETH belief system.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
Seems Travis plagiarised the sci-fi of Robert A. Heinlein...
Thanks for highlighting that - obviously of some interest.

Isn't there also a link between both cases in that Travis Walton was allegedly fascinated by UFOs and just a couple of weeks prior to the incident, had statedly watched a TV film, or documentary, about the Hill case?

Switching to our companion narrative, I mentioned there were audios of the hypnosis sessions available on YouTube, however, were they of any evidential value.

I decided it was perhaps rash to judge, without at least a cursory listen and glad I did.

So far, I've only heard what seems to be Betty Hill's first 'regressed recollection' and something of a revelation to myself.

This is not the same story I read about, albeit many years ago.

Betty's gripping tale does not feature a single, 'grey' type entity at all. Instead, we seemingly have kidnappers who are comparatively human. the 'leader' and 'doctor' speak perfectly understandable English - the 'leader' having a 'foreign' accent - and Betty even shares moments of laughter with both.

The 'star map' is not some complex display, it's a chart which Betty only sees briefly, statedly does not indicate where Earth is on it and the 'leader' rolls the map up again, before putting it back!

I take it from this, that what happens next are one or more further sessions, where additional details emerge?

Have to love how the star chart reportedly has thick lines showing, 'trade routes' and dotted-lines indicating places they sometimes explore.

Makes you wonder if the spacecraft had a glass dome on top, something along the lines of a 'crow's nest' lookout vantage point.

Trust that wasn't the only copy as well and they had a backup on computer, although like 1961 planet Earth, there seems to be a notable absence of them on our spaceship!

Betty Hill Hypnosis 01


@https://youtu.be/0aDdYI0HfPo
 

charliebrown

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
1,305
Reaction score
1,790
Points
153
Location
Earth
I not sure if these two cases can be linked.

I don’t know if Travis is telling the truth or not.

But Betty and Barney were very upstanding people.

Barney was a postal worker, and Betty was a social worker.

Both were big civil rights workers.

I believe Betty and Barney told the truth completely, why would they lie ?
 

Cloudbusting

I still dream of Orgonon
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Messages
326
Reaction score
964
Points
99
... the 'leader' rolls the map up again, before putting it back!

...Have to love how the star chart reportedly has thick lines showing, 'trade routes' and dotted-lines indicating places they sometimes explore.

Sounds very advanced doesn't it. :hahazebs:
 

charliebrown

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
1,305
Reaction score
1,790
Points
153
Location
Earth
So the aliens did not have an account with Amazon to buy a digital map reader.

Betty and Barney’s aliens could be us from the future.

These aliens could be very human !
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
Betty Hill Hypnosis 01
In the session denoted "02", there is a fundamental new element introduced - Betty's dreams.

It's now revealed that much of what she recalls was literally the stuff of nightmares.

Asked to distinguish between what she is actually remembering from her dreams, as opposed to what is separately being recalled under hypnosis, Betty indicates their is a central core of similarly, however, under 'regression', more details seem to emerge.

Although still no 'greys', Betty states that in one of her dreams, when within the spacecraft, the entities might have looked shorter. In another dream, when the 'strangers' were first encountered on the road, they looked more, 'grotesque'. However, this might not be part of a dream and a separate memory now emerging. It all sounds entirely unclear.

The general perception of this pivotal case, is the subject of one online article which offers this appraisal:

How Betty and Barney Hill's Alien Abduction Story Defined the Genre

"In coming years, with Betty suffering from disturbing dreams and Barney developing an ulcer and anxiety, the couple sought mental help. The two met with Benjamin Simon, a psychiatrist and neurologist who specialized in hypnosis, a mainstream technique at the time.

Through months of weekly sessions, Simon helped the couple piece together what they think had happened: A vessel had landed on the Hill’s car, putting them to sleep. Afterward, gray beings walked them up a long ramp and into the spacecraft.

(.. )

In 1965, the Hills' story was picked up by a Boston newspaper. After that, everything changed. The quiet couple’s story became the subject of a best-selling book and a movie starring James Earl Jones. The upstanding civil servants had become celebrity abductees.

The Hills weren’t the first to spot a UFO or even to report an abduction. But their story did capture the nation’s imagination and was so widely publicized, it has helped shape how we talk about alien encounters and abductions to this day.

Before the Hill’s story, alien encounters were friendly, according to Christoper Bader, a professor of sociology at California’s Chapman University. Some aliens even lived on earth and commuted back on weekends. But once the Hills’ story became better known, abduction accounts shared certain characteristics, such as medical examinations and missing time. Aliens with large heads and big eyes—dubbed “grays” in UFO circles—became classic sci-fi staples in personal accounts and pop culture, Close Encounters of the Third Kind and shows like the X-Files".
(End)

https://www.history.com/.amp/news/first-alien-abduction-account-barney-betty-hill

"...gray beings walked them up a long ramp and into the spacecraft".

That's not what we hear recounted in these two either early, or actually the first two, sessions from Betty Hill's hypnosis.

Nothing even remotely like it at all..

Betty Hill Hypnosis 02


@https://youtu.be/c6R6ygvjxIg
 

stu neville

Commissioner.
Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2002
Messages
12,829
Reaction score
7,277
Points
314
But Betty and Barney were very upstanding people.....I believe Betty and Barney told the truth completely, why would they lie ?
Few people doubt their sincerity. What's up for discussion is their perception of the experience: the human psychological compulsion to create a narrative can seriously distort empirical 'fact'. This doesn't just affect Fortean episodes, but mundane ones too - ask any cop, the same crime will have as many different versions (albeit subtly) as there are witnesses.

Please note I'm not trying to explain this away, but these elements have to be incorporated into any comprehensive discussion. To casually dismiss the possibility of the mundane is as unethical as casually dismissing the possibility of the genuinely phenomenal.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
I believe Betty and Barney told the truth completely, why would they lie ?
There is not the merest indication of 'misdirection'.

The one thing which personally made an impression on hearing Betty Hill's recording, is her apperent sincerity - she comes across as so genuinely, 'trying her best' to help make some sense of it all!

The elemental problem here is that not only are the hypnosis sessions long afterwards, Betty's 'regressed memories' of events are interwoven with statedly vivid dreams and in essence, it's much more of a 'regression' about her dreams.

I'm slowly going through the entire, initial transcripts of both Betty and Barney's hypnosis sessions and still awaiting the moment when our archetypal 'greys' can clearly be identified.

My understanding, although as noted from many years ago, of this seminal abduction case was that both were 'hypnotically regressed' and described entities which looked like the ensuing, stereotyped 'greys'.

It will certainly be interesting to identify, if possible, when that transformation occurred. i.e. at what precise point did our purportedly 'humanoid', English speaking and joking 'strangers' become something quite different as came to be perceived.

Any suggestions would be most welcome.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
It will certainly be interesting to identify, if possible, when that transformation occurred. i.e. at what precise point did our purportedly 'humanoid', English speaking and joking 'strangers' become something quite different as came to be perceived.
Having listened once more to each of these Barney Hill early hypnosis sessions, the genesis of our 'greys' might have become much clearer.

Barney Hill Hypnosis 01


@https://youtu.be/rvaC_aQQ7YA


Barney Hill Hypnosis 02


@https://youtu.be/57aDhEvyygg


In essence, originally Barney only once refers to an 'entity' with seemingly slanted eyes.

That is, under 'regression'', a single, initial observation of an otherwise human-like being, observed by Barney watching from a window in the spaceship.

This is witnessed by Barney from distance, whilst standing outside his car and using binoculars.

However, in a separate recollection of the exact same moment, there's no mention of slanted eyes and instead how this entity, seemingly the 'leader', had an 'air of authority' and was wearing a 'military-style' black jacket.

The first observation reminds Barney of a Nazi and the being is also wearing what looks to be a black scarf.

There is no comparative description of any slant-eyed entity from within the craft, as Barney kept his eyes shut during this period.

Consequently, there is never any depiction of our archetypal 'grey' by Betty Hill and indeed quite the contrary.

It all seemingly rests solely on that one, distant, observation of an entity standing behind a window, as viewed through binoculars.

Elemental to developments are two resulting and later sketches made by Barney Hill, apparently whilst under hypnosis:

88764aafd80eb92b90a173b0804a957b_compress6.jpg


This characterisation of extraterrestrials responsible for alien abductions would seem to have evolved into such as portrayed in Whitley Strieber's, perhaps correspondingly, significantly influential, best-selling 1987 book, 'Communion':

1070498~2.jpg


That, in turn, has now become:

images (1).jpg


Would this, overall, be a reasonable, evidential conclusion?
 

WeirdExeter

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
225
Reaction score
665
Points
99
I not sure if these two cases can be linked.

I don’t know if Travis is telling the truth or not.

But Betty and Barney were very upstanding people.

Barney was a postal worker, and Betty was a social worker.

Both were big civil rights workers.

I believe Betty and Barney told the truth completely, why would they lie ?

This blog explains it:

https://threedollarkit.weebly.com

As does the excellent book 'Encounters at Indian Head that resists the site of the encounter. Essentially they are could very well be honest people who became confused by three different lights in the night sky whilst travelling on a dark, rural road. First light was the planet Jupiter, second was the mast and third was the cafe lights at the top of the mountain. All three lights match the description of what the Hills saw, and if there were people in window of the cafe that night (quite feasible) then also the 'humanoids' that they saw.

However, what is evident is that a) their initial story and description of the 'aliens' is very different to the one that we have all read about, in particular their features were originally far more human and were human clothing, and b) hypnotic regressions been proven to be flawed.

Also it has to be said that Betty Hill went onto make some impossible to substantiate claims about further UFO sightings etc later on her life that certainly bring her integrity into doubt.
 

WeirdExeter

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
225
Reaction score
665
Points
99
Having listened once more to each of these Barney Hill early hypnosis sessions, the genesis of our 'greys' might have become much clearer.

Barney Hill Hypnosis 01


@https://youtu.be/rvaC_aQQ7YA


Barney Hill Hypnosis 02


@https://youtu.be/57aDhEvyygg


In essence, originally Barney only once refers to an 'entity' with seemingly slanted eyes.

That is, under 'regression'', a single, initial observation of an otherwise human-like being, observed by Barney watching from a window in the spaceship.

This is witnessed by Barney from distance, whilst standing outside his car and using binoculars.

However, in a separate recollection of the exact same moment, there's no mention of slanted eyes and instead how this entity, seemingly the 'leader', had an 'air of authority' and was wearing a 'military-style' black jacket.

The first observation reminds Barney of a Nazi and the being is also wearing what looks to be a black scarf.

There is no comparative description of any slant-eyed entity from within the craft, as Barney kept his eyes shut during this period.

Consequently, there is never any depiction of our archetypal 'grey' by Betty Hill and indeed quite the contrary.

It all seemingly rests solely on that one, distant, observation of an entity standing behind a window, as viewed through binoculars.

Elemental to developments are two resulting and later sketches made by Barney Hill, apparently whilst under hypnosis:

View attachment 42391

This characterisation of extraterrestrials responsible for alien abductions would seem to have evolved into such as portrayed in Whitley Strieber's, perhaps correspondingly, significantly influential, best-selling 1987 book, 'Communion':

View attachment 42389

That, in turn, has now become:

View attachment 42390

Would this, overall, be a reasonable, evidential conclusion?

The theory is that Barney was looking up at the cafe on the mountain illuminated against the night sky. The dimensions and appearance of the cafe match that of his 'ufo'. Furthermore, it's entirely possible that some bikers were in the cafe late at night, perhaps the caretaker and his mates? Well, more feasible than aliens in a spacecraft.. So Barney is looking at a guy in biker gear (hence the peaked cap) looking out from the cafe windows whilst his mates are busing themselves behind him doing whatever.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
Well, more feasible than aliens in a spacecraft.. So Barney is looking at a guy in biker gear (hence the peaked cap) looking out from the cafe windows whilst his mates are busing themselves behind him doing whatever.
How very interesting this is...

At one point in the early hypnosis sessions, Barney relates how those 'strangers' in the road ahead are wearing, "shiny black jackets".

As you note, the peaked cap could equate as dare I suggest, might the. black 'neck scarf' - perhaps a bandana?

You now have myself wondering, was that individual also...

...if you Google, 'bikers sunglasses 1960s'...

Screenshot_20210722-155440.jpg
 

charliebrown

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
1,305
Reaction score
1,790
Points
153
Location
Earth
First of all Barney dying at age 46 from a brain bleed seems strange.

Did Barney have an alien implant put into his brain ?

To get a person to believe in UFOs is hard, and to get a person to believe in alien abduction is almost impossible.

Having been there myself, I am sure Betty and Barney had a real experience.

I personally don’t believe alien humanoids are from outer space, but just like Skinwalker Ranch, or the Kelly-Hopkinsville Kentucky Goblins Case, we are dealing with dimension portals.
 
Last edited:

stu neville

Commissioner.
Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2002
Messages
12,829
Reaction score
7,277
Points
314
First of all Barney dying at age 46 from a brain bleed seems strange
Not really. My wife's best friend died of an aneurysm at the age of 38. Completely out of the blue, fit and healthy, just a weak blood vessel in her brain.
Did Barney have an alien implant put into his brain ?
Or did Barney also have a weak blood vessel?
 

Naughty_Felid

kneesy earsy nosey
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
9,003
Reaction score
12,536
Points
299
The trajectory of the Walton case has taken on a bit of a downward turn of late, having previously been if not Exhibit A then certainly Exhibit B or C, but recently there have been allegations of fakery, that witnesses weren't there, etc, complete with the inevitable counter accusations. Being a keen observer of "celebrated case entropy" (which I've started calling it) I'm following this closely.

Yes, I heard that being mentioned on a couple of podcasts recently.
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
I wondered if this might be of historical interest.

UFO Abductee Barney Hill - "To Tell the Truth"


@https://youtu.be/YhZ24yUpXSM
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,297
Reaction score
13,322
Points
284
Location
Phone
I personally don’t believe alien humanoids are from outer space, but just like Skinwalker Ranch, or the Kelly-Hopkinsville Kentucky Goblins Case, we are dealing with dimension portals.
I take it, that like myself, you are continuously experiencing a paradigm shift, every time there's a new development posted on the 'quantum physics' thread. :)

Momentary digression; you have picked out a challenging case there. Not that long ago, I had a look at it as originally reported and if of interest, there's a link to that newspaper publication here - as UFO cases go, it's madness personified!:

Post in thread 'Kelly / Hopkinsville (Kentucky) 'Goblins' Incident (1955)' https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...ucky-goblins-incident-1955.17926/post-1988916
 

WeirdExeter

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
225
Reaction score
665
Points
99
First of all Barney dying at age 46 from a brain bleed seems strange.

Did Barney have an alien implant put into his brain ?

To get a person to believe in UFOs is hard, and to get a person to believe in alien abduction is almost impossible.

Having been there myself, I am sure Betty and Barney had a real experience.

I personally don’t believe alien humanoids are from outer space, but just like Skinwalker Ranch, or the Kelly-Hopkinsville Kentucky Goblins Case, we are dealing with dimension portals.
Charliebrown, I am a 100% believer that there is something paranormal out there that causes people to see and experience things they can't explain: ghosts, poltergeists, strange lights in the sky and in the sea, alien big cats, bigfoot, etc etc...

But many potential paranormal events can be explained with a little research, leaving a hard core of cases that defy a conventional explanation. There were some UFO contactees in the 1950s whose cases are absurd and quite amateurish when viewed through our 21st Century prism (e.g. UFOs reported with big levers and dials on their control panels, good grief even a farm tractor has a touch sensitive control screen nowadays).

There is so much more to the phenomena if you look behind these celebrity cases. I recommend watching "Witness to Another World" if you haven't already seen it, a proper treatment of a UFO and occupant encounter in South America that doesn't get tied up in dodge hypnotic regression or change its narrative so dramatically over time.
 
Top