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What's Is The Universe Resting In?

MrRING

Android Futureman
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
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Just a science question that I doubt any human will ever really know, but here it is: what is the universe resting in? If it's a finite space, shouldn't there be something outside those boundaries to create the space of the universe? And if it's an infinite space, how does that work - does infinity have bounds?

EDIT to add that I feel like I might have asked this question before in a diffeent context, but I'd love to see a well-thought-out discussion of it...
 
As far as I understand this one, if it's a finite space then it wraps back on itself, which is hard to visualise but I guess not dissimilar to the way that if you treat the surface of the earth as two dimensions, then you can keep going in a straight line until you come back to the same place, except in 3 dimensions.

If it's infinite, then I don't grasp that so well, but I'm sure I've read theories that suggest that the 'edge' is almost demand driven by the expansion of the universe itself, so it can never actually run out of space to expand into however big it gets. Certain topologies might allow the universe to be finite in one direction and infinite in another, eg like a cylinder where travelling through one sides brings you back through the other, but it goes on indefinitely lenghways.

That's about as much as I understand.
 
OK...

you know i'm not sure...

I remember being told that it was a sphere existing in nothingness but that dosn't sound as good as BRF's answer :)

I also heard that it's not actualy infinate as such but that it expands quicker that it would ever be posible to travle so therefore you can never reach the end. Again I'm not sure of that, it was just told to me one night in the pub :)
 
If this came up in a conversation in the pub I'd say "Quantuum foam" in a convincing manner and we'd mvoe on to the next subject of debate. So.....

Quantuum foam.
 
Emperor said:
If this came up in a conversation in the pub I'd say "Quantuum foam" in a convincing manner and we'd mvoe on to the next subject of debate. So.....

Quantuum foam.

A red wine please, a large one.
 
I suppose if the universe (or the multiverse of parallel universes) is everything there is, it isn't resting in anything as there isn't anything outside it because it doesn't have an outside.

That might make sense after a strong drink or three.
 
Timble said:
I suppose if the universe (or the multiverse of parallel universes) is everything there is, it isn't resting in anything as there isn't anything outside it because it doesn't have an outside.

Okay, if the universe is all there is, would the edges of the universe have to exist in space at least equal to the size of the universe?

Like, if the universe was the size of a basketball, wouldn't there have to exist a space large enough to put the basketball in order for it to occupy that space? I can put the basketball in the cupboard, or in a plastic case, or lay it on the lawn, because there is space for it to exist in... but I can't put the ball in no space at all, or nothing, because the basketball couldn't exist there.

My lousy logic is sure to have physicists spinning in their grave, but I can't fanthom that the universe is all there is without being in something, of some kind.
 
I constantly think that because we are limited by human perception, we can't grasp what's out there.

I like to think that we live in a steady state universe that is, always has been and always will be. Why does there have to a border? Maybe it's just really, really, really big (like, neverending).
 
Beyond the edge of the Universe there lies nothing.. zilch. You may as well as what's north of the North Pole. It is truly -nothing-. This is what my equations indicate, and they're usually accurate.
 
Mr Snowman Said
Beyond the edge of the Universe there lies nothing.. zilch. You may as well as what's north of the North Pole. It is truly -nothing-.

I must agree with Mr Snowman on this one.

I believe The unviverse is almost certainly closed. I try to think of it this way:
We live on an inflating sphere of an onion like structure with a new layer of the onion set down every qantuum of time. When we look at alpha centauri, we are looking into the sphere to see what the light was like when it left alpha centrauti 4 years ago, so you can think of what you are seeing as being 4 years deep and 4 light years away on the surface.

Now, when you look at the light from distant pulsars say 8 billion light years, you are looking 8 billion years deep but now much more than 8 billion light years distant as the sphere that this galaxy was on has
expanded up. Hence the universe may be 13 billion years old, but the most distant object to us is much more than 13 billion light years away. Hence we can never go there.

The alternative is that the universe is truly infinite and that we can only see for 13 billion light years and that this is our sphere of influence. Anything outside of that can never reach us nor be reached by us. This then indicated that we have a near steady state universe that never expands, only our sphere expands at the speed of light. This is the idea of many bubble like universes all occupying the same infinite space.
Then there is the concept of one universe per brane or one universe per quantuum event over all time since the begining of time. Or the idea of one univers per quantuum event for infinite time and that time itself is an illution casued by the sequnece of going from one univers to the next sequentially.

All the above are real scientific suggestions for the nature of the multi-verse. You raise a very valid question Mr R.I.N.G. but I'm afraid that science can't give you a handwaving answer never mind a straight answer, just a hunch.
 
Mr Snowman said:
Beyond the edge of the Universe there lies nothing.. zilch.

What does nothing look like?
 
Heckler said:
Bannik said:
What does nothing look like?

Try watching any Soap Opera Omnibus and you'll understand.

That's what engulfs the Universe? Frightening thought. :eek!!!!:
 
Bannik said:
Heckler said:
Bannik said:
What does nothing look like?

Try watching any Soap Opera Omnibus and you'll understand.

That's what engulfs the Universe? Frightening thought. :eek!!!!:

Somewhere out in the void Den bears the universe on his wide shoulders whilst Ang sings 'Anyone could fall in Love' to the tune of Eastenders played on the galactic piano by Simon Wicks.
 
A very very large .wrl file

I've been learning VRML you see... 8)
 
I just figured that as space is an integral part of the Universe, it doesn't need to be resting in anything at all. There is no 'outside' if space is curved.
 
The Virgin Queen said:
I also heard that it's not actualy infinite as such but that it expands quicker that it would ever be possible to travel so therefore you can never reach the end. Again I'm not sure of that, it was just told to me one night in the pub :)

Your pub confidante probably gave the best answer so far;
the universe is expanding so fast, that the galaxies we can see at the edge have accelerated away from us since the light left them. Those galaxies are now so far away that they are expanding away from us faster than the speed of light - that means we can never get to them in a spaceship without going faster than light ourselves.

In this way, the universe us effectively infinite in size- as you try to get to the edge it expands away from you.

It doesn't matter what is outside the expansion- we can never get there to observe it.
 
Surely just because we assume that 'something' must have boundaries, we only assume that the Universe has?

There are things on a cosmic/universal scale that we can't concieve of easily, and I think that the Universe being all there is without limits may be one of them.

It's true that we will never (probably) ever get to the furthest reaches (which implies there's and end to reach - which I don't believe), so the debate is academic.

But isn't it possible that we don't exist in a contained universe and that there doesn't have to be an 'outside'?

QS
 
My It teacher once got us to think about this. His theory was that we were sitting at our desks in school and us and the universe was inside an atom of a person sitting at a desk in school who was inside an atom of a person sitting at a desk etc etc.

I loved my IT teacher. :D
 
Eburacum45 said:
In this way, the universe us effectively infinite in size- as you try to get to the edge it expands away from you.

It doesn't matter what is outside the expansion- we can never get there to observe it.

I have. I've done it while dreaming!

O.K., I really haven't, I just made that up. :p
 
In this way, the universe us effectively infinite in size- as you try to get to the edge it expands away from you.

It doesn't matter what is outside the expansion- we can never get there to observe it.


This subject makes my brain hurt! Would it be 'theoretically' possible to bend space/time to jump the distance needed?
If it is expanding at an infinate speed and rate then it would surely need an 'outside' infinate space to expand into? I find it hard to conceive (not surprisingly) a infinate space of nothing-ness. :?
 
Eburacum45 said:
In this way, the universe us effectively infinite in size- as you try to get to the edge it expands away from you.

It doesn't matter what is outside the expansion- we can never get there to observe it.

It's ultimately unknowable, but that's also fascinating to think of the universe as being so big that all we have is a guess as to the big picture...
 
It's ultimately unknowable, but that's also fascinating to think of the universe as being so big that all we have is a guess as to the big picture...

It certainly makes me feel very small and insignificant!
 
Siesta time

Don't know about the Universe, but I usually rest in the afternoons...
 
My own 2p...

Asking what the universe rests in is like asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. We have no idea how to express what the universe rests in as we have no experience of a place where time and space do not exist, it's something we can't really imagine.

A problem here is that a lot of people see the big-bang as an explosion at one point in a three-dimensional space. This isn't true; the big-bang occured at every point in our space at the same time, but the space itself expanded, diluting the energy of the universe (in laymans terms), but what the universe rests in can only ever be a philosophical construct, never to be confirmed by experiment.
 
Hey, more to the point -what happens when it stops resting? Get up you lazy b*****d!

Or if it's a child iuniverse, just yell 'Wake up Jeff!'

:D
 
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